Autocrossing Wheels

[M0nk3y]

I'm starting to invest into some autocrossing wheels.

They need to be cheap; and preferably new. Any suggestions?

Should I be really concerned about the weight of a wheel?

The tire is going to be Hankook R-S3s; I'm only going to be mounting them for autocrossing events.

I was just thinking about getting some CSL Reps.

Opinions?

[mimalmo]

Apex ARC8


http://store.vacmotorsports.com/apex-wheels-c366.aspx

[M0nk3y]

I need a ET 30 for the rear and ET 42 front. None of those which work :(

[mimalmo]

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=473674


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b388/paintpro21/z4msquare.jpg

[danewilson77]

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=473674


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b388/paintpro21/z4msquare.jpg

O-M-G

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[M0nk3y]

I need to run 225s in the front and 255s in the rear to retain my class

I also can't change my camber settings like those are in the front.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Brandon, over at BMWMafia.com, says that Kosei K1s are the way to go.

http://www.bmwmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?577-Autocrossing-Wheels

[danewilson77]

Offset may not be right though...idk...

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[M0nk3y]

I'm pretty sure I can get away with ET 35s up front and ET 20-25 in the rear.

I need 18's though to clear the brakes

[mimalmo]

I need a ET 30 for the rear and ET 42 front. None of those which work :(

Then I would do the 18x8.5 ET40 front with your 225 tire and 18x9.5 ET22 rear with your 255 tire.

OR: 17x8.5 ET40 front and 17x9 ET42 rear with a spacer

[spencers]

What class you shooting for?

[M0nk3y]

Sadly, I have to run AS.

I don't have mods to go into BSP.

I don't have money to invest into purple cracks, and I've never driven this car to the limit yet. So buying purple cracks would be a stupid decision that could end with a side of my car gone by going off-track/course

[spencers]

Stock class FTW.

Reason I asked: I thought wheel width has to remain the same as stock?

[M0nk3y]

Stock class FTW.

Reason I asked: I thought wheel width has to remain the same as stock?

They do.

Stock Specs are as follows:

18x8 ET 42
18x9 ET 30

Of course, it's going to be near impossible to run aftermarket wheels that are that same offset. I figure if I get close enough; it should be fine. Since I'm running street tires, they shouldn't mind about a 5mm difference

[Terry]

I am selling my OZ SuperLeggeras (LIGHT and strong) which are 18x8 and 18x9. I think offset for the front is 42 and rear is 40. Nothing wrong with a 10mm wheel spacer :)

-Terry

[murph]

yep, wheel spacer will keep you legal, and you can be +/- 6.5mm from stock offset. (1/4")

[az3579]

Sadly, I have to run AS.

I don't have mods to go into BSP.

I don't have money to invest into purple cracks, and I've never driven this car to the limit yet. So buying purple cracks would be a stupid decision that could end with a side of my car gone by going off-track/course

What are purple cracks?



Of course, it's going to be near impossible to run aftermarket wheels that are that same offset. I figure if I get close enough; it should be fine. Since I'm running street tires, they shouldn't mind about a 5mm difference

Stick to the rules. If a 5mm difference technically isn't allowed, in fairness to other competitors, please don't.

[M0nk3y]

I am selling my OZ SuperLeggeras (LIGHT and strong) which are 18x8 and 18x9. I think offset for the front is 42 and rear is 40. Nothing wrong with a 10mm wheel spacer :)

-Terry

I assume they won't be my type of cheap (aka sub $500). Thanks though for the offer. I don't want to low-ball you


yep, wheel spacer will keep you legal, and you can be +/- 6.5mm from stock offset. (1/4")


What are purple cracks?



Stick to the rules. If a 5mm difference technically isn't allowed, in fairness to other competitors, please don't.

Hoosiers - aka R-Comps. They are called purple cracks because once you start running them it's an addiction.

And I'll run spacers in the back to keep the specs legal

[az3579]

start running them it's an addiction.



:rofl
I didn't get the "purple" part 'till you said Hoosier. Now it all makes sense!

[MasterC17]

Hmm, first to come to mind are Kosei K1's (cheap), APEX ARC-8's, D-Force LTW5, Forgestar F14, SSR maybe. I know the Kosei's and APEX's won't work but maybe check out the others. Hard to get light rims under $500.

[M0nk3y]

The thing is...will 330 HP counteract say...22 lbs wheels?

[jvr826]

You'll be fine. Your stock wheels probably weigh more than 22lbs... our stock ZHP wheels do. Any weight you can drop at the wheel/tire combo is a plus in the performance department, even a few pounds per corner will be noticeable. I say combo because some tires weigh more than other tires of the same size.

[danewilson77]

Stock zhp...style 135 weigh 28lbs...no?

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[jvr826]

Fronts are around 26, rears are a little more, but under 27.

[Terry]

Yeah, I think I would like to get more than $500 for them. Hurting for money right now, but if times were easy I'd sell them to you for $500 and cover shipping myself :)

ARC-8s are on my list actually.

Terry

[murph]

Yep, that purple crack is actually pretty lightweight as well!

Yes, light is good, but you're right, it's not as essential on a 210 hp, 3,300 lb BMW as a 100 hp, 2,000 lb civic or miata.

If you only have $500 to spend, a swaybar will do you more good than another set of wheels. It'll be pretty tough to find a set of wheels (lightweight or otherwise) in a specific size/offset for $500.

[MasterC17]

Fronts are around 26, rears are a little more, but under 27.

I just weighed my rears this morning and they were 28.2lbs each. I still have to weigh the fronts but I'm thinking they're not much lighter (27-28). I just got SSR Comp-H's (18.5lbs each claimed still need to weigh myself) with 245/40/18 Goodyear Eagle F1 A/S and total weight was 41.75lbs (~23.25lbs for tires). My front ZHP wheel + Michelin Pilot Sport 1 (225/35/18) was 49.25lbs. I believe the Pilot Sports are lighter than the Goodyears, I will weigh one 255/35/18 Pilot when I get home. I hope to weigh everything when I have the Pilot Sport's swapped to the SSR's and the Goodyears dismounted.

[M0nk3y]

Yep, that purple crack is actually pretty lightweight as well!

Yes, light is good, but you're right, it's not as essential on a 210 hp, 3,300 lb BMW as a 100 hp, 2,000 lb civic or miata.

If you only have $500 to spend, a swaybar will do you more good than another set of wheels. It'll be pretty tough to find a set of wheels (lightweight or otherwise) in a specific size/offset for $500.

Sway bar (front and rear) is on the order list already

[spencers]

Rear sway will take you out of stock

[bcleaver]

weight matters. Get the lightest wheel you can afford. It's worth saving up rather than buying something over 20lbs IMO.
You have a little leeway in the offset

13.4 WHEELS
Any type wheel may be used provided it complies with the following: it
is the same width and diameter as standard, and as installed (including
wheel spacers if applicable) it does not have an offset more than
+/- 0.25 inch from a standard wheel for the car. The resultant change in
track dimensions is allowed.
Wheel spacers are permitted, provided the resultant combination complies
with the offset requirements of this section. Wheel studs, lug nuts,
and/or bolt length may be changed.
Vehicles equipped with rims having metric specifications may use alternate
rims as determined by using the following procedure:
Diameter: converting the metric measurement to inches and using
the nearest smaller inch diameter rim.
Width: converting the metric measurement to inches and using the
nearest smaller 1/2-inch width rim.

[jvr826]

Interesting, memory is failing me at my rapidly advancing age...

http://www.wheelweights.net/

shows the fronts as 28.5, rears as 29. Holy cow!

I run 18x8.5 Comp-H as my street and autocross wheels too, way lighter. I have the 17" K1s for track, lighter yet.

[Katu]

Just ran across this thread, had a question about our stock 135s and their weight. I've always used http://felgenkatalog.auto-treff.com/ when looking at BMW wheel weight and it has the 135s listed as:

18x8 -> 11.23 kg (24.7 lb)
18x8.5 -> 11.93 kg (26.2 lb)

But it sounds like these numbers might be low?

Also! Anyone have any pics of their ZHP with APEX ARC-8s?

[Terry]

Would be very curious to know stock wheel weights.. I'm always fascinated when it comes to shaving weight. Call me a nerd but I'll plan to get wheel studs and weigh the different ones as well as lug nuts. Don't do much wheel changing so was planning to go with AL ones, ie Gorilla.

I just put my car back down on the ground today. Had been waiting on rubber. This is what she looks like. Pleased with everything about Apex Race Parts and their ARC-8 and especially so with Eddy. 18x9 x 4, 245/35/18 all the way around. Will update in the Californication thread. Just got the car back down on the ground before sundown and snapped a couple of shots. I am terrible with the camera, but this is what I came up with.

Terry

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Looking good, Terry.

[danewilson77]

Would be very curious to know stock wheel weights.. I'm always fascinated when it comes to shaving weight. Call me a nerd but I'll plan to get wheel studs and weigh the different ones as well as lug nuts. Don't do much wheel changing so was planning to go with AL ones, ie Gorilla.

I just put my car back down on the ground today. Had been waiting on rubber. This is what she looks like. Pleased with everything about Apex Race Parts and their ARC-8 and especially so with Eddy. 18x9 x 4, 245/35/18 all the way around. Will update in the Californication thread. Just got the car back down on the ground before sundown and snapped a couple of shots. I am terrible with the camera, but this is what I came up with.

Terry

Stock....is about 25lbs avg front rear. Fronts....24lbs and change....rears are around 26lbs.

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[Terry]

Thanks Marcus. Car feels great with fresh rubber. And now that she sits on wheels I got to pick it makes me feel more proud when I look at her.

-T

[spencers]

Holy jeebus I want some ARC-8's.

Bimmerworld (http://store.bimmerworld.com/d-force-ltw5---3-series-e364690-p894.aspx) FINALLY has 17x8" ET40 wheels.
15.7 lbs sounds fine to me!

[Katu]

Would be very curious to know stock wheel weights.. I'm always fascinated when it comes to shaving weight. Call me a nerd but I'll plan to get wheel studs and weigh the different ones as well as lug nuts. Don't do much wheel changing so was planning to go with AL ones, ie Gorilla.

I just put my car back down on the ground today. Had been waiting on rubber. This is what she looks like. Pleased with everything about Apex Race Parts and their ARC-8 and especially so with Eddy. 18x9 x 4, 245/35/18 all the way around. Will update in the Californication thread. Just got the car back down on the ground before sundown and snapped a couple of shots. I am terrible with the camera, but this is what I came up with.

Terry

Those look awesome. Is that the Antracite color? I'm really torn between going with 17x9 and 18x9, I think 18's will probably look better but 17's are a bit lighter. Do you have any rubbing issues with the 245s? Did they just bolt right up, no spacers, etc? Did you consider going with 255s?

[murph]

If you don't need 265mm tires, stick with the 17x9's. Tires are cheaper and they'll ride more comfortably. I've noticed a bigger difference in ride harshness moving from 17 to 18 than from going from stock springs to 550/650 coilovers.

[Katu]

If you don't need 265mm tires, stick with the 17x9's. Tires are cheaper and they'll ride more comfortably. I've noticed a bigger difference in ride harshness moving from 17 to 18 than from going from stock springs to 550/650 coilovers.

Good to know. I am looking to run 245s or 255s (hopefully with no rubbing!)

[murph]

255s work on stock suspension without any rubbing, you should be fine there.

[Katu]

255s work on stock suspension without any rubbing, you should be fine there.

Good to know. Looks like 255/40/17 will be ideal. Now I just need about $2000 for some APEX ARC-8s and tires. o_O

[bcleaver]

If you don't need 265mm tires, stick with the 17x9's. Tires are cheaper and they'll ride more comfortably. I've noticed a bigger difference in ride harshness moving from 17 to 18 than from going from stock springs to 550/650 coilovers.

You can also run a 265 on 17x9 you just have fewer options. Dunlop makes the star spec in that size and it can be a competitive street tire depending on the conditions.

[bcleaver]

Also! Anyone have any pics of their ZHP with APEX ARC-8s?

Here are mine: Apex arc 8's 17x9 et 42 265/40/17
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Q8uh4kVD6oI/TcymlXsGvLI/AAAAAAAABoA/z00qAE2A_28/s800/IMG_3182.jpg

[Terry]

OOps, didn't know there were more responses. Damn my AOL spam box.

Katu - Yes, they are Anthracite and 18x9. I went with 245/35/18. 245s = more clearance, but I'm sure the ride quality might be a bit more harsh. Have had no rubbing even with four passengers following dinner. I think the performance might be better with the 245 too being that the tire is properly stretched to the wheel (think less under-tensioned rubber to roll over during corner...which would require more camber). 245s may also be up to a pound lighter per tire. I know that's not much when you're dealing with all this horsepower and torque, but anything for peace of mind knowing the car accelerates (saving gas;) and brakes more efficiently ;-). Just my thoughts anyway.

As for 17s vs 18s. I think the former is the more practical option...much better ride and wallet preservation.

BCleaver, I love your black shoes on that silver car. Stunning and aggressive stance with those meats.

-Terry

[murph]

I think the performance might be better with the 245 too being that the tire is properly stretched to the wheel (think less under-tensioned rubber to roll over during corner...which would require more camber). 245s may also be up to a pound lighter per tire. I know that's not much when you're dealing with all this horsepower and torque, but anything for peace of mind knowing the car accelerates (saving gas;) and brakes more efficiently ;-). Just my thoughts anyway.

Performance does in fact improve as you go wider, though certainly there's a much smaller jump between 255 and 265 than between 245 and 255. At 265 you're fighting gearing, floppiness, and weight, but it still grips better.

[MasterC17]

Ok, I weighed both the front and rear 135's on a good quality non-digital scale - worst case scenario I'm within half a pound. Here are my results

Front: 28.2lbs
Rear: 28.05lbs

[danewilson77]

Yeah....those 135's def shouldn't be in a thread titled "Auto Xing Wheels"

Good data. Thanks.

[spencers]

Ok, I weighed both the front and rear 135's on a good quality non-digital scale - worst case scenario I'm within half a pound. Here are my results

Front: 28.2lbs
Rear: 28.05lbs
Bricks!!!

[Terry]

Thanks for the accurate weights, MasterC17.

Okay Murph, maybe I should have been more specific :) Oversized rubber (ie, 265 on a 9") does help with lateral grip. But I think this mainly would apply to autocross. It is from my ancient club racing experience that I recall cars behaving much better on properly stretched tires. Speaking of corner transition, taking a set, etc. I think the extra rubber that a lot of people try to fit under their cars for cone dodging probably helps as the driver inputs are quite a bit more violent than on a track. With that said I'm not going to say going as narrow as you can is going to help. I think there must be an ideal width. I talked to a friend at a magazine and told him to approach a tire manufacturer and start doing some tire size comparisons. Would be interesting to see how various sizes benefit in various conditions.

-T

[Katu]

The stock rears are 255 on a 8.5" rim, so a 265 on a 9" rim would be very close "stretching" wise, right?

[danewilson77]

It would be close to rubbing, and you may have to stretch it to get it to fit.

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[Terry]

The stock rears are 255 on a 8.5" rim, so a 265 on a 9" rim would be very close "stretching" wise, right?

I'm sure it is similar or maybe even equivalent in terms of ratio (tires width : rim width), but maybe they go so wide for the sake of ride comfort (less stretch) I wouldn't be surprised considering BMW's prioritization of ride quality before performance. My opinion anyway.

-Terry

[balticvid]

bump

[Katu]

What are we bumping for? :)

[Katu]

Anyhow, I plan to run 255s squared on 17x9s, I don't want to have to deal with spacers or rolling the fenders if I don't have to.

[M0nk3y]

Anyhow, I plan to run 255s squared on 17x9s, I don't want to have to deal with spacers or rolling the fenders if I don't have to.

Good luck getting 255s up front. You will need to roll.

Either way to sum up my searching, I bought 4 OEM Style 224s (Yes the same ones) and in a couple weeks will be buying and throwing on some Hankook RS3s with 245/40/18 and 275/35/18 specs

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g135/1nFeCt1oN/230149_1834389347712_1479780173_31905208_4646250_n .jpg

[Katu]

Nice! I like the look of the style 224s.

You got me worried about 255s up front on 17x9s so I did some searching:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12823675&postcount=13

An APEX employee is quoted as saying "Below is a photo of a ZHP with 17x9's and 255/40/17 extreme summer tires. The only modification is lowering springs"


Also, is it true the coupes have more clearance compared to sedans? Or is that only for the rear?

[M0nk3y]

Nice! I like the look of the style 224s.

You got me worried about 255s up front on 17x9s so I did some searching:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12823675&postcount=13

An APEX employee is quoted as saying "Below is a photo of a ZHP with 17x9's and 255/40/17 extreme summer tires. The only modification is lowering springs"


Also, is it true the coupes have more clearance compared to sedans? Or is that only for the rear?

224s are.way too aggressive of an offset for non-ms. Plus they are staggered 18x8, 18x9

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[spencers]

Good googoly moogoly, that thang is juicy. :drool
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b388/paintpro21/apex.jpg

[danewilson77]

224s are.way too aggressive of an offset for non-ms. Plus they are staggered 18x8, 18x9

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What's the offset?

[Crickett]

What's the offset?

224: 8x18 ET 42 front, 9x18 ET 30 rear.

[M0nk3y]

224: 8x18 ET 42 front, 9x18 ET 30 rear.

Bingo

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[danewilson77]

224: 8x18 ET 42 front, 9x18 ET 30 rear.

ET30 rear...eeps.