ZHPMafia.com T-Shirts -- Preview

[Marcus-SanDiego]

I am about to submit my order to the printer. I don't need to know how many you want, or need to know what sizes you wear, I only need to make sure that you would buy a shirt that looks like these. They'll be available in dark gray and black. The ZHPMafia.com logo on the front will be white (ignore the red you see on the front; that's a mock up).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/marcussandiego/back-grey-logo.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/marcussandiego/zhpmafia-v3-large2-png.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/marcussandiego/front-small-logo-png.png

[kayger12]

Absolutely awesome, Boss!

Love it!!

Looking forward to getting my hands on some of these.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Also, there will not be a roundel on the ZHP. I don't have a license from BMW to use the BMW emblem. So, that's why I posted the big logo. Quite frankly, you'll never notice it missing.

Did want to point out the intellectual property issue, though.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Forgot to mention: Jeff's (jvr826) guy did the illustration for us. Jeff, thanks for hooking that up. You asked him to do something for us. This is what he produced.

[C Withers Media]

The design looks great, the shirt grabs attention, I'll take 2... One in each color.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Casey, in my order, I have two shirts set aside for you. Done.

[Katu]

Price?

[Marcus-SanDiego]

About $14.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Can't order these until I get some feedback from you guys. I don't want to get stuck with 50+ shirts. :biggrin

[ZSP-Mafia]

I will definitely take at least one.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

I'm mainly concerned with the design. But saying you'll buy two, James, tells me you like them. So, that will work, too.

I've already got 20 of the shirts going to specific people. I still have another 30-40 I need to gauge interest on.

[kayger12]

I'll be taking at least 3.

Droid X. Tapatalk. Use it.

[kpro]

I will buy one :)

[RITmusic2k]

I dislike the bullet holes in the font. They seem unnecessary and a little... "trashy" is the word I keep coming up with, but I'm not sure that's the best way to say it...

That said, I'll buy at least one of whatever gets produced, along with my ZHP- and BMW- mafia stickers :)

[pyreguy]

I had the same feeling about the bullet holes as well, but I would't let that stop me from rocking these shirts. I will do one in each color as well.


Sent using alien technology and Tapatalk

[Marcus-SanDiego]

The good news is that I can make changes still. No bullet holes. This is why I do previews. Always pays to check with those who will be wearing them.


iPad. Tapatalk. Bi-winning.

[RITmusic2k]

Aww, we're a democracy, just like the real mafia! :mafia

Cool, Marcus.

[L0veZHP]

lol i made the zoom in on the design my laptops background =]

[zhpnsnv]

Yea, same feeling about the bullet holes.

Though I'd accept the bullet holes if the car was a sedan, which is, you know, the original ZHP :mwah.

:biggrin

[Marcus-SanDiego]

No worries, guys. Bullet holes are gone.


iPad. Tapatalk. Bi-winning.

[ryankokesh]

I'll take one please

[Muggzie]

I'll take 2 one in each color oh an just as a suggestion like Someone mentioned before maybe can make one a coupe an the other a sedan? But I like them a lot

[Marcus-SanDiego]

My guy won't make another one for me. Only did it in coupe. Didn't have the time to do it in sedan. I couldn't beat him up, though, because he did this for nothing -- as a favor to our site.

[jvr826]

Forgot to mention: Jeff's (jvr826) guy did the illustration for us. Jeff, thanks for hooking that up. You asked him to do something for us. This is what he produced.

Glad it sorta worked out, but this printer issue is weaksauce.


Also, there will not be a roundel on the ZHP. I don't have a license from BMW to use the BMW emblem. So, that's why I posted the big logo. Quite frankly, you'll never notice it missing.

Did want to point out the intellectual property issue, though.

I have the original artwork and all I see is a black circle on the hood. The printer has gas over the autocross shirt too, same reason. I think they're misinformed.

"A trademark is a word, name, symbol, or other device, or combination thereof that serves to identify the source of goods or services and distinguish them from others."

This guy was clearly in violation of trademark law...
http://blog-money-wiki.com/blog/2008/09/bmw-contacted-me-about-my-blogs-logo.php

I don't think there's any confusion that the source of the above t-shirt (in it's original form) is not BMW, the automobile manufacturer. I would not have changed the design if it were mine.

Wonder how this guy can sell this artwork...
http://fineartamerica.com/featured/e30-m3-indaguis-montoto.html


I'll take 1 black XL shirt and I'll use a sharpie to fix it.

[static667]

I would like one gray in XL, please.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Jeff, that's one aspect of trademark law. It's true that there may be no question as to source, origin, or sponsorship. But maybe there is.

There are three things I think of when I see a BMW logo on a shirt. One, BMW is creating the shirt. Two, BMW has licensed its logo to someone. Or, three, someone is infringing BMW's intellectual property (and they haven't given BMW a dime to use the logo).

If I created a logo, and then trademarked it, I would want to be compensated when someone used my logo. The Lanham Act (federal trademark statutes that govern trademark law in the US) lays out the remedies that I have at my disposal when someone uses my trademark without compensation.

In the case of BMW, it often goes after people who infringe its trademarks. It most certainly can't catch everyone, though. My guess, by the way, is that I would be fine if I used the BMW trademark in my shirts. But I would be rolling the dice. I don't want to get into that business. Indeed, even if the printer was willing to allow me to infringe on BMW marks, I would still not want to infringe.

Now, having said that, I am resubmitting the design with a slightly different roundel. I talked with your guy earlier today. He's producing it for me. The biggest problem is that BMW has a famous mark. These are the strongest marks that someone can have. Instead of having trademark protection across one line of goods (an automobile, for example), BMW can prevent its famous marks from being used across a variety of products (even when they're not in that line of business). When you see a BMW vehicle on the shirt, and you see a round thing on the hood, you automatically think BMW. So, even if I distort it enough, I may still run afoul of the Lanham Act. After all, BMW could come after me with the catch all "tarnishment" argument. When in doubt, a trademark holder will use the tarnishment argument to shoot down someone's use of a mark (happens in every case). When you see a trademark holder make a dilution argument, they're really arguing that you're tarnishing their mark. My use of a distorted roundel, for example, would likely dilute BMW's mark. At least that's the argument I'd expect from BMW.

Also, while you guys most certainly do not think that BMW has created these shirts, others may think that BMW created the shirt. Or someone may think that I licensed the logo from BMW -- even though I have not. BMW has spent millions on promoting its brand and its marks. I am not surprised that they don't want me engaging in commerce using their logo in the process. I suspect they would license the logo to me, but I am not interested in paying them a licensing fee.

In the end, I'm just being safe. If BMW decided to send me a cease and desist letter, and I did not comply with it, I could be sued. If I did not prevail, I would be on the hook for BMW's legal fees.

My guess is that the printer is not going to budge on the roundel issue. We'll see if they're willing to print it, though, when it's clearly not a roundel.

Jeff, I do understand your feelings, though. It does suck that BMW has so much power when it comes to this stuff. It's also frustrating when the printer simply won't print anything that remotely looks like something that could infringe on a trademark. My guess is that the printer has been served with enough cease and desist letters to be gun shy now.

I'll keep you updated.

[pleasecorrupt]

Random suggestion but have you asked some of the sponsors if they wanted to be on the back of the tshirts? Personally think thats a good idea and that might gain interest since some of us go to meets and gatherings and such. just my 2c. Another suggestion, ANY COLORS BESIDES IMOLA, COMEON! that is all.



haha.

[danewilson77]

Boss....I'm just gonna trust you on this one and say +1

Droid + Tapatalk = FTW!

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Some of the sponsors may be interested in being on the shirt. I'm not interested in having them on the shirt, though. This is a clutter-free shirt devoid of commercialism.

Good idea, PC. But not this time around.

As for imola, I had to go with a color. Red is the most vivid. Additionally, more people own an imola red car (per the ZHP Registry) than any other color. Based on that, this shirt would likely appeal to more people. Likewise, someone who is not a member of this site -- but who does see the shirt -- may be able to identify with the shirt more easily if it's a color they recognize and a car design they recognize too (their own). Again, imola red being the most prevalent ZHP color, we're more likely to run into people (strangers) who have an imola red car. Just going with the numbers here. If I had not gone with red, it would have been silver.

Finally, I am keeping costs down by not having 6 different car colors on six different color shirts.

I had to make choices. What we see in this thread is the outcome of those choices.

I hope people can appreciate the difficulty in making the choices, choosing how many shirts to make (when I have few firm orders), and the legal aspects of creating something that can be displayed on the shirt.

I'm not in this to make money. I've built a little profit into the shirts (about $2). Spread that across 56 shirts, and we're talking about a whopping $112 in profit before taxes.

Because this is not a money-making endeavor for me, I am not spending a lot of time on this.

If someone wants a shirt, they'll have to buy the shirt in black or gray. And they'll have to take the ZHP in red.

Hopefully everyone understands.

[zhpnsnv]

We're with you! Keep doing what you do, sir.

[pleasecorrupt]

To me the advertisements on the back of the shirt wouldn't intrude too much since the back is rather plain, adding advertisements on the back would actually somehow authenticate the shirt for me somehow, like we're not just guys that came up with a shirt, but that we mean business. Sorta like those concert tees with dates and sponsers. And the income to help support the site would always be welcomed. But thats just my 2c and i hear what your saying and respect your opinion.

[Johnmadd]

I take a black one and maybe a grey. I like to buy huge shirts and then purposely shrink them in the first wash so I don't have to worry about it being too small after a couple washes. Will 3xl be available?

[Marcus-SanDiego]

PC, I do understand your position. I do. It's not crazy.

The fact is, we are just guys who came up with the shirt. We don't need validation from the rest of the world. I'm not interested in making people think we're a slick entity (site) with sponsors who endorse our shirts. We don't need it. We're a tiny little forum with a very intimate feel.

When people come to our site, I think they understand what we're about. Whether they think we mean business is up to them. I'd like to think that people who happen upon our site realize that we've got a good thing going here.

What am I saying? I'm pretty comfortable in my own skin. I think you guys are, too. We don't need a slew of sponsors splashed on our shirts to make us more legitimate.

We're already legitimate. That's good enough for me.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

John, I have two 3XL shirts in my order. I can add more. Tell me how many you need.

[Johnmadd]

I definitely want one in black, not sure I need 2 but if the 1 strikes up conversation when I wear it I may want a second shirt. Buy the other and if it comes down to the last one and nobody wants and I haven't bought it yet I will pay up for it.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

OK. The other should be in black also or in gray?

[Johnmadd]

Gray. Thanks. I am thrifty right now but when it comes down to it I know I'll just buy both.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Thanks, John. We'll see what happens.

[SC4ME]

Im in for one. They look great to me.

[Katu]

I'd like a dark gray in Large.

[zhpnsnv]

I'll go for a gray in large.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Here is the final logo. Notice that I managed to get a hood emblem in there. It's not a roundel. It's close enough. The printer has agreed to print it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/marcussandiego/zhpmafia-v3-nobullets-nologo-300dpi-png.png

[RITmusic2k]

Verrrrry nice. :thumbsup

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Turned out well, I think.

[static667]

I like it. Nothing against PC, I would rather not have any other logos on it. I like the uncluttered look.

One rooted Droid and Tapatalk. I win.

[ZSP-Mafia]

Love it!

[Jon D]

I'm in for one of each XL. And I really like the RED car. After all Imola rocks.

[vwpowa]

In for 2

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Thanks, guys. Just waiting for the printer to take my order now. I have everything squared away.

[xtremecro]

ill take one too! let me know!

[danewilson77]

Thanks, guys. Just waiting for the printer to take my order now. I have everything squared away.

Of course...

Droid + Tapatalk = FTW!

[johnrando]

Sorry I'm late to this party... I'll take one XL - in BLACK of course! (Wouldn't expect anything different, would you?) :-) John

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Sorry I'm late to this party... I'll take one XL - in BLACK of course! (Wouldn't expect anything different, would you?) :-) John

No, I would not. Dane believes every color in the world is a shade of imola red. And you must have everything in black. On the upside, it makes shopping for you a lot easier!

[Katu]

ETA? :)

[Go Horns!]

Put me down for a XXL in gray

[Marcus-SanDiego]

ETA? :)

Won't have an ETA until tomorrow.

I will let you guys know.

[Crickett]

Won't have an ETA until tomorrow.

I will let you guys know.
LOL: ETA ETA tomorrow. :rofl

+1 for a medium in black. They look gooood.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

LOL: ETA ETA tomorrow. :rofl

+1 for a medium in black. They look gooood.

:biggrin

[Marcus-SanDiego]

The t shirts are now ordered.

They should be available around May 10. As things progress, I may fine tune that availability date.

[ryankokesh]

How would you like to be paid?

[Katu]

How would you like to be paid?

^^^

[Marcus-SanDiego]

I'd prefer to get paid via PayPal.

These details will be worked out as we get closer to delivery. I will not be charging anyone before I get these shirts. When I have them in hand, and they're ready to ship, then I will collect money. I will ship out the same day that I receive payment from you (unless it's a weekend or it's after the post office has closed).

Thanks, guys.

[danewilson77]

Marky....are you going to start up a seperate order thread...or do you want the fella's to start a list here?

[RITmusic2k]

Yeah, I didn't mention sizes or anything in my first post; are you planning on getting a full distribution of sizes and we'll just purchase out of the batch?

[Marcus-SanDiego]

That's correct. I have already ordered them in a variety of sizes. When each size sells out, they sell out.

I will start a new order thread.

In that thread, the price -- which will include shipping -- will be disclosed as well.

[az3579]

Damn, I can't check the forum for a couple of days and all of a sudden, shirts are made up, ordered, and shipped. Damn guys...

Please tell me that you aren't "sold out" (all preordered already)...

[Marcus-SanDiego]

BP, nope. There are plenty of shirts available. I ordered 60 shirts.

[norman@southbayBMW]

How can I order the shirt

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Norman, I will be starting up an order thread shortly. In the thread, you will tell me how many shirts you want, what size(s) you want, and what colors you want.

When the shirts arrive to me, I will start taking money from you guys. I will then ship out the shirts (same day that I receive payment from you guys). Until then, you'll be holding on to your cash.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Go to the order thread here (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?2607-T-shirt-Order-Thread-ZHP-Mafia-shirts).