Steering Wheel Judder when Braking

[ZHPCraze]

All,

I'm new to this forum. I had the Stoptech2 Performance Brakes and Rotors installed last summer on my 330ci ZHP and do not drive this car daily. At high speeds around 75-80 when I brake the steering wheel shakes. I contacted Zeckhausen here in Jersey and they suggested doing the bedding procedure again in 2-3 sets due to deposit buildup on the pads. I performed the procedure twice but did not notice any difference. I replacd the control arms and bushings 2 years ago so I doubt its any of those parts. Hopefully the bedding procedure didnt mess up the rotors more. Maybe I wasnt that aggressive enough when I did the beding. I only feel the steering wheel shake. Theres no shake in the brake pedal itself or in the steering column. I'm taking the car in next week to have them examine everything. Sorry for the long message but I need to find a solution to this annoying issue. Any suggestions, please. Here's a picture of my ESS TS2 330.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b172/NIM330ZHP/zhp.jpg

[zhpnsnv]

Cool car! Welcome!

It's definitely pad transfer on your brakes - could be a result of an aggressive pad and not really aggressive driving, sitting, etc... You don't have "warped" rotors, as most assume, you just have bedded on crap on your rotors.

The BEST way to get that crap off is to go to a track day and manage to NOT transfer more pad to the rotor. If that's not an option, keep the bed-in procedures going. Remember that the pad has transferred some of its material to the rotor and isn't perfectly flush anymore, so even when you get rid of the stuff on the rotor, you might still have a slight wobble.

I chased this problem (still am) on my track Cooper S and learned a lot about it on the way.

If you found that helpful, can I have a ride in that sweet car?

Also - you know if you've been aggressive enough if when you come to a stop the brakes are slightly smoking. Seriously. You really need to get the heat up to get the crap off, hence the track day suggestion.

All else fails, I suppose you could have the rotors "cut."

[Mtnman]

Yup. Agree. When I bedded mine, they were smoking when I was done. 60 to 10 10 times in a row, keeping them hot is what I did. Just my 2cents.

[danewilson77]

Could be steering guibo....or the rotors could be warped....

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[zhpnsnv]

Could be steering guibo....or the rotors could be warped....

Droid + Tapatalk = FTW!

With that brake kit and the type of driving he _probably_ does (ie, NO track), I'd have to make the guess that there is NO way those rotors are "warped," or bent in any way. There's crap on them and it needs to come off.

[danewilson77]

I thought rotor warp was caused by emebedded particles and uneven heating of the rotor?

Droid + Tapatalk = FTW!

[Linh]

I had the same issues but only under light braking situations that made the steering shudder. It was cause of warped rotors.

A easy way to check is to jack your front tire up and spin them. The wheel should spin freely, but any rubbing noises, probably warped rotors. If so, get them turned.

[zhpnsnv]

I guess when I hear "warped" I think that the metal of the rotor is actually not straight. This can happen, but really only in very extreme cases. The rotor has crap on it, so it's not flat. If we want to call that "warped," I guess that's fine.

[kayger12]

+1 on the pad transfer.

And your car is 100% :drool

:jealous

Post up in the new members thread with some more pics please!

[ZHPCraze]

Thanks for the warm welcome. And I do believe also that there are deposits on the pads. Even though the car is supercharged I drive it hard but not track style. The only time I think I was very hard on them was a Bear Mountain run. I find it hard to believe they are warped since I only had them on since last summer. How hard am I suppose to step on the brakes during the re-bedding procedure? If the brakes are suppose to smoke after I'm done then pressing the brakes must be done pretty aggressively. I'm taking it in this wknd to have everything checked out.

Wouldn't repeating the bedding procedure risk damaging the rotors more?

Sure you can have a ride? Are you going to EuroFest on May 22nd at Paul Miller?



Cool car! Welcome!

It's definitely pad transfer on your brakes - could be a result of an aggressive pad and not really aggressive driving, sitting, etc... You don't have "warped" rotors, as most assume, you just have bedded on crap on your rotors.

The BEST way to get that crap off is to go to a track day and manage to NOT transfer more pad to the rotor. If that's not an option, keep the bed-in procedures going. Remember that the pad has transferred some of its material to the rotor and isn't perfectly flush anymore, so even when you get rid of the stuff on the rotor, you might still have a slight wobble.

I chased this problem (still am) on my track Cooper S and learned a lot about it on the way.

If you found that helpful, can I have a ride in that sweet car?

Also - you know if you've been aggressive enough if when you come to a stop the brakes are slightly smoking. Seriously. You really need to get the heat up to get the crap off, hence the track day suggestion.

All else fails, I suppose you could have the rotors "cut."

[Johnmadd]

My e30 steering wheel was shaking recently during braking and I rode the brake hard during acceleration and went around offramps with one foot on the the gas and one the brake after a hard one hour drive from work like that my shaking wheel was gone, satisfied with the results.

[ZHPCraze]

how hard were you stepping on the brakes?

after you rebedded them your juddering of the steering wheel went away?



Yup. Agree. When I bedded mine, they were smoking when I was done. 60 to 10 10 times in a row, keeping them hot is what I did. Just my 2cents.

[zhpnsnv]

My experience is that bedding in street conditions makes the shuddering better but doesn't totally eliminate it, but perhaps that's just down to the process I took.

When you do your 60 (or 70 or 80) down to 10s, you "threshold brake," which means you brake as hard as you can without activating ABS. Wear your seat belt.

[danewilson77]

Thanks for the warm welcome. And I do believe also that there are deposits on the pads. Even though the car is supercharged I drive it hard but not track style. The only time I think I was very hard on them was a Bear Mountain run. I find it hard to believe they are warped since I only had them on since last summer. How hard am I suppose to step on the brakes during the re-bedding procedure? If the brakes are suppose to smoke after I'm done then pressing the brakes must be done pretty aggressively. I'm taking it in this wknd to have everything checked out.

Wouldn't repeating the bedding procedure risk damaging the rotors more?

Sure you can have a ride? Are you going to EuroFest on May 22nd at Paul Miller?

Use the bed in procedure from www.zeckhausenracing.com

[RITmusic2k]

For anyone interested in reading more into 'warped rotors' / material transfer, StopTech has a great series of white papers on the topic:
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml


And the rest of their articles. I learned so much reading these:
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/tech_white_papers.shtml

[zhpnsnv]

I just spent the better part of the morning with Chris (ZHPCraze) and his really frickin fast ZHP. We used the remote roads around me to try the bedding procedure. First attempt left transfer on the rotors, to the point where we could still see it. Second attempt cleaned 'em up.

Chris's car is ridiculous. ESS twin-screw, very clean, well done all around. I believe him when he says it'll take a stock M3 and has power somewhere near 350 hp. Definitely one of the quickest cars I've driven.

As far as the transfer goes, I think this will continue to be an issue with anyone running slotted rotors on a street car who doesn't get the brakes up to temperature every time out. Those slots are just going to continue to build up the material and cause the shuddering. I really suggest regular rotors for anyone who is just using their car on the street, especially if the car is going to sit for any period of time and then not see particularly intense braking when driven.

Also - Chris is a great guy, certainly befitting the Mafia crowd.

[kayger12]

Nice work. You just reminded me I owe him a PM.

Definitely gonna need a Jersey get together.

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