2015 328i xdrive sport wagon

[phillipjfry]

Hey all, not sure if this is the right place to post. Feel free to move if it's not. Buying my wife a newer car. Found a 2015 328i xdrive wagon. 34,000 miles CPO for 23k. Thinking about pulling the trigger tomorrow. Any reasons not to? It would come with almost 20month bumper to bumper BMW warranty. It's in amazing shape, not a scratch on it. Looks brand new. Has heated seats, auto dim mirrors, panoramic sunroof, navigation. The only thing it doesn't have that would be nice are sport seats. Not very familiar with xdrive. Haven't been able to find too much negative via the interwebz. Wondering what you all think? Thanks!

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[fredo]

That sounds good to me. I drove a F30 sedan AWD some months ago, I could not tell a difference compared to my F30 RWD. Keep us posted !

[phillipjfry]

Went in today to buy it. BMW messed up, and it wasn't certified like the dealer said. They offered to "throw in" a one year warranty for $1,600. My wife and I started packing our stuff to leave as soon as the finance guy gave us that generous offer. Oh well, the hunt is back on.

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[fredo]

Bummer. Oh, well. There's another one out there waiting for you.

[phillipjfry]

Ended up with a 2016 subaru legacy 3.6r limited. I was really surprised how much I like the car. I actually really like the sort of generic styling, and the interior is super comfortable. It checked all the boxes but made in Germany..

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[Obioban]

I had an e91 for a couple of years. I would not suggest buying it...
-it's a huge pain in the balls to work on. Every. Single. Project. This was the main reason we sold it
-the panoramic sunroom makes back seat headroom useless
-BMW used incredibly squishy subframe bushings to hide the harshness of the runflat tires. In order to make the car drive like the body is attached to the suspension you need to replace these with m3 subframe bushings (and get rid of the runflats)
-e9Xs are heavy in general
-the n52 burns at least one coil every 10,000 miles :P. Endless coil replacement.

[az3579]

I had an e91 for a couple of years. I would not suggest buying it...
-it's a huge pain in the balls to work on. Every. Single. Project. This was the main reason we sold it
-the panoramic sunroom makes back seat headroom useless
-BMW used incredibly squishy subframe bushings to hide the harshness of the runflat tires. In order to make the car drive like the body is attached to the suspension you need to replace these with m3 subframe bushings (and get rid of the runflats)
-e9Xs are heavy in general
-the n52 burns at least one coil every 10,000 miles :P. Endless coil replacement.


The OP was looking at an F31, not an E91. :)

[Obioban]

The OP was looking at an F31, not an E91. :)

Derp. I fail.

Well, everything F3X is garbage, so... burn it in a fire.

[dannyzabolotny]

Derp. I fail.

Well, everything F3X is garbage, so... burn it in a fire.

Agreed. I've never been super impressed with any of the F3x cars, whether it was a base 320i or a fully loaded 328i xDrive touring. The 4 cylinder models are just super coarse and unrefined, and they feel more like an economy car than a BMW. The electric steering is straight trash as well. The 6 cylinder models are a lot nicer in terms of the drivetrain, but they still suffer from the generally cheap build quality that plagues all of the F3x cars.

[wstr75]

I beg to differ. I own a 2015 F33 convertible (435ix) and it is not a trash vehicle at all. It is an impressive ride. Yes, the steering is not stiff like my E46 ZHP convertible. It is not wimpy washy careening off the road because of poor steering feel, either. My F33 gives me plenty of steering feedback. Of course, the reader has to de-rate my opinions on steering feel because of my advanced age (66) and predilection to have my fun accelerating on interstate entrance ramps and not running around curves at places like VIR where steering feel differences are probably more acutely discernible when driving 9/10.

The F33 interior build quality is not shabby. Everything is within reach, works as it should, looks good, etc. I design products in plastics (injection, extrusion and rotational molding). I appreciate the complex and practical shapes made in plastics. I'm thinking about compromises all the time such as enjoying short acceleration jaunts to insert into interstate traffic that is not moving over, contemplating how much CO2 my drive is emitting and so forth. While I truly enjoy the more analog experience of my 2004 E46, the F33 is more in step with where my mental arguments are taking me these days. Lighter, more efficient, more optionality (turbocharged engine for more power while burning less fuel at stoplights with the Eco setting).

I am expecting to get a heavy flaming from my fellow ZHP owners for making these comments. I appreciate critical comments. Our society needs more thoughtful debates at all levels, including us car enthusiasts. Let's hope they do not take our car ownership choices away from us. Period. Remember Mark Twain's quote: "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session."

[az3579]

I am expecting to get a heavy flaming from my fellow ZHP owners for making these comments. I appreciate critical comments. Our society needs more thoughtful debates at all levels, including us car enthusiasts. Let's hope they do not take our car ownership choices away from us. Period. Remember Mark Twain's quote: "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session."


I totally agree with everything you said about your F33. It's amazing how quick people will dismiss a car because of "steering feel" but forget all the other excellent traits of these vehicles.

[Silbergrauwler]

I love an F31. On the short list of cars to replace our E61 in a couple of years and they look so good with just a little bit of love. I truly hope you love your Subaru. The H-6 is a really great engine and as a person who has owned four Subarus I can tell you it is nice to have something with that level of dependability and no-BS AWD.

[Obioban]

The F31's shitiness isn't limited to its (non existent) steering feel. It also handles poorly, has a terrible powerband (lag, huge amount of torque, then falls on its face right where you'd want it to pick up if actually driving it fast), has a useless back seat for tall people thanks to the stupid pano sunroof (which is also terrible for COG), can only be had in automatic, can only be had in awd, can only be had as a 4 cylinder, and is horrific to work on. Also, still no dip stick, drain plugs, etc.

I can't think of any combination of wants that would lead me to buy one.

[az3579]

The F31's shitiness isn't limited to its (non existent) steering feel. It also handles poorly, has a terrible powerband (lag, huge amount of torque, then falls on its face right where you'd want it to pick up if actually driving it fast), has a useless back seat for tall people thanks to the stupid pano sunroof (which is also terrible for COG), can only be had in automatic, can only be had in awd, can only be had as a 4 cylinder, and is horrific to work on. Also, still no dip stick, drain plugs, etc.

I'm not saying you should buy one, but I can't say I have the same experience as you driving the various loaners I've had throughout the F3x's lifetime.

Handling - had an F34 loaner. Serious eyesore to look at for me personally, but it held its own on the twisty parts of the Merritt Parkway coming from New York into Connecticut. I took those corners at some pretty fast speeds. I was able to place the car accurately in the lane and never once did I feel like I was going to understeer into the guardrail. The suspension was a bit soft but that was expected. It's no ZHP or M3, but it's also no Corolla either.

I experienced very little lag regardless of which F3x I drove (drove 328, 330, and 340 variants). If that's huge lag to you, you should drive some traditional turbo cars. You can't mat the accelerator when it's in top gear and expect it to go anywhere; you've got to keep it in manual mode in a gear you specify if you are driving it fast. In this case there is almost zero lag. There is no falling on its face; it's powerband is so wide that the only way I see that happening is if you're at the very top of the rev range or at the very bottom, and those are pretty far apart extremes. It has to be driven differently than a naturally aspirated BMW. The only other two turbo cars I've driven had significantly more lag; a 2005 VW Jetta GLI 6-speed, and a Mazdaspeed 6. With that said, I do prefer the immediate response of something NA.

Back seat - I fit perfectly fine back there (6'1") when I rode in an F31 a while ago . The average adult male height worldwide is less than 6ft, so I'd say the majority of the world would disagree about the useless part. I also had sufficient legroom compared to my ZHP, which is cramped.

Drain plugs - There is a drain plug for motor oil changes. Transfer case and differential will require a suction gun/pump, but it's not hard to do, and those don't have to be changed all that often so it doesn't even matter that it's slightly more difficult, so I'd say this is hardly a deal breaker.

Can only be had as 4cylinder AWD automatic - yeah, this is a bummer. But that auto is tremendous when paired with the Sport programming and paddles, so it's actually a positive point. Being forced to a 4-cylinder automatic with AWD is also a bummer, but it's redeeming qualities kind of balance out that limitation. The 4-cylinder has good power and fuel economy. Ultimately having choice is always the best, but when you're stuck with a certain config, at least it's a decent one.

Ultimately, you can thank all the people buying those SUVs for the lack of choice here. Might as well give up driving soon, because all that will be available in the near future will be electric, self-driving SUVs.

[Obioban]

I didn't mention EPS before, because it was "covered", but I do think it bears bringing back in-- any car where I can't feel the front tires losing grip ruined for me. How can you drive a car at the limit when the limit is hidden from you?


Handling - had an F34 loaner. Serious eyesore to look at for me personally, but it held its own on the twisty parts of the Merritt Parkway coming from New York into Connecticut. I took those corners at some pretty fast speeds. I was able to place the car accurately in the lane and never once did I feel like I was going to understeer into the guardrail. The suspension was a bit soft but that was expected. It's no ZHP or M3, but it's also no Corolla either.

I don't think any meaningful handling judgements can be made on a highway :P

That said, one thing I find endlessly annoying about all EPS cars I've driven is that on the highway I have to endlessly correct. It's exhausting. On cars with steering feel, I can feel the car getting pulled and correct without thinking about it. In EPS cars, I have to wait till I see drift, and then visually correct it. Terrible.


I experienced very little lag regardless of which F3x I drove (drove 328, 330, and 340 variants). If that's huge lag to you, you should drive some traditional turbo cars. You can't mat the accelerator when it's in top gear and expect it to go anywhere; you've got to keep it in manual mode in a gear you specify if you are driving it fast. In this case there is almost zero lag. There is no falling on its face; it's powerband is so wide that the only way I see that happening is if you're at the very top of the rev range or at the very bottom, and those are pretty far apart extremes. It has to be driven differently than a naturally aspirated BMW. The only other two turbo cars I've driven had significantly more lag; a 2005 VW Jetta GLI 6-speed, and a Mazdaspeed 6. With that said, I do prefer the immediate response of something NA.

34731

Unequivocally, the power falls off at high RPM.

Yes, it's not an 80s turbo engine when you can count to 5 while it spools. But, any lag means I can't balance understeer/oversteer accurately using the throttle-- which is what I care about, and why I don't want any turbos on any of my cars, ever.


Drain plugs - There is a drain plug for motor oil changes. Transfer case and differential will require a suction gun/pump, but it's not hard to do, and those don't have to be changed all that often so it doesn't even matter that it's slightly more difficult, so I'd say this is hardly a deal breaker.

The lack of drain plugs on the diff/transfer case is indicative of every aspect of working on the car. Post e46/e39 era, BMW seems to have completely stopped considering serviceability in the designs of their cars. This is the main reason I sold my wife's e91 and put her in an e39 M5-- working on every aspect of the car was a ridiculous ordeal.
e46 valve cover gasket: 1 hour project
e91 valve cover gasket: 8 hour project
e46 rear main seal: 3 min, no special tools required
e91 rear main seal: 3 stage epoxy that takes multiple hours to set, $500 special tool required, and it leaks more than the e46 version
e46 diff fluid swap: use drain plug
e91 diff fluid swap: drill and tap your own drain hole if you want all the fluid, or use an extractor if you want most
e46 battery swap: replace battery
e91 battery swap: replace battery and reprogram car to accept battery using BMW tool or aftermarket copy

and the new cars are much, MUCH worse than the e9X was.

The sense of relief was free of ever having to work on the e9X again was immense. Unless BMW has a dramatic reverse course on that front, I won't be buying a post e46/e39/e38 ICE car from them.


Can only be had as 4cylinder AWD automatic - yeah, this is a bummer. But that auto is tremendous when paired with the Sport programming and paddles, so it's actually a positive point. Being forced to a 4-cylinder automatic with AWD is also a bummer, but it's redeeming qualities kind of balance out that limitation. The 4-cylinder has good power and fuel economy. Ultimately having choice is always the best, but when you're stuck with a certain config, at least it's a decent one.

A car with any of the following is ruined for me:
automatic
turbo
awd
EPS (at least until someone makes a system that isn't ass-- but so far every system I've driven has been)

Each in isolation ruins a car for me. The F31 can only be had with all of them, so.... hard pass.

[cakM3]

I didn't mention EPS before, because it was "covered", but I do think it bears bringing back in-- any car where I can't feel the front tires losing grip ruined for me. How can you drive a car at the limit when the limit is hidden from you?

Keep in mind not everyone are driving their cars at the limit Ian. For the “average” driver this may be more than good enough for them...


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[phillipjfry]

Why don't you guys tell me how you really feel?

The only thing that I can say about the sport wagon's rear seats is, I was able to put a rear facing car seat in, and still have room to adjust my seat to where I wanted it.

As for the Subaru, it's my wife's car. She loves it! I love the fact that I dont have to do anything more than oil changes, and cabin filter replacements for the next 4 years. I've driven it a few times, it's a really comfortable, nice riding, and it has plenty of power. It's not a sports car, so I wouldn't expect sport sedan feel.

It does the job, looks nice, and my wife is happy. Mic drop.

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[cakM3]

It does the job, looks nice, and my wife is happy. Mic drop.

There ya go!!


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[Obioban]

Keep in mind not everyone are driving their cars at the limit Ian. For the “average” driver this may be more than good enough for them...


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I suppose that's fair...

... but at that point I'd buy something Japanese.

[cakM3]

I suppose that's fair...

... but at that point I'd buy something Japanese.

GT-R comes to mind... it was a toss up but I went with a Porsche turbo instead...

I still have my E46 M3 though...


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[ComradeNick]

I didn't mention EPS before, because it was "covered", but I do think it bears bringing back in-- any car where I can't feel the front tires losing grip ruined for me. How can you drive a car at the limit when the limit is hidden from you?



I don't think any meaningful handling judgements can be made on a highway :P

That said, one thing I find endlessly annoying about all EPS cars I've driven is that on the highway I have to endlessly correct. It's exhausting. On cars with steering feel, I can feel the car getting pulled and correct without thinking about it. In EPS cars, I have to wait till I see drift, and then visually correct it. Terrible.



34731

Unequivocally, the power falls off at high RPM.

Yes, it's not an 80s turbo engine when you can count to 5 while it spools. But, any lag means I can't balance understeer/oversteer accurately using the throttle-- which is what I care about, and why I don't want any turbos on any of my cars, ever.



The lack of drain plugs on the diff/transfer case is indicative of every aspect of working on the car. Post e46/e39 era, BMW seems to have completely stopped considering serviceability in the designs of their cars. This is the main reason I sold my wife's e91 and put her in an e39 M5-- working on every aspect of the car was a ridiculous ordeal.
e46 valve cover gasket: 1 hour project
e91 valve cover gasket: 8 hour project
e46 rear main seal: 3 min, no special tools required
e91 rear main seal: 3 stage epoxy that takes multiple hours to set, $500 special tool required, and it leaks more than the e46 version
e46 diff fluid swap: use drain plug
e91 diff fluid swap: drill and tap your own drain hole if you want all the fluid, or use an extractor if you want most
e46 battery swap: replace battery
e91 battery swap: replace battery and reprogram car to accept battery using BMW tool or aftermarket copy

and the new cars are much, MUCH worse than the e9X was.

The sense of relief was free of ever having to work on the e9X again was immense. Unless BMW has a dramatic reverse course on that front, I won't be buying a post e46/e39/e38 ICE car from them.



A car with any of the following is ruined for me:
automatic
turbo
awd
EPS (at least until someone makes a system that isn't ass-- but so far every system I've driven has been)

Each in isolation ruins a car for me. The F31 can only be had with all of them, so.... hard pass.

I have to second that for the most part, I’ve driven just about every 3 series F configuration imaginable and the only one that impressed me was the M3. The new 3 series is really nice to sit in and has a lot of entertainment options, but doesn’t feel as solid as it should. It’s crazy how a 15 year old car worth six times less drives better than some of the new BMWs. Then again the target market for these cars are generally people who want the luxury over performance.


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