The expansion tank problem - does it also apply to ZHPs?

[Stu]

BMW did make a better expansion tank part in lieu of all of the cracking.

Do ZHPs have this part? Do they still suffer from the cracking expansion tank? How many people here have dealt with it?

I'm asking because in 5,000 miles I'll be coming up on 100k, and I need to determine if I want to put in a new expansion tank to prevent a catastrophic failure.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Good question, Zell. Hopefully someone will have the answer. At 59K miles I swapped out my entire coolant system, including expansion tank. I did this as part of my preventive maintenance plan.

[Crickett]

As far as I've seen from folks like those on this forum, yes the ZHP has the same expansion tank problem as any other E46. I've also been through the BMW parts database often & have never seen a ZHP-unique part number for the expansion tank.

[Stu]

Boo. Well, I may get a shop to do that one for me shortly after 100k, as I have heard that it's common to break off the thermostat in the process of changing it out. Not too interested in figuring out how to install that one.

[johnrando]

Mine went out before 40K miles, but fortunately it was covered under CPO. John

[kayger12]

I posed this question to Turner when I was researching the exp tank that they had listed as new and improved:

Good morning,
I noticed on your website you have what you offer as an improved expansion tank item# 17117573781.
It says that it replaces the old inferior tank but doesn't specify what makes it any better. Is it a different material, manufacturing process, etc? Who is the manufacturer?
Appreciate any info you can give me.
Thanks
Keith

And the response:

Keith,


Same manufacturer, BEHR, they just updated the version to a better quality one. I think they simply thickened the plastic walls to help prevent cracking. Not sure exactly but whatever they did it worked, these last much longer.



-Doug



<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>



Douglas Mahar

Turner Motorsport

dugmar@turnermotorsport.com

www.turnermotorsport.com

[johnrando]

Very helpful cuz. I think I'll get one and just tuck it away for the next time I'll need it. John

[billschusteriv]

I'm pretty sure this is problematic for all e46s... unless you got one of them new fangled tanks... then you might have a little longer before they fail.


I posed this question to Turner when I was researching the exp tank that they had listed as new and improved:

Good morning,
I noticed on your website you have what you offer as an improved expansion tank item# 17117573781.
It says that it replaces the old inferior tank but doesn't specify what makes it any better. Is it a different material, manufacturing process, etc? Who is the manufacturer?
Appreciate any info you can give me.
Thanks
Keith

And the response:

Keith,

Same manufacturer, BEHR, they just updated the version to a better quality one. I think they simply thickened the plastic walls to help prevent cracking. Not sure exactly but whatever they did it worked, these last much longer.

-Doug

<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>
Douglas Mahar
Turner Motorsport
dugmar@turnermotorsport.com
www.turnermotorsport.com

Nice research Keith! Thanks for the information!

[kayger12]

No problem. If I'm not mistaken, the newer tanks are supposed to be good for about 90K.

[danewilson77]

Boo. Well, I may get a shop to do that one for me shortly after 100k, as I have heard that it's common to break off the thermostat in the process of changing it out. Not too interested in figuring out how to install that one.

Turner has the "updated" tank.

Droid + Tapatalk = FTW!

[tripod06]

what is the "updated" tank is it just the newer one that is made better?

[danewilson77]

what is the "updated" tank is it just the newer one that is made better?

I guess someone called Turner and questioned the "Updated tank". The guy at Turner was...like...well...it's better. I wanted to buy a new one....and compare it to an old one....after cutting them both in half.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Turner says the new and improved expansion tank is part number 17137787039.

EDIT: AutohausAZ does not have that part.

[JohnnyGraphic]

Unless you overhaul and replace all of the problematic items with much better parts (water pump, thermostat, expansion tank and even the radiator), you will be faced with a preventative replacement of the cooling system every 60-90k miles. They do have aluminium radiators and steel (?) thermostats and better water pumps, but they're very cost prohibitive. Since the pulleys and belts are wear items anyway and you will need to do those items, why not just do the full cooling system overhaul including the coolant and be done with it. My expansion tank didn't show any bad signs at 60k. But, the water pump was definitely going. There is so much plastic in the engine bay, that there are a lot of things that will need to be replaced on a consistent basis.

My 2 cents.

Johnny

[danewilson77]

Unless you overhaul and replace all of the problematic items with much better parts (water pump, thermostat, expansion tank and even the radiator), you will be faced with a preventative replacement of the cooling system every 60-90k miles. They do have aluminium radiators and steel (?) thermostats and better water pumps, but they're very cost prohibitive. Since the pulleys and belts are wear items anyway and you will need to do those items, why not just do the full cooling system overhaul including the coolant and be done with it. My expansion tank didn't show any bad signs at 60k. But, the water pump was definitely going. There is so much plastic in the engine bay, that there are a lot of things that will need to be replaced on a consistent basis.

My 2 cents.

Johnny

Hoses?

[JohnnyGraphic]

Yeah, and hoses too! :)

Don't forget the occasional 0-ring and/or sensors too.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Question: do we have a thread that names every part and part number required for coolant overhaul? If not, that would be quite useful.

[JohnnyGraphic]

IIRC, there are threads that list links to sponsors that do have a full cooling system overhaul kit though.

[danewilson77]

Question: do we have a thread that names every part and part number required for coolant overhaul? If not, that would be quite useful.

No...but this pretty much covers 2003 and > for 330........

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/163628_x600.jpg

http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-330i-M54_3.0L/Engine/Cooling/ES263603/

[JohnnyGraphic]

Only option I would add is a brass bleeder screw. Cheap insurance.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

I agree. What I am saying, though, is that we need a post that lays out the part and the corresponding part number. I think it would be helpful. ECS does not break it out by part number.

[danewilson77]

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/163628_x600-1.jpg

[danewilson77]

I agree. What I am saying, though, is that we need a post that lays out the part and the corresponding part number. I think it would be helpful. ECS does not break it out by part number.

Agree...but P/N's are going to change between models. You mean just for ZHP?


http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/163628_x600-1.jpg


Only option I would add is a brass bleeder screw. Cheap insurance.

Agree

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Yes. Just for our cars.

[Len013091]

The Expansion tank is the same across all E46 cars. The difference lies in the rail it sits on (auto has a cooler, manual does not).

[danewilson77]

I agree. What I am saying, though, is that we need a post that lays out the part and the corresponding part number. I think it would be helpful. ECS does not break it out by part number.


http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/163628_x600-1.jpg


Only option I would add is a brass bleeder screw. Cheap insurance.


Yes. Just for our cars.

You mean just for my 2/2004 330i ZHP?

[Marcus-SanDiego]

If you took your car to the shop today -- your 2004 ZHP -- would you have different part numbers for your cooling system than someone with a 2003 or 2005 sedan ZHP? In other words, if three ZHP sedans -- 2003, 2004, and 2005 -- drove in one at a time, would they all be able to use the same parts and numbers? If so, what are the parts and part numbers?

Similarly, would coupe and convertible owners -- 2004, 2005, and 2006 -- be able to use the same part numbers and parts? If so, what are the part names and numbers?

Also, do the sedans, coupes, and convertibles all share the same parts and part numbers?

Thanks in advance. LOL.

[Len013091]

All M54 Cooling system parts are the same with the exception of the expansion tank mount and the trans cooler.

[danewilson77]

All M54 Cooling system parts are the same with the exception of the expansion tank mount and the trans cooler.

I know...i was just yanking Boss's chain a lil.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[danewilson77]

If you took your car to the shop today -- your 2004 ZHP -- would you have different part numbers for your cooling system than someone with a 2003 or 2005 sedan ZHP? In other words, if three ZHP sedans -- 2003, 2004, and 2005 -- drove in one at a time, would they all be able to use the same parts and numbers? If so, what are the parts and part numbers?

Similarly, would coupe and convertible owners -- 2004, 2005, and 2006 -- be able to use the same part numbers and parts? If so, what are the part names and numbers?

Also, do the sedans, coupes, and convertibles all share the same parts and part numbers?

Thanks in advance. LOL.

My question is...if a vert, a coupe, and a sedan pulled into the, said shop...which would take home the owners sister?

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[Marcus-SanDiego]

My question is...if a vert, a coupe, and a sedan pulled into the, said shop...which would take home the owners sister?

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

Just ran this by someone I trust.

Answer: coupe owner. I can't argue with that. hehe.

[Len013091]

My question is...if a vert, a coupe, and a sedan pulled into the, said shop...which would take home the owners sister?

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

Does the sister have children or friends with her?

[Marcus-SanDiego]

+1 damn good question.

[aurelius]

What I am saying, though, is that we need a post that lays out the part and the corresponding part number. I think it would be helpful. ECS does not break it out by part number.

See below for my cheat sheet. Not 100% on part numbers but it's a thorough list with options, add'l stuff for auto-trans E46's, footnotes, damn near the whole shebang. Feel free to suggest improvements, it's a work-in-progress...

http://db.tt/Yu1ZCO7

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Good info, Mark. And, yes, that's really good pricing on the AutohausAZ site.

[norman@southbayBMW]

I can print out all the part #'s that I give out at work for a complete coolant system re-hose

[norman@southbayBMW]

My question is...if a vert, a coupe, and a sedan pulled into the, said shop...which would take home the owners sister?

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

It depends on whatever the sister wants to do after the ZHP owner takes her on a dinner date ....if just kiss on the first date maybe the coupe or the vert but if the sister wants to do more than just a kiss on the first date she would pick the 4 door ZHP coz there is more leg room in the back seat ....lol

[aurelius]

And, yes, that's really good pricing on the AutohausAZ site.

Just had a look and unfortunately it ain't the Behr version at AutohausAZ. Also, the current p/n is 17117573781. $59 for Genuine BMW @ Husker BMW. $50 for Meyle version @ ECS tuning.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Ahh. I see what happened. When I put that part number in, it took me to a different expansion tank. Good catch.

[2004_blue_zhp]

How about some advice for someone new to this: I bought my ZHP used at 50k miles, and it has the original cooling system as far as I know. If I wanted to swap it out for new parts (just as preventative maintenance), it seems like the ECS kit would be a good way to do that. About how much should I expect to pay to have that kit installed?

[danewilson77]

They will probably charge you at least 4 shop hours for that, and at least $115/hr. Just dhu eet yourself.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

I think 4-5 hours is standard at a shop. If your shop charges $100 an hour (assuming it's an indy shop), you're looking at $500 or so for the install.

[aurelius]

Last I checked, the ECS kit prices were more expensive than buying the parts individually.

Their stage 2 kit is fairly comprehensive but for a thorough job that covers all the cooling system suspects, usual or unusual, have a look at the list to which I posted a link within this thread last night.

You might inquire on the regional section of bimmerforums or on your local BMWCCA chapter site as to whether anyone local to you does BMW repair work in their home garage. That'll save you some bucks and you'll still be able to buy the parts you want to use, at a discount of course. Don't forget BMW coolant. It's the best there is.

It's been very hot here for the past month or so (Dallas) and I saw yet another disabled e46 on the road last week. Nice looking black 330 ZSP cabrio. By time I doubled back to have a look at what if anything remained in the expansion tank, 2 cops were already helping. Which implied to me the driver was probably an attractive female but I continued on since I was driving a 1990 Honda CRXsi that has been in storage and doesn't yet have current registration, etc. Which is a pretty fun car, btw.