Vanos Rattle - Repair Immediately?

[cornercarver]

Gang,

I’m hearing what sounds like it might be vanos rattle. Is it something I should diagnose immediately or you think it could wait a week until my local indy shop can get to it?

Just wondering if it’s safe to drive without seizing something.

Also; How does one determine if it is vanos rattle? I searched YouTube and found a few videos, but none of them really clearly shows what it sounds like...at least, they don’t seem to sound like what I’m hearing. Maybe it’s because I’m hearing it from inside the cabin while driving, with the hood closed, not listening at the front of the engine bay.

[danewilson77]

Let it go a week. It'll be OK.

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[Reasoned1]

Could it be the DISA valve? Mine startled rattling big time last fall at 50k miles. Rebuilt with the GAS kit--no more rattle. Easy to test..

[cornercarver]

Thanks.

I put a brick on the gas pedal and rev’d to about 2000 RPMs so I could listen from the engine bay… Pretty sure it’s the vanos; Sounds the same as the other videos I’ve seen on YouTube.

This is mine;


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oimFf8BdYZ0

(Sorry - terrible video.)

[cornercarver]

Could it be the DISA valve? Mine startled rattling big time last fall at 50k miles. Rebuilt with the GAS kit--no more rattle. Easy to test..
Not likely - just replaced it a couple hundred miles ago.

[cornercarver]

So is the vanos seal repair all that is necessary? I realize it’s a laborious task, but if it’s just the seals that need to be replaced that’s a lot cheaper than the whole Vanos itself.

[BMWCurves]

I've only replaced the VANOS seals, but I know the anti-rattle kit is a separate thing.

[PetesZ]

Do both at the same time. Only trick on the anti rattle is if you have to sand to size the washers.

[az3579]

The rattle is completely harmless. If the noise itself doesn't bother you then don't worry about it.

The rattle in the video is the infamous 2k rattle that lots of BMWs with VANOS have.

Mine rattled when I bought it 8 years ago and it still rattles today. My E30 w/ S50 rattled as well.

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[cornercarver]

The rattle is completely harmless. If the noise itself doesn't bother you then don't worry about it.
I read somewhere that one problem associated with the rattle is a loss of power...any truth to that?

I think I’m going to repair it anyway. The noise does bother me. I’ve been reading about the different repair methods (Beisan vs. Dr. Vanos) and the repair itself is reportedly easy...just time consuming.

I’m going the Beisan route because A) it’s cheaper than Dr. Vanos and B) you can sand the washers/ shims to ensure no axial play. I don’t want to spend $300+ for the DV kit and potentially still have the rattle after spending 5 hours repairing it.

[az3579]

No, the power loss is associated with the seals. The rings that cause the rattle cause no issues other than noise.

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[cornercarver]

Good to know. I was worried about driving it with the rattle.

It sounds like shit above 2500RPM so I’m just going to do the repair.

[BMWM3186]

My car sounded broken between 2-3k rpm with the VANOS rattle. I did the rattle kit from beisan to fix it and it reduced the rattle significantly but did not completely eliminate it.

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[cornercarver]

My car sounded broken between 2-3k rpm with the VANOS rattle. I did the rattle kit from beisan to fix it and it reduced the rattle significantly but did not completely eliminate it.
That's not good news... I wonder if you let it go too long and it got to a point where the rattle caused wear on the pistons so it's not 100% repairable? How soon after you heard the rattle did you repair it?

I honestly don't know how long mine has been rattling because I just heard it for the first time yesterday when I drove with the windows down (first really warm day.) I can't hear the rattle with the windows up and radio on, so it's entirely possible it has been rattling for a while.

Anyhow - I ordered the Beisan rattle and seals kits today. I'm going to fix it and hope it goes away completely.

[BMWM3186]

That's not good news... I wonder if you let it go too long and it got to a point where the rattle caused wear on the pistons so it's not 100% repairable? How soon after you heard the rattle did you repair it?

I honestly don't know how long mine has been rattling because I just heard it for the first time yesterday when I drove with the windows down (first really warm day.) I can't hear the rattle with the windows up and radio on, so it's entirely possible it has been rattling for a while.

Anyhow - I ordered the Beisan rattle and seals kits today. I'm going to fix it and hope it goes away completely.I bought the car with the rattle, afaik the rattle is not caused by the Pistons, but rather the bearings/rings inside of them that wear because of the more aggressive Zhp camshafts.

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[cornercarver]

Ordered the Beisan rattle kit and seals kit, along with a VCG kit, oil fill cap gasket, oil line crush washers and spark plugs. Hopefully will have time to tackle it next weekend...

[az3579]

I bought the car with the rattle, afaik the rattle is not caused by the Pistons, but rather the bearings/rings inside of them that wear because of the more aggressive Zhp camshafts.

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It definitely not a ZHP specific issue. It affects all sorts of BMW vehicles with 6-cylinder VANOS. I'm not sure if the issue is present in 8-cylinder models.

[BMWM3186]

It definitely not a ZHP specific issue. It affects all sorts of BMW vehicles with 6-cylinder VANOS. I'm not sure if the issue is present in 8-cylinder models.I should revise that as more Zhp prevalent. Beisans website has a very good explanation that's very complex on their website as to the reason why the rattle occurs. "Performance cams like the cams on the US E46 ZHP or aftermarket performance (Schrick) cams create stronger camshaft lash forces and thus are more susceptible to causing a rattle."

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[BMWM3186]

Ordered the Beisan rattle kit and seals kit, along with a VCG kit, oil fill cap gasket, oil line crush washers and spark plugs. Hopefully will have time to tackle it next weekend...Looks good, thought the job was pretty easy. Just make sure you are careful when pressing the new seals into the VANOS and be careful around the pistons the metal on them is pretty soft and easy to scratch/mar when cutting the old seals off

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[papa_g]

Mine still rattles at around 2k as well. I did the anti rattle kit and everything. there was MUCH less axial play in the pistons with the new anti rattle rings, but i still hear a brief buzzing like in the video when going through the 2k rpm zone. waste of $60 i guess

[webster]

i have a Dr Vanos kit and am happy with it. mine rattled bad when i bought it (166k miles, currently at 173k). i really like the DRV kit but i know some have had the rattle come back from Dr V. just depends on each unit i guess. i also had the DR V kit on my coupe.

[Sockethead]

When you do the anti rattle kit, you have follow his instructions to the letter and take your time... I had to sand the intake side but the exhaust side was good.
If you need clarification, call him. He's very helpful.

[cornercarver]

When you do the anti rattle kit, you have follow his instructions to the letter and take your time... I had to sand the intake side but the exhaust side was good.
If you need clarification, call him. He's very helpful.
Who?

[Sockethead]

Who?
Raj he is Beisan the number is on his website...

[johnrando]

It's not hard, it's just a LOT of steps and it takes quite a bit of time.

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[cornercarver]

:thumbsup

[cornercarver]

Anyone know where to get the gaskets for the vanos piston covers? I can't find just the gaskets anywhere.

Amazon and others sell them with the piston seal repair kit; https://www.amazon.com/DUAL-VANOS-Ring-Repair-M52tu/dp/B00JMG9O1O

-But I already ordered the Beisan seals.

I read elsewhere that people re-use them. I'd rather replace them if possible.

[Sockethead]

Yea I reused mine twice so far...

[BMWCurves]

Anyone know where to get the gaskets for the vanos piston covers? I can't find just the gaskets anywhere.

Amazon and others sell them with the piston seal repair kit; https://www.amazon.com/DUAL-VANOS-Ring-Repair-M52tu/dp/B00JMG9O1O

-But I already ordered the Beisan seals.

I read elsewhere that people re-use them. I'd rather replace them if possible.

I had the same question. I don’t think they’re sold separately except by third parties. RealOEM doesn’t have a part number.


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[PetesZ]

That is what I found out. That kit is the only one I know of with those metal gaskets. I just finished the install on the track car.

On the daughters car I just did the Viton gaskets left the original metal gaskets in place. No leaks either way

[Sockethead]

Even if it does leak, it's internal, it goes right back to the pan

[PetesZ]

True that - not sure if the pressure loss would ever be of significance. Got mine done last night - need to run it more to get the air bubbles out of the oil line. Seems like the new seals were sticking more that I remembered from the last time.

just needs to be driven harder : cheers

[dpark]

I am the original owner of a ZHP, my rattle started during the warranty period (maybe 1 year into ownership) and before the rattle was well understood (at least by my local BMW dealer). They replaced the entire VANOS system under warranty. The rattle was gone for a couple of months then came back. I took it back to the dealer and this time they called in some regional muckity-muck who told me this was normal and they wouldn't replace the VANOS again (and shouldn't have replaced it the first time).

VANOS still rattles today, from 2000rpm to about 2400rpm and sounds like a Folgers coffee can filled with loose nuts and bolts and is more noticeable under load (like going up a hill) than on a flat road. It is what it is and I try not to think about it. Car currently has 134K miles on it and is 14 years old. I have not noticed any power issues, car still pulls well through that rpm range. No plans to do anything about it.

[Sockethead]

True that - not sure if the pressure loss would ever be of significance. Got mine done last night - need to run it more to get the air bubbles out of the oil line. Seems like the new seals were sticking more that I remembered from the last time.

just needs to be driven harder : cheers

My latest Vanos rebuild seemed to take longer to break in too. Even got a exhaust cam sticking error but all was good after driving the car for a while

[johnrando]

I am the original owner of a ZHP, my rattle started during the warranty period (maybe 1 year into ownership) and before the rattle was well understood (at least by my local BMW dealer). They replaced the entire VANOS system under warranty. The rattle was gone for a couple of months then came back. I took it back to the dealer and this time they called in some regional muckity-muck who told me this was normal and they wouldn't replace the VANOS again (and shouldn't have replaced it the first time).

VANOS still rattles today, from 2000rpm to about 2400rpm and sounds like a Folgers coffee can filled with loose nuts and bolts and is more noticeable under load (like going up a hill) than on a flat road. It is what it is and I try not to think about it. Car currently has 134K miles on it and is 14 years old. I have not noticed any power issues, car still pulls well through that rpm range. No plans to do anything about it.I get you have no plans but the Besian kit will fix that if you are ever so inclined.

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[PetesZ]

There was a pretty detailed youtube video on the rattle repair - forget if it was 50skid or bullshit Korner. I remember beer in the video so probably that crazy Canadian.

[dpark]

I get you have no plans but the Besian kit will fix that if you are ever so inclined.

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Hi Johnrando,

Thanks for the offer. If this is something a low-skilled person could do, I would be interested. My skill level is limited to oil changes, FSR replacement, installing new headlight washer pumps and replacing the stupid ZKW burnt bulbs.

Anything more than that is pretty much beyond my skillset and patience level and would have to get a pro to do it. I have a great indy mechanic, but probably not interested in going to him for this unless the cost was minimal (say less than $300 parts and labor) since it does not seem to be something that will cause my car to blow up. I've dealt with the rattle for 13 years now, I can deal with it for another 13... but if the price is low enough, I will consider it.

[cornercarver]

There was a pretty detailed youtube video on the rattle repair - forget if it was 50skid or bullshit Korner. I remember beer in the video so probably that crazy Canadian.
I watched the 50's Kid video, and while it was well-produced, I don't have a lot of confidence in his skills. He keeps saying things along the lines of 'that's strange, I don't know if it's necessary to do that' or something...like he's just flying by the seat of his pants. I've been looking for others but his are, from a video production and lighting standpoint, much better than most. I think I'd recommend watching his videos, but stress that the Beisan procedure should be read thoroughly...which I've done twice now. I'm planning to do the rattle and seals repairs this weekend.

[cornercarver]

Anyone know where to get new needle bearings for the vanos pistons? RealOEM doesn't list them (nor the pistons) and my local stealer doesn't have a part number either. I figured it would be good to have an extra set just in case.

[PetesZ]

My rough running was from a dead coil pack. Runs like a champ now.

Finally put the code reader on it. Misfire cylinder 4

[Sicily1918]

VANOS still rattles today, from 2000rpm to about 2400rpm and sounds like a Folgers coffee can filled with loose nuts and bolts and is more noticeable under load (like going up a hill) than on a flat road. It is what it is and I try not to think about it. Car currently has 134K miles on it and is 14 years old. I have not noticed any power issues, car still pulls well through that rpm range. No plans to do anything about it.You'd be surprised... my car rattled since I bought it (65K) but I could only hear it when all the windows and sunroof were closed. I didn't think I'd lost any power until I replaced it with a Dr. Vanos unit... regained 2.2MPG per tankful, and definitely felt the power at the lower-end of the RPM band... you might want to consider it.

[dpark]

You'd be surprised... my car rattled since I bought it (65K) but I could only hear it when all the windows and sunroof were closed. I didn't think I'd lost any power until I replaced it with a Dr. Vanos unit... regained 2.2MPG per tankful, and definitely felt the power at the lower-end of the RPM band... you might want to consider it.

Well, I still get 31mpg on the highway (6th gear, 70-75mph) and get 23mpg combined. Maybe there is oomph missing on the low end but since I am not racing the car, I'll never know.

If my engine were going to blow up (like the cooling system) I would do it, but since there doesn't seem to be anything fatal on the horizon, if I can't do it for less than $300, it just isn't worth it to me. Don't mean to sound cavalier about it, but it just isn't that important in the whole scheme of things.