Modern cars SUCK

[Fried_Chicken]

Seriously, what the fuck is going on...

BMW hit the nail on the head with the e46 3-series, and since then they, along with everyone else, have gone, nay, are running backwards. (except Mercedes, they managed that in the late 90s)
Nothing new in the car industry excites me. I don't care about self-driving headlights or eco-efficient connected cupholders.

The basic ideas of what constitutes a good car is being usurped by fluffy disposable bullshit.
Nobody fundamentally believes a good car must include google maps connectivity, or a key-fob remote starting, or plasmonic headlights. Neither on an emotional level, nor on a rational level.
Yet this is what the industry is giving us as a replacement or even distraction from the fundamental criteria of:
price, performance, economy (not efficiency!), luxury, quality, style, utility, and safety.


Here's a list I've compiled of car technologies I completely disagree with:

Start/Stop
LED lights (for anything except brake lights)
Xenon Lights
Laser Lights
Pulse Width Modulated LED lights EVERYWHERE (SERIOUSLY WHO NEEDS TO SAVE 5 WATTS?!)
massive front bumpers (Beluga Whale) to protect pedestrians
cars connected to the internet
google maps in cars
self driving cars
“4 cylinder performs like a v8” yeah right
overcharged microscopic engines (suicide-bomber engines, since you know they're going to explode)
"fly-by-wire” (cpu processing) for everything
any perceptible delay between pushing a button —> action
triple click blinkers
automatic transmissions with > 5 gears
plastic chrome
shitty plastic interiors as replacement for leather
Touch Screens (whoever thought this was a good idea I genuinely believe should be executed)
stupidly complicated vehicle functions (i.e. HVAC)
massive a-pillars and:
visibility being replaced by ding dong electronics (The irony here is this is to increase safety. How about avoiding accidents in the first place?)
SUVs that don't drive offroad (women to blame for this)
Electric power steering (start stop crap?)
electric AC
Artificial engine noise
electronic parking brake (again, an execution is in order)
car models not offering manual transmissions (kill)
speedometers intentionally wrong
single points of failure stranding cars (camshaft position sensor)
automatic transmissions “sealed for life” without a dipstick
No engine oil dipsticks





I'm not naïve to the reason this is happening. Manufacturers know what they're doing, and are laughing all the way to the bank. Electronic gadgets while expensive to develop are cheap to mass produce. Disposable cars are good for their bottom line. Regulators have their heads up their asses, and their balls in the hands of the car industry.

What's really tragic, and where the insanity lies: the customers, the ones that should keep all the bull in check in a good free market, seem blissfully complacent with all of it, except for maybe a slight tingle in the back of their mind that something just ain't right, and I'm not sure how this can be changed. I've seen very little literature, or journalism on the topic.

Here's one video I found that just scratches the surface of the problem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3FDu8KvXOg


In my ideal fantasy reality, we should be able to buy a brand new ZHP that's absolutely bullet proof. No faulty window regulators, fading paint, shitty shift knobs, subframes that eat themselves, etc. But this doesn't exist, and really can't exist for ding-dong regulatory reasons. Not just for a ZHP, but for any type of car, with the only exception being pickup trucks.


I could stop here, but I won't, because the same thing is happening everywhere. Appliances, computers, electronics, journalism, TVs, etc.

These are high dollar industries that are in the same vortex spiral of bullshit, and the customers are blissfully complacent except, again, for that nagging tingling feeling that something isn't quite right.

It seems only one edge, of the double-edged sword of the free market is doing any cutting right now.

Which brings me back to my original question:
What the fuck is going on?

[az3579]

Not to sound harsh, but... You should focus on getting used to it. Your E46 won't last forever, and these things you hate aren't going away. No matter how much I hate the thought of electric self-driving crossovers all over the place, that won't change the reality that this is what most people (non-enthusiasts) want, and ultimately that is who the manufacturers (in addition to safety regulators) will listen to.

Also, don't forget that all the guys with the cars from the early 20th century say the same things about YOUR car.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[Hermes]

That's nice... I'll just keep the carb cars alive
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171022/4337fe8c211f90fb7953489dd16a999d.jpg

[DeathTrap]

Here's a list I've compiled of car technologies I completely disagree with:

Start/Stop
Saves gas, reduces pollutants. What's the issue?

LED lights (for anything except brake lights)
Brighter, more efficient, more robust than halogen.

Xenon Lights
Same as LED.

Laser Lights
Same with LED.

Pulse Width Modulated LED lights EVERYWHERE (SERIOUSLY WHO NEEDS TO SAVE 5 WATTS?!)
Doesn't matter if they were PWM or constant current. LED's are better than filament in the automotive application.

massive front bumpers (Beluga Whale) to protect pedestrians
This I agree with. Apparently it's the car's fault for hitting the pedestrian.

cars connected to the internet
This could be a double-edged sword.

google maps in cars
This is fine.

self driving cars
This is also fine. I've come to accept the fact that self-driving cars are ok. They'll prevent your ZHP from getting hit.

“4 cylinder performs like a v8” yeah right
Most of them do for the majority of driving styles.

overcharged microscopic engines (suicide-bomber engines, since you know they're going to explode)
The modded Fiesta STs seem to be doing ok. I'm sure stock ones will last long enough. Majority will not keep a car long enough to care.

"fly-by-wire” (cpu processing) for everything
This is fine.

any perceptible delay between pushing a button —> action
That's unacceptable. Most likely, the program has a built in delay.

triple click blinkers
Good for quick passing maneuvers.

automatic transmissions with > 5 gears
acceleration+gas mileage

plastic chrome
Cheaper and lighter than regular chrome. Too much of it, is what I don't like.

shitty plastic interiors as replacement for leather
Not everyone cares for the cost, look, or feel of leather.

Touch Screens (whoever thought this was a good idea I genuinely believe should be executed)
Off with their head!

stupidly complicated vehicle functions (i.e. HVAC)
That's built into said touchscreen.

massive a-pillars and:
Protection from poor drivers

visibility being replaced by ding dong electronics (The irony here is this is to increase safety. How about avoiding accidents in the first place?)
I wouldn't say visibility is being replaced, just augmented. I would love to have my side mirrors replaced with cameras...

SUVs that don't drive offroad (women to blame for this)
Not touching this one

Electric power steering (start stop crap?)
It has potential...majority of people don't want to "feel" the road.

electric AC
Gas mileage, frees hp.

Artificial engine noise
As an enthusiast, there is no excuse for this.

electronic parking brake (again, an execution is in order)
More console/foot room.

car models not offering manual transmissions (kill)
Manuals don't sell.

speedometers intentionally wrong
Haven't heard of this one.

single points of failure stranding cars (camshaft position sensor)
Broken balljoint.

automatic transmissions “sealed for life” without a dipstick
Most won't keep the car that long.

No engine oil dipsticks
This one is ok, too.





I'm not naïve to the reason this is happening. Manufacturers know what they're doing, and are laughing all the way to the bank. Electronic gadgets while expensive to develop are cheap to mass produce. Disposable cars are good for their bottom line. Regulators have their heads up their asses, and their balls in the hands of the car industry.

What's really tragic, and where the insanity lies: the customers, the ones that should keep all the bull in check in a good free market, seem blissfully complacent with all of it, except for maybe a slight tingle in the back of their mind that something just ain't right, and I'm not sure how this can be changed. I've seen very little literature, or journalism on the topic.

Here's one video I found that just scratches the surface of the problem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3FDu8KvXOg


In my ideal fantasy reality, we should be able to buy a brand new ZHP that's absolutely bullet proof. No faulty window regulators, fading paint, shitty shift knobs, subframes that eat themselves, etc. But this doesn't exist, and really can't exist for ding-dong regulatory reasons. Not just for a ZHP, but for any type of car, with the only exception being pickup trucks.


I could stop here, but I won't, because the same thing is happening everywhere. Appliances, computers, electronics, journalism, TVs, etc.

These are high dollar industries that are in the same vortex spiral of bullshit, and the customers are blissfully complacent except, again, for that nagging tingling feeling that something isn't quite right.

It seems only one edge, of the double-edged sword of the free market is doing any cutting right now.

Which brings me back to my original question:
What the fuck is going on?

It sounds like your disagreements are based on emotion and not logic.

EDIT: I say that because it seems like you are disagreeing with things that you personally, do not like. To answer your question of what's going on, manufacturers are keeping with the times. People like shiny cars with new tech. Add on the fact that people are actually keeping older cars longer now, that's a pretty good incentive to throw anything and everything they can, within budget, at these modern cars.

[Reasoned1]

I really sympathize, my friend. That’s why I’m carefully preserving my ZHP... to last me as a reminder of what a car should be.

[RUS_ZHP]

I agree with majority of the points discussed above.
It's sad to realize that car manufacturers are selling an "iphones" to people, which most of the owners want to change every two years or so.
Car is not a car anymore, it's a gadget, which sells exceptionally well in the biggest markets like US and China.
Unfortunately, days of reliability, simplicity, functionality and simply a good product as a car had gone.
I totally agree that car enthusiasts should get used to it and simply keep enjoining of what they have and try to keep those cars alive.


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[thinkpad240]

I agree with OP on all important points; these cars today are what the general consumers demand. As long as it is not my car.

[Reasoned1]

Ultimately, it’s the consumers and not the manufacturers to blame, and there’s nothing that can or should be done about that. I don’t have to like it though, and I’m sure my age has a lot to do with it. My personal gripes are as follow:

1. I want a car I can work on—that I can inspect and change components on. The lack of a dipstick is pure heresy to me!
2. I DON’T want a car requiring a bunch of expensive, special tools in order to work on it!
3. I DON’T want a car with a TV screen in the dash—or anywhere for that matter (screw the kids)—and, yes, that means nav and all those touch screen displays!
4. I want a car with a full-size spare tire—which also means you can keep those crappy run-flat tires!
5. I want a car with real leather seats and steering wheel, which my ZHP has!
6. I want a car where I can turn the electronic nannies off. If I want to wreck my car or kill myself, that’s my business!
7. Finally, and I can’t believe it’s coming to this, I WANT A CAR THAT NEEDS ME TO DRIVE IT!

So THERE! One saving grace of being mortal is that there's an end to having to put up with all the newfangled BS... ;)

[Fried_Chicken]

It sounds like your disagreements are based on emotion and not logic.

EDIT: I say that because it seems like you are disagreeing with things that you personally, do not like. To answer your question of what's going on, manufacturers are keeping with the times. People like shiny cars with new tech. Add on the fact that people are actually keeping older cars longer now, that's a pretty good incentive to throw anything and everything they can, within budget, at these modern cars.

It is, and it isn't. Saving fuel is great, but if it means an expensive repair bill because a cog in your 20-speed automatic transmission goes out, what are you saving? You're not saving CO2 output, especially if these points of failure reduce the life cycle of the car. Same thing with safety. Massive A-Pillars to prevent roll-over injuries can be avoided by seeing where you're going and what's coming.

HID, LED, and Laser headlights are idiotic. HID lights can literally kill you, and have several expensive points of failure. Laser headlights require rare-earth gems, and their longevity remains unknown.
LED lights are inferior to incandescent/halogen lights in every way except power consumption and longevity. That being said, incandescent and halogen lights are cheap to buy and replace, and are also ubiquitous. Break a single LED light, and you'll be out more than replacing all halogen/incandescent lights.

Manufacturers aren't keeping up with the times they are defining the times. All these items are ruthless money grabs, and Reasoned1 is absolutely right that the blame rests on the consumer. However, I disagree that nothing can or should be done about it. Proper education via journalism or schooling should (in a good market) keep the tide of BS in check. Imagine: simply reading a well written article in a car magazine saving you tens of thousands of dollars, what a bargain! Yet we've entered a weird age in our free market where this rational and direct thought process has been undercut by the business model of clicks and advertising. Actually, I know there is a large consumer base that longs for what basically amounts to an early 90s Mercedes (or e46 BMW) with useful improvements built in.

This is why I think something is wrong. The consumer demand is there, and the car industry should be bound by the rules of the free market, yet all developments are moving towards crap.

[Reasoned1]

You go, Fried Chicken! I'm right there with you, and will do my part... On the other hand, I do appreciate the vast improvements in reliability, rust prevention, and performance over the cars of yesteryear...

[KevinC]

I've been driving for 44 years, so I'm officially and old codger behind the wheel, and generally agree with your rant. I sorely miss my E86 M coupé, one of the last analog cars BMW produced, with the brilliant S54 engine, manual gearbox, no iDrive, etc. I also miss my Scirocco and Mk1 GTI, and my old VW bugs. I get it.

But I think your rant went a bit far, as not ALL modern advances are automatically bad, as you seem to infer. In particular, I have a problem with this one...


LED lights are inferior to incandescent/halogen lights in every way except power consumption and longevity. That being said, incandescent and halogen lights are cheap to buy and replace, and are also ubiquitous. Break a single LED light, and you'll be out more than replacing all halogen/incandescent lights.

Baloney.

HID lights are FAR superior to any halogen/incandescent light, period. Cheap to buy/replace? No. But they also RARELY fail, often lasting the life of the car. So that argument is moot. As for LED headlights, I have direct experience with them as the wife's new '17 Mazda3 has them, and they are nothing short of spectacular, far superior to even the xenons on my Golf R, which are great. The LEDs also should last the life of the car. Yes, if either becomes damaged, they are expensive to replace - but is that a valid reason to avoid/loathe a superior modern technology? Hell no, especially one that's directly safety-related.

44 years of driving and about 25 cars owned, and I've still never owned anything with an automatic transmission, and don't plan to. So my old codger card is stamped and validated! But I still appreciated *some* of the modern advances/conveniences.

[cakM3]

...
Unfortunately, days of reliability, simplicity, functionality and simply a good product as a car had gone.

I totally agree that car enthusiasts should get used to it and simply keep enjoining what they have and try to keep those cars alive.

Couldn’t have said it any better :thumbsup


Sent from my iPhone6S using Tapatalk Pro

[DeathTrap]

Transmissions going out is nothing new. It will simply get swapped out or rebuilt like any other transmission when the car is under warranty. By the time it's out of warranty, then it should be enough on the road that parts become plentiful. What I'm saying is parts have and will always be just parts. There will be enthusiast community out there for that particular vehicle and they will make it work, like they always have. Just look at the E46. It has a metric ton of computers, wiring, and a complex communication system, but no one really mentions it because it works in the background. An exploding expansion tank is much more likely to take out the car than a failed CAN bus system.

As far as safety...not everything can be avoided or detected by a person at every single moment. I am very appreciative of the advancements here.

An ignition system is just as likely to kill you as well. LEDs are much brighter per watt than halogen and are starting to surpass even xenon bulbs. The thing I don't like about the LED emitters in vehicles is that they are so tightly integrated into the headlight that you HAVE to replace the whole assembly. They could just make it so that when/if the emitter gets damaged you can just replace it like a normal bulb.

We, the enthusiasts, are a very small part of the market. So small that it's really not worth catering to our wants and desires unfortunately. We all know that the manufacturer doesn't care about us. They just care about our monies and what they can do to earn it.

I guess my main point is the advancement in vehicle technology will always be a "bad" thing depending on the generation you talk to. My only true gripe about modern cars is that they feel dead inside, they have no soul, they are simply just a product. I guess it is possible to have a car that is too refined? It takes the charisma out of it.

[Fried_Chicken]

I've been driving for 44 years, so I'm officially and old codger behind the wheel, and generally agree with your rant. I sorely miss my E86 M coupé, one of the last analog cars BMW produced, with the brilliant S54 engine, manual gearbox, no iDrive, etc. I also miss my Scirocco and Mk1 GTI, and my old VW bugs. I get it.

But I think your rant went a bit far, as not ALL modern advances are automatically bad, as you seem to infer. In particular, I have a problem with this one...



Baloney.

HID lights are FAR superior to any halogen/incandescent light, period. Cheap to buy/replace? No. But they also RARELY fail, often lasting the life of the car. So that argument is moot. As for LED headlights, I have direct experience with them as the wife's new '17 Mazda3 has them, and they are nothing short of spectacular, far superior to even the xenons on my Golf R, which are great. The LEDs also should last the life of the car. Yes, if either becomes damaged, they are expensive to replace - but is that a valid reason to avoid/loathe a superior modern technology? Hell no, especially one that's directly safety-related.

44 years of driving and about 25 cars owned, and I've still never owned anything with an automatic transmission, and don't plan to. So my old codger card is stamped and validated! But I still appreciated *some* of the modern advances/conveniences.


Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a luddite: I love technology, and I love the advancement of technology. It’s why I feel so disenchanted by the car industry.
Direct injection, rear-view cameras, radar guided cruise control, collision avoidance, bluetooth music, stability control (that can be disabled!), ABS, these are all relatively recent and huge. Not to mention the myriad of safety improvements. Good job car industry.


On HID lights, I stand by my point. New they are shiny, but how will they look in 10 years. We’re all familiar with the ZKW headlight projector problem, one that’s decidedly not limited to BMW, and poses a huge a safety risk as they become dim. Self-leveling and turning features are not limited to xenon bulbs, they can be done with halogens. I haven’t seen headlights better than our ’98 Volvo S90, with 4 dedicated bulbs. Incidentally that brings me to another item I forgot to add to my shitlist:
Plastic headlights as a replacement for glass. Glass is amazing, it doesn’t fade, crack under heat, get clouded by sand or UV rays; what an amazing substance. Too bad we have plastic in our ZHPs.

Halogen lights can be made just as bright as LED/Xenon/Laser. Just amp up the power, which is currently limited to 55W by regulators. I have a hard time believing it makes a real difference to fuel economy.
However, here’s the main problem I have with LED:
http://www.lightingschool.eu/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/spectral_responses2.png

They are blinding. Look at that blue spike, my retinas are burning just thinking about it. Also look how terrible the red side of the spectrum is (important for rain and fog!). Plus, to save energy they implement pulse-width-modulation. The Mercedes W220 S-Class uses LED lights for brakes b/c they are instant on, and can be seen very well. Good job them, they should have stayed there. Mercedes missed that memo, and instead diarrhea-ed LED lights everywhere: "The all-new S-Class, codenamed 'W222', is the first car in the world to use only LED for its interior as well as exterior lighting system.” source (http://autobuzz.my/2014/03/25/the-new-mercedes-benz-s-class-w222-has-arrived-in-malaysia/)

Safety is easy to sell, but hard to implement. I again have to point to our ’98 volvo which gives the driver almost motorcycle-like visibility. It may not fair super well in a rollover situation, or a side-impact, but I really do believe this is offset by proper visibility. Good luck testing that in a lab.

[DeathTrap]

On HID lights, I stand by my point. New they are shiny, but how will they look in 10 years. We’re all familiar with the ZKW headlight projector problem, one that’s decidedly not limited to BMW, and poses a huge a safety risk as they become dim. Self-leveling and turning features are not limited to xenon bulbs, they can be done with halogens. I haven’t seen headlights better than our ’98 Volvo S90, with 4 dedicated bulbs. Incidentally that brings me to another item I forgot to add to my shitlist:
Plastic headlights as a replacement for glass. Glass is amazing, it doesn’t fade, crack under heat, get clouded by sand or UV rays; what an amazing substance. Too bad we have plastic in our ZHPs.

S2000, Acura TL, Lexus LS, etc. projectors seem to be doing pretty well. Those are hot items in the HID retrofit community.


Halogen lights can be made just as bright as LED/Xenon/Laser. Just amp up the power, which is currently limited to 55W by regulators. I have a hard time believing it makes a real difference to fuel economy.

They can, but at what cost? A doubling in power does not equal a doubling in light intensity along with the other changes that have to be made in order to compensate for the increased power consumption. The other light technologies have more advantages when usable output is concerned mainly due to the way they emanate light.



However, here’s the main problem I have with LED:
http://www.lightingschool.eu/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/spectral_responses2.png

They are blinding. Look at that blue spike, my retinas are burning just thinking about it. Also look how terrible the red side of the spectrum is (important for rain and fog!). Plus, to save energy they implement pulse-width-modulation. The Mercedes W220 S-Class uses LED lights for brakes b/c they are instant on, and can be seen very well. Good job them, they should have stayed there. Mercedes missed that memo, and instead diarrhea-ed LED lights everywhere: "The all-new S-Class, codenamed 'W222', is the first car in the world to use only LED for its interior as well as exterior lighting system.” source (http://autobuzz.my/2014/03/25/the-new-mercedes-benz-s-class-w222-has-arrived-in-malaysia/)

You can't categorize all LEDs as "Cool White." The intensity and chromaticity of car headlights is regulated anyway. PWM allows for increased apparent brightness and reduced power consumption when compared with constant current control.



Safety is easy to sell, but hard to implement. I again have to point to our ’98 volvo which gives the driver almost motorcycle-like visibility. It may not fair super well in a rollover situation, or a side-impact, but I really do believe this is offset by proper visibility. Good luck testing that in a lab.

What happens when an oncoming drunk driver suddenly merges into your lane? Do you have time to react? Does everybody have the same reaction time?

[dpark]

I can see both sides of this discussion. I still have my 2004 ZHP and plan to keep it as long as possible. I have driven every 3 series since and none of them excite me enough to buy any of them. The are very fast but have no soul IMHO.

There is no feature these newer cars have that I care enough about. Mine has ABS, stability control and Bluetooth. All I need. But also being in the semiconductor and electronics industry and having all the major companies supplying all the tech in news cars as my customers, I can tell you there is no stopping this trend.

Electric cars are a necessity for humanity. Internal combustion engines are so bad for the planet especially with China and India becoming more modernized. I am not a tree hugger by any means but ICE just won't scale for 7 billion people.

Autonomous driving and shared vehicles will greatly reduce congestion and pollution around the world. All good things, except for those of us that live to drive. Paris had passed a law that no ICE cars will be allowed in the city after 2030. This will repeat all over the world. Maybe not in the US but in Europe and Asia it will be very likely.

Sorry to say, enjoy your ZHP as long as you can, but you can't stop the march of technology especially when it comes our cars.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Reasoned1]

You make a lot of sense but, with Yellowstone getting ready to blow, I wouldn’t hang my hat on electric vehicles.

[cakM3]

You make a lot of sense but, with Yellowstone getting ready to blow, I wouldn’t hang my hat on electric vehicles.

When this happens you won't have to worry about what you don't like about new cars.... there will be other more pressing things to worry about then...

[Reasoned1]

Granted.

[NYRhockey]

I test drove a '16 328 xi for a day last week. No thanks.

[John in VA]

I test drove a '16 328 xi for a day last week. No thanks.

After the E46 experience, you need to try the 2-series. The F30 is now the size of a E28 or E39 5er. In the sport mode it's not bad, but it's not an E46 dynamically.

[Sockethead]

We hated the F30 we had for 2 yrs... the engine and transmission were amazing but the rest of the car was numb and boring like any other mid sized sedan... and that stop start feature was annoying as hell. The starting ritual was press the start button and immediately press the off button for the start stop feature. I tried the eco mode for a whole 30 mile drive one time... it can be best described as "kill me now!"
Also, besides using the 6 station preset buttons on the infotainment, you had to look at either the display or the LCD between the two gauges to do anything with it. Using the scroll wheel on the steering wheel to go between presets was an exercise in futility... I found the system very dangerous... as bad, if not worse than texting and driving. A lot of times, I just ended up using my phone for music because it was so much easier

[derbo]

We hated the F30 we had for 2 yrs... the engine and transmission were amazing but the rest of the car was numb and boring like any other mid sized sedan... and that stop start feature was annoying as hell. The starting ritual was press the start button and immediately press the off button for the start stop feature. I tried the eco mode for a whole 30 mile drive one time... it can be best described as "kill me now!"
Also, besides using the 6 station preset buttons on the infotainment, you had to look at either the display or the LCD between the two gauges to do anything with it. Using the scroll wheel on the steering wheel to go between presets was an exercise in futility... I found the system very dangerous... as bad, if not worse than texting and driving. A lot of times, I just ended up using my phone for music because it was so much easier


Pretty sure the start/stop button can be coded to stay off with E-SYS. That would've saved a little grief.

[Reasoned1]

I test-drove a 2007 335 and, while it was nice and definitely faster than my E46’s, it did NOT have the same nimble feel and instantaneous responsiveness of my E46’s. Had to pass...

[az3579]

Since we're all still on the new car bashing, I will add this. If we want to talk about all the same points this thread is about, perhaps we should just say (as an example) that the E30 > E46 and call it a day. Same exact arguments can be made.

Lots of car enthusiasts think what they currently have is better than sliced bread... until they buy something else. It's human nature.

[holyc0w]

If we want to talk about all the same points this thread is about, perhaps we should just say (as an example) that the E30 > E46 and call it a day. Same exact arguments can be made.


I'm more of a Model T guy.

[Reasoned1]

I hear you, but that’s definitely not always true, or I wouldn’t be driving an E46. I think it’s even more human nature to want what’s better and newfangled.

[az3579]

I hear you, but that’s definitely not always true, or I wouldn’t be driving an E46. I think it’s even more human nature to want what’s better and newfangled.


I'm just saying that this argument about modern cars will constantly be brought up in discussions and does nothing productive. This thread does nothing productive but alienate those (such as myself) who like the new cars. It's getting old. I can start a thread about how much I hate crossovers, electric cars, and autonomous vehicles, but that wont change a darned thing. It's gonna happen and I have to get used to it, in the same way that all the stuff being discussed in this tread is going to happen. E46's won't last forever, people will have to buy a newer car at some point, so they might as well get used to it.

Please, let's just put our effort into something that matters, like bettering the cars we do have, or discussing ones we do ​want. A comment here and there, whatever, but a thread? Come on.

[cakM3]

...this argument about modern cars will constantly be brought up in discussions and does nothing productive. This thread does nothing productive but alienate those (such as myself) who like the new cars. It's getting old. I can start a thread about how much I hate crossovers, electric cars, and autonomous vehicles, but that wont change a darned thing. It's gonna happen and I have to get used to it, in the same way that all the stuff being discussed in this tread is going to happen. E46's won't last forever, people will have to buy a newer car at some point, so they might as well get used to it.

Please, let's just put our effort into something that matters, like bettering the cars we do have, or discussing ones we do ​want. A comment here and there, whatever, but a thread? Come on.

Couldn't agree with you more Botond. :thumbsup

[NYRhockey]

My "issue" with modern cars is that they can be fun but not look good, or vice versa, or don't come in manual transmission, which for me is basically a must in a sporty sedan. If the Audi S3, or even better, RS3, came in 6spd that would be my definite target car in the future. Damn you, Audi. Finding a newer car that does not look like it ate the Michelin man is also tricky.

[Reasoned1]

I agree about the inevitability of change, but talking about the pros and cons of new versus old cars seems a perfectly legitimate topic for an auto forum—particularly one dedicated to a vintage model. I hate to say it, but you’re sounding a little like a whiny millennial. :)

[slater]

My "issue" with modern cars is that they can be fun but not look good, or vice versa, or don't come in manual transmission, which for me is basically a must in a sporty sedan. If the Audi S3, or even better, RS3, came in 6spd that would be my definite target car in the future. Damn you, Audi. Finding a newer car that does not look like it ate the Michelin man is also tricky.

agreed on the vice-versa... they look good but aren't fun. and no manuals.

longterm, looks like i need to find me a low-mile 2011 M3 sedan and be prepared to have it forever. :) that or a 997 GT3... ;)

[Sockethead]

Oh they can be fun! That same F30 we took to the drag strip, put a JB1 on it and ran low to mid 13s. We were beating V8 mustangs and they were pretty pissed about that. The 8 speed transmission had a lot to do with it. the N26 married to the 8 speed is a pretty awesome combo

[Fried_Chicken]

I'm just saying that this argument about modern cars will constantly be brought up in discussions and does nothing productive. This thread does nothing productive but alienate those (such as myself) who like the new cars. It's getting old. I can start a thread about how much I hate crossovers, electric cars, and autonomous vehicles, but that wont change a darned thing. It's gonna happen and I have to get used to it, in the same way that all the stuff being discussed in this tread is going to happen. E46's won't last forever, people will have to buy a newer car at some point, so they might as well get used to it.

Please, let's just put our effort into something that matters, like bettering the cars we do have, or discussing ones we do ​want. A comment here and there, whatever, but a thread? Come on.

Don't resign yourself to a fate of shitty cars. A perfect free market means businesses live and die for the satiation of consumer demand.

The discussion we're having isn't mere whining. We do not live in a perfect market, and we never will. However right now a huge reason for this is the stupidity of the consumer that for the most part does not know what they are missing.

It's the hubris of the corporations to think anything they do is automatically right, and the crap that's happening now has taken a life of its own.
I've outlined what I want in a new car, I'm not alone, and I'm not a luddite hating on technological advances. Saying the electric car is overdue is quite literally the understatement of the century, and I'm cautiously excited about where it will go.

Also not all new cars are bad, but from the Germans at least, the newer greats seem to come almost as accidents (looking at you: BMW 1M).

I have every desire to go forward, as long as forward means better.

[cakM3]

agreed on the vice-versa... they look good but aren't fun. and no manuals.

longterm, looks like i need to find me a low-mile 2011 M3 sedan and be prepared to have it forever. :) that or a 997 GT3... ;)

I would go for the 997 myself Peter but then I'm biased ;)

[derbo]

agreed on the vice-versa... they look good but aren't fun. and no manuals.

longterm, looks like i need to find me a low-mile 2011 M3 sedan and be prepared to have it forever. :) that or a 997 GT3... ;)

I like that thought-process. :) Shame the 997.2 GT3RS prices are coming down anytime soon.

[san]

I like that thought-process. :) Shame the 997.2 GT3RS prices are coming down anytime soon.

I’m sure you meant “aren’t”? Lol

Don’t think the prices for the Porsche gt cars ever comes down. So I keep looking for 997.2 c2s, which I’m hoping I can own in a few years time...


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[derbo]

I’m sure you meant “aren’t”? Lol

Don’t think the prices for the Porsche gt cars ever comes down. So I keep looking for 997.2 c2s, which I’m hoping I can own in a few years time...


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Yes, sorry. I meant "aren't." :) Oops.

The whole porsche ordeal makes me not want to get one...cause I will never be able to afford it.

[johnrando]

I'm more of a Model T guy.Lmao

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[NYRhockey]

So thinking more about S3's, are 6MT conversions doable? with Audi's AWD system's it'd probably make it difficult or too expensive?