Turner 27/21 sway bar problems

[stephenkirsh]

So I ordered from Turner their 27/21 sway bar kit for E46 + their adjustable end links.

After messing around with it for nearly 2 hours myself, I gave up and decided to let my shop handle it. My shop is BMW only and is very familiar with the E36/E46 platforms.

They called me to say they couldn't install the bar at full soft, which is what I requested. They said there just isn't room to match the end link to the very far hole on the bar (the softest setting).

I got the car home and put it up on ramps and tried it myself. No luck. Took a bunch of pictures and sent them to Turner. They claim they've never encountered this issue, and that they've been selling these sway bars and end links together for 10+ years with no issues.

They're sending me replacement end links as a starter point. I'm pretty sure that won't solve the problem; my shop agreed. But it's a starting point.

Pics in next post.

[stephenkirsh]

The end link just won't swing far enough toward the front of the car to match up with the softest setting.

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Video link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjZdx4GAYTc

[slater]

weird. have you tried loosening and shifting the upper end link mounting bracket? i think there's a little bit of wiggle room there.

[nsk040]

Your car looks like an Auto...does that make anything at the back-end slightly different vs. a 6spd?

Looks like your endlinks are adjustable. Can you lengthen them a bit which would allow the bar to rotate slightly and maybe create the needed room?

[stephenkirsh]

Your car looks like an Auto...does that make anything at the back-end slightly different vs. a 6spd?

Looks like your endlinks are adjustable. Can you lengthen them a bit which would allow the bar to rotate slightly and maybe create the needed room?

Yes auto, but no difference in suspension.

We adjusted the end links through their entire length range to see if that would change anything, but it doesn't.

[stephenkirsh]

weird. have you tried loosening and shifting the upper end link mounting bracket? i think there's a little bit of wiggle room there.


No, it's so far off that I don't think that would do anything. However, when I get the new links from Turner, I'll give that a try.

[stephenkirsh]

Finally got end links from Turner. They look identical to the previous ones. Highly doubt that's the issue.

Gotta wait for shit to stop catching on fire around here before I try putting them on.

[derbo]

I do believe when I had UUC sway bars, I never was able to get it to the soft setting either. I was only able to do the middle hole or the stiffest.

[stephenkirsh]

Seems like a design flaw if these bars can be fully utilized.

[Sockethead]

I have a UUC bar and I think its on the softest setting or the middle... I try to check when I get home.

Also, the links don't have to be in the same hole on both sides, you can mix and match...

[stephenkirsh]

I'm aware of mixing end link hole elections. But I can only access 2 of 3 holes on each end of bar.

[Sockethead]

That sucks man, I wish I had a better answer for you...

[cornercarver]

Maybe you could buy new brackets/bushings and insert a 1/2" spacer between the bracket and the mounting flange? This would move the bar back 1/2" - maybe enough to reach that last hole. You'd have to fab a reinforcing plate to capture the bolt at the bottom of the new bracket (like the one pictured below.) Maybe more work than you want to deal with. You may just be stuck with the middle hole as the softest setting...although looking back at the photos it seems like the front of the bar is hitting your brake line...Not good.

FWIW - I just installed a Hotchkis rear bar last weekend. Their bar only has two adjustment holes, and the 'soft' hole is about where the middle hole is on your bar, just approximating things based on your photos. Did Turner send you the right bar? Can't believe they've never had this issue reported.

Brackets which come with the Hotchkis bar:

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Edit; One more photo... Front of bar was just short of the brake like (not visible.)

[stephenkirsh]

Yea I thought about a spacer or something. I don't know anybody or have any fabricating skills. So I don't know if I can do it.

Turner claims it's the correct bar. I'll try and measure it and send them measurements.

[i_b_bass]

Sounds disappointing, hope you find a good resolution.

FWIW - You may not actually be talking with someone from Turner Motorsports in Amesbury, MA. In mid 2016 they let go of all of their sales and sales support staff, keeping the race team and the service department in MA. Most likely the sales support person you're working with works in Ohio at ECS Tuning's location. I don't mean to speak ill of the team over at ECS, nor do I mean to suggest that they don't know what they're talking about, but it's not the same. If you haven't already, you might want to call up Turner's service department in Amesbury to see if they have any suggestions or installation tips. GL!

[stephenkirsh]

Got the new end links. Identical to old ones.

No change, good or bad.

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[stephenkirsh]

With suspension loaded, bar is touching parking brake line.


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[slater]

very weird. especially because this should be happening on every E46 with that rear bar!

did they just send you another set of links for free?

i'd take the old ones off your hands if you need a home for them. ;)

[stephenkirsh]

I have to RMA them.

[BMWCurves]

That's very strange. Nothing's bent on the sway bar or your car?

[stephenkirsh]

The bar measured up fine. I'll have to get official measurements from Turner. I placed it against the wall and took some measurements.

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Car looks fine to me. I've no reason to suspect it is bent or damaged. Old bar looked fine too.

[slater]

You didn’t install it upside down, right? :)


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[stephenkirsh]

You didn’t install it upside down, right? [emoji4]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No it wouldnt clear the diff upside down.

Keep in mind I've had a BMW shop try and install it and they had same problems.

[Sockethead]

Very strange... have to tried laying the old bar over or under the new bar to see if you can ID why it wont fit?

[stephenkirsh]

Yes. New bar is clearly slightly longer for the adjustment holes.

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[stephenkirsh]

Talked to Turner today.

They took my measurements and compared them to what they have in stock. My bar is correctly sized.

They talked to a tech who has worked in Turner's MA shop for 7+ years. He said he's only seen this issue twice and doesn't know what made those two cars different.

Turner offered to take products back for a full refund.

I think I'll just leave them as is. The rear bar is installed on the medium setting.

[sillieidiot]

Could it be that you have failing bushings somewhere on your rear end? That's sort of similar to what a customer I had experienced. We just replaced all the bushings in the subframe, rtab, etc and then it fit. I don't know which bushings did the trick though. Everything we replaced were in bad shape except the control arms lol

On my car I didn't have any problems installing the Turner bars. It was straight forward.

[stephenkirsh]

Not likely. The 2 cars that Turner had this issue with were in for a full suspension builds. Rear bar is one of the last things you install.

Oh my car, I've replaced RTAB and diff bushings. Subframe bushings are original but all look great. Even my old RTAB were in great condition. There's no change if the car is on stands or when the suspension is fully loaded on ramps.

[derbo]

Not likely. The 2 cars that Turner had this issue with were in for a full suspension builds. Rear bar is one of the last things you install.

Oh my car, I've replaced RTAB and diff bushings. Subframe bushings are original but all look great. Even my old RTAB were in great condition. There's no change if the car is on stands or when the suspension is fully loaded on ramps.

The only thing I can think of, is people don't use the full soft and they never heard any complaints because of that.

[stephenkirsh]

The guy I was working with had the set in his 330ci. Said it never was an issue.

*shrug* oh well

[sillieidiot]

The only thing I can think of, is people don't use the full soft and they never heard any complaints because of that.

Mines set to full soft. No problems here.

[sillieidiot]

Not likely. The 2 cars that Turner had this issue with were in for a full suspension builds. Rear bar is one of the last things you install.

Oh my car, I've replaced RTAB and diff bushings. Subframe bushings are original but all look great. Even my old RTAB were in great condition. There's no change if the car is on stands or when the suspension is fully loaded on ramps.

Yeah Iono. Did you already try swapping out the bars? I only read/saw about the end links. Or are they unwilling to do that? If you were closer, I'd offer to let you try mines. My car is barely going to move the rest of the year so it's not going to miss it lol

[09mageec]

Wow, it's been a LONG time since I have even been on this site.. However, this thread grabbed my attention today right away..

Things are not lining up, and there is no answer.. But I'm super questionable about other parts being worn out, or even "broken". I don't want to scare you, but do you know if you are suffering from a tearing Sub Frame?

-Cam

[stephenkirsh]

Yeah Iono. Did you already try swapping out the bars? I only read/saw about the end links. Or are they unwilling to do that? If you were closer, I'd offer to let you try mines. My car is barely going to move the rest of the year so it's not going to miss it lol

I did not specifically ask for that, but I measured my bar and it's the same measurements as ones in their warehouse. Doubt it's a bar issue.

[stephenkirsh]

Wow, it's been a LONG time since I have even been on this site.. However, this thread grabbed my attention today right away..

Things are not lining up, and there is no answer.. But I'm super questionable about other parts being worn out, or even "broken". I don't want to scare you, but do you know if you are suffering from a tearing Sub Frame?

-Cam

I've spent 10+ hours under the rear of the car now and have not seen any problems.

I doubt a torn sub frame spot would produce such perfectly even problems on both sides of my sway bar and not present any other problems anywhere else.

Also, I'm pretty sure the later year cars have less issues. Mine's an 05 model year.

[sillieidiot]

I did not specifically ask for that, but I measured my bar and it's the same measurements as ones in their warehouse. Doubt it's a bar issue.
Yeah I wouldn't rule it out until you actually try it. Who knows, maybe they didn't actually measure their bars and just said it was the same lol