Bilstein pss 10 spring noise/upper spring perch

[Asiah119]

I recently sent my car off for what I mistakenly thought was going to be a relatively short and simple suspension refresh. Pss 10 coil overs, a mix of delrin and solid bushings for the subframe and rear suspension, and the rear subframe reinforcements. I ended up buying a new diff because the original had worn through the hardened on the spider gear and ring and there was some poorly done repairs from damage to the right rear where the control arm connected. As well as replacing the front control arms and toe links. But that's beside the point.

I had my car in for adjustments and oil changes after driving for a few hundred miles. The right front spring had been making noise on major steering input and hard braking. When we pulled everything out the little plastic spacer bushings bullshit that came with the kit was already pretty chewed up by the spring. We put in thrust bearings on both sides to stop that. I'm still getting noise, less noise, bit still noise, on major low speed steering inputs and heavy braking. Do any of you have experience with this happening, what did you do to fix it?

Also, the guy who did the work fabricated upper spring perches for the front springs out of the old spring perches. With those, the max drop we can get, by taking off the lock ring and milling into the top adjustment ring holding pins is less than an inch from stock. I know not everyone is using bilsteins but it seems like I should be able to achieve more drop than that. I have camber/caster plates on the car and the modified stock spring perches. Modified perches are essentially these https://3a663eb0fef48c6d2d60-a88f8ebfcdb877ad223e888bfcb7f7ec.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.c om/129956_x800.jpg

[az3579]

Do any of you have experience with this happening, what did you do to fix it?


I can't say I had that problem with my PSS10's. Installation was a breeze and operation has been perfect since installation mid-last year. Sorry to hear you're having issues, and sorry I don't have any words of wisdom.

[Asiah119]

What did you use for upper spring perches?

[az3579]

What did you use for upper spring perches?

Stock...

[Asiah119]

Also, after putting thrust bearings on the front springs they're still creaky...

I'm not sure this is ever going to end.

[slater]

the PSS/PSS10 are designed to be used with the stock upper perches and stock top mounts. you should not need any kind of custom bearing setup.

if you're getting binding when turning the wheel, it sounds like you've got a bad bearing if your strut top mount. the springs should not be turning when you turn the wheel.

can you post a pic of how your strut/spring/top mount stack is assembled?

[Asiah119]

I'm going in for my follow up corner balance today, I'll snap a pic while I'm there.

The spring on the right was binding bad enough that it pretty much destroyed that little plastic bushing that goes between the spring and the perch within 500 miles. Bearings and everything else is brand new.

[slater]

It doesn't add up... to me, it sounds like something wasn't assembled correctly in the top mount stack.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Asiah119]

I'm not saying it's impossible that it was assembled incorrectly, but the guy who did the work has built full on conti and weather tech series race cars and fabricated cars from the ground up. He definitely knows his shit. The front springs even with thrust bearings still sound like they're binding up a little when I make big steering inputs at slow speed (right turns in city driving and parallel parking).

[slater]

It just sounds like something isn't assembled correctly. We really need to see the stack setup.

What kind of camber plates are you running?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Asiah119]

http://imgur.com/a/IwFKx and the camber plate are silver project/ (https://silverproject.eu/en/shop/bmw/camber-plates-e46-3d-2way-for-coilovers/)

[slater]

http://imgur.com/a/IwFKx and the camber plate are silver project/ (https://silverproject.eu/en/shop/bmw/camber-plates-e46-3d-2way-for-coilovers/)

gotcha. the issue looks like it's the bearing in the camber plate that is binding (probably from stress, poor lubrication, or poor quality - or all 3), which is why it's likely only happening to one side. these types of bearings are typically not meant to carry to the load of the car, which is why companies like GC use a separate "torrington" or needle bearing (like you've got under the spring) in the upper perch to handle the load and turning of the strut/spring assembly; the upper center spherical bearing is purely used for strut piston rod location and articulation.

if it were my car, i would remove the lower needle bearings, and replace the camber plates with the GC hybrid camber/caster plates (which is what i will be using soon).

GC hybrid plates:

https://groundcontrolstore.com/collections/e46/products/camber-caster-plate-hybrid-bmw-e46-pair


GC street plates (they also use needle bearings):

https://groundcontrolstore.com/collections/e46/products/bmw-e46-camber-caster-plate-street-pair

[Asiah119]

I'm really ready for this project to be over... Im also getting a, for lack of a better description, a metallic slapping sound on moderate bumps in the road. Guess I should pull the assembly apart and check for play in that bearing.

[slater]

I'm really ready for this project to be over... Im also getting a, for lack of a better description, a metallic slapping sound on moderate bumps in the road. Guess I should pull the assembly apart and check for play in that bearing.

yep, certainly sounds like it. i forgot to ask about noises - that all pretty much points to that being the issue.

[Asiah119]

I just, with the car running, had my fingers on the mounting bolt...whatever in the camber plate, I could feel the spring binding up, was definitely not happening at that bearing. The sound was definitely present on the left of the car too.

[slater]

I just, with the car running, had my fingers on the mounting bolt...whatever in the camber plate, I could feel the spring binding up, was definitely not happening at that bearing. The sound was definitely present on the left of the car too.

sorry, but i'm not understanding your post. could you please explain a little clearer?

if you watch the nut on the top of the strut piston shaft while someone else turns the wheel, the nut (and piston shaft) should move also. however, with those needle bearings you installed, it might not.

i hate to say it, but you really need to remove those needle bearings, and test. i'm guessing one of those camber plate bearings it toast.

[jason89i]

gotcha. the issue looks like it's the bearing in the camber plate that is binding (probably from stress, poor lubrication, or poor quality - or all 3), which is why it's likely only happening to one side. these types of bearings are typically not meant to carry to the load of the car, which is why companies like GC use a separate "torrington" or needle bearing (like you've got under the spring) in the upper perch to handle the load and turning of the strut/spring assembly; the upper center spherical bearing is purely used for strut piston rod location and articulation.

if it were my car, i would remove the lower needle bearings, and replace the camber plates with the GC hybrid camber/caster plates (which is what i will be using soon).

GC hybrid plates:

https://groundcontrolstore.com/collections/e46/products/camber-caster-plate-hybrid-bmw-e46-pair


GC street plates (they also use needle bearings):

https://groundcontrolstore.com/collections/e46/products/bmw-e46-camber-caster-plate-street-pair



Agree with all of this. I have had a few sets of pss10's.

1. Had them on a 993 that was experiencing the same spring bind. Culprit was the camber plates. Camber plates were from a very reputable company. Camber plate bearing was stiffer to roatate than the pss10 piston. This caused the strut piston to rotate in strut assembly, thus causing spring bind. New bearing, silicone lube, all fixed.

2. Put them on my zhp with new oe bearing mounts. No issues. (i did over-torque the knuckle that caused the pss10 to bind internally. Re-torqued, zero problems after 60k miles. )

Needle bearings for the springs are needed ONLY if the camber plates have a single bearing. Be cautious as the needle bearings need to be protected from the elements.... like with a shock boot. They will attract a lot of dust and grime (causing knotchy steering) on a street car.

Best to get camber plates that allow for spring rotation. Cheers, Jason