School me on Coilovers

[downshift]

Alright guys,

I know there is helpful info here on different coilover systems, but I want to hear what YOU run, what ARB, what bushings, your driving style and how you got where you are. And, of course, if you are happy with where you are...

Hoping to get some helpful responses. I don't want to spend the money on MCS and am considering KW V2/V3, PSS10 and a few others.

Thanks,
Josh

[danewilson77]

Daily driver.

KWV1 - bottomed out.

Moderate (not overly aggressive) driving style

Typically Lemforder bushings though I run ECSTuning Rough Road Kit (RRK) on rear, and TMS RRK on front.

Very happy

How she sits:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170420/4ccd64223f187290533324765c1bacdb.jpg

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S8+

[NoVAphotog]

29722

Bilstein PSS. Didn't feel like spending the money for PSS10's. No reason for moderate weekend driving. These are a great balance, not too stiff, not too soft. Performed great at the track and are comfortable riding around town. I've got no problem with them. Plus they are height adjustable, not that I've played with that at all since setting a little bit below stock.

Z4M Front control arm bushing's. Honestly, no opinion there. Get them if you feel like it and maybe they are "more durable." I didn't notice anything, but then again my originals were in good shape. Definitely get the Rogue engineering rear shock mounts and BMW reinforcement plates regardless of whichever kit you end up with. Those are a must.

[sillieidiot]

Ok i'm taking dane's format lol

DD currently only.

AST 4100s w/ 550 front/650 rear Hyperco springs & Vorshlag camber plates

Hmm for the most part just normal nowadays. I have to protect my tires lol But I am definitely spirited when I have the chance.

All bushings are OE, but those will get replaced sometime in the second half of the year. Have reinforcement plates in the front, RE RSMs in the rear

I was pretty happy with the ride quality and everything before I ended up with the sways. On smooth roads, track days, I could run higher rebound. Everywhere else just normal. But I have since gotten Turner sways which messed everything up ride quality wise lol Along with my bad alignment (my fault), currently unhappy lol I also find that I need more adjustment so a 2-way or 3-way will be the next upgrade. Performance wise, it's good.

How she sits:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v117/sillieidiot/Serenity/Build%20Thread/15064160968_9f255c3fc9_o_zpsbcb042a2.jpg

Apparently i don't have current pictures of my car on the ground without stuff in the way :facepalm

[danewilson77]

Ok i'm taking dane's format lol

DD currently only.

AST 4100s w/ 550 front/650 rear Hyperco springs & Vorshlag camber plates

Hmm for the most part just normal nowadays. I have to protect my tires lol But I am definitely spirited when I have the chance.

All bushings are OE, but those will get replaced sometime in the second half of the year. Have reinforcement plates in the front, RE RSMs in the rear

I was pretty happy with the ride quality and everything before I ended up with the sways. On smooth roads, track days, I could run higher rebound. Everywhere else just normal. But I have since gotten Turner sways which messed everything up ride quality wise lol Along with my bad alignment (my fault), currently unhappy lol I also find that I need more adjustment so a 2-way or 3-way will be the next upgrade. Performance wise, it's good.

How she sits:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v117/sillieidiot/Serenity/Build%20Thread/15064160968_9f255c3fc9_o_zpsbcb042a2.jpg

Apparently i don't have current pictures of my car on the ground without stuff in the way :facepalm
:drool

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S8+

[cakM3]

ZHP - daily driver

Moderate (occasional) and cruising driving style
OE bushings, Powerflex RTABs and OEM M3 rear shock mounts
BC Racing coilovers (8k linear springs front and 12k S barrel springs rear) - going to be upgrading to Swift Springs

https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3763/33025501045_c41cad4ead_k.jpg


M3 - weekend toy

Moderate (occasional) and cruising driving style
OE bushings but will be refreshing with Powerflex busings
BC Racing coilovers (14k using extreme lowering coils in front and 12k S barrel springs rear)

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/614/33025532685_2d47c35295_b.jpg

No complaints on ride quality of my BMWs although BP has commented a few times how stiff my cars are set up....

[slater]

Alright guys,

I know there is helpful info here on different coilover systems, but I want to hear what YOU run, what ARB, what bushings, your driving style and how you got where you are. And, of course, if you are happy with where you are...

Hoping to get some helpful responses. I don't want to spend the money on MCS and am considering KW V2/V3, PSS10 and a few others.

Thanks,
Josh

use: DD'ing/CC'ing (Corner Carving ;))

coilovers: bilstein PSS

ARB: OEM M3 front (26mm), OEM 330CiC rear (20mm); poly bushings for both

other bits: OEM FSMs, AKG FCABs, AKG RSFMs, rogue RSMs, OEM inner RCABs, OEM M3 outer RCABs, bimmerworld sealed spherical RTABs


overall impressions

i am super picky about how my car feels and i am always after that 'perfect compromise' of comfy enough for family hauling and also being able to have it respond how i want... and potential track days. i also have been modifying suspensions on cars - and learning - for 18 years now. so even though car platforms underneath me change, i know generally what i want from a car after driving it and studying its suspension design, and how i will go about achieving it before i start acquiring parts.

my setup now is very close to how i want the car to behave. i have other stuff to enhance driving feel (M3 engine mounts, UUC black trans mounts, ECS poly diff mounts, upgraded/slop-reduced shift linkage), but suspension-wise it's very close. the car rotates when i want it to and is very predictable. fresh bushings always help, but i think the bimmerworld sealed spherical RTABs and the all-M3 outer RCABs really help get the power down and keep the rear end feeling stable, especially when applying power at corner entry or mid-corner.

i have a very different alignment spec: -1.5º camber in the front, and -0.75º camber in the rear; toe is stock. as i move everything over to my Touring, this is an area i want to improve as i feel the rear camber is too little as i can very easily get lift-throttle oversteer - i will try going to -1.8º, which is much closer to factory spec. front camber is fantastic for corner entry, there is much more grip but for DD use (and... i run 245's up front currently), the on-center feel is not great, even a hair too twitchy for me. i will likely try dialing it back to -1.2º.

finally, as for the bilstein PSS - i love the damping. they are super quick to react and are actually OK for daily use - my wife drives the car and does not complain about them! one area i do have a complaint - i don't like the progressive-rate springs, or the front-to-rear rate choice - i feel the rear springs are too soft, and the fronts perhaps a little too stiff. also, i just don't like progressive-rate spring feel in general, the transient response from straight-line to turn-in/corner entry can feel can a little weird - it's hard to describe, but i just like the predictability of linear-rate springs (like the OEM front springs). in fact, the transient response of the stock sport springs is very good - so i will likely be finding some linear-rate springs to add to my bilstein PSS, as well as using the ground control weight jacks in the rear for optimal rear spring articulation....plus they allow super-easy height changes. speaking of height, that's my other beef with the bilstein PSS - the fronts do not go high enough for my liking. i have mine at max front height, and they are basically as low as i would ever want to run them - this is a byproduct of the progressive-rate front spring. moving to a linear spring should allow me to get a bit more height out of them.


to sum all of this up - i love my setup. a local forum member drove my car last summer and said "this is how i want my car to feel" - that made me so happy, because i put a lot of thought into how i setup my cars, and overall i am really happy with it.

but, if you can - find some local forum members with aftermarket stuff and ask to drive their cars. 'good suspension' is a very subjective thing - lots of folks like a different feel. and sometimes you need to experiment to find out what works for you.

whew. sorry for the essay. :) hope that helps!

[Sockethead]

KW V2 on the wife's 135. Great setup and great spring rate. Good balance between street/track and the shocks are adjustable. As it sits now, they are great for the street not too stiff or jarring over bumps.
The finish has held up very well over the 5 years they've been on the car. Had to have 1 rebuilt but warranty took care of that
If I was going to coilovers on my ZHP, I would definitely consider these

[BADCLOWN]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a121/blkvr6pwr/C5C58D7F-89F9-40E3-8C1B-DC781074A41D_zpsmmxshlnm.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/blkvr6pwr/media/C5C58D7F-89F9-40E3-8C1B-DC781074A41D_zpsmmxshlnm.jpg.html)

Ground control coilovers with koni shocks and custom eibach springs


Not bottomed out in the front or the rear and some would consider this "low". It handles VERY well, planted in corners, and for being "low" rides very well. I recommend not skimping out on suspension and getting something with adjustable koni or bilstein shocks. Spring rate matters too, if your coilovers have an option for a "swift spring" upgrade, do it. Absolutely can't go wrong with a KW or Bilstein PSS system, but again, get something adjustable.

[BMWCurves]

but, if you can - find some local forum members with aftermarket stuff and ask to drive their cars. 'good suspension' is a very subjective thing - lots of folks like a different feel. and sometimes you need to experiment to find out what works for you.

This. The guy my father bought his ZHP from thought the stock suspension was too firm. I think his is a notch or two softer than mine on Koni Yellows (sorry, not coilovers), and I think mine is comfortable. One of my friends thinks my suspension is very stiff, all of my others think it's quite comfortable.

[704sw]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a121/blkvr6pwr/C5C58D7F-89F9-40E3-8C1B-DC781074A41D_zpsmmxshlnm.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/blkvr6pwr/media/C5C58D7F-89F9-40E3-8C1B-DC781074A41D_zpsmmxshlnm.jpg.html)
Oh my, this looks bad ass.

[derbo]

Use: Track/Weekend

Coilovers: Ground Control Coilovers w/ Swift 448/560 springs GC Camber plates

Bushings: OE Z4M FCAB, OE Z4M RTAB, OE M3 Motor Mounts, Turner RTAB Limiters, RE Engineering Tranmission Mounts, OE Diff mounts, BMW Subframe Foam filled.



http://i.imgur.com/uGMcOWe.jpg

Impressions:
It's too soft for track setup but it also is really the dampening that needs to be fix. If I had the money, I would buy MCS from Wyatt here. He works at MCS and made me jealous of his 3-way MCS dampeners.

[slater]

derek, are you running off-the-shelf yellows or are they GC 'spec' (i am suspect about this)?

you should try the BW RTABs and some form of stiffer diff mounts. you'd be amazed at the power transfer.

[downshift]

Thanks for all the super helpful responses, guys!

I'm definitely leaning toward PSS10 or KW V2.

Am I correct in saying the PSS10 has both rebound and compression adjustment, but they are not independent, where the KW V2 only has rebound adjustment?

Are there any suppliers who offer a spring replacement to Swift or other brands, or would these need to be purchased separately?

Josh

[ELCID86]

Just be warned on the design of the KWs. The little hex key screws that hold the adjustment rings in place can get gradue in them and bind. I bought a used set (v1?) and could not get them loose-after trying everything we could think of. Perhaps ones with two rings that keep each other in check is a better design. :dunno

[downshift]

Just be warned on the design of the KWs. The little hex key screws that hold the adjustment rings in place can get gradue in them and bind. I bought a used set (v1?) and could not get them loose-after trying everything we could think of. Perhaps ones with two rings that keep each other in check is a better design. :dunno

It is an unbelievably poor design decision and as an engineer it may keep me from buying them, just wondering what other details they glossed over without much thought.

Thanks for the input.

[sillieidiot]

Thanks for all the super helpful responses, guys!

I'm definitely leaning toward PSS10 or KW V2.

Am I correct in saying the PSS10 has both rebound and compression adjustment, but they are not independent, where the KW V2 only has rebound adjustment?

Are there any suppliers who offer a spring replacement to Swift or other brands, or would these need to be purchased separately?

Josh

Yeah for the most part. I personally think the PSS10 is more comfortable than the KW V2s.

Why do you need to replace the springs? Normally if you do, you would want to replace whatever springs with Swift or Hyperco.


Just be warned on the design of the KWs. The little hex key screws that hold the adjustment rings in place can get gradue in them and bind. I bought a used set (v1?) and could not get them loose-after trying everything we could think of. Perhaps ones with two rings that keep each other in check is a better design. :dunno

I actually prefer the single ring with the hex. You don't need to tighten them excessively and you only need 1 wrench (or none at all) when you're doing the adjustments. But what I don't like about the KWs is that they use plastic collars so the screws tend to strip the threads and make them bind. Though the reason for the plastic collars was so that they are more resistant to the weather which makes sense. I hate the two collar rings solution. Especially if you lose one of your wrenches lol

[Vas]

Look into Fortune Auto coilovers.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Sockethead]

All you have to do on the KW to keep the hex key from seizing is, before installing, take it out, put a little anti-seize compound on it and reassemble. Simple solution ;)

[ELCID86]

All you have to do on the KW to keep the hex key from seizing is, before installing, take it out, put a little anti-seize compound on it and reassemble. Simple solution ;)

I'd definitely recommend this and perhaps backing the set screw out periodically to ensure it doesn't get too comfortable in that tight little hole.

[downshift]

Thanks for the input, guys.


Look into Fortune Auto coilovers.

I've contacted them and might give them a try. Pretty cool looking website, hopefully all their claims translate into real performance.

Thanks

[Vas]

Thanks for the input, guys.



I've contacted them and might give them a try. Pretty cool looking website, hopefully all their claims translate into real performance.

Thanks
Hand built suspension.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[///Mvious]

Great thread...I will be referencing this when I'm upgrading! My last track outing emphasized that I'll need to tweak my setup, as my car really pushesh...granted, I don't have camber plates (need those up front at least), and I was running 225s up front and 245s rear (stock sport wheels & sizes). I'll be going for 245s or 255s square! Maybe some stiffer sway bars.


Look into Fortune Auto coilovers.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
First time seeing these...looks like a great option especially for the price...would be curious to hear if anyone runs these.

My Setup: PSS9s - I believe I'm at their lowest setting if not, very close...I guess doesn't make an appearance difference, but I'm running Purple Powerflex FCABS, Powerflex poly subframe and diff bushings, Meyle HD front control arms, Z4 RTABS with limiters...RD Sport sway bars.

Driving style - on the street, I will enjoy a turn if the conditions are right...I've tracked it twice
I'm reasonably happy with it, I prefer the street ride of the stock ZHP suspension...would like to upgrade for better track performance.

2976229763

[downshift]

leaning towards Fortune Auto

[Bludsport]

Alright guys,

I know there is helpful info here on different coilover systems, but I want to hear what YOU run, what ARB, what bushings, your driving style and how you got where you are. And, of course, if you are happy with where you are...

Hoping to get some helpful responses. I don't want to spend the money on MCS and am considering KW V2/V3, PSS10 and a few others.

Thanks,
Josh

I just finalized my suspension refresh and upgrade today with the installation of a new front sway bar. Overall, I'm extremely pleased with how the car feels and handles now compared to what it used to. However, and in hind sight, I regret trying to save a few bucks by installing AST's non-adjustable 2000 series coilovers. For $1,300 it's a fine set up for cruising and some semi-spirited driving, but if I had it to do over again, I'd gladly cough up the extra dough on a more high end setup that offers both compression and rebound adjustments, as well and one that offers coilovers for all four corners, not just the front like most aftermarket setups for the E46. Had I done more research before pulling the trigger on the AST's, I would have gone with either JRZ or TC Kline. Maybe later, but for now I did save enough by going with the AST's to afford a new set of wheels and tires!

My civilian driving style is pretty tame. I hate speeding tickets and I only really let go on isolated stretches of road where no one else is around. I save the aggressive stuff for track days.

Other than the OEM stuff I replaced, my current setup includes the following upgrades:



AST front coilovers and AST rear springs and shocks
OEM front strut reinforcement plates
Vorschlag caster camber plates (on order)
Ground Control front sway bar and adjustable end links
Ground Control rear shock mounts
Rogue Engineering press in aluminum sleeved FCAB's (black)
Rogue Engineering rear TAB's (black)
SPL Adjustable rear lower control arms (on order)

[downshift]

I just finalized my suspension refresh and upgrade today with the installation of a new front sway bar. Overall, I'm extremely pleased with how the car feels and handles now compared to what it used to. However, and in hind sight, I regret trying to save a few bucks by installing AST's non-adjustable 2000 series coilovers. For $1,300 it's a fine set up for cruising and some semi-spirited driving, but if I had it to do over again, I'd gladly cough up the extra dough on a more high end setup that offers both compression and rebound adjustments, as well and one that offers coilovers for all four corners, not just the front like most aftermarket setups for the E46. Had I done more research before pulling the trigger on the AST's, I would have gone with either JRZ or TC Kline. Maybe later, but for now I did save enough by going with the AST's to afford a new set of wheels and tires!

My civilian driving style is pretty tame. I hate speeding tickets and I only really let go on isolated stretches of road where no one else is around. I save the aggressive stuff for track days.

Other than the OEM stuff I replaced, my current setup includes the following upgrades:



AST front coilovers and AST rear springs and shocks
OEM front strut reinforcement plates
Vorschlag caster camber plates (on order)
Ground Control front sway bar and adjustable end links
Ground Control rear shock mounts
Rogue Engineering press in aluminum sleeved FCAB's (black)
Rogue Engineering rear TAB's (black)
SPL Adjustable rear lower control arms (on order)


Nice!

I finally decided on my setup and pulled the trigger.

Regarding Fortune Auto, I have heard awful things left and right equating them with cheap Chinese manufactured coilovers. They have great marketing, and they almost got me, but I think it's all smoke and mirrors.

I ended up going with AKG red 75d bushings at engine, trans, diff, subframe, and RTAB, and ground control FCAB. New control arms from Lemforder, Ground control race mounts for rear shock mounts and front camber plates, 600lb/700lb Eibach 6" springs, rear weight jack (adjust ride height without uninstalling anything) and MCS two-way dampers.

Tire setup will be 255/40-17 RE-71R that I have currently.

[slater]

Very cool about the GC weight jacks... I have a set of rogue ones that I will be installing soon. They help with spring articulation, and the height adjustment but is a sweet side benefit!


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