E46 330ci ZHP vs E92 328i

[Typhoon707]

Hi all,
I am deciding between a 2005 ZHP coupe and a 2011 E92 328i coupe (both automatic). For my price range, the 2011 E92 I can get does not have any M-tech things, nor does it have sports seats.

Mechanically speaking, which car would perform better? Which would have a lower cost of maintenance? The ZHP in question seems to have everything that wears easily recently replaced, such as the cooling system and etc. The infotainment system on the ZHP has also been modernized and is now up to "modern standards". The ZHP does however have 157,000 miles, while the E92 only has around 57K.

The ZHP basically has everything I'm looking for other than a heated steering wheel (which the E92 in question does have). As for the E92, I was thinking that maybe I could upgrade the seats down the line.

I am inexperienced mechanically and will not be doing any of the maintenance work myself.

Which would you guys recommend? (Sorry if this kind of post isn't allowed on this forum and/or this topic has been covered previously. I've been unable to find similar discussions started within the last few years and most comparisons are between the 330ci and the E92 335.)

Thanks in advance!!

[fredo]

I had an 06 330i, which I believe shares the same engine with the 328i you described. It was very dependable, i sold it to my father in law at 92,000 miles and he still owns it.

I say go with the 328i : newer and less miles. You will save on the long term on unexpected repairs. GL on your decision.

Edit: to prove my point. I'm not a DIY guy, I go to my Indy for everything. I'm picking up the ZHP this afternoon (oil change, oil pan seal, fuel pump, fan blower, ignition switch). My total is close to $2,000. Ouch !

[slater]

the ZHP will be the better all-rounder and 'driver', for sure. however, at 157K miles it's surely much cheaper than the 2011 328i with only 57K?

[Typhoon707]

Basically the ZHP is from one of the members on this forum and has a really complete maintenance history for the recent ~5years(?) while the E92 is unfortunately from a dealership with no maintenance history whatsoever.


I had an 06 330i, which I believe shares the same engine with the 328i you described. It was very dependable, i sold it to my father in law at 92,000 miles and he still owns it.

I say go with the 328i : newer and less miles. You will save on the long term on unexpected repairs. GL on your decision.

Edit: to prove my point. I'm not a DIY guy, I go to my Indy for everything. I'm picking up the ZHP this afternoon (oil change, oil pan seal, fuel pump, fan blower, ignition switch). My total is close to $2,000. Ouch !

I guess one of my biggest questions would be: are the chances of having unexpected repairs high on a ZHP if the previous owner has done a good job maintaining the vehicle, done a lot of preventative maintenance, and replaced many prone to fail parts? I know it is a 12 year old vehicle...so does that mean it would have some quirks and prone to fail parts regardless?

As for the E92, I'd choose it but then it doesn't have the sports seats or the M-tech things which is disappointing. I've also read that a battery change costs something like $400 USD because the dealer would have to recode it and stuff. Although I won't be doing any DIY, would the lower failure rate of the newer e92 be offset by the cost of each individual repair?


the ZHP will be the better all-rounder and 'driver', for sure. however, at 157K miles it's surely much cheaper than the 2011 328i with only 57K?

The ZHP does cost less, and you could say it costs quite a bit less since the difference between both vehicles while isn't numerically too drastic, it does however constitute quite a portion of the base price of both vehicles (percentage wise) <--sorry if this made no sense haha.

So you would say the ZHP is more fun to drive then? How different does each car's engine feel in reality? I've only test driven the E92 335xi, but decided against it due to the cost of maintaining the turbos, HPFP etc.


Thanks for all the replies so far!

[az3579]

In my opinion, an E92 328i without any kind of sport package or neat options is a waste of time and a total snoozefest. Get the ZHP.
Cheaper to buy, maintain, and way more fun to drive.

[John in VA]

I am inexperienced mechanically and will not be doing any of the maintenance work myself.
In either case, hopefully you have a good job to be able to afford the repairs! Or you'll be learning to work on it if you're willing to learn.
I was looking at the newest Consumer Reports car edition last night - the E9x reliability marks don't look great, and the 2008 - 2011 3-series made their Worst Used Cars list, if it matters.

[Lorenzo]

Get the ZHP. Has more soul. And lots of folks on this forum to provide advice on maintenance and repairs.

[BMWM3186]

The e92 might have less problems in the long run but the problems are more expensive to fix when they come up (maybe not I've never owned one). With the e46 almost everything is easier to fix and a water pump does not cost $400. I'm also pretty sure a valve cover gasket is like a 6 hour job on the n52. These are just some examples of commonly replaced items. I recently drive a 2011 328 touring automatic and it was pretty nice but I didn't think the automatic in that was much better than the one the e46s came with.

[Typhoon707]

In either case, hopefully you have a good job to be able to afford the repairs! Or you'll be learning to work on it if you're willing to learn.
I was looking at the newest Consumer Reports car edition last night - the E9x reliability marks don't look great, and the 2008 - 2011 3-series made their Worst Used Cars list, if it matters.

Oh that is horrible, but do you know if it was specifically referring to the 328 or was it a combination of 328 and 335?


In my opinion, an E92 328i without any kind of sport package or neat options is a waste of time and a total snoozefest. Get the ZHP.
Cheaper to buy, maintain, and way more fun to drive.


Get the ZHP. Has more soul. And lots of folks on this forum to provide advice on maintenance and repairs.

Yeah these are the reasons why I'm leaning a bit more towards the ZHP than the E92. Does anyone think the ZHP looks kind of dated in 2017? (Don't get me wrong, I really like its looks, hence why I'm considering getting one).


The e92 might have less problems in the long run but the problems are more expensive to fix when they come up (maybe not I've never owned one). With the e46 almost everything is easier to fix and a water pump does not cost $400. I'm also pretty sure a valve cover gasket is like a 6 hour job on the n52. These are just some examples of commonly replaced items. I recently drive a 2011 328 touring automatic and it was pretty nice but I didn't think the automatic in that was much better than the one the e46s came with.

I plan to own this vehicle for at least 3 years (might be moving out of the country after that), so within this span of time, do you think the e92's more expensive problems could outweigh the more frequent but cheaper problems of the ZHP in terms of costs? 6 hours for the N52...what about for the M54? Also, what do you think the resale value of the ZHP would be after 3 years?



What kind of problems should I be expecting from the ZHP if most of the failure prone parts have been fixed/replaced?

Thanks again!

[Oli77]

This is a great question and a stimulating thread.

Here is one data point for you to consider when you think about your finances. I have spent $1000 per year since purchasing my car 7 years ago and I do quite a bit of the work myself. Given your scenario, you will likely spend more to maintain the car in enjoyable-to-drive shape.

On a 57K car from 2011 I believe you will pay less initially (as less stuff will break down). But then, I don't know. Some of the stuff mentioned above about the Consumer Reports should be a key part of your calculation. You should cruise over to another bmw forum that has e9x discussions.

About the driving feeling, engine performance etc.. sorry can't help.

Good luck.

[Oli77]

Does anyone think the ZHP looks kind of dated in 2017?

Sorry I missed this one.


NO!

[BMWM3186]

In either case, hopefully you have a good job to be able to afford the repairs! Or you'll be learning to work on it if you're willing to learn.
I was looking at the newest Consumer Reports car edition last night - the E9x reliability marks don't look great, and the 2008 - 2011 3-series made their Worst Used Cars list, if it matters.
Don't know where you read that I've heard the e9x 328 was always regarded as very reliable. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=815074

[BMWM3186]

I plan to own this vehicle for at least 3 years (might be moving out of the country after that), so within this span of time, do you think the e92's more expensive problems could outweigh the more frequent but cheaper problems of the ZHP in terms of costs? 6 hours for the N52...what about for the M54? Also, what do you think the resale value of the ZHP would be after 3 years?



What kind of problems should I be expecting from the ZHP if most of the failure prone parts have been fixed/replaced?

Thanks again! you will probably lose more money on depreciation with the e92 with it being lower mileage and newer its on a higher depreciation slope than the Zhp. I can't tell you what problems you might run into with the Zhp without more info. If most of the problems have been addressed you might not have any issues for awhile. with the e92 you might have to replace the water pump/thermostat and some oil leaks since at that mileage that stuff Probably hasn't been addressed already. I'd personally buy the Zhp as it's probably a lot less expensive than the e92 and you make it sound like it's been taken care of.

[John in VA]

Don't know where you read that I've heard the e9x 328 was always regarded as very reliable. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=815074

That article refers to the 2009, in 2013. OP is considering a 2011, in 2017.


I was looking at the newest Consumer Reports car edition last night - the E9x reliability marks don't look great, and the 2008 - 2011 3-series made their Worst Used Cars list, if it matters. April 2017 annual auto issue, page 51

[holyc0w]

Personally, the 328i would need a sport package to make me consider it. Also, I would probably be looking at the 2006 330i, since it has slightly more power and it didn't have direct injection.

[BCS_ZHP]

Look in the mirror, be honest with yourself, are you an enthusiast or a guy who wants to own/drive a BMW. If the former, inexperience in working on the car will quickly pass as you'll love the car and learn to work on it as a natural growth of your passion. If the latter, and you're planning to sell the car in 3 years, think about this from a financial equation perspective, purchase vs sell cost with estimated costs to repair maintain the car. Or you could be the latter who is converted to the former by the car, a BMW can do that.

The ZHP is 12 years old and 157K miles. Even if maintained well, you will need to be attuned to the car and attentive to its needs. It's 12 years old and will grow to 15 years old before you sell it, rubber parts are starting to age ungracefully, plastic getting brittle, you will need to watch out for things before they become "gotchas". Are you ready for unexpected maintenance or do you value predictable maintenance more? And how much will you drive it in those 3 years, if 12K per year you'll be trying to sell a 15 year old 200K mile car.

The 328 is 6 years old, 100K less miles, hopefully at least minimally maintained per BMW's standards which are kind of lacking but should be okay at that low miles. Rubber and plastic should not dry rot in the first 10 years, no attention required there. Should only need normal maintenance for the first 100K miles, will you drive 43K in your 3 years of ownership. At resale time, I believe a 9 year old car with under 100K will be easier to sell than a 15 year old 200K car because you can sell a 9 year old to a normal person but really need to find an enthusiast to sell a 15 year old BMW with higher miles.

I'd say buy the 328, drive it for a year try to love it, if the enthusiast bug bites you, you'll know. And if that happens, sell the 328 for minimal loss and find a proper zhp to enjoy for the 2 years before you move out of the country. And if the enthusiast bug doesn't infect you, continue to drive the 328 for 2 more years before you move.

[fredo]

Another factor to consider: how picky you are. I spent more than 6 grand on the ZHP in 2 years. Probably only 2 things were really needed: rear tires and expansion tank. Everything else has been cosmetic (bumper grille, a - c pillars, fog lamps, turn signals, headlamp lenses, silver cube trim) and parts that could wait a little longer, but I decided to replace sooner than later (fuel pump, oil pan seal, P/S hoses, trunk struts, fan blower, brake fluid, windshield washer pump).

After today I don't plan to spend money on it for one year. Time will tell.

Edit : Bruce provides solid advise. I bought my first BMW back in 2004. It was the e36 325i. 13 years later, I have owned : e46, e90, ZHP, Mini. And my wife got an X3 last year (but I didn't push her). I started as a guy that wanted to own a BMW and slowly transformed into an enthusiast.

[BMWM3186]

That article refers to the 2009, in 2013. OP is considering a 2011, in 2017.
2009 shouldn't be much different from 2011. If anything the 2011 should have the edge it's the same car.

[Typhoon707]

Let me just say how amazed I am with the amount of good responses I've gotten on this forum! Honestly wasn't expecting it.

I think I will drive less than 3000 miles a year...does that change things up? I've asked a similar question regarding 335s on another forum and there was this one individual who stated that at this low of an annual mileage, I might not even run into some of the high failure issues of the 335 (HPFP, turbos, etc). Would that be the case with the ZHP and E92 328i?

I would like to be able to do my own DIY work, but I'm not too sure my schedule allows so and mainly I do not have a garage, merely a parking space. I don't know how you guys do it, but is there a place where it is acceptable to work on your cars? I'm not sure about my parking space, but a lot of parking spaces don't allow you to work on your cars there.

As for the rubber not aging gracefully...are there a lot of rubber in the engine? (See? I have clueless! haha.) If by rubber you refer to seals and stuff on the body of the vehicle, that should not be too expensive of a fix and a replacement seal should last quite long right? If I replace ALL the rubber seals within the engine, would that be very costly and require taking the engine apart? You are probably right about the selling vehicle part, even if I don't put on any miles, it won't be easy a 05 car with 157,000 miles to someone who has not done basic research on the model type. However, because I won't be putting on much miles, the situation isn't as bad...?

I've always had buyers regret when I didn't buy something that fits my bill exactly. The 328 without the sports seats might cause me some regrets down the road, but maybe I could replace the current seats with sports seats in the future? Other than that it would just be cosmetic differences that doesn't seem too bad.

Coincidentally, the previous owner of the ZHP put in $6k as well and says the car currently does not need anything either (besides new brake pads and rotors, but they will come with the car but not be installed). I'm quite picky, but as for the ZHP, lots of mods have been done and I don't think I'll be doing any....at least I don't plan to haha. The E92 is stock, lots of room for cosmetic mods, but I am not sure I would be stepping in to that scene since I don't know how costly they'd be yet.

There seems to be some opposing opinions on which would cost less to own through the course of 3 years. If I drive for less than 3K miles a year, which would you guys estimate to be cheaper to own assuming I only maintain the essentials on both? Also, regarding the consumer reports...can someone clarify if the verdict was to the 328 or the 3 series in general?

Thanks! Really enjoying the wealth of information here.

[BMWCurves]

Have you driven either? If you have the chance, I'd go and test drive each one. If you're nearby to a Mafia member I'm sure they'd be more than willing to let you take a spin, and probably most BMW dealerships will have one on on hand you can test drive. I think seeing them in person will help you see the differences between the two cars (and there are a fair amount) and give you an idea of which you'd prefer to have for the next few years.

[Typhoon707]

Have you driven either? If you have the chance, I'd go and test drive each one. If you're nearby to a Mafia member I'm sure they'd be more than willing to let you take a spin, and probably most BMW dealerships will have one on on hand you can test drive. I think seeing them in person will help you see the differences between the two cars (and there are a fair amount) and give you an idea of which you'd prefer to have for the next few years.

I've only test driven the E92 335xi but I guess that too is very different both 328i and ZHP. I know you mean "seeing" as test driving, but taking it literally...I see quite a few E92s and I've yet to seen a ZHP. Because E92s are so common, it kind of makes me want the ZHP haha. Unless they are common for good reason. I should probably go on the E90 forum and search the average maintenance cost of a E92 328 out of warranty...

[Typhoon707]

Would a 12 year old ZHP be reliable enough for lengthier road trips like Route 66? Or is that not really possible due to age?

Thanks!

[NoVAphotog]

Would a 12 year old ZHP be reliable enough for lengthier road trips like Route 66? Or is that not really possible due to age?

Thanks!

I would take my car across country tomorrow and have taken it on several long distance road trips with zero issues. It's a fantastic road car and arguably it's doing what it was designed to do - be driven and cruise on the autobahn in that scenario. My friend has taken his 20+ year old E36 M3 all around the country with no issues. It's all about preventative maintenance being completed and up to date. Has nothing to do with age of the vehicle. Shit, I'd take an E46 over the E90 just for the sake of LESS electrical shit to go wrong and a dipstick to check oil.

[ELCID86]

I just went 1000 miles in mine last weekend. Now close to 209k...

[fredo]

I've considered to replace the Mini with the e92 328i. The sport seats are not very important for me. If I end up buying the e92, I would replace the wheels with a set of e92 335i and call it a day.

[Typhoon707]

I would take my car across country tomorrow and have taken it on several long distance road trips with zero issues. It's a fantastic road car and arguably it's doing what it was designed to do - be driven and cruise on the autobahn in that scenario. My friend has taken his 20+ year old E36 M3 all around the country with no issues. It's all about preventative maintenance being completed and up to date. Has nothing to do with age of the vehicle. Shit, I'd take an E46 over the E90 just for the sake of LESS electrical shit to go wrong and a dipstick to check oil.

That is reassuring! Let me know how the trip goes!


I just went 1000 miles in mine last weekend. Now close to 209k...

Seems like they are quite reliable...So should I be expecting much unexpected repairs if I drive annually less than 3000miles?


I've considered to replace the Mini with the e92 328i. The sport seats are not very important for me. If I end up buying the e92, I would replace the wheels with a set of e92 335i and call it a day.

Is there a reason you would replace the 328 wheels with the 335 wheels?

Which would be more comfortable for 3 people (including me), and for 4 people (including me), for long road trips? Assuming average height...

Thanks!

[BCS_ZHP]

Newer e9x interior is roomier than e46, see my sig, I've had plenty of both.

On 15 year old rubber, time and miles have deteriorated it:
- FCABs, front control arm bushings
- RTABs, rear trailing arm bushings
- sway bar bushings
- engine mounts
- transmission mounts
- differential mounts

Some of that is easy DIY, others more involved. But you said you don't have the space to DIY, so break out some 4 digit repair bills to replace suspension rubber parts.

Only 3K miles a year, it won't matter, if the rubber has started to deteriorate (and it has on a 15 year old car), less miles is not going to save it, the weather elements will just let it continue to get worse.

ZHP is more of a pure driving car than e9x, unless you bought something like a 335is, but that's an entirely different price point.

[slowCoupe]

Would a 12 year old ZHP be reliable enough for lengthier road trips like Route 66? Or is that not really possible due to age?

Thanks!

I have a 2005 330ci ZHP, 155,000 miles, and I would drive it cross-country right now. Yes I keep up on the maintenance, but it hasn't had any major mechanical issues since I purchased it in 2007. Sticky thermostat (common), replaced fuel pump, replaced lock/hazard switch cassette, replaced an 02 sensor, and honestly that's it other than regular wear-out items.

[John in VA]

Worried about a road trip in a 12 year-old car? Hell, I'd drive my '74 2002tii to California tomorrow if there was a reason. It depends what maintenance items were performed or deferred, no matter the age of the car.
I'm not a fan of the E36 or E90, but have had sports package/seats in the E28, E30, E39 and E46. We don't have them in my wife's F30 - I miss them!

[fredo]

I believe the e92 without sport package comes with 17" wheels. I would switch to 18" just for the looks. On the Mini, I went from 16" to 17" without any side effects.

[BMWCurves]

I'll add that I'd trust my car in a heart beat to make a trip across the country and back. I drove my '03 330Ci with the standard Sport Package from Philly to the Grand Canyon without a hitch (until I totaled it running into an antelope, but that's another story). They're reliable if you're up to date on preventative maintenance, but that of course does require some money.

[BCS_ZHP]

If a bullfrog had wheelie bars, he wouldn't bump his arse when he jumped.

Think about the dilemma here, not yourself -- an admitted not very mechanically incined person contemplating buying a 12 year old, 150K mile ZHP with some maintenance items done but presumably not all. He's asking what will it cost him to maintain it for 3 yrs/10K miles. Or alternatively, a 6 year old e9x car with 50K-ish miles, maintenance history unknown, same 3 years/10K miles of ownership, what will his maintenance costs be.

A lot of unknowns there but the lower risk option is buy the newer car with less miles and less age. We're not talking a year or two of age difference, we're looking at double the age and 100K more miles.

Many of us have our own cars that we'd trust to drive cross country but could you say that if you didn't know the car's maintenance history and you didn't have the time/knowledge to address anything?

Personally, I prefer an e46 to an e9x, but I know how to work on either one, I am a preventative maintenance OCD person, and in very short order I'd have confidence in the either car's reliability. If I had to pay a shop for every repair, my opinion might change.

This case, he said he doesn't have the place or experience to work on the car. He's asking how much to expect to pay on maintenance, the lowest risk option for him is to go with newer and lower miles car option.

[Typhoon707]

It is nice to hear that all these ZHPs are still going strong!

And to Bruce, the ZHP in question is owned by a member of the forum and he has posted a full maintenance history and it seems more likely than not that he has done most of the maintenance things. Would that change your verdict? I understand that you think the E92 would be the safer option so I will definitely keep that in mind :)

I'll be heading to a rural area of central America with no internet or cell service for a week. Thanks for everyone's input. I still hope that people would be able to continue the discussion though!

Thanks for everyone's input!

[BCS_ZHP]

My preference is different than yours because I'm an old fart with prior ownership of the brand experience, plus I have the space/place/experience to work on them myself. So making some presumptions here, but follow this thought process:

- believe you're a first time prospective BMW buyer, or at least you haven't owned one for an extended or 3 year period
- think you're trying to figure out what's a 3 year experiment/trial of ownership likely to cost me
- if the risk (financially), isn't too bad, which is the more fun car to drive.

If I got that correct, in your shoes I'd go lowest risk so as not to potentially sour you on the brand if something were to go wrong. Again, I'm older and more conservative, you might not have dependents and can take a little more risk.

My story, our first BMW was a 1997 540iA, bought it in 1999 for my wife, it had 25K miles. Owned it for 2+ years, about 30K miles per year, did normal maintenance (oil changes, brakes, tires) but not preventative maintenance (cooling system), and got bit by a gotcha. I was guilty, was out running it pretty hard on some back roads. On that car, the radiator neck where the upper radiator hose connects is plastic, I was revving the car hard enough that the engine torqued in its mounts and moved, moved enough that the upper radiator hose snapped that radiator neck, coolant lost, engine overheated, head warped. My little play session set me back $5K, a shop fixed the car and immediately sold it. And then stayed away from the brand for 7 years, once bitten twice shy. I wasn't soured on the brand, love their engineering and the drive it produces. But realized I had 3 young kids, the car was my wife's primary vehicle, I'd need to stay on top of it preventative maintenance-wise for it to be reliable for her, and I didn't have the time or money to do that at that specific time. Move forward to 2008, my wife asks for a fun car, financially we're in a much better place that the BMW would be an extra car, I have the time to be OCD about preventative maintenance, and the rest is history with the number of BMWs we've had over the last 9 years.

I've heard too many tales of folks that bought a BMW, weren't expecting, ready, and/or prepared for maintenance, something broke and was expensive to repair, and now they dog cuss the brand even though they were likely part of inducing the problem by neglecting to perform normal and preventative maintenance.

[BMWM3186]

Have you considered something other than a bmw if you don't want to do bmw maintenance? Like a G37?

[Reasoned1]

The ZHP is an AMAZING drive, and I wouldn't expect any 328 to rival it. If you can get a high-mileage ZHP on the cheap (especially if it has a solid maintenance record), do so. Then, start saving up for a low-mileage ZHP.

And all you ZHPMafia members that recommended getting a non-ZHP... shame on you! ; )

[RedAtom]

I haven't had mine long, but I have to agree. The ZHP is definitely an amazing drive! The car has a special something.

Why don't you just wait a bit longer for a low mileage one to pop up?

[BCS_ZHP]

Typhoon, good luck in your decision. Have spoke my piece, others have done similarly, I'm out of further discussion/debate.