Car Not Starting

[Clark317]

2001 330CI Vert Auto

I had a rpm dropping problem at red lights so last weekend I replaced the intake boots, and cleaned the ICV/DISA. The rpm drop off problem seemed better but still is there. When I stop at a red light, car still in drive, the rpm will go from 600 to 500 back and forth. The mpg gauge will also go up(down) to 25-30 slowly as I come to a stop at the light then drop back to the left even though my foot is not on gas.

Two days ago I was going down the highway (65mph) and the eml light flashed on and the rpm dropped way down briefly (4-5 secs) with a ruff shift in the auto trans. I searched a little and people were leaning to the fuel filter.

Today going 30mph I got the same eml light and rpm drop, no hard shift. I was about 30 seconds away from my office. I parked the car for 20 minutes when I got in to go home, it would not start. Turning over just fine, just no firing.

I am thinking fuel filter? Maybe worst case fuel pump?

Any ideas, suggestions are greatly appreciated.

I am going to go back up to work to try it again tonight when the traffic dies down. Maybe limp it home through the neighborhoods.

Thanks in advance!

Edit: oh, also 80k miles and no history of fuel filter being changed, also I replaced the plugs less than a month ago.

[kayger12]

Fuel filter is definitely a good candidate. Disregard the mpg gauge going down as you slow to a stop-- mine does the same.

Getting the codes read would help narrow it down.

[Clark317]

Interesting on the gauge... No service light was on, would there still be codes?

[danewilson77]

Need codes. This could be any number of things. Did you check and double check your boot install. Sometimes guys will install lower boot improperly, and not put the tab in the right spot....which will cause a large intake leak.

Droid! Srs Legitness!

[kayger12]

Could be-- they don't always trigger a light.

When you go back to her, you could turning the key to position 2 without trying to start her and then back to off and repeat 3 or 4 times. Sometimes that will get enough fuel through a clogged up filter to get her to run. Also would help confirm the diagnosis.

[Clark317]

Thanks so much guys I will try the key trick tonight. I assume this engages the pump a few times. I took my time on the boot, but was not paying full attention to the tab... Still need the codes, would there be a code pointing to a intake leak specifically. I wonder if autozone would let me drive off with their code reader... lol. Might be better to ask forgiveness from them rather than permission.

[kayger12]

I assume this engages the pump a few times.

Exactly. As for the codes, an intake leak will usually give you Lean Bank 1/ Lean Bank 2 codes I believe.

[Mtnman]

Exactly. As for the codes, an intake leak will usually give you Lean Bank 1/ Lean Bank 2 codes I believe.

Yup, keith, lean one and lean two is correct for leak in the intake boots.

[Clark317]

Tried the key trick to no avail. I could hear a whirrr-ing noise in the engine, assuming that is the fuel pump. It was getting dark so I didn't check the boot. I have a co-worker with a code reader he is supposed to bring tomorrow. I will post the codes. Can the intake boot cause it not to start? Seems extreme.

[kayger12]

I wouldn't think the intake boot would keep it from starting. It might run rough and lean, but it should still start.

I still think the fuel filter is a good bet.

[Mtnman]

Agreed. Never heard of a boot leak keep a car from starting.

[danewilson77]

Yup, keith, lean one and lean two is correct for leak in the intake boots.

P0171 and/or P0174.

So....you can hear the pump kick on when you turn the key?

Droid! Srs Legitness!

[Clark317]

I think I am hearing the fuel pump, it is whir from the engine area. It is pretty loud, I hear it in the cabin. I will lookup where it is located and make sure tomorrow. I have not felt a loss of power, I guess that is not always the case with a fuel filter. What is the averages for replacement? I have 80k.

Oh yeah! I just dloaded tapatalk for the iPad, it is pretty sweet.

[Clark317]

My coworker forgot the code reader this morning. I tried to start anyway and it fired right up, twice in a row. I will get the code reader this afternoon after work if he doesn't get it on his lunch break. I am still not going to drive it, I do not want to have it die on the side of the road.

[Clark317]

I sent an email to the parts dept @ the Virginia Beach stealership. Got two emails back from different people one quotes $145.16 and one quotes $152.42 a few minutes later. I better get this part quick as it appears the price is rising like oil. I check autozone and they list one for $20. I see online they are $40-$50 oem. I am thinking autozone, since I can get one today and possible slap it in tonight if the rain stops... I know, I know, autozone - bad, but this is a filter. Is it still a bad idea?

[kayger12]

$20 sounds awfully cheap. I would personally make sure wherever I got it from that it's an OEM filter.

[Clark317]

Yeah @ $20 I might slap a autozone one in there while waiting to get one online. I still am going to get the codes still before anything.

[Clark317]

Used my friends code reader and there are no codes. I think I will proceed with putting in the autozone filter, and ordering one from Pelican Parts. If the autozone one dies I will have the backup, otherwise I will probably wait and swap it again on the next oil change. Sounds reasonable?

[danewilson77]

And you verified that the fuel pump relay is energizing, correct? Sorry...

[Clark317]

I haven't verified the relay I was reading on this, and apparently one can test with the horn relay. I have not been able to locate my multimeter since I moved back in January. I need to order a new one through work. I might see about getting a new relay from autozone too if it is as cheap as they say, around $8. Do you have a link of how to test it? I will search otherwise I am sure it is on a forum somewhere.

[danewilson77]

Just swap the relays behind the glovebox.

Doooooo you hear it it kick on when you turn the key to pos 2?

Droid! Srs Legitness!

[Clark317]

Got cha. I do hear the hiss when I put the key to posII. I am going to come back here to do all this tomorrow morning sometime. I will pull the back seat and put my ear to the pump to make sure the sound I hear is coming from there. The car started again today 3 times, no hesitation. Thank goodness I have a second vehicle through all this. I needed to blow the dust off my '89 ford ranger anyway lol. I will have my ipad on me with my work's wireless so I will be able to post results as I go. Thanks Dane, and everyone else for the support.

[danewilson77]

Got cha. I do hear the hiss when I put the key to posII. I am going to come back here to do all this tomorrow morning sometime. I will pull the back seat and put my ear to the pump to make sure the sound I hear is coming from there. The car started again today 3 times, no hesitation. Thank goodness I have a second vehicle through all this. I needed to blow the dust off my '89 ford ranger anyway lol. I will have my ipad on me with my work's wireless so I will be able to post results as I go. Thanks Dane, and everyone else for the support.

Sounds good.

Droid! Srs Legitness!

[Acyd]

I'm sitting at work with the same problem I don't think I can hear the fuel pump. I'm stuck here too. No ride home.

[danewilson77]

I'm sitting at work with the same problem I don't think I can hear the fuel pump. I'm stuck here too. No ride home.

If you can find the horn relay....put it in the fuel relay spot. Maybe you'll get lucky. Could be the pump also though.

Droid! Srs Legitness!

[Acyd]

I popped my hood and Listened for the pump and I do hear a whirring sound. Maybe my filter is clogged. It did this the oher morning but it started after a few tries. Buddy is coming to get me tho, so that's good.

[danewilson77]

The pump is under your rear seat. Drivers side.

[MrMaico]

I have to wonder if that $20 filter is the correct one with the integrated pressure regulator?

[Dotpage]

my 330i did the same thing, it was dirt in the fuel, started up next day and I never let the tank go under 1/4 anymore. Problem(somewhat) solved.

[Johnmadd]

I have to wonder if that $20 filter is the correct one with the integrated pressure regulator?
That was what I was thinking, I found that out a few weeks ago and thought that was very different.

[Clark317]

Sorry for the delay in updates, crazy weekend. The autozone $20 part is incorrect. They list it online for my car but in the store they list the correct one @ $80. They did not have it in stock, so since I already ordered it from pelican I am just waiting till Thursday for delivery and install. They car is starting every time now, but I have to make some change before I can trust it again. I see a lot of DIY on the fuel filter start off with disabling the pump via the fuse and letting the system run dry, I am hesitant about this. Any thoughts?

[Clark317]

my 330i did the same thing, it was dirt in the fuel, started up next day and I never let the tank go under 1/4 anymore. Problem(somewhat) solved.

I saw some talk on other forum about problems under 1/4 tank and replacement of the tubes that go in between the two sections of tank. I saw a guy have the problem then replace the fuel pump, sender, filter, and relay. Surprise! Fixed the problem. I do not want to throw parts at my car, since I have a back up. Plus my tank has well over half, almost 3/4.

[danewilson77]

If you were at almost 3/4...then you can rule out anything to do with the secondary tank fuel system. You see..when you get less than 1/4........a seperate motive force has to move fuel from one side of the saddle bag (passenger side) to the driver side.....

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/171.png

[MrMaico]

I see a lot of DIY on the fuel filter start off with disabling the pump via the fuse and letting the system run dry, I am hesitant about this. Any thoughts? I put mine up on the jackstands a day early so it sat for 24 hrs and didn't have any problem with pressure in the fuel lines when I unhooked them. I also double clamped the new fuel lines just to be safe. Not necessary but they're cheap and it can't hurt anything.

[Acyd]

Just replaced my pump and she fired right up. I was so relieved. Hardest part of the job seemed to be getting the hose clamp off of the pump, and getting that metal ring to turn. Pretty cake job. Thanks for the help!

[Clark317]

Changed my fuel filter out finally! It took me 30 mins including breaking out the tools and cleaning up. It misfired a little when it first started, but then stopped, not going to worry. It seems to be running ok, no ems or rpm drop while driving so far. It still kinda bounces around on rpm when coming to a stop. Then it drops off of 600 to about 550 and back. That is a little better (still annoying) because it was dropping from 600 to below 500. I appreciate the help again. I am going to keep a close eye on it. If my problem comes back, I will swap relays, then possible fuel pump. Any ideas where to go with the rpm drop? I am thinking throttle position sensor. I have done plugs, cleaned icv & disa, new batt and alternator. I probably need the Vanos done, could that create rpm issues? I was going to do that in the summer after I watch it done at the Beast Coast Reunion! (assuming it doesn't disintegrate by then)

[Crickett]

The RPM dip could be a symptom of the ECU "relearning" with the new filter? :dunno

[Clark317]

Sounds good to me! Maybe it will go away.