What MPG are you getting??

[JoeyBimmer05]

I recently purchased a 2004 330i zhp from a current zhpMafia member and the previous work he had done to the car was
-100 dollar headers from ebay
- exhaust pipping
- ActiveAutowerke muffler
- removed resonator

On the highway it seemed to get good gas mileage since i drove it back home on a 4 hour trip, but once i refilled the tank and used it here in the city i was getting about 17mpg. I got 290 miles to the tank. Ive owned a zhp a while back and i remember getting better miles per gallon then. Im wondering What can make my MPG's drop so dramatically? If the headers aren't installed properly do you think that can be effecting my MPG's?

Ive been trying to drive very conservatively and on this new tank i filled. I'm already down a quarter tank and I've only driven 75 miles. Does anyone have any ideas to why? What MPG's are you all getting?

[JoeyBimmer05]

Correction***

Previous owner had Vibrant Performance Streetpower Muffler and the second resonator was removed.

[anandoc]

Correction***

Previous owner had Vibrant Performance Streetpower Muffler and the second resonator was removed.

I think if you get 290 miles (466 KMs) to a tank, thats not too bad. I personally get about 430 KMs (267 miles) on a tank, while driving around in the city (Toronto traffic is pretty bad too). Highway is a different story - I usually get around 7.6 L/100 KM (30 MPG) so maybe around 700 KMs on a tank.

I too have the Vibrant street performance exhaust installed but I did not notice any change in MPGs after the install.

[az3579]

I recently purchased a 2004 330i zhp from a current zhpMafia member and the previous work he had done to the car was
-100 dollar headers from ebay
- exhaust pipping
- ActiveAutowerke muffler
- removed resonator

On the highway it seemed to get good gas mileage since i drove it back home on a 4 hour trip, but once i refilled the tank and used it here in the city i was getting about 17mpg. I got 290 miles to the tank. Ive owned a zhp a while back and i remember getting better miles per gallon then. Im wondering What can make my MPG's drop so dramatically? If the headers aren't installed properly do you think that can be effecting my MPG's?

Ive been trying to drive very conservatively and on this new tank i filled. I'm already down a quarter tank and I've only driven 75 miles. Does anyone have any ideas to why? What MPG's are you all getting?


I wouldn't read too much into your mpg's if you're only driving in the city. It's the worst kind of driving you can do for fuel efficiency. 17 sounds on point to me.

[BMWCurves]

City driving is highly variable. When I lived in Philadelphia with my old 330Ci, I could manage 21-22 mpg in the city because it's mostly flat and I drove at times when traffic wasn't bad. When I moved back to Portland which is much more hilly and I can get stuck in traffic, I can get as low as 17, but I struggle to hit 20 mpg with city driving.

[johnrando]

We actually have a mileage thread but hard to find it on tapatalk. With a vert and mods I get 18 city, much better on highway.

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[fw_fw]

Best place to check mileage is at fuelly.com. I use their app to track mileage on my cars and you can easily find what others are getting on their cars of all makes & models.

[3ZHP]

This is a very old post with my milage log at that time, that has calculated milage for every tank. I'm still doing this @ 150k and haven't missed a tank. May update in the next few weeks.

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?352-Member-BMW-330i-Ci-ZHP-Maintenance-and-Mod-Ledger


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[JoeyBimmer05]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Yeah I'm going to see what i average after i finish his full tank and refill up next time. This is only my second full tank in the city driving. at 105k miles on the car it still driving smooth.

[Simmsled]

Can't stress enough the ocean of difference between a Steptronic and manual in regards to mileage.
My manual will get 31mpg on the highway all day everyday at 70mph.
My Steptronic gets about 26mpg on the highway at 70mph.
Around town and highway mix...
manual gets 25ish
Steptronic gets 21ish

[ELCID86]

Can't stress enough the ocean of difference between a Steptronic and manual in regards to mileage.
My manual will get 31mpg on the highway all day everyday at 70mph.
My Steptronic gets about 26mpg on the highway at 70mph.
Around town and highway mix...
manual gets 25ish
Steptronic gets 21ish

Yep. Though I don't get quite that with the MT in town. And I usually get 28-29 hwy in my high mileage variant.

[Simmsled]

Granted... we don't have hills here. Nothing but flat, unfortunately.

[Dave1027]

Since you have cheap headers, you might consider the O2 sensors may not be working properly if at all. I average 24.7 mpg with 50/50 city/hwy.

[JoeyBimmer05]

Since you have cheap headers, you might consider the O2 sensors may not be working properly if at all. I average 24.7 mpg with 50/50 city/hwy.

The guy who installed the cheap headers before i bought it from him told me that the O2 sensors fit perfectly and it never gave him a check engine light. He also mentions that mass airflow sensor gave him a check engine at one point but he replaced some thing with is intake seal or something and it fixed that problem. Im not sure if anything has anything to do with the lower mileage.

[TigerTater]

I have headers and resonators. Step trans...average 19-21 mixed driving. Def down since headers installed...but I don't mind. I love the power they provide ...makes up for the sluggish AT...

[GotZHP]

My average will go between 22 to 24mpgs. I am at 24 on the dot right now because I have backed off on the revs recently. I live in Orange County and have to drive by LA twice a week, so my car will see the extremes on the highway. I either will be driving at peak rush hour and will be stuck in crawling traffic, or I drive at the off hours (12am-4am) and will be doing 80 to 90mph. While stuck in traffic I see ~15 miles per gallon, even when just trying to roll along in 1st or 2nd gear. While blasting the highway at 80, I will see over 30 as long as the road stay relatively flat. Mileage does suffer some once I start cruising around 90+.

On a good week, and when I behave and follow the posted speed limit, I will see 400 miles per tank. If I granny the car I'll squeeze out an extra 20 miles for 420 miles to the tank. Some weeks, I will see 300 miles per tank.

6sp MT, 124,000 miles on the clock.

[dpark]

I drive city (60%) and hwy (40%) and get 23.5mpg consistently. Hwy only I get 29+ easy. Don't drive 100% city ever so can answer that. But it would prob be under 20mpg. 330i with 6mt.


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[RedAtom]

I have only had mine for a month, mileage is terrible with San Francisco traffic and hills.

Averaging 15 mpg's, steptronic.

[Vas]

100% city on the last tank. 380 miles and got 23.4 mpg.

[holyc0w]

I'm currently doing 100% city (suburb) at 21.7 mpg. It's been going up slowly towards 22 from 21, since I'm missing most of the traffic with the work hours.

[Rovert]

Your better comparison is straight highway driving since the only stops are pee breaks! Most people will be running in between 50mph and 80mph constant which is an easier gauge. I could easily run 475-500'ish mile on the highway (30-32MPG) and a few times I ran 600 miles (34-38MPG) in my old ZHP when traffic was absolute perfect. She was as healthy as a spring chicken!

[san]

Your better comparison is straight highway driving since the only stops are pee breaks! Most people will be running in between 50mph and 80mph constant which is an easier gauge. I could easily run 475-500'ish mile on the highway (30-32MPG) and a few times I ran 600 miles (34-38MPG) in my old ZHP when traffic was absolute perfect. She was as healthy as a spring chicken!

Yup, I get about 350-400 miles on a 3/4 tank of fuel, depending on traffic, road conditions and fuel grade (summer/winter blend 93 octane)...


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[derbo]

I'm getting about 25mpg or so. I do however have a 3.62 rear end and 70mph is about 3000rpm.. :) There is hills and traffic that dipps it down as well. My fuelly avg MPG dips cause of the 8 MPG track days. :)

[WOLFN8TR]

That seems pretty low. Try cleaning the MAF Sensor and the air filter or replace it. The O2 Sensors could also be bad as stated above.

I get 23 mpg in my M3 driving like Ricky Bobby most of the time.

MAF Cleaning
http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?19006-The-MAF-Cleaning-Thread

[BumpinAlpine]

My gas mileage has dipped recently and was hoping for some input.

This is probably just a coincidence but I replaced my spark plugs recently and the car felt and does feel stronger throughout the power band but a few weeks after, it feels a bit labored in the 1000-1400 RPMs and the engine has a fair amount of vibration in that range. Also the idle sometimes feels a bit low (around 600rpms) I would guess. The rest of the RPM range, the engine is smooth and responsive

The gas mileage has also dipped from around 23 down to 20-21, and I don't do too much city driving

All maintenance is up to date, car is as at 140k mileage, 6 speed, sprayed the MAF down about a year ago
Just checked for codes, all clear

[derbo]

That seems pretty low. Try cleaning the MAF Sensor and the air filter or replace it. The O2 Sensors could also be bad as stated above.

I get 23 mpg in my M3 driving like Ricky Bobby most of the time.

MAF Cleaning
http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?19006-The-MAF-Cleaning-Thread


It's a brand new MAF. Like I said, I hit a lot traffic and hills as well on my 114 mile round trip commute everyday.

[Prestovie]

According to the car I'm getting 19.2mpg combined, but with GasTracker I've been at 18.5 since December. 6spd and mostly town driving


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[BMWCurves]

According to the car I'm getting 19.2mpg combined, but with GasTracker I've been at 18.5 since December. 6spd and mostly town driving


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Do you have a lot of hills? How long are your drives? I get around 20 mpg city, sometimes less. I attribute that to short trips, mostly town driving, living in a hilly place (lots of ups and downs), and a heavy right foot.

[ELCID86]

Headed to SC tomorrow for a funeral and will be checking mine on I-95 south.

[RedAtom]

Do you have a lot of hills? How long are your drives? I get around 20 mpg city, sometimes less. I attribute that to short trips, mostly town driving, living in a hilly place (lots of ups and downs), and a heavy right foot.

I have a new maf and still only get 15.

How are you guys getting these numbers!!

[slater]

I have a new maf and still only get 15.

How are you guys getting these numbers!!

good maintenance? i dunno, i am not a hypermiler and i average 31mpg on the highway and about 29mpg everywhere else...

[ELCID86]

good maintenance? i dunno, i am not a hypermiler and i average 31mpg on the highway and about 29mpg everywhere else...

I usually get low 30s highway and low to mid 20s in town. Even with 3.38 diff. It was a bit lower with my AT car.

[Prestovie]

Do you have a lot of hills? How long are your drives? I get around 20 mpg city, sometimes less. I attribute that to short trips, mostly town driving, living in a hilly place (lots of ups and downs), and a heavy right foot.

I've definitely been working on my heavy right foot as well haha, but also lately I've realized that short shifting was getting me worse fuel economy, so now I'm letting first gear climb to 3 grand and going down from there by gear. Good amount of hills in my town and like you not very long trips at once unless I'm on the highway.
But this brings up a question of mine, where do you guys shift at? It has to be a pretty large contributor to MPG. Apparently in a e46F post I read BMW recommends 2/3 throttle and shifting first gear just under 3 grand then working your way down from there. This is what I'm doing right now:
1st- 2,800rpm
2nd- 2,600rpm
3rd- 2,400rpm
4th- 2,200rpm
5th- 2,100rpm
6th- 2,000rpm


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[Rovert]

It's all different under different altitudes, inclines, declines.

My car had no problem short shifting. My 1st to 2nd could be done below 1,000 when the conditions gave the engine what it needed.

My M3 I have no problem shifting at 1500 in all gears. I don't lug the engine and when I'm in easy mode, I'm hardly giving throttle.

You'll know when the engine labors at low RPM as the engine volume/drone increases dramatically with little RPM increase.

[derbo]

Are you guys calculating the number from full fill up? The obd for me usually displays 27 but I actually average 25 when doing the calc with gas tracker app.

I have my spurts of 80 mph uphill from time to time.

It should be noted that engine braking above 1500 rpm does not use fuel. :)


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[WOLFN8TR]

I guess I'm lucky to get 23mpg in my M3 driving like a lunatic. Don't tell Jacob LoL...

[Rovert]

^GoPro or lunatic driving didn't happen. LOL

[danewilson77]

I have a new maf and still only get 15.

How are you guys getting these numbers!!
15?

Might as well buy a 3/4 ton truck.

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[BMWM3186]

I get about 23 mostly city and a heavy foot.

[Prestovie]

Are you guys calculating the number from full fill up? The obd for me usually displays 27 but I actually average 25 when doing the calc with gas tracker app.

I'm always calculating mine with partial fill up, I rarely let it drop under 1/4 tank, usually fill up at half



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[ELCID86]

Well I was a bit optimistic. After about 400 miles I rolled into Charleston right at 29 MPG.

[derbo]

I'm always calculating mine with partial fill up, I rarely let it drop under 1/4 tank, usually fill up at half



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That makes it hard to calculate accurately.

I tend to fill it up until the pump clicks and log the miles between my last fill up. This usually reads 1-2mpg lower than what the cluster reads as they are almost always optimistic.

If I drive below 70mph and hit light-than-usual traffic during the course of the tank, I can achieve 27mpg. I think alot of my issue is the 3.62 rear end is up in the RPMs and very "antsy" to put around. :) It's also very fun to mash. :D

[Prestovie]

That makes it hard to calculate accurately.

I tend to fill it up until the pump clicks and log the miles between my last fill up. This usually reads 1-2mpg lower than what the cluster reads as they are almost always optimistic.


Yea that's what I do haha, GasTracker is always about 1mpg under my obd. Not sure what else I can do differently :/
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170309/c40b57036f33400ff242a663db4a1e7f.jpg



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[cornercarver]

I've been seeing ~30mpg highway according to the on-board computer on recent trips, averaging 70-75mph. On snow tires (narrower 205mm tire width) I was seeing as much as 33mpg. Haven't calibrated the computer's numbers to actual fill-ups though.

[dpark]

I drive city (60%) and hwy (40%) and get 23.5mpg consistently. Hwy only I get 29+ easy. Don't drive 100% city ever so can answer that. But it would prob be under 20mpg. 330i with 6mt.


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Just got back from a trip to Bandon Dunes. 30.0mpg for the trip. Just a tad bit of "city" driving from the Lodge to the courses and back, and dinner in Bandon on a couple of nights. Also brand new tires (Barums) for the trip.

[RedAtom]

I was able to get 27 mpg on the freeway, but I still only get 15 around town.

Have the shark injector installed, anyone know how much this impacts fuel economy?

[derbo]

Yea that's what I do haha, GasTracker is always about 1mpg under my obd. Not sure what else I can do differently :/
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170309/c40b57036f33400ff242a663db4a1e7f.jpg



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Are you just marking it a partial fillup? A full fillup is when the gas pump clicks and stops regardless of what is in the tank? I'm a bit confused on your partial fill up.

[Prestovie]

Are you just marking it a partial fillup? A full fillup is when the gas pump clicks and stops regardless of what is in the tank? I'm a bit confused on your partial fill up.

Is that actually what partial means? [emoji23] I've been thinking that partial meant that it just wasn't a full tank when I filled it, I'm gonna go back and change them all and see if it makes a difference


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[Prestovie]

Well that seemed to make a little difference, I can't remember exactly but I'm sure that all the ones that I have even dollar amounts were partials then. Either way thanks for pointing that out, it actually tells me more information about the MPG now https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170318/9a8c39116bdad9afc8d8c37c9b69f325.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170318/70cbae1a317baa1f552176c7b284226a.jpg


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[holyc0w]

Well that seemed to make a little difference, I can't remember exactly but I'm sure that all the ones that I have even dollar amounts were partials then. Either way thanks for pointing that out, it actually tells me more information about the MPG now

Yep, that's why you didn't have MPG showing up.

[Sockethead]

I'm getting 23.6 mpg according to the OBC. That's with a TS2 supercharger and a heavy foot.... Impressive!
I do highway on the way to work and bumper to bumper traffic on the way home

[Rovert]

You're SC??? [emoji52]

Better be a CF charger.

[Johnmadd]

My obc says 29.4 mpg. I do a lot of 55 mph driving with minimal stops and 0-60 mph runs, and a tad of city driving.

[Sockethead]

You're SC??? [emoji52]

Better be a CF charger.

Where you been? I did that last August

[Rovert]

LOL

[papa_g]

I have not been able to breach 18.4 mpg with mixed city & highway. Right now, after a couple days of just city driving, I am at 17.4. I live in Seattle's Eastside, which has its fair share of hills, but that means that for every hill I go up, there's a hill I go down.

I am trying to get my MPGs up into the 20s for city driving like some of you guys are getting. I have an automatic, 87.5k miles. fixed all the vacuum leaks, but I randomly got a P0444, P0171, and P0174 yesterday, and then it went away in less than a day. Can a bad purge valve cause a decreased MPG? I am going to check the resistance on my valve, and maybe pinch the female leads a little to create a tighter fit.

[papa_g]

Another thing, I noticed I don't automatically up shift when coasting down a hill. This creates unnecessary engine braking, which does not help my MPG. Has anyone else noticed this, and if so, have you addressed it in any way?

[dpark]

My ZHP has 131K miles and is a manual transmission.

I get 21-22mpg with 70% city/30% highway. When doing 100% highway, I get 29-31mpg depending on how fast I am going.

[ELCID86]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180218/13b0eda98a8f4c46b4547f501520b446.jpg

[danewilson77]

238K miles. 21.1 mpg.... Mostly city.

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[az3579]

Another thing, I noticed I don't automatically up shift when coasting down a hill. This creates unnecessary engine braking, which does not help my MPG. Has anyone else noticed this, and if so, have you addressed it in any way?

Actually, when it's engine braking, it's using zero fuel. That means it's greatly helping your mpg.
When there is zero throttle applied, it uses zero fuel. Coast as much as you can (while in gear) to reap this benefit.

You have a couple of things working against you:
1) Automatic - the autos of this generation sucked on gas mileage compared to the manuals
2) Hills - these kill mpg like it's their job

Tips:

1) Build up speed slowly but surely before you go up a hill. Make sure you build up enough speed where you don't have to give it a whole lot more gas to go up the hill but instead try maintaining the throttle position if you can. If you do it just right, you can make it to the top of the hill without losing too much speed, or being too much below the speed limit. Use the length of the hill as the deciding factor for how much extra speed to build up before the hill and how long to hold it. Start letting off the throttle as you approach the crest of the hill still slightly go up. This allows you to get off the throttle earlier, but not lose too much speed before starting your downward descent, while builds the speed back up.

2) Use the extra speed gained from going downhill to maintain momentum on the next stretch of road. Keep the mpg needle on the left side of the gauge to reap this benefit.

3) Be extremely light on the throttle. A lot of people don't realize just how heavy their feet are. Your acceleration should be smooth enough where you should be able to put a partially filled glass of water on your dash and not have any spill out.

4) This may sound crazy, but drive the speed limit. If you do this, and accelerate very lightly, the car learns this behavior and makes the throttle a lot more receptive to keeping the mpg needle on the left side of the gauge. I learned over the past week's experiment that driving the speed limit for a few days actually allows my mpg needle to hover over the 6L / 100km marking on my mpg gauge (about 40 mpg on a US gauge) a lot more easily on the highway than if I was driving normally all week and suddenly tried to hypermile. It takes time for the car to learn your habits, but it will adjust eventually, making it easier to get better mileage.

5) Driving like this will create lots of impatient people behind you. This is a mental block you have to get through and deal with. It takes a lot of patience - trust me, it's hard! Always use the right-most lane on the highway and try not to pass people if possible. This will ensure the best mpg you can get on the highway.

In all honesty, 18+ mpg sounds exactly right for being mostly city driving with hills and an automatic of that generation. Driving exclusively in the city, it's quite hard to reach the EPA claim of 20mpg with the manual, depending on just how many stop lights and stop signs you have to deal with. Places that have these items make it very hard to achieve good results.







I may try to make a video ... at some point... on how to get good MPG out of our cars, since enough people seem to ask about it.

[danewilson77]

Ahhhh.... Hypermilling ftw.

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[Rovert]

I hypermill my car too. To the point it annoys my friends who can’t touch my mileage. [emoji23] I find it oddly satisfying for kicks since testing the police isn’t fun! Now I can do something that is still a challenge at speed limit. LOL

[papa_g]

I get 21-22mpg with 70% city/30% highway...


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180218/13b0eda98a8f4c46b4547f501520b446.jpg


238K miles. 21.1 mpg.... Mostly city.

You see... i know that 18 is low even if i have the automatic. Do you guys know what could possibly be pulling my MPG down like this??

[danewilson77]

You see... i know that 18 is low even if i have the automatic. Do you guys know what could possibly be pulling my MPG down like this??Seems a tad low. What is your style of driving? What gas do you use?

Also, be advised that we're still on winter mix. Location?

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[papa_g]

Actually, when it's engine braking, it's using zero fuel. That means it's greatly helping your mpg.
When there is zero throttle applied, it uses zero fuel. Coast as much as you can (while in gear) to reap this benefit.

You have a couple of things working against you:
1) Automatic - the autos of this generation sucked on gas mileage compared to the manuals
2) Hills - these kill mpg like it's their job

Tips:

1) Build up speed slowly but surely before you go up a hill. Make sure you build up enough speed where you don't have to give it a whole lot more gas to go up the hill but instead try maintaining the throttle position if you can. If you do it just right, you can make it to the top of the hill without losing too much speed, or being too much below the speed limit. Use the length of the hill as the deciding factor for how much extra speed to build up before the hill and how long to hold it. Start letting off the throttle as you approach the crest of the hill still slightly go up. This allows you to get off the throttle earlier, but not lose too much speed before starting your downward descent, while builds the speed back up.

2) Use the extra speed gained from going downhill to maintain momentum on the next stretch of road. Keep the mpg needle on the left side of the gauge to reap this benefit.

3) Be extremely light on the throttle. A lot of people don't realize just how heavy their feet are. Your acceleration should be smooth enough where you should be able to put a partially filled glass of water on your dash and not have any spill out.

4) This may sound crazy, but drive the speed limit. If you do this, and accelerate very lightly, the car learns this behavior and makes the throttle a lot more receptive to keeping the mpg needle on the left side of the gauge. I learned over the past week's experiment that driving the speed limit for a few days actually allows my mpg needle to hover over the 6L / 100km marking on my mpg gauge (about 40 mpg on a US gauge) a lot more easily on the highway than if I was driving normally all week and suddenly tried to hypermile. It takes time for the car to learn your habits, but it will adjust eventually, making it easier to get better mileage.

5) Driving like this will create lots of impatient people behind you. This is a mental block you have to get through and deal with. It takes a lot of patience - trust me, it's hard! Always use the right-most lane on the highway and try not to pass people if possible. This will ensure the best mpg you can get on the highway.

In all honesty, 18+ mpg sounds exactly right for being mostly city driving with hills and an automatic of that generation. Driving exclusively in the city, it's quite hard to reach the EPA claim of 20mpg with the manual, depending on just how many stop lights and stop signs you have to deal with. Places that have these items make it very hard to achieve good results.







I may try to make a video ... at some point... on how to get good MPG out of our cars, since enough people seem to ask about it.

That's some very good advice, I will have to try it out. Sorry, but when I said it isn't helping my MPG, I mean that since it is adding unnecessary braking, I am not going down the hill as fast as I should be (my other cars coast down hills much faster). If I were to automatically upshift, my RPMs would go down, and I would be going faster without using fuel, isn't that better?
I am pretty familiar with accelerating and decelerating at opportune moments to keep MPGs up, but I am still getting used to the throttle on this thing. Maybe my foot is heavier than I thought. A video would be awesome. I will take your advice and let you know if anything has changed.

[az3579]

You see... i know that 18 is low even if i have the automatic. Do you guys know what could possibly be pulling my MPG down like this??But it really isn't. EPA estimates are usually very hard to achieve, so being only 2 mpg below really isn't unreasonable.

Dane's 21 "mostly city" is influenced by that "mostly" part. Highway driving brings it up quite a bit.

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[papa_g]

Seems a tad low. What is your style of driving? What gas do you use?

Also, be advised that we're still on winter mix. Location?

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My style of driving is pretty casual and considerate. I accelerate very steadily and make sure to brake well in advance, so I can increase my odds of not having to come to a complete stop at the stop light.
I always use Chevron 92 octane. I have never seen 93 octane here in WA.

[danewilson77]

My style of driving is pretty casual and considerate. I accelerate very steadily and make sure to brake well in advance, so I can increase my odds of not having to come to a complete stop at the stop light.
I always use Chevron 92 octane. I have never seen 93 octane here in WA.

Everything checks out there. I assume your mpg will go up to 19 after winter. Would this be normal for you?

You seem to be attentive to your maintenance so I assume plugs, oil, fuel filter, intake filter, etc... Are new.

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[papa_g]

Everything checks out there. I assume your mpg will go up to 19 after winter. Would this be normal for you?

You seem to be attentive to your maintenance so I assume plugs, oil, fuel filter, intake filter, etc... Are new.

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Yup, all new or recent. Let me ask you this though:
The plugs are about 25k miles old. I felt it would be overkill to replace them so early on, so I just cleaned up with a wire brush and burned off the extra carbon build up with a propane torch (I had a VCG leak, so they had a bit of oil on them.) I have a set of brand new plugs ready to go, and am thinking to put them in and see if anything is improved. What are your thoughts on this?

I normally get over 20MPG on my automatic 6-speed 2013 VW tiguan with equally mixed driving (mostly city). But that one is a 4 cylinder with a turbo.

[danewilson77]

I wouldn't. They should be good for 100K miles.

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[papa_g]

That's what I thought. I was supposedly getting misfires in cylinders 2 5 & 6 per my PPI I think, but i never saw a code for that myself, and I have no SES light rn. I may just have to drive like a granny for a few weeks to readapt the throttle. Let's see what happens after that. Next time I take a long highway trip, I will track my MPG as well.

[az3579]

That's what I thought. I was supposedly getting misfires in cylinders 2 5 & 6 per my PPI I think, but i never saw a code for that myself, and I have no SES light rn. I may just have to drive like a granny for a few weeks to readapt the throttle. Let's see what happens after that. Next time I take a long highway trip, I will track my MPG as well.Switch up the position of the spark plugs only and see if the misfire readings are the same. If they are, perhaps switch the coil packs and see if the issue follows.

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[danewilson77]

Missed the misfire story. I agree with BP.

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[papa_g]

I don't have any misfires to speak of. The indy shop that did my PPI back in september said they were reading misfires, but could not detect it when the car was idling or when test driving it. Since then, i did the valve cover gasket and cleaned my spark plugs. in the process, i put the plugs and coils back in random order. still no misfires and no SES light. I could replace the plugs if I want, as i have a new set.

[az3579]

If it's not throwing any codes, then there's no point in replacing. Keep what you have - there's plenty of life left in those plugs.

[SaltyNC]

I have not been able to breach 18.4 mpg with mixed city & highway. Right now, after a couple days of just city driving, I am at 17.4. I live in Seattle's Eastside, which has its fair share of hills, but that means that for every hill I go up, there's a hill I go down.

You might want to check your brake calipers to see if one is sticking like mine was. I was getting ~22-23 MPG city. When the brake was sticking, it was low 19's and probably would have continued dropping had I kept driving it. You can feel for heat or throw some water on your rotor after a drive to see if it instantly turns to steam like mine did. :) After swapping calipers, I reset my MPG, and I'm now back to 23 MPG.

On your other question, this car has an auto, and I also noticed it will hold a lower gear going down a hill.

Salty

[papa_g]

You might want to check your brake calipers to see if one is sticking like mine was. I was getting ~22-23 MPG city. When the brake was sticking, it was low 19's and probably would have continued dropping had I kept driving it. You can feel for heat or throw some water on your rotor after a drive to see if it instantly turns to steam like mine did. :) After swapping calipers, I reset my MPG, and I'm now back to 23 MPG.

On your other question, this car has an auto, and I also noticed it will hold a lower gear going down a hill.

Salty

Interesting... I am going to jack up the car rn and measure my rotors. While I am there, I will check to see if one or more of the calipers is stuck.
I will be really pissed if I drove all the way from San Francisco with a stuck caliper... can't be good for the engine or tranny :(

[papa_g]

Ok so I only had the space and energy to measure one rotor, the right rear, and it is still well over minimum thickness (I measured in 2 spots and got 22mm and 24mm. Could not measure anywhere else because of the dust guard.)
However, this looks concerning to me. All my brake pads are in contact with the rotors when the car is parked. Is this normal??:

32006

[Sockethead]

Yes that's normal they are very close to the rotor at rest. If they were further away you'd have a lot of pedal travel before they engaged

[Sockethead]

On the spark plug thing, I had relatively new plugs in my car at one time and after winter storage, the car ran pretty rough, seemed down on power, etc. After checking everything, I swapped plugs out for new and the car was back to normal...

[SaltyNC]

Ok so I only had the space and energy to measure one rotor, the right rear, and it is still well over minimum thickness (I measured in 2 spots and got 22mm and 24mm. Could not measure anywhere else because of the dust guard.)
However, this looks concerning to me. All my brake pads are in contact with the rotors when the car is parked. Is this normal??:


You can try spinning each wheel with it mounted. It should not free-spin, but shouldn't be hard to turn, either. Checking for heat is easy. If it is sticking, after driving a mile, that rotor will be hot enough to feel through the wheel spokes. Or you can do like I did the first time and touch my finger to the rotor. If it sizzles and you feel extreme pain, the caliper is stuck. :)

Salty

[zhpnsnv]

I'm anywhere from 20-27 mixed highway and around town. Light winter wheels with skinny tires helps offset our winter mix fuel with ethanol. At least that's my uneducated guess. OBC reads 26.x currently.

157k miles. Just did fuel filter. All inspection ii items done around 130k.

Original o2 sensors and I'm not going to touch them until they go. Not interested in the battle with the post cat sensors unless someone knows of a sweet trick to get them out.

When they do go that will be a good excuse to get a sweet header set up.

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[Sockethead]

No point in changing the post cat sensors, all they do is make sure the cats are doing their job...

[papa_g]

On the spark plug thing, I had relatively new plugs in my car at one time and after winter storage, the car ran pretty rough, seemed down on power, etc. After checking everything, I swapped plugs out for new and the car was back to normal...
So were you like me, not seeing any codes either? I do get a rough idle when the car is warming up; it hums along at 750 rpm, then the needle drops to 700 with a 1-2 second rough patch, then back up to 750, and this happens as much as 10 times until the engine warms up. Despite what Dane said, I am going to try swapping the plugs to see if it helps. I got them off FCP, so i am not afraid to waste the old ones at this point.

You can try spinning each wheel with it mounted. It should not free-spin, but shouldn't be hard to turn, either. Checking for heat is easy. If it is sticking, after driving a mile, that rotor will be hot enough to feel through the wheel spokes. Or you can do like I did the first time and touch my finger to the rotor. If it sizzles and you feel extreme pain, the caliper is stuck. :)
Salty
I will give it a try tonight after my drive. Hopefully i don't feel pain, then a cold sensation, followed by the sweet smell of bbq ;).

[Sockethead]

No I didn't have any codes and the old plugs didn't look that bad. However, the car did run much better with the new ones... I was stumped but the car doesn't lie...

[papa_g]

I will give it a try tonight and let you know how it goes this week.... I forget, should I disconnect the battery before unplugging the coils?

[Sockethead]

No you'll be fine as long as the ignition is off. It's when you crank the motor that you run into problems...

[nextelbuddy]

Using the OBC I get around 17-18 city and about 26-27 on the highway.

[Dave1027]

My OBC says I'm averaging 24.9 mpg on 50/50 city/hwy driving. I checked it by monitoring how much gas I'm adding at the pump and doing the calculation. Turns out the OBC is a little bit of a liar. I'm really only getting 24.1. Still good for a one of these cars.

[slater]

i did a 550km trip yesterday, mostly highway, and averaged 29mpg with the long roof, roof rails, 3.46 diff, lead foot and a sticky RF caliper.

[papa_g]

Put in all new plugs (NGK BKR6EQUP), drove for 2 days city, granny style, averaged 16 mpg...sad

[slater]

Put in all new plugs (NGK BKR6EQUP), drove for 2 days city, granny style, averaged 16 mpg...sad

weird.

i run NGK BKR6E's (copper). they don't last as long, about 20K miles max, but copper is a better conductor than platinum.

[ELCID86]

I think @19mpg city is about what I was getting in my AT car when I had it.

Here’s my wife’s new car.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180221/5fc15fe9724876187833c6b6ad28be8b.jpg

[Sockethead]

I got 32 MPG on a round trip to Myrtle Beach up Rt 17... thought OBC was off with the tune the car has but I verified it with math.

[papa_g]

I am convinced my MPG is connected to my rough idle at cold start. To reiterate, I start the engine, in about 30 seconds it gets to 750 rpm, and maybe every 10 seconds rpms drop to 700, the car shakes for a second and goes back to the normal 750 rpm. I cleaned my MAF, ICV, throttle body & DISA + new o-ring, as well as addressing the vacuum leaks in the system. I don't smell gas anywhere so i don't think there's a leak. I do have a VANOS rattle, which I want to get fixed eventually.

[Sockethead]

Have you checked the vacuum hose that connects to the fuel filter?

[ELCID86]

Have you checked the vacuum hose that connects to the fuel filter?
Both ends (top connects to the F-connect --be careful not to break it...)

[SaltyNC]

I am convinced my MPG is connected to my rough idle at cold start. To reiterate, I start the engine, in about 30 seconds it gets to 750 rpm, and maybe every 10 seconds rpms drop to 700, the car shakes for a second and goes back to the normal 750 rpm. I cleaned my MAF, ICV, throttle body & DISA + new o-ring, as well as addressing the vacuum leaks in the system. I don't smell gas anywhere so i don't think there's a leak. I do have a VANOS rattle, which I want to get fixed eventually.

With all the other things you've replaced, you've probably already done this, but have you replaced the air filter?

Salty

[SaltyNC]

I just read that dirty air filters no longer affect fuel economy that much. The computer just adjusts everything to compensate.

Salty

[papa_g]

Have you checked the vacuum hose that connects to the fuel filter?

Both ends (top connects to the F-connect --be careful not to break it...)
Both hoses on the F-connectr have been replaced. I have not inspected the other end of the fuel filter line... i am assuming it is on the fuel filter behind the glove box?

With all the other things you've replaced, you've probably already done this, but have you replaced the air filter?
I replaced almost everything after buying this car, including air filters.

My new theory is that I need to do the vanos job. All my symptoms match up with typical leaky vanos symptoms:
Overall loss of torque and power, particularly in the lower RPM range. Intermittent bogging on cold start. Uneven power distribution and RPM transition. Engine hesitations in the lower RPM range (sometimes I will be driving in first gear, apply throttle, rpms will increase but car does not speed up, feels like a turbo lag!). Louder idle and intermittent idle RPM hiccups. Increased fuel consumption.
What do you guys think? I'm pretty set on getting the Beisan o-ring and antirattle kit at this point. Only thing that has stopped me from doing it yet is the fact that I JUST did my VCG.

[Sockethead]

yea, it needs to be done at some point, might as well get it out of the way. No worries with the valve cover gasket, you can reuse it.

[Sockethead]

I'd still check the vacuum line down by the fuel filter first though...

[papa_g]

yea, it needs to be done at some point, might as well get it out of the way. No worries with the valve cover gasket, you can reuse it.
That's good to know. I mean it was done less than 500 miles ago.

I'd still check the vacuum line down by the fuel filter first though...
I'll give it a look sometime next week. Finally getting her detailed tomorrow :roundel

In terms of vanos rebuild kit, does anyone know a reliable source other than Beisan or Dr. Vanos? $120 for the seals and antirattle kit, although a very good investment, seems like too much for a small handfull of rubber and metal. I saw ECS is doing a rebuild kit that also includes the vanos-cylinder head gasket, crush washers, and the plastic piston plugs, $124.

[Sockethead]

The guy at Beisan knows all there is to know about the VANOS I think that's one advantage you get with him.
If you have a problem, he knows how to fix it. After my last rebuild, I got a code for a stuck exhaust camshaft and he told me in great detail exactly how to fix it. I doubt the guys at ECS are going to have intimate knowledge of the VANOS

[papa_g]

That seems to be what a lot of people are saying; that and the viton o-rings actually have a different material core which prevents the viton from getting compressed and for the seal to lose its seal. I guess I can also be safe in knowing I am getting a high quality product and not some knock-off

[Dave1027]

They say that if you use premium gas as opposed to midgrade you will get better gas mileage which will make up for the extra cost of premium. I decided to test that theory. I ran a tank of midgrade and then a tank of premium and did the math. Here are my results:

MPG with Midgrade 24.08
MPG with Premium 24.2

Cost of Midgrade 3.12
Cost of Premium 3.24

MPG difference 0.5 %
Cost difference 4%

This test shows Midgrade gas is more cost effective in my zhp.

[SaltyNC]

That seems to be what a lot of people are saying; that and the viton o-rings actually have a different material core which prevents the viton from getting compressed and for the seal to lose its seal. I guess I can also be safe in knowing I am getting a high quality product and not some knock-off

Raj at Beisan pioneered the VANOS fixes, so I like to support the guy that came up with the solution, not the company copying it. Nothing against ECS, but just a preference. And as Sockethead said, Raj is great for support.

Good luck. Hopefully the VANOS is it. Either way, it's something that eventually needs to be done, so nothing lost. :)

Salty

[WOLFN8TR]

When I was rebuilding my Vanos with the Beisan Systems upgrades I had a question and called Rajae on Sunday. I was planning to just leave a message but he picked up. He was walking into Disneyland with his family and answered the phone to assist me. Excellent customer service! [emoji106]

[papa_g]

Just emailed him to learn some more about the product and explain my situation.

[ELCID86]

Both hoses on the F-connectr have been replaced. I have not inspected the other end of the fuel filter line... i am assuming it is on the fuel filter behind the glove box?




Fuel filter is under the car... driver’s side.

[az3579]

They say that if you use premium gas as opposed to midgrade you will get better gas mileage which will make up for the extra cost of premium. I decided to test that theory. I ran a tank of midgrade and then a tank of premium and did the math. Here are my results:

MPG with Midgrade 24.08
MPG with Premium 24.2

Cost of Midgrade 3.12
Cost of Premium 3.24

MPG difference 0.5 %
Cost difference 4%

This test shows Midgrade gas is more cost effective in my zhp.Actually, your car gets better mileage with Premium because that is what it requires. You shouldn't use anything less than 91 octane.

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[Rovert]

^ you’d kill me knowing what I put in my car. [emoji23]

Mileage hasn’t really changed and I can actually drive the car on winters without doing a smoke show at every stop sign. LOL.

I’ll figure it all out once the summers go back on.

[Wademco]

I am getting 26+ overall, mix between highway and town driving.

[papa_g]

Actually, your car gets better mileage with Premium because that is what it requires. You shouldn't use anything less than 91 octane.

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Agreed. However he means it is more cost effective to use mid grade. In other words, the MPG difference does not justify the cost difference.
Personally, this wouldn't deter me from using solely Premium gas.

[papa_g]

Fuel filter is under the car... driver’s side.

TY, i was reading on the forums that it was behind the glove compartment, which I thought was a weird place to put it in the first place, but then saw some DIYs on accessing it. Should be an easy one.

[az3579]

Agreed. However he means it is more cost effective to use mid grade. In other words, the MPG difference does not justify the cost difference.
Personally, this wouldn't deter me from using solely Premium gas.


Right, but what I'm saying is that the 330i requires the use of minimum 91 octane fuel (AKI), per the owner's manual. Using anything less could cause damage to the engine. Just trying to look out for y'all!

[Dave1027]

Agreed. However he means it is more cost effective to use mid grade. In other words, the MPG difference does not justify the cost difference.
Personally, this wouldn't deter me from using solely Premium gas.

Yep, I agree with your statement. Personally I would run premium mainly due to the fact that the difference in cost is so small, why not. The purpose of my experiment was only to run the numbers.

[Newjack]

Right, but what I'm saying is that the 330i requires the use of minimum 91 octane fuel (AKI), per the owner's manual. Using anything less could cause damage to the engine. Just trying to look out for y'all!

It's like saying its more cost effective for me to not buy shoes and just go barefoot everywhere. I'll destroy my feet but, you know, savings.

[danewilson77]

It's like saying its more cost effective for me to not buy shoes and just go barefoot everywhere. I'll destroy my feet but, you know, savings.Totally see both sides here but can you point me to an E46 that was "destroyed" by mid grade?

I use Shell (top tier) 91-93 btw and recommend it.

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[Newjack]

Totally see both sides here but can you point me to an E46 that was "destroyed" by mid grade?

I use Shell (top tier) 91-93 btw and recommend it.

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I can't list any off the top of my head, but making the car use its knock sensors to prevent premature detonation isn't something I want my car to be doing. I wouldn't potentially sacrifice the longevity of my engine just to save a few bucks. Why not just buy something else if that's the goal right?

I use Shell 93 too.

[danewilson77]

I can't list any off the top of my head, but making the car use its knock sensors to prevent premature detonation isn't something I want my car to be doing. I wouldn't potentially sacrifice the longevity of my engine just to save a few bucks. Why not just buy something else if that's the goal right?

I use Shell 93 too.:thumbsup

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[holyc0w]

I'm going to try Shell now seeing all the positive experiences. I usually stick to Mobil, BP or Shell, but lately it's been mainly BP with Mobil once in a while.

[papa_g]

I wish I could insert a poll into an individual post. What do you guys think though: Shell V-Power, or Chevron with Techron?

[danewilson77]

I wish I could insert a poll into an individual post. What do you guys think though: Shell V-Power, or Chevron with Techron?Shell. You could start another thread.

I know what the result will be though.

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[papa_g]

just PM me the result so i can go on with my life

[Vas]

Costco gas

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[ELCID86]

I try to stick to Top Tier has (filled up at Costco today!). I do use mid grade fairly regularly (I’m cheap). No noticeable MPG degradation.

[Sockethead]

We have a lot of Shells down here... and it's price the same as other gas so that's what I use but back in NJ, Shell was significantly more expensive than any other brand.

[az3579]

We have a lot of Shells down here... and it's price the same as other gas so that's what I use but back in NJ, Shell was significantly more expensive than any other brand.Oddly the Shell near my house is the cheapest top tier gas station around. Hell, the cheapo brand gas down the street costs more. Lol

Might even be the cheapest Shell in the county... Really lucked out with my location!

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[papa_g]

Oddly the Shell near my house is the cheapest top tier gas station around. Hell, the cheapo brand gas down the street costs more. Lol

Might even be the cheapest Shell in the county... Really lucked out with my location!

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The chevron near me is the cheapest high tier gas where I live, so I know what you mean! Plus they charge less if you pay cash. At least my location does.

[SaltyNC]

The Chevron near me used to sale 93 octane pure gas. It's the only place I had ever seen carry it. Oh man, it was so nice, but about a year or so ago, they changed it to 89 octane pure gas like most places carry for lawn equipment, etc. I now run Shell.

Salty

[az3579]

The chevron near me is the cheapest high tier gas where I live, so I know what you mean! Plus they charge less if you pay cash. At least my location does.

Those kinds of places drive me nuts. It's the 21st century; they need to get over the fact that credit card purchase charges are the cost of doing business and not treat CC users like second class citizens. Most of the places near work are actually cash-only, or have absurd minimum credit card limits like $10. Stuck in the last century... :facepalm

[san]

I get a discount from shell every time I fill up so even if it costs a little more, with the discount it ends up being even or sometimes cheaper...


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[az3579]

I get a discount from shell every time I fill up so even if it costs a little more, with the discount it ends up being even or sometimes cheaper...


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The rewards card used to offer 10c per gallon discount if you got more than I think 10 gallons of 93 V-Power at fill-up. Then they changed it and instead opted for 5c per gallon for any fill-up amount. Oh well!

[Sockethead]

The pure gas we have here is marine gas so it has the marine tax on it. Not only is it low octane, it cost more than premium

[Dave1027]

I try to stick to Top Tier has (filled up at Costco today!). I do use mid grade fairly regularly (I’m cheap). No noticeable MPG degradation.
I have to admit, when I was testing the difference between midgrade and premium, I could not tell the difference in the performance either. Probably would have needed to get the car on a dyno to see a difference. How long does it take for the computer to reset to premium gas?

[Newjack]

Those kinds of places drive me nuts. It's the 21st century; they need to get over the fact that credit card purchase charges are the cost of doing business and not treat CC users like second class citizens. Most of the places near work are actually cash-only, or have absurd minimum credit card limits like $10. Stuck in the last century... :facepalm

Cash will always been king. You can't track it which makes it that much more valuable to businesses and vendors. It does suck since I always use plastic, but I can understand why they do this.

[johnrando]

Modern engine computers will adjust to the lower octane but as many have said before, why buy a premium machine and not give it what it specs for, premium gas? I mostly use Costco 91 (which is Top Tier), ( btw, highest you can get out here octane wise) but you get a % back w a Costco card.

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[Alikessu]

i get about 20 mpg city and 26 hwy

[Rovert]

This is my ‘burb S54 mileage which is just over 26MPG. But it’s hard to compare to anyone else because everyone drives differently and drives within different elevation changes.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180227/846bab7a4b426b36685be99c15cb914a.jpg

I’m also using 87 octane in my engine temporarily so that I can drive the car without drifting the winter tires all over the place. lol. Once the PSS go on then 92 goes back in.

[papa_g]

how the hell are you getting 26 mpg city in an M3? smh... i really hope rebuilding my vanos will solve my problems. I also have yet to check my fuel filter vacuum line, and possibly replace my gas tank purge valve, as I think I just got another P0444. After that, the only other thing I might possibly blame is the winter blend fuel.

[Rovert]

how the hell are you getting 26 mpg city in an M3? smh...

LOL. This is ‘burb driving where blocks are long and stopping is short. City is much more horrible. I get like 19MPG. Haha. Highway for me is around 28-32 depending on elevation changes. My car must be magical or something. Or I’m just the weirdest M3 driver there is.

[slater]

LOL. This is ‘burb driving where blocks are long and stopping is short. City is much more horrible. I get like 19MPG. Haha. Highway for me is around 28-32 depending on elevation changes. My car must be magical or something. Or I’m just the weirdest M3 driver there is.

it's the ceramic coating inside your engine. tell them about your oil analysis.....

[az3579]

I’m also using 87 octane in my engine temporarily so that I can drive the car without drifting the winter tires all over the place. lol. Once the PSS go on then 92 goes back in.

This makes no sense. LOL

[Rovert]

This makes no sense. LOL

Timing is held back just a tad and it's just enough to get on power without the back letting go so instantly in the rain! :D I can normally spin in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear. Now it's just 1st and most of 2nd. LOL

[az3579]

Timing is held back just a tad and it's just enough to get on power without the back letting go so instantly in the rain! :D I can normally spin in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear. Now it's just 1st and most of 2nd. LOLIsn't that what throttle control is for? lol

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[slater]

Timing is held back just a tad and it's just enough to get on power without the back letting go so instantly in the rain! :D I can normally spin in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear. Now it's just 1st and most of 2nd. LOL

yep, in the wet i can spin all the way through 1st and 2nd, sometimes third. i have to exercise judicious throttle control.



Isn't that what throttle control is for? lol

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this is trevor we're talking about here. :)

[Rovert]

Isn't that what throttle control is for? lol


I'm Vincebarred. No need for throttle control anymore. It can take it. :P

The S54 is a hyper maniac on catnip and caffeine at the same time that you're constantly trying to make submit. The problem is that it's character translates into the driver at times and when they clash there is NOTHING you can do which results in spinning, drifting, burnouts... Discipline is usually met through DSC light blinking and a sudden hand slapping your butt telling you to behave. It's a very unnerving feeling but if I can get a balance without DSC slapping my senses into submission, then I remain a happy driver and so does the M. Make sense? LOL

[slater]

I'm Vincebarred. No need for throttle control anymore. It can take it. :P

The S54 is a hyper maniac on catnip and caffeine at the same time that you're constantly trying to make submit. The problem is that it's character translates into the driver at times and when they clash there is NOTHING you can do which results in spinning, drifting, burnouts... Discipline is usually met through DSC light blinking and a sudden hand slapping your butt telling you to behave. It's a very unnerving feeling but if I can get a balance without DSC slapping my senses into submission, then I remain a happy driver and so does the M. Make sense? LOL

amen, brother. ///Makes sense. i can relate!...to the bold bit, the Vincebarred bit, etc. my car goads me sometimes... it's like an on/off switch. light throttle and cruising @ 90km/h? no problems. as soon as i dip into the throttle... i gotta try to control myself, because the car just comes alive.

[papa_g]

Did a ~130 mile round trip consisting of 99% freeway, and averaged 28.6 mpg (averaged 29.5 on the first leg), so highway MPGs are good. Replaced my purge valve, fuel filter vacuum hose, did the vanos last night. Now I am waiting for my city MPG to stop sucking.

[SaltyNC]

:like