Car "bouncy"

[swchang]

For the past few months, I've noticed that my car bounces up and down more when going over bumps. When I corner in a spirited manner and hit a bump, it feels like the car actually leaves the ground briefly.

Any thoughts as to what might be the issue? Rear shocks? I have an 04 with about 165k miles.

[BMWCurves]

When were the shocks last replaced?

[swchang]

Never...

[sillieidiot]

yeah you need a suspension refresh

[swchang]

So, what do you think needs to be replaced? I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to this stuff, as will become evident very shortly:

Shocks? Springs? Coils? Sways?
Front and rear?

[BMWCurves]

If the car has never had its shocks replaced, they're long overdue, as are most of the suspension components.

Let me direct you to my suspension refresh guide: http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?16182-Help-with-Suspension-Refresh-at-50k-miles-10-years

[swchang]

Thanks! Will check it out now.

[GotZHP]

yeah you need a suspension refresh

+1

My car has been feeling the same recently. Started my refresh project with new tie rods. Looking to then get shocks/struts/springs next. My car has been bouncy too now that I took the ~200lbs of tools that have been in the back for over a month now.

[BMWCurves]

Thanks! Will check it out now.

I should add that there are other components not in that guide that you might consider, such as tie rods and other bushings. Other members can chime in on what they think ought to be replaced in addition to the parts mentioned in my thread.

[swchang]

That is a crapton of parts that you replaced. I was hoping it would be something simple like, "Replace the rear shocks." Sigh.

Well, I'm planning on DDing this car for another three years, and then keeping it on as a third car / autocross car afterwards. I guess it's probably worth it to put some money into it. Would be a lot easier if I could just tell my indy shop to "fix the bounciness," though...

[GotZHP]

That is a crapton of parts that you replaced. I was hoping it would be something simple like, "Replace the rear shocks." Sigh.

Well, I'm planning on DDing this car for another three years, and then keeping it on as a third car / autocross car afterwards. I guess it's probably worth it to put some money into it. Would be a lot easier if I could just tell my indy shop to "fix the bounciness," though...

27736

[BMWCurves]

That is a crapton of parts that you replaced. I was hoping it would be something simple like, "Replace the rear shocks." Sigh.

Well, I'm planning on DDing this car for another three years, and then keeping it on as a third car / autocross car afterwards. I guess it's probably worth it to put some money into it. Would be a lot easier if I could just tell my indy shop to "fix the bounciness," though...

You could skip some of those items, but at 165k miles, most of them are probably due. If you're planning to hold onto it like you said, I think it's worth doing.


27736

:rofl

Ain't that the truth. With an E46 we're battling mileage and age.

[az3579]

That is a crapton of parts that you replaced. I was hoping it would be something simple like, "Replace the rear shocks." Sigh.



The sad reality of these cars is that they cost a metric butt-ton to maintain properly. Unfortunately you will not end up with a tight feeling E46 without having to replace large quantities of parts on a set schedule.

There's nothing wrong with replacing 'just this' or 'just that', but the car will never feel as good as it once did by going this route.

I've driven my car for about 181k miles under my ownership (currently has 256k) and can attest to how tight my car feels purely because of refreshing everything on a schedule. I've done entire suspension refreshes twice. I've replaced my entire cooling system two or three times. I've replaced whatever emissions equipment needed replacing at their respective intervals so I wouldn't have to stare at an SES light. As a result? My car probably feels better and is tighter than the vast majority of cars for sale (non enthusiast cars) with a quarter of the mileage. :thumbsup

Ultimately, you get what you put into it. If you're going to keep it for another three years, then you should definitely spend the money in stages before you reach the point where the car's too far gone to recover without spending a lot of money at one time to repair.

I must've spent at least $10-15k in maintenance and upgrades since I've owned the car (6 years), including labor costs. It's a scary number now, but by staying on top of it, it's not so bad. :)

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[san]

Ya as others have said at 165k miles you are long overdue for some new suspension parts and maybe some other components as well depending on what has and has not been replaced... Ive averaged about $2k per year on mods and maintenance over the last 2 years and some of it has to do with the amount of driving I did too ( >25k miles in the last year) but if you plan to drive this car everyday and especially if this is your only car now it's better to replace a lot of parts before they fail, which they will inevitably, it's just some leave you stranded on the side of the road (cooling system) and some just annoy you (suspension parts squeaks and rattles)...


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[slater]

That is a crapton of parts that you replaced. I was hoping it would be something simple like, "Replace the rear shocks." Sigh.

Well, I'm planning on DDing this car for another three years, and then keeping it on as a third car / autocross car afterwards. I guess it's probably worth it to put some money into it. Would be a lot easier if I could just tell my indy shop to "fix the bounciness," though...

well, at 165K miles, you have wear in lots of places. replacing one item - like the rear shocks - is only going to reveal the next weakest link. with that method, if you're not DIYing, you'll be making 15 trips to your mechanic.

short list:

- front struts and rear shocks (konis are a great choice for stock springs)
- front strut mounts and rear shock mounts
- RTABs
- FCABs
- front swaybar endlinks
- rear outer control arm bushings (upper is a ball joint, lower is rubber)

check other areas (tie rods) for play. you're looking at roughly $1100 in parts for the above list, but they will last 10 years.



The sad reality of these cars is that they cost a metric butt-ton to maintain properly. Unfortunately you will not end up with a tight feeling E46 without having to replace large quantities of parts on a set schedule.

first off, i don't feel like they cost a lot to maintain. drive an older audi for a few years - the BMW will feel like a bargain. and, really, ANY 11-13 year old car is going to cost a lot to maintain, especially if you decide to maintain it to the level that you maintain your car (as some of us do as well).




I've driven my car for about 181k miles under my ownership (currently has 256k) and can attest to how tight my car feels purely because of refreshing everything on a schedule. I've done entire suspension refreshes twice. I've replaced my entire cooling system two or three times.

yes, however that may be overkill for a 'normal' owner. you've also put 181K miles on, for most folks that is a 15-year ownership period. you're also not driving those components to a failure, you're replacing as a preventative measure. it's apples to oranges compared to how most folks maintain a vehicle.

i personally am on the preventative side of maintenance, but i also recognize that my standards are not necessarily 'normal.' :)



I must've spent at least $10-15k in maintenance and upgrades since I've owned the car (6 years), including labor costs. It's a scary number now, but by staying on top of it, it's not so bad. :)

well, how much of that was upgrades? how much was necessary? (like replacing your cupholder. ;)) seriously, i would be interested to know.

i've spent $8K CAD on my car in the last 2.5 years. about 75% of that was upgrades. so that's well under $1000/year for maintance (which includes major refresh items), and no car payments. in its current state, the car should only require basic maintenance for many years (which i am really looking forward to!! perhaps i can actually spend time washing it now!! ;)).

bottom line, they aren't crazy expensive to maintain, to a normal standard. and they are easy to work on.

:cheers

[Vas]

Honestly by the sound of it, you are better off getting some new shocks and the install kit that covers installation.

Then replace the fcab and rtab and have the car aligned.

[san]

first off, i don't feel like they cost a lot to maintain. drive an older audi for a few years - the BMW will feel like a bargain. and, really, ANY 11-13 year old car is going to cost a lot to maintain, especially if you decide to maintain it to the level that you maintain your car (as some of us do as well).


i've spent $8K CAD on my car in the last 2.5 years. about 75% of that was upgrades. so that's well under $1000/year for maintance (which includes major refresh items), and no car payments.


Driving an Audi might make the e46 feel like a bargain but at the same time driving a Toyota or Honda will make the e46 feel like a money pit right? [emoji6]

Also I don't think any car 11-13 year old car will cost a lot to maintain. German cars yes, American cars maybe not as much as German cars but Japanese cars definitely not... again it all depends on which car specifically but but I don't think all 11-13 year old cars will need $2k-$3k in 2 years...

What upgrades did you make for $6k CAD? On top my head I can only think of the LSD, m3 seats and catch can...



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[Sockethead]

I'd just replace the front and rear shocks and the front lower control arm bushings and see how it feels from there. Those items are relatively inexpensive and will most likely cute the issue you describe.

I swapped out my front lower control arms and rear trailing arm bushings at around 141k and the old ones were in great shape. I could of gotten a lot more out of them. Not everyone's car will be like that but just take it one step at a time. If you're not OCD like like most of us here, you'll probably be fine.

[slater]

Also I don't think any car 11-13 year old car will cost a lot to maintain. German cars yes, American cars maybe not as much as German cars but Japanese cars definitely not... again it all depends on which car specifically but but I don't think all 11-13 year old cars will need $2k-$3k in 2 years...

american cars are not built as well (in my experience), and i know plenty of people with ~11-13 year old american cars that have ditched them in favor our german or japanese. my neighbor has an early 2000s chevy truck that he's put several thousand into in the last two years. and a friend with an older honda has put the same in - a timing belt change is around $500-$800 alone. we don't need to do that. :) heck, my mother-in-law dropped about $1500 on her 10-year old odyssey about 6 months before she gave it to us - and it was only worth about $800 at that point. i had to fix it to even get it home!

and let's also take into account that a lot of people who own those cars (toyotas and hondas specifically, in my experience) defer a lot of maintenance. case in point - my wife used to complain to me a lot about car maintenance... "my parents never had to do anything to their cars when i was growing up." yes, well - they bought them new, drove them hard for 8-10 years, didn't do any maintenance aside from yearly oil changes, and then sent them to the scrapyard. were they ahead financially? perhaps. did they dodge some maintenance bullets? perhaps. personally, i sleep better knowing that when i send my family off in one of our cars, that i know what state things are in - and that the likelihood of sustaining a failure on the road is pretty low.

:)



What upgrades did you make for $6k CAD? On top my head I can only think of the LSD, m3 seats and catch can...

LSD and M3 seats alone were $2400. catch can is trivial... well, i just bought a 42draftdesigns 'ultimate' can, which was $250. ouch. :)

apex ARC-8s and michelin PSS were $2500.

suspension... oh dear. probably $1000 of excess over what i could have spent doing OEM replacement stuff.

M3 wheel, BMW Performance exhaust, xenon upgrades, aFe intake.... paint respray. ;) new windshield (not cracked, but pitted). it adds up!

[Karl Lazlo]

Driving an Audi might make the e46 feel like a bargain

Ain't that the truth. I have posted my opinions about Audis on this very forum. The term "basketcase," comes to mind.

[slater]

Ain't that the truth. I have posted my opinions about Audis on this very forum. The term "basketcase," comes to mind.

let's not forget my dad's favorite, "nickel and dime you to death." in both his and my experiences... it's not upgrades, but little crap breaking that keeps the car from running, or running correctly. blarg.

yet... what does he drive? 2007 RS4 cab, and he's got stuff lined up to build an S2. nuts.

[fw_fw]

I'd just replace the front and rear shocks and the front lower control arm bushings and see how it feels from there. Those items are relatively inexpensive and will most likely cute the issue you describe.

I swapped out my front lower control arms and rear trailing arm bushings at around 141k and the old ones were in great shape. I could of gotten a lot more out of them. Not everyone's car will be like that but just take it one step at a time. If you're not OCD like like most of us here, you'll probably be fine.

+1

I had my suspension refreshed on my ZHP last month. I knew the shocks/struts were shot, so had those on hand. I also purchased every rubber mount and bushing from FCP Euro, all along the lines of the list in BMWCurve's thread. I had my indy do the work, and he verified before installation that the bushings/mounts were actually bad before he replaced them. Turns out in my case (77K) only some of the items needed replacing along with the shocks. I them simply returned the unused parts to FCP for a full refund as they have an excellent return policy. This way I had everything needed on hand at a discount price that they could have needed, saving some money there. Some indy shops may not let you provide parts, so keep that in mind. So this approach may work for you as well......

[az3579]

well, at 165K miles, you have wear in lots of places. replacing one item - like the rear shocks - is only going to reveal the next weakest link. with that method, if you're not DIYing, you'll be making 15 trips to your mechanic.

Agreed.



first off, i don't feel like they cost a lot to maintain. drive an older audi for a few years - the BMW will feel like a bargain. and, really, ANY 11-13 year old car is going to cost a lot to maintain, especially if you decide to maintain it to the level that you maintain your car (as some of us do as well).

Well, all of the German brands available in the U.S. are expensive cars to maintain compared to brands from other nations. You won't spend half of what you spend on a German car maintaining a Japanese one. Of course that's relative to whether you bought a premium brand or an economy brand, but still. I told someone who owns a Corolla once how much I spent on maintaining my car and he nearly had a heart attack. This is someone who keeps his cars for a long time (his Corolla is 10 years old, bought it new). Of course, you don't get the driving experience in a Corolla, but it definitely outlines how expensive our BMWs are to maintain. "You gotta pay to play" comes to mind, and as much as I hate that way of thinking, it's true every time I test it. :(



yes, however that may be overkill for a 'normal' owner. you've also put 181K miles on, for most folks that is a 15-year ownership period. you're also not driving those components to a failure, you're replacing as a preventative measure. it's apples to oranges compared to how most folks maintain a vehicle.

The maintenance that has to be done is almost the same whether a car is driven 5k a year or 35k a year. Someone who drives less will definitely spend less because they don't hit those numbers often enough, but those components may still fail from age (depending on what the component is), so low-mileage drivers aren't exactly exempt. You are right that the reason I drive so much does matter - I drive a LOT of highway and long trips, so I make sure that my car isn't going to break down on me, because it is a horrible feeling when you are stranded far away from home. Tows are very expensive as well, and if you've reached that point, you probably can't do the work on it yourself due to a lack of tools and parts, so a shop in the area will have to do it. All of a sudden, that inconvenience ended up costing you a lot more money than if you just have a shop fix it preventatively (or do it yourself). Of course if you only drive short trips, this isn't a factor at all, so you can afford to not have to replace quite so much. It's definitely a "analyze your situation" kind of deal.



well, how much of that was upgrades? how much was necessary? (like replacing your cupholder. ;)) seriously, i would be interested to know.

Most of the stuff I buy for my car is maintenance-related upgrades. I don't typically go and upgrade something just to do it; I implement maintenance upgrades when the original items are due for replacement, so killing two birds with one stone. So, my "armrest delete" you mention, may not be a necessary upgrade, but stuff like that doesn't happen that often, and try to do upgrades like that as cheaply as I can by selling other stuff I don't need to make up the cost for it. This is why I don't have big ticket items on my car, like an LSD - it's not a necessary upgrade and my existing differential operates fine, so it's an unnecessary expense at the moment. If I had a blown differential, then I'd spend the extra money and upgrade to an LSD, killing two birds with one stone. Trust me, I'm pretty cheap when it comes to upgrades "just for the heck of it". :)

Overall, of the maintenance upgrades on my car, the cost difference between the OE replacement product and the upgrade usually isn't that much. There are some exceptions (like my brakes), but stuff like bushings and the like don't exactly have big price differences.



bottom line, they aren't crazy expensive to maintain, to a normal standard. and they are easy to work on.

I'm just going to leave this here for you, and this is just one example. Search online to find similar stories.
I have a friend who has a first-gen X3. He tells me that every single time he brings it in for service, he usually ends up leaving with a $500 - $2000 bill. It is maintained at an indy mechanic that I am familiar with (and trust). Enough things go wrong with it (because he's not anal about preventative maintenance) and he's in there quite frequently, perhaps 3-4 times a year, replacing stuff that has failed. Not doing his own work, it adds up. The parts prices are ridiculous being a BMW, which is a challenge in itself compared to other brands.

Definitely not a cheap affair owning blue-and-white if you don't do your own repairs. There's a reason so many people only buy/lease new BMWs and then discard them after the warranty is up! Our E46's were new once too, and the same thing happened back then.




and let's also take into account that a lot of people who own those cars (toyotas and hondas specifically, in my experience) defer a lot of maintenance.

Yes, unfortunately this is true. The difference in "getting away with it" is that those who barely maintain those cars don't suffer as much of a driving experience loss as you do with something premium such as a BMW. If something's broken on a BMW, you definitely notice it because it greatly detracts from the driving experience, or worse, leaves you stranded. If something's broken on a Corolla... "what's that noise?" shrug, and move on, and it usually ends up being fine for a while. The way those two cars are driven is quite different, so they highlight issues differently.


With all this being said, I've considered getting cheaper cars because it really is crazy how much I spend on this car, but then every time I drive it, I remember that it's all worth it. I don't need a new car because from a tightness/freshness perspective, it would feel almost the same. Now that's a good feeling! When a ZHP is kept up in maintenance, it's hard to beat the feeling of driving it, that's for sure. I guess it all comes down to your priorities... do you want a ZHP to feel as good as it possibly can (and spend crazy amounts of money doing it), or do you just want to have a ZHP that's "fun enough" to drive and not have to worry about going bankrupt? That's a tough choice sometimes even for me. I just wish I wasn't so darned anal about this stuff. lol

[fw_fw]

....and be thankful that it's a 3 series: BMW sells as more 3-series worldwide as Honda sells Accords in the US, so there are many 3rd party parts manufacturers out there. You move to a 5, 6, or even 7 series, then parts get to be much more exclusive to BMW OE only, which is why a 5 year old 5 or 7 series costs as much on the used car market as the 3 series.

[sillieidiot]

I don't think our cars are expensive to maintain at all. It's pretty cheap compared to some imports and stuff too. The problem I have is that when something is broken, I start looking to upgrade to something better if there is anything better. So now stuff costs more lol If it was just a straight replacement it would be fine. And then I go ahead and upgrade stuff that I have to take off along the way, because well I'm already taking it off, might as well lol

I like how you guys are calculating the costs of upgrades and maintenance throughout the years you had it though. I'm never doing that again lol I tried once like 5 years ago, I didn't even finish and it was already more than 50% of what my car was worth when I bought it. I just stopped lol

[BMWCurves]

"Mission creep," "Might as well fix some other stuff while I'm in there," "I don't need to buy food this month," are all phrases I think we're intimately aware of when maintaining our cars.

[san]

american cars are not built as well (in my experience), and i know plenty of people with ~11-13 year old american cars that have ditched them in favor our german or japanese. my neighbor has an early 2000s chevy truck that he's put several thousand into in the last two years. and a friend with an older honda has put the same in - a timing belt change is around $500-$800 alone. we don't need to do that. :) heck, my mother-in-law dropped about $1500 on her 10-year old odyssey about 6 months before she gave it to us - and it was only worth about $800 at that point. i had to fix it to even get it home!

and let's also take into account that a lot of people who own those cars (toyotas and hondas specifically, in my experience) defer a lot of maintenance. case in point - my wife used to complain to me a lot about car maintenance... "my parents never had to do anything to their cars when i was growing up." yes, well - they bought them new, drove them hard for 8-10 years, didn't do any maintenance aside from yearly oil changes, and then sent them to the scrapyard. were they ahead financially? perhaps. did they dodge some maintenance bullets? perhaps. personally, i sleep better knowing that when i send my family off in one of our cars, that i know what state things are in - and that the likelihood of sustaining a failure on the road is pretty low.

:)




LSD and M3 seats alone were $2400. catch can is trivial... well, i just bought a 42draftdesigns 'ultimate' can, which was $250. ouch. :)

apex ARC-8s and michelin PSS were $2500.

suspension... oh dear. probably $1000 of excess over what i could have spent doing OEM replacement stuff.

M3 wheel, BMW Performance exhaust, xenon upgrades, aFe intake.... paint respray. ;) new windshield (not cracked, but pitted). it adds up!

Oh ya, I forgot about the wheels and tires!


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[holyc0w]

"You gotta pay to play" comes to mind, and as much as I hate that way of thinking, it's true every time I test it. :(
...
With all this being said, I've considered getting cheaper cars because it really is crazy how much I spend on this car, but then every time I drive it, I remember that it's all worth it. I don't need a new car because from a tightness/freshness perspective, it would feel almost the same. Now that's a good feeling! When a ZHP is kept up in maintenance, it's hard to beat the feeling of driving it, that's for sure. I guess it all comes down to your priorities... do you want a ZHP to feel as good as it possibly can (and spend crazy amounts of money doing it), or do you just want to have a ZHP that's "fun enough" to drive and not have to worry about going bankrupt? That's a tough choice sometimes even for me. I just wish I wasn't so darned anal about this stuff. lol


That's definitely true, though I do wonder at times about other options I could've bought (Mustang, BRZ/FRS, Miata, 370Z). It would be interesting to see the maintenance costs compared. I would think some of these would come out a good chunk ahead, though initial buy-in would be higher.

[danewilson77]

Coilovers or bust.

S7 Edge, out

[slater]

Of course, you don't get the driving experience in a Corolla, but it definitely outlines how expensive our BMWs are to maintain. "You gotta pay to play" comes to mind, and as much as I hate that way of thinking, it's true every time I test it. :(

yep. we're all here because we want and appreciate a car like the ZHP - and those kind of experiences won't be possible in a corolla. however, i think they're still a bargain compared to what it would cost to buy a new one. or even a new corolla!



Most of the stuff I buy for my car is maintenance-related upgrades. I don't typically go and upgrade something just to do it; I implement maintenance upgrades when the original items are due for replacement, so killing two birds with one stone. So, my "armrest delete" you mention, may not be a necessary upgrade, but stuff like that doesn't happen that often, and try to do upgrades like that as cheaply as I can by selling other stuff I don't need to make up the cost for it. This is why I don't have big ticket items on my car, like an LSD - it's not a necessary upgrade and my existing differential operates fine, so it's an unnecessary expense at the moment. If I had a blown differential, then I'd spend the extra money and upgrade to an LSD, killing two birds with one stone. Trust me, I'm pretty cheap when it comes to upgrades "just for the heck of it". :)

haha. but what about your NB interior? M3 mirrors? ;)

i agree on the two-birds bit. it helps when you can almost justify it. but then... i think, hey, life is short, and it's only money - you'll make more. :) once i stopped worrying about money i became a lot happier and less stressed out.



Overall, of the maintenance upgrades on my car, the cost difference between the OE replacement product and the upgrade usually isn't that much. There are some exceptions (like my brakes), but stuff like bushings and the like don't exactly have big price differences.

yeah, brakes. but yeah, i agree on the upgrade path. it makes sense for things like bushings, tires, brake pads, etc.



I have a friend who has a first-gen X3. He tells me that every single time he brings it in for service, he usually ends up leaving with a $500 - $2000 bill. It is maintained at an indy mechanic that I am familiar with (and trust). Enough things go wrong with it (because he's not anal about preventative maintenance) and he's in there quite frequently, perhaps 3-4 times a year, replacing stuff that has failed. Not doing his own work, it adds up. The parts prices are ridiculous being a BMW, which is a challenge in itself compared to other brands.

true, but this conversation is strictly related to the ZHP/E46 platform. the X3, X5, etc are totally different reliability ballparks. notice how i don't own an E70 X5 even though i wanted one badly when we were in the market for a 7-seater - research showed time and time again that it was a maintenance nightmare, even for DIY stuff (trans failure being the major one, but lots of stupid little electronic stuff).



Yes, unfortunately this is true. The difference in "getting away with it" is that those who barely maintain those cars don't suffer as much of a driving experience loss as you do with something premium such as a BMW. If something's broken on a BMW, you definitely notice it because it greatly detracts from the driving experience, or worse, leaves you stranded.

yep, exactly. apples to oranges. which is fine, i'm quite content to drive and maintain the ZHP. :)



I guess it all comes down to your priorities... do you want a ZHP to feel as good as it possibly can (and spend crazy amounts of money doing it), or do you just want to have a ZHP that's "fun enough" to drive and not have to worry about going bankrupt? That's a tough choice sometimes even for me. I just wish I wasn't so darned anal about this stuff. lol

haha, i hear ya. i have the montero as well, which is kind of the opposite end of the spectrum, in many ways, from the ZHP. however i do still maintain it to a high standard, as it's my wife's vehicle. and i do upgrade where necessary. but i also don't worry about making a mess in the interior (road trips, food, or hauling 17 x 66lb bags of concrete like i did the other day. :) there's still dust all over the back, i'll vacuum it out eventually. ;)



Oh ya, I forgot about the wheels and tires!

it's crazy how quickly it adds up.



Coilovers or bust.

LOL. i really want to try koni yellows with stock springs, with the rest of the bits i've got installed. i think it could be a great setup. i love my bilstein PSS, but sometimes it's a bit busy on really bumpy stuff. but that's nit-picking... i'm sure the transient response of the stock spring/koni setup won't be as sharp as with the bilstein PSS. and i like that response. they actually get better the harder you push them. it's a weird sensation.

[sillieidiot]

"Mission creep," "Might as well fix some other stuff while I'm in there," "I don't need to buy food this month," are all phrases I think we're intimately aware of when maintaining our cars.

Only for crazy people like us lol I deal with a lot of "normal" people. They never think about that lol It's more like how much? ok can I go aftermarket to go cheaper? ok do that ONLY. Few months later the part in Step 4 of 5 breaks and I have to go back in and do 80% of the install again. Pisses me off, but I guess I get paid twice though.

[slater]

Only for crazy people like us lol I deal with a lot of "normal" people. They never think about that lol It's more like how much? ok can I go aftermarket to go cheaper? ok do that ONLY. Few months later the part in Step 4 of 5 breaks and I have to go back in and do 80% of the install again. Pisses me off, but I guess I get paid twice though.

true. you can't decide for them, though - at least you make a recommendation. if they decide to only do part of the work, and you warn them, well... that's the best you can do. at least you're being honest and up front about it.

[az3579]

"Mission creep," "Might as well fix some other stuff while I'm in there," "I don't need to buy food this month," are all phrases I think we're intimately aware of when maintaining our cars.

Mission creep... story of my life. lol



haha. but what about your NB interior? M3 mirrors? ;)

Just when you think you got me... BAM!

NB interior was paid for by selling my old one... hell, I actually made a very slight profit buying the NB interior, which wasn't my intention. It came with a bunch of extras that I sold off that I didn't need. :)

M3 mirrors were already on the car when I bought it.

As I said, I try to make sure my costs are covered by selling other stuff whenever possible! It doesn't always work out, but somehow I manage to cover most of my costs with something else to balance it out. It's PFM!

It also helps that Charlie practically modded at least a quarter of my car to begin with. lol



yep, exactly. apples to oranges. which is fine, i'm quite content to drive and maintain the ZHP. :)

Hence why I still have one. Downgrading is not an option. :)