Looking for spring info

[kbcons]

My ZHP ('03, sedan, 6MT, Alcantara), as I bought it, has been lowered. Looks to be substantial in the front, but I haven't yet pulled tires off to get a proper look at the springs. The previous owner replaced struts & shocks when he did the springs, and they have relatively few miles on them.

Having said that, I'd like to get the car to factory height (or so), or at least to a height where I don't have to worry so much about beating up the front apron. The car is a daily driver, so clearing driveways and such is important to me. I don't mind a firm ride, but I also don't want to get beat up.

I'm trying to read up on OEM springs to the point that I'm comfortable buying used. Maybe here, maybe CL, but used because new is WAY more expensive that I can handle right now. Then again, because buying used can be a bit of a crap shoot, I don't want to rule out aftermarket springs (H&R, Eibach, et al), but any lowering would have to be minimal.

As I read here and over on E46Fanatics, I end up with more questions than answers. Here are a few:


Are ZHP springs the same as Sport Suspension (ZSP?) springs?

How do ZHP springs compare to M springs?

I understand that I need to stay within body style (sedan, coupe, convertible), and transmission as well. Should I be concerned with lesser options, such as radio type, seats, etc?

Am I correct in being less concerned about age/miles than about all four being the same age/miles (same car)?

It seems that color stripes are the nitty gritty of spring rate. For a car this age, should I be concerned about this?


I'm sure I could come up with more questions, but I gotta start somewhere.

Thanks!

Ken...

[sillieidiot]

I wouldn't go with M3 springs. Although it does fit, it lifts the car way higher than stock. The springs are also larger so you could run into issues with clearance with your wheels (at least in the front).

ZHP/ZSP should have the same springs.

You only need to stay between sedan/coupe to be safe. I'm unsure if there are any differences with the vert. But I'd just stay away from that to be safe. Also xi's are different as well I believe. There's no differences in springs with any other options really.

mileage doesn't really matter. but you don't one that is way too old like 80k or something. Because the older they get, the quality goes down, also they break.

The ride quality is probably going to get better when you raise it up since there is more suspension travel now.

Whatever springs you have now, I'm sure that you can sell/trade them for stock ones if you wanted. At least it will help to save you money. I don't find springs to be all that expensive even when new (for aftermarket) tbh. It's like $350-$500. Sell your old ones for like $150-$200 (if they were aftermarket lowering springs like your said), then buy new ones. Buying used ones goes from like $50- $150 i guess.

[kbcons]

I wouldn't be averse to buying new aftermarket, but who/where? H&R has their OE Sport line (small drop) but it doesn't look like they have them for the E46, just the Sport and Pro. I don't believe Eibach has anything with a small drop. Tein has a small drop, but that's an inch on the front.

Ken...

[sillieidiot]

Well it's an inch for non-sports. At least that is how most manufacturers measure the drop. The H&R sport is also a mild drop (again because they measure it from non-sports). We need to know what springs you are coming from though. Not sure about the Tein H-techs, but the S-techs has a big drop. H&R race also has a big drop and very firm ride. The only springs I've installed that I've considered to have a mild drop were the Eibach's proline (or something like that) and the H&R sport.

also, if you're fine with the current ride height other than scraping in the front, have you thought about making scrape plates? I have aluminum scrape plates that I made for mines, and I pretty much just let it scrape everywhere now LOL I do attempt to avoid it, but when it does it's perfectly fine lol

[kbcons]

Well it's an inch for non-sports. At least that is how most manufacturers measure the drop. The H&R sport is also a mild drop (again because they measure it from non-sports). We need to know what springs you are coming from though. Not sure about the Tein H-techs, but the S-techs has a big drop. H&R race also has a big drop and very firm ride. The only springs I've installed that I've considered to have a mild drop were the Eibach's proline (or something like that) and the H&R sport.

I may well do the H&R Sports. They say it's .75 front and .25 rear. The front, as it is right now, is slammed.


also, if you're fine with the current ride height other than scraping in the front, have you thought about making scrape plates? I have aluminum scrape plates that I made for mines, and I pretty much just let it scrape everywhere now LOL I do attempt to avoid it, but when it does it's perfectly fine lol

No, not fine with it. Front is WAY too low to be tractable where I need to go.

I'll keep looking.

Anyone else? I'm looking for any/all opinions & facts.

Thanks!

Ken...

[sillieidiot]

Hmm I don't know of any springs that slam the car pretty low except for the Tein S-techs, which I have ran in the past. All the others tend to lower about as far as H&R race does (which is low, but nowhere near slammed imo).

I'm sure if you want zhp springs, just post a WTB here for them. Plenty of members are swapping them out for cheap coils and would be glad to get rid of their stock ones. That would probably the easiest and cheapest solution. Then you don't have to think about which springs you want to go with.

I'm pretty sure other people are just waiting on you to look under your car to tell us about the springs/shocks that you are running. we need that info to make better recommendations and to know where you're at. Like for example, you could actually be running H&R sports and think it's slammed. In that case, I would totally recommend going stock.

[kbcons]

Got the wheels off for a look-see:

Shocks/struts:


Bilstein B8 Sport: 35-115106 (L Front), 35-115113 (R Front), 24-026987 (Rears)

Springs:


Eibach Sportline: F21-20-001-02-VA (Fronts), F21-20-001-02-HA (Rears)

They've all got about 63,000 miles on them and appear to be in good shape.

Because the shocks/struts are designed for lowering, am I correct in thinking that using OE springs might not be a good idea? H&R Sport springs, or others with that sort of drop, are starting to look like a direction I may be headed.

Edit: Just got off the phone with Bullet Performance. The Bilstein B8s need to be run with lowering springs of some kind. The old adage, "Your results may vary" comes into play if OEM springs are used.

Edit too: This little project was going to be one of those, "All in good time" things. However, it took on a note of urgency yesterday on southbound I5 in Irvine (CA). There are a couple of rough transitions from pavement to overpass. They're a pretty good hit for a normal height car, but they bottomed the front suspension at freeway speed. It didn't break anything, but it was a helluva wake up call. I'll be putting H&R Sports on it Thursday.

Ken...

[Vas]

I have no experience with the Eibach or the Bilstein shocks/struts but all the reviews I read stated that they ride really firm.

When I did the overhaul of the suspension on my wife's zhp, I went with Koni Yellow and H&R sport spring. She has no trouble getting around town with the car being lowered and the ride is compliant with the setting set a bit firmer then stock.

[kbcons]

I have no experience with the Eibach or the Bilstein shocks/struts but all the reviews I read stated that they ride really firm.

I had Bilstein HDs on a Jetta and they really firmed up the ride. Not harsh, but definitely firm. For normal driving on fairly smooth streets, the B8s are more comfy than the HDs were.

I'll find out how they are with the H&R Sports later on this week.

Ken...

[sillieidiot]

Got the wheels off for a look-see:

Shocks/struts:


Bilstein B8 Sport: 35-115106 (L Front), 35-115113 (R Front), 24-026987 (Rears)

Springs:


Eibach Sportline: F21-20-001-02-VA (Fronts), F21-20-001-02-HA (Rears)

They've all got about 63,000 miles on them and appear to be in good shape.

Because the shocks/struts are designed for lowering, am I correct in thinking that using OE springs might not be a good idea? H&R Sport springs, or others with that sort of drop, are starting to look like a direction I may be headed.

Edit: Just got off the phone with Bullet Performance. The Bilstein B8s need to be run with lowering springs of some kind. The old adage, "Your results may vary" comes into play if OEM springs are used.

Edit too: This little project was going to be one of those, "All in good time" things. However, it took on a note of urgency yesterday on southbound I5 in Irvine (CA). There are a couple of rough transitions from pavement to overpass. They're a pretty good hit for a normal height car, but they bottomed the front suspension at freeway speed. It didn't break anything, but it was a helluva wake up call. I'll be putting H&R Sports on it Thursday.

Ken...

lol 5 freeway. All of those overpasses suck. on a stock car with soft suspension, that also bottoms out lol In my car, it feel like a sudden drop from a rollercoaster since my suspension is currently too stiff.

Yeah those shocks are made for lowering springs. So H&R sport is probably the mildest drop you could go for. The Eibach Pro-line I think is a little less too but I don't remember.

Also, since you are going to be taking the shocks and stuff off to swap the springs. You might want to put in some reinforcement plates for the fronts while you're at it. They are only like $20. The rears, you won't be taking off so it's fine. But I would put some RSMs too if you want to.

[kbcons]

lol 5 freeway. All of those overpasses suck. on a stock car with soft suspension, that also bottoms out lol In my car, it feel like a sudden drop from a rollercoaster since my suspension is currently too stiff.

Those whoops when you transition from overpass to pavement are big, but not exactly deal breakers - at least for me. I'm talking about the ones from pavement to overpass. The one going over Newport is a killer. HUGE step up to the concrete of the overpass.


Also, since you are going to be taking the shocks and stuff off to swap the springs. You might want to put in some reinforcement plates for the fronts while you're at it. They are only like $20. The rears, you won't be taking off so it's fine. But I would put some RSMs too if you want to.

I'll run this by Peter when I drop it off tomorrow morning.

Thanks!

Ken...

[sillieidiot]

Yeah going up it I have no problem. I just let off the gas a little and then punch it just before i get there to shift the weight back a little. But sometimes, I actually make a lane change during those transitions. Basically hitting it at an angle lol Well at least that's what I used to do before with softer suspension. Now that it's all stiff and messed up, it doesn't weight shift as much. Plus I have those scrape plates now so I don't even care about scraping as much. It just sounds awful, but every time I look, everything is good.

Oh yeah, the reinforcement plates on the front will raise the car a couple mm. I didn't measure it, but since I have coilovers, I measured it in terms of how many threads lol I believe it was 2 threads lol The RSMs don't do anything for height in the rear. But those rubber pads on the top/bottom do. I assume you'll have both the pads anyways.

[kbcons]

The car had a pretty big day at Bullet Performance!

Replaced the Eibach springs with H&R Sport springs. Much nicer height for me.
Replaced strut and shock mounts. The old ones were shot.
Replace lower control arm bushings. The old ones were falling apart.

The car just sits nicer. Ride is firm but not at all harsh, as expected with the B8 shocks. It's also quieter with no creaking.

Like a whole new little beastie to drive.

Also took care of a couple mechanical issues that had reared up; one related to cooling (a couple hoses had been covered in power steering fluid, which attacks the hoses) and the A/C needed a recharge.

Overall, it was a pretty spendy day. But it was money well spent because reliability takes a nice jump.

Ken...

[sillieidiot]

cool, glad you got it all worked out.

[Vas]

Any pics ?

[kbcons]

Any pics ?

Not yet - sorry. I'll try to get a couple tomorrow, if I don't melt in this heat.

105 today, and I'm only 8 miles from the coast (south Buena Park). My brother is out in Moreno Valley - 102 at 9:00 AM.

Ken...

[kbcons]

Sorry about the back-to-back posts, but a couple pics are in order.

Also sorry for the less-than-stellar angles, but hopefully this will give you an idea of the height difference. The front is about an inch and a half higher. The rear seems to be a little higher. As I mentioned above, ride quality is firm but not harsh. Handling is a little different, with turn-in not quite as sharp as previously. Certainly not bad at all. I'm thinking that a strut bar may bring back that sharpness. Thoughts?

This is the car with the Eibach Sportlines

http://www.bassesbyleo.com/bmw_stuff/IMG_1227.JPG

And here are a couple with the H&R Sports

http://www.bassesbyleo.com/bmw_stuff/IMG_1252.JPG

http://www.bassesbyleo.com/bmw_stuff/IMG_1253.JPG

Thanks to all for your input!

Oh yeah.... 113 degrees on the driveway when I took those last two pics.

Ken...

[sillieidiot]

Nah the strut bar isn't going to make the turn in sharper. You have to be pushing it a lot more to feel the strut bar. Like around some hairpins or something. But you should get an alignment. The current specs are now off because you raised the car, then go from there. You decreased your natural camber by raising the car already. Maybe the PO added some toe out to the car too. I'd play with the alignment settings first before anything. And then if I were to get something, it would be sways before a strut bar. Best bang for your buck mod imo.