EAG Does it Again: 2004 Imola/Alcantara 6spd Sedan - LOW MILES

[Vas]

VIN is registered with the following information:
VIN: WBAEV53434KM07305 AutoCheck®
Date Registered: 5/24/2016
Model Year: 2004
Production Date (Mo/Yr): n/a
Exterior Color: Imola Red
Interior Color: Black Alcantara
Transmission: Manual 6SP
Body Style: Sedan 4D

According to EAG, 1 Owner car with 30,970 miles.

Asking Price $23,990

http://enthusiastauto.com/qsearch/?id=5390&form_display=51

[NorCalZman]

I can't believe people pay these prices. 24k for a 12 year old 330i (yes I know 30,000 miles).

[az3579]

I can't believe people pay these prices. 24k for a 12 year old 330i (yes I know 30,000 miles).

:facepalm

[cakM3]

I can't believe people pay these prices. 24k for a 12 year old 330i (yes I know 30,000 miles).

Because somebody will eventually buy this car at this price, that's why...

[NoVAphotog]

Because somebody will eventually buy this car at this price, that's why...

+1

Gotta keep the value of our ZHPs up somehow...

[KevinC]

The average new car price today is up in the $32k range. And for that you get an "average" boring car. Yes, $24k is sky-high for an old BMW, but for a 1-owner, super-low-mileage example in outstanding shape, at $8k less than some Camry or Hyundai.. it's not as crazy as may seem on the surface.

[az3579]

it's not as crazy as may seem on the surface.

Yes it is.

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[Schlag96]

It's not crazy. There's a bell curve on every car. Just because it's an outlier doesn't make it any less valid a price than any other example of an age/mileage/price combo. EAG deals in outliers because people are around that want outliers. It's called the free market.

Now, paying for a new car and driving it off the lot and losing 20% of the value in 15 seconds - THATS crazy.

[NorCalZman]

Because somebody will eventually buy this car at this price, that's why...

Something to keep in mind, EAG can put whatever price on their website for their cars they want. They obviously don't disclose what the car REALLY sells for. They probably got that car for 15k, put maybe a few hundred bucks into detailing it, and listed it for 24k. They might get 24k, or they might end up getting 19 or 20k.

[fredo]

One member here bought a 5 series at EAG. I remember he said there was little or no room for negotiations.

[illirep]

They are notorious for not negotiating on price. I would bet they paid in the high teens and put a few grand into this car - rubber alone is $1k.

There are bargain hunters, who only care about price and value. There are those that are willing to pay a premium to own the best example.

Some buyers are happy with a base 320i for $300 per month, while others will pay $600 for a loaded 335i.

Hell, you can spend $21k on a new Camry, or you can spend $35k on a new Camry.

Same concept here. That is economics 101.

What I don't get is why there is a constant argument that these cars have become so undervalued. These are highly desired cars that folks are willing to pay a premium for.

$25k for a like new ZHP, $500 for a dynavin, and you have a car that is more fun than and technologically on par with any midsize sedan you can buy new today. 10 years old or 15 years is completely irrelevant. Hell, if anything, it's age is a positive as it won't drop 60% in value in 3 years like that Camry will!


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[Pupil_Heads]

$24k for a ZHP? You can get a brand new Honda Civic, or Ford Fiesta ST for that price. I've seen the E46 M3s as well on that site, and they're pretty expensive (like you can get an E90/E92 M3 for the same price, and mileage, but younger)


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[chacend]

$24k for a ZHP? You can get a brand new Honda Civic, or Ford Fiesta ST for that price.

Right, but what would you rather drive. The ZHP or the Civic?

[Pupil_Heads]

Right, but what would you rather drive. The ZHP or the Civic?

The ZHP, ofcourse. However, that's just too much for a 12 year old car (Not unless its condition is like a brand-new car, then it's reasonable).

[NYRhockey]

The ZHP, ofcourse. However, that's just too much for a 12 year old car (Not unless its condition is like a brand-new car, then it's reasonable).

Given the mileage and the source i'd say that is going to be a delicious car. If i had the resources i'd have no problem buying from EAG. They sell unique, low-mileage, mint-condition cars, not everyday Accords.

[NYRhockey]

It's not crazy. There's a bell curve on every car. Just because it's an outlier doesn't make it any less valid a price than any other example of an age/mileage/price combo. EAG deals in outliers because people are around that want outliers. It's called the free market.

Now, paying for a new car and driving it off the lot and losing 20% of the value in 15 seconds - THATS crazy.

I understand your point on depreciation, but in this case you're taking a depreciation hit of 50% or more once you drive off EAG's lot. Once you own this car you better not get into an accident on the way home because it's priced so far above any book value (KBB/Nada) that you'll take an absolute bath if you total it. That said, i'd have no problem buying this car or from EAG in general. 

[BMWCurves]

Something to keep in mind, EAG can put whatever price on their website for their cars they want. They obviously don't disclose what the car REALLY sells for. They probably got that car for 15k, put maybe a few hundred bucks into detailing it, and listed it for 24k. They might get 24k, or they might end up getting 19 or 20k.

I think they've done more than just detailing. Per their description:

Service Highlights Include a Complete 10-year Service which includes: engine oil + filter change, transmission fluid change, differential fluid change, coolant flush, brake fluid flush, power steering fluid flush, engine air filter and fuel filter replacement. Additional Preventative Maintenance items include a Cooling System Update with water pump, thermostat, expansion tank + coolant hoses, engine drive belts, front control arm bushings and new Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires.

For a car with 30k miles and 12 years old, it's pretty much set to go for a long time.


One member here bought a 5 series at EAG. I remember he said there was little or no room for negotiations.

I believe that was KevinC with his M5.

[mercury26]

Once you own this car you better not get into an accident on the way home because it's priced so far above any book value (KBB/Nada) that you'll take an absolute bath if you total it. 

You pointed out a very real issue, unless you can get agreed upon value insurance from your insurance provider then you could end up in a massive hole. I sold my 1982 Porsche 911 last year because of this reason. The car was worth WAY more than my insurance company was willing to pay. An accident alone is bad enough, let alone being massively upside down on the car.

[az3579]

You pointed a very real issue, unless you can get agreed upon value insurance from your insurance provider then you good end up in a massive hole. I sold my 1982 Porsche 911 last year because of this reason. The car was worth WAY more than my insurance company was willing to pay. An accident alone is bad enough, let alone being massively upside down on the car.

And this is why ZHPs are practically worthless from a value perspective in comparison to the "crack pipe" prices being sought for cars like this. At the end of the day, how much will the buyer realistically receive if something happens to the car? Not even half of what this car is listed for. You can argue "it's worth what someone pays for it", but that doesn't fly when it comes time to either sell it or fight with an insurance company if something was to happen to it. Want to pay more for agreed value insurance? Go for it, assuming you don't fall into one of those loopholes that insurance companies like to use to get out of paying what you're expecting.

Ultimately, you can have a car that is a lot more current, more efficient, faster, and has better integrated and functional technology (Dynavin doesn't cut it, sorry) for the same price. As a car meant for daily driving, it's not a good buy at that price, due to its age and how outdated it is. As a car that someone buys to enjoy driving, that's up to whoever overpays for it. There are plenty of much, much cheaper ZHPs to be had, ones that are well maintained to boot. I don't know why mileage has to be a factor in that decision to pay so much for a BMW that is over a decade old.


Personally, I feel that this "keeping the values up" argument is a fallacy in the real world. Maybe one day I'll understand why people think this, but I doubt that day will ever come.

[illirep]

I understand your point on depreciation, but in this case you're taking a depreciation hit of 50% or more once you drive off EAG's lot. Once you own this car you better not get into an accident on the way home because it's priced so far above any book value (KBB/Nada) that you'll take an absolute bath if you total it. That said, i'd have no problem buying this car or from EAG in general. 

So you honestly believe this car is only worth $12,500 if sold private party, outside of EAG?

[danewilson77]

About $18k is sweet spot.

S7 Edge, out

[KevinC]

That was me that bought the E39 M5 from EAG a year ago. And... I just sold it back to Eric. Took a nice haircut, of course, but got about what I would have gotten private party for it. The car just didn't turn my crank - too big, too heavy. Recirculating-ball steering FAR inferior to ZHP steering feel & handling. Awful electronics, no Bluetooth, "M-audio" sound system that sounds like ass. I love my GF's '15 Golf TDI, have owned many Golf/GTI's in the past myself. Sprung for a new Golf R on Monday night. REALLY happy with it thus far. Still keeping the ZHP, it's not going anywhere, and will continue to amass at least 50% of my driving smileage.

[BMWCurves]

From our own "what did you pay" thread (chart link (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FUWpdcPerF3UNTwj5AQoMDn-1MTfdhRaylJr7lGTmtw/pubchart?oid=289040793&format=interactive), thread link (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?16528-How-much-did-you-pay-for-your-ZHP-Data-Collection-Consolidation)), it would be worth somewhere around $20k. That's just a rough estimate. My father got his 2006 330Ci w/ 29k miles and ZCW and ZPP for under $18k.


That was me that bought the E39 M5 from EAG a year ago. And... I just sold it back to Eric. Took a nice haircut, of course, but got about what I would have gotten private party for it. The car just didn't turn my crank - too big, too heavy. Recirculating-ball steering FAR inferior to ZHP steering feel & handling. Awful electronics, no Bluetooth, "M-audio" sound system that sounds like ass. I love my GF's '15 Golf TDI, have owned many Golf/GTI's in the past myself. Sprung for a new Golf R on Monday night. REALLY happy with it thus far. Still keeping the ZHP, it's not going anywhere, and will continue to amass at least 50% of my driving smileage.

So the M5's gone, sold back to EAG? Interesting, it's a shame it didn't really click for you, but hey, it's just a car. Congrats on the Golf R! I'm envious of the purchase, is it the newest model? Those look like great cars and everyone seems to like them. Post pics/info on it when you can.

[mercury26]

That was me that bought the E39 M5 from EAG a year ago. And... I just sold it back to Eric. Took a nice haircut, of course, but got about what I would have gotten private party for it. The car just didn't turn my crank - too big, too heavy. Recirculating-ball steering FAR inferior to ZHP steering feel & handling. Awful electronics, no Bluetooth, "M-audio" sound system that sounds like ass. I love my GF's '15 Golf TDI, have owned many Golf/GTI's in the past myself. Sprung for a new Golf R on Monday night. REALLY happy with it thus far. Still keeping the ZHP, it's not going anywhere, and will continue to amass at least 50% of my driving smileage.

Congrats on the Golf R, I just returned my leased 2013 Golf R (Mark VI). Loved the car, but VW did not treat me well. Which is too bad, since I have been a VW brand advocate for close to 30 years. The new Golf R (Mark VII) is awesome looking, love the lines and design.

[KevinC]

She's brand new, March '16 build date, fully loaded except DSG (manuals only for me since my first car way back when). I even managed to score her better than $800 back of sticker. Asswipe dealers in SoCal still slapping "market adjustment" BS on new R's. Only Oryx White R in stock anywhere in Phoenix. I'll start another thread tomorrow night with more pics and impressions.

[cakM3]

She's brand new, March '16 build date, fully loaded except DSG (manuals only for me since my first car way back when). I even managed to score her better than $800 back of sticker. Asswipe dealers in SoCal still slapping "market adjustment" BS on new R's. Only Oryx White R in stock anywhere in Phoenix. I'll start another thread tomorrow night with more pics and impressions.

Congrats Kevin on the new "R"... looking forward to pics of your new whip :thumbsup

[TheFinanceGuy]

Honestly, I love my ZHP. I'd be willing to pay upwards of $18k for a lower mileage ZHP that would give me any problems.


*Disclaimer, I'm assuming that ALL maintenance is up to date. I mean all, VANOS rebuilt, DISA done, Cooling overhaul, no oil leaks, new fluids all around, new rubber, ect. Basically as if this car was new off the lot in 2004.

[slater]

$24k for a ZHP? You can get a brand new Honda Civic, or Ford Fiesta ST for that price. I've seen the E46 M3s as well on that site, and they're pretty expensive (like you can get an E90/E92 M3 for the same price, and mileage, but younger)


Right, but what would you rather drive. The ZHP or the Civic?


The ZHP, ofcourse. However, that's just too much for a 12 year old car (Not unless its condition is like a brand-new car, then it's reasonable).

precisely. we are all here because we have a passion for these cars - not because they make financial sense to drive, which is why i am constantly scratching my head at some folks here who give the "you can get a brand new civic..." argument, because it's completely apples to oranges.

we all keep these aging cars on the road because we appreciate them - economics kinda go out the window. i will say that my ZHP, even though i have put as much into it as i paid for it (my choice, it was not necessary!) - is still a bargain in my eyes.



About $18k is sweet spot.

i think so - i'd pay that. you're getting as close to a new ZHP as you realistically could!

[NoVAphotog]

precisely. we are all here because we have a passion for these cars - not because they make financial sense to drive

we all keep these aging cars on the road because we appreciate them - economics kinda go out the window. i will say that my ZHP, even though i have put as much into it as i paid for it (my choice, it was not necessary!) - is still a bargain in my eyes.


Pretty much sums it up. I could have gone out and bought a brand new Mazda 3 (Civic, Sonata, GTI, yada yada yada) for $18-25k when I graduated like all my non-car buddies. Warranty, safety, actually pretty good handling, etc. (Higher insurance, car payment, etc)

Instead, I discovered the ZHP. A rear wheel drive, 6-speed manual, sexy car that was mine for less money. Was able to pay it off quickly and met not only the Family on here, but a lot of other friends in the area at Cars and Coffee events where I CAN park in the line up...alright..well..maybe not the main drag...but with some of the other BMWs. That Mazda 3...is going in the back lot because no one gives a shit about it and there a million others like it.

NOT to mention, the autox events and the track weekend...learned so much about my car and driving...as well as made new friends.

I HATE when we talk about pricing these things. We complain about the value of them being diddly squat and then complain when they are priced with inflated value as if they were a special car that should increase in value over time because it's rare or something...and I'm not calling anyone out, I do it too! When someone asks if it's a good deal on a CL find or something, it's not like we are going to tell them to tell the seller, "hey this is a ZHP, it's worth more than that, here is an extra $2k!"

[slater]

I HATE when we talk about pricing these things.

agreed!!



We complain about the value of them being diddly squat and then complain when they are priced with inflated value as if they were a special car that should increase in value over time because it's rare or something...and I'm not calling anyone out, I do it too!

same here. i'm always on the hunt for deals... but can appreciate when someone sells (and gets) appropriate money for one.

[SCA]

About $18k is sweet spot.

S7 Edge, out

+1

[D1ESEL]

They do not like to negotiate at all but they have some of the best cars around

[yura]

The average new car price today is up in the $32k range. And for that you get an "average" boring car. Yes, $24k is sky-high for an old BMW, but for a 1-owner, super-low-mileage example in outstanding shape, at $8k less than some Camry or Hyundai.. it's not as crazy as may seem on the surface.

On the flip side, the new car will come with new technology, new safety features, and warranty. No to mention all new mechanical parts that don't have 12 years of life on them, drying rubber parts, etc. Furthermore, the average new car will be much easier to re-sell for a reasonable depreciation hit.

But all that said, some enthusiast will definitely end up buying this ZHP. There's a market for them.

[Vas]

Car is SOLD even before the pictures became available.

[slater]

Car is SOLD even before the pictures became available.

wow...

[NoVAphotog]

Excellent. Happy for them and our cars.

[330blast]

Holy Macro.

[BMWCurves]

I was wagering it would take 1-2 months, not a week.

[BADCLOWN]

I hate their pricing don't get me wrong but the flip side, as it's always been, is you get what you pay for. I had them fix my passenger front door a few years ago when my neighbor backed into my grey ZHP and it came back mint.

Being able to look at their inventory in person is nice, the options are there and they cater to every enthusiasts needs with their inventory. Gorgeous cars they are but heavy on the wallet.

[SCA]

Car is SOLD even before the pictures became available.

That's just nuts!

[cakM3]

Not surprised to see this car sell. I'm sure the buyer, whoever they are, feels it was money well spent. Congrats to them whoever they are and hope to see him/her on this forum. [emoji1360]


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[Wisco]

I called to ask about the car, but was told a local buyer was in the showroom looking at it and they would "get back to me". Ha! They were signing the deal while with the other guy while I was on the phone. Oh well, onto another opportunity... but with a lot more miles on her and more maintenance to do when I get her.