Interested in a ZHP - Advice and Conversation - Future Value

[EaglesFan9]

Hi Everyone,

New guy here! Owned a bunch of e36's but I recently just bought a 2014 VW GLI. To be honest, it's a good car, but it just doesn't give me the feeling of my 328's. Recently a 2004 Black ZHP coupe 6MT went up for sale locally for $14.5k that has had a fair amount of recent maintenance (brakes, water pump, tires, etc). Initially I blew it off, after all, $14k for a 10+ year old car is fairly expensive, especially for it not being a coveted ///M (will have a lein on the vehicle).

But over the past few days, I have been thinking thoroughly if it would be worth trading in a practically new car, with updated amenities and a warranty (unfortunately it doesn't cover valve cleanings :( ) for an 'old' car. My self-debate always arrives back at the same issue - how well will the car hold it's value. Of course it is a depreciating asset, but the e36 M3 is sky rocketing in price while the e36 328/325 are muddling around 2k-5k.

The ZHP is, of course, not an M but it isn't a 325 either - and for this reason I am curious to see what this community thinks of the future value of the ZHP's. In 4 years when the car is nearly 20 years old and has 100k, will the ZHP still have a niche market and be desirable?

Of course, any opinions regarding my situation would be valued as well :)

Thanks guys!

[NoVAphotog]

Hi Everyone,

New guy here! Owned a bunch of e36's but I recently just bought a 2014 VW GLI. To be honest, it's a good car, but it just doesn't give me the feeling of my 328's. Recently a 2004 Black ZHP coupe 6MT went up for sale locally for $14.5k that has had a fair amount of recent maintenance (brakes, water pump, tires, etc). Initially I blew it off, after all, $14k for a 10+ year old car is fairly expensive, especially for it not being a coveted ///M (will have a lein on the vehicle).

But over the past few days, I have been thinking thoroughly if it would be worth trading in a practically new car, with updated amenities and a warranty (unfortunately it doesn't cover valve cleanings :( ) for an 'old' car. My self-debate always arrives back at the same issue - how well will the car hold it's value. Of course it is a depreciating asset, but the e36 M3 is sky rocketing in price while the e36 328/325 are muddling around 2k-5k.

The ZHP is, of course, not an M but it isn't a 325 either - and for this reason I am curious to see what this community thinks of the future value of the ZHP's. In 4 years when the car is nearly 20 years old and has 100k, will the ZHP still have a niche market and be desirable?

Of course, any opinions regarding my situation would be valued as well :)

Thanks guys!

I wouldn't say the E36 is "sky-rocketing." At least not compared to the E30 M3. I don't think it's "time" as come yet. Sure, SUPER SUPER SUPER clean, low mileage ones will fetch higher prices but the "average" E36 M is not insane yet. Were you referring to the E46 M? Similar thing there I think as well.

That said, many have different opinions on this. It really is too hard to tell at this point in time. You are never going to have "mainstream" folks interested in paying top dollar for our cars, I say that only with my experience of going to cars and coffee events and car meets. EVERYONE flocks to the ///M. One or two will trickle over and admire my car and ask about it or say how great ZHPs are and we have a good conversation. Now, I'm not sure that experience really translates to the "market" so to speak as I know when I talk about or show off my car in random places and other forums people do freak out about it and recognize the ZHP for what it is.

I personally believe our cars will continue to hold steady at least. Some on here are VERY pessimistic about this concept and it really bothers me. I mean, there is an entire forum devoted to these cars, a website to track them, when I do find people to talk to about them it is VERY clear they hold up to a higher standard among the BMW lineup over the years. Definitely when it comes to the driving feel compared to the new ones, the ZHP wins.

As for your situation, are you set on a ZHP coupe or is that just the one that popped up? I think there is an allure for the sedans that will preside longer than for the coupes. I'm biased, of course, but when I think about "why' the ZHP package existed it was to offer SOME degree of enhancement to the 4 door 3 series. For that kind of money and if you want a coupe, I'd pay a little more and have a note on an ///M.

Otherwise, there have been some great sedan examples for sale recently on here, where you could get into them without a note. And of course, the best kind of car is the paid off kind. Get into a ZHP without a note and put a little towards maintenance and you are good. No car payment, cheaper insurance, etc.

[3ZHP]

I'm with Daniel on this one. I've had my ZHP for 9-1/2 years and have suffered from lack of attention. Showed the car in many shows but, have only won in the all German shows. If its people's choice, I know I haven't got a chance, even with the best detail in the show. When I go to cars-n-coffee I already know I won't be in the posted picks from the event photographer.

So with that being said, I don't think the ZHPs will ever have a large enough following to bring significant collector money


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[BMWCurves]

I agree with Daniel pretty much in full. Despite what some people say or joke, I do believe ZHPs are special cars. I cannot think of any car I have driven that has the excellent blend of daily comfort and utility while maintaining excellent road feel and handling (I badly want to try a current-gen Golf R or GTI). The other consideration is that you can work on a ZHP ourself, which is a lot more than you can say about present BMWs. E46s are also one of, if not THE best looking BMWs ever made. I know that's subjective, but a pretty serious number of people would agree with you. However, ZHPs not the flagship models that people tend to gravitate towards to like the M of every generation.

I'm really not sure if ZHPs will hold their value or not. BMW didn't have many "performance package" type cars up to the mid-2000s as far as I know, so the ZHP is a bit of an oddity for BMW. That said, I think clean examples will hold somewhere in the low teens. If their value does increase, I would think the sedans will do so more than the coupes. This is chiefly because the sedan is the closest to a factory M3 sedan you could buy, and that's the draw. Furthermore, they have better torsional rigidity, so should be better handling cars, although I doubt the average person will notice. One alternate point to this is that sedans are more common by about 2:1 compared to coupes.

The "problem" with ZHPs is that because they are such good daily drivers that people will rack up miles on them. Few people will treat them like weekend toys like an M and it'll become increasingly tough to find a ZHP with less than 100k miles.

As for your situation, you definitely take a step down in amenities when going from a modern car to a ZHP, but I don't really find I'm missing much. Maybe Bluetooth connection for my phone, but that's easy enough to solve. How many miles does the coupe you're looking at have?

[3ZHP]

Some of the earlier performance Bimmers carried a "Is" badging. Example e30, 318Is.


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[BMWCurves]

True, that's one I was thinking of. E30 320is comes to mind as well, like this one (http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1988-bmw-320is/)

[jwalther]

I wouldn't spend $14k for a ZHP that's going to be used as a DD if you are concerned about depreciation. There are lots of nice sub $10k examples that will better hold their value over time.

[san]

I have to agree with what the others said above, if you want to DD the car then Zhp is perfect... BUT I don't think it will appreciate or hold value IMHO... I bought my 06 Zhp in September 2014 with 95k miles on it for $14k, now did I overpay? Maybe a bit but that was pretty much the asking price for the zhp's 2 years ago... About the same time 2 of my friends also bought zhp's, an 04 with 122k miles for $11.8k and a 05 with 85k miles for $13k... I was looking for sub 100k miles and they were all pretty much listed at above $12k, but that doesn't seem to be the case now... For a little more than the price I paid one can have a similar condition e46 M3... As you said the Zhp is not an M car and the Zhp will lose its value as the "price gap" between the Zhp and e46 M3 reduces...
If you buy a Zhp with with ultra low miles and not drive it much that might appreciate in a few years time, but if you are going to DD it then I don't think it will hold value or appreciate...


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[EaglesFan9]

Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful response - not a single troll response! :roundel

Here is my thought process (read: wishful thinking) - in 4 years the car will have approximately 100k miles - my ambitious thinking is that the car would still be worth around 10k - does that sound reasonable?

Basically, I view the ZHP as a fun, relatively quick, adequate for AutoX and a comfortable DD that I would be able to work on. Plus, the port injected N/A straight six is a dead breed, so I would love to get another before they go extinct :)

Thanks again!

[az3579]

Here is my thought process (read: wishful thinking) - in 4 years the car will have approximately 100k miles - my ambitious thinking is that the car would still be worth around 10k - does that sound reasonable?


You can get them for that price now, so I doubt they'd be worth that much in 4 years time.

[Vas]

A buddy of mine made the switch from a fairly new jetta gli to an 05 6spd zhp sedan. Has no regrets.

[Garagebound]

Daily driving and depreciation go hand-in-hand no matter the make and model of the car. There are very few exceptions. You can select special edition models like ZHPs that will do better at holding their value, but still depreciate and I find it hard to believe that even a well bought ZHP, used as a DD (at least 10K/year), would depreciate much less than $1000/ year. IMHO, the loss in value is best offset by driving enjoyment. This is where I believe the ZHP rises above others, certainly above a GLI and 328 ZSP, former Wolfsburg and E36 ZSP owner here.
We all need to define and prioritize our transportation requirements, but from the sound of it, I believe that a ZHP could be a great option for you. It is why I am now here as well.

[quikryptonite]

A lot of us here have plans to drive our cars until they die. I bought my car with 60k on the clock and just barely hit 100k. I've put about 6k miles on per year. I'd never be able to get what I believe this car is worth from someone else. Like others have said, it's a great blend of performance, practicality and fun. If you're looking to sell a few years from now, you may want to look elsewhere. If you want a great machine that will provide smiles for years to come, get a ZHP.