i would never sell my car to a KKB at value

[L0veZHP]

25982

I would never sell my car for 7k! More like 17k! My cars condition is excellent and I have history on all its maintence and new K1 Suspension, CSL wheels! Avviyn HU Unit! Bavsound speakers! New steering Wheel, BMW performance everything expect the UUC Corsa Exhust! gruppe M intake! Carbon fiber parts in the engine. Coolant overhaul, vanos check! New tires rims! Diana strut bar! Pulleys! Angel eyes HID Fog lights! Imola Red!!! Tell me how could my car go for 7k! ZHP Speical! More like 15-17k to me. But idk what could you do about it? Lol what do you guys think?

[BADCLOWN]

Mods don't really dictate price so much as condition and mileage. Take that with a grain of salt of course.

[az3579]

25982

I would never sell my car for 7k! More like 17k! My cars condition is excellent and I have history on all its maintence and new K1 Suspension, CSL wheels! Avviyn HU Unit! Bavsound speakers! New steering Wheel, BMW performance everything expect the UUC Corsa Exhust! gruppe M intake! Carbon fiber parts in the engine. Coolant overhaul, vanos check! New tires rims! Diana strut bar! Pulleys! Angel eyes HID Fog lights! Imola Red!!! Tell me how could my car go for 7k! ZHP Speical! More like 15-17k to me. But idk what could you do about it? Lol what do you guys think?


What you think your car is worth and what it's actually worth are two very different things. E46's aren't really worth much anymore.

[L0veZHP]

What you think your car is worth and what it's actually worth are two very different things. E46's aren't really worth much anymore.


I know that's crazy tho! I thought at least 10k lol I'll probably never sell my ZHP

[az3579]

I know that's crazy tho! I thought at least 10k lol I'll probably never sell my ZHP

10k is a lot more reasonable. There are many ZHPs in excellent condition that are around that price range.
KBB provides a base reference. Actual car values may fluctuate a little from that figure.

[Aeternalis]

All things being equal, modifications generally tend to detract from the value of a car to an average buyer.

I plan on being the last owner of my ZHP. There's zero chance of recouping anything close to what I've put into it so far, and I'm okay with that. It's a beautiful, comfortable, and capable machine.

[terraphantm]

I bought my first ZHP in 2008 for $15k with 64k miles. No way I'd pay $17k for a ZHP now. That money is M3 territory. $7k sounds about right to me.

[Oli77]

Unfortunately, the KBB is what potential buyers look at first before they call you. Just happens that 2 days ago, I got a text about my Sienna I am
trying to sell. First thing the guy asked was what is the KBB value?
So I checked, and realized I was $1200 ABOVE KBB. The guy now has an angle to push my asking price down.

You don't want to worry about that KBB on your ZHP, just keep it forever (and don't add up the totals on your yearly spreadsheets-you don't want to know).

Personally, this is why I only maintain my car and will never mod it much at all, it just is an unnecessary cost to me.

[BMWCurves]

I think the idea of "value" is assessed somewhat differently in the used car market compared to new cars or other products. The fact that this (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FUWpdcPerF3UNTwj5AQoMDn-1MTfdhRaylJr7lGTmtw/pubchart?oid=289040793&format=interactive) graph of Mafia purchases within the last three years illustrates that there is a market for ZHPs in the $12-17k range, well above assessed KBB values. Whether or not people consider those prices as inflated compared to the car's utility or perceived value, if a transaction occurs between a buyer and a seller at a given price, that is what the car is worth at that point in monetary terms. Sure, there are the outliers where people pay $20k+ for a low mileage example from EAG or someone gets lucky and finds a seller who doesn't really know what they have and manage to get a monster deal, but for the most part I would expect ZHPs to sell above KBB.

Consider for a moment the Jaguar XKE. For a good condition version, they're worth upwards of $70k and easily creep into six figures. Compared to the ZHP, it's not a rarity thing, since 72.5k were made over their production run. Even if only 1/4 are left today due to rust, accidents, and misuse, that's still more than all US ZHPs produced. From an objective standpoint they're not particularly good cars either: they're no faster than our ZHPs in a straight line, are not particularly well equipped by today's standards, and have not insignificant reliability issues. Original price isn't a factor either, since MSRP for an XKE was around $5-6k in the 1960s and early 1970s, which is about $40-50k in present dollars (no more than our ZHPs).

Don't get me wrong, the Jaguar XKE is one of my favorite cars and I would do despicable, reprehensible things to own one. But from an objective standpoint, the ZHP has it pretty well beat. So why is the XKE worth so much when its bare characteristics are trumped by something far cheaper and more modern? There are many reasons one could argue this point, but for me it's because it's an enthusiasts' car. It's a car with this rare mix of heritage, craftsmanship, beauty, and visceral driving experience that is very difficult to find anywhere else and enthusiasts understand that. Although it's not a perfect example, I think the ZHP is in a similar situation. Enthusiasts understand the ZHP is a car that is a blend of great looking sheet metal, mild rarity, an excellent driving experience, everyday utility, and pretty decent reliability, and as a result people are willing to pay for those characteristics. KBB might assess a ZHP at $9k, but for a lot of us, the car is worth more and as a result are willing to pay for it. Also, the value of special packages or editions like the Performance Package aren't really reflected in KBB very well (good luck finding an Audi B7 A4 with the Titanium Package within $4k of the KBB value, and they sell quickly).

Maybe everything I'm saying is just me trying to justify the amount I paid for my car, but I don't feel like I overpaid for what I got (especially since I sit a good ways underneath the fit line of the Mafia purchase price vs. mileage graph).

As for modifications, I agree with other members: modifications do not add much if any value to the car, and can often detract from the value. As a buyer I always steered clear of cars that were heavily modified because they indicated that although the car was an enthusiast's car (a plus), it was probably driven hard (usually a negative), and often the modifications weren't things I would want in the first place. It's often why sellers will try and return their cars as close to stock as possible and sell the modifications separately; there's just more money to be had that way. The only time mods might add value is if they are an improvement that fixes a known factory issue (subframe reinforcement, LSD, replacing other failure prone components with sturdier parts, etc). Otherwise, sellers will most likely get the most money for their car if it's in its stock form.

[Oli77]

Well put, our cars (well yours, I have a ZSP), do command a premium price. It is a car for enthusiasts, cherished by enthusiasts, and when sold by enthusiasts are priced well above KBB. My example with a 1999 Sienna, only reflects the fact that a non-enthusiast car will just sit right at KBB (or below).

[das boots]

At those KBB prices...I guess I will have to keep mine till my legs drop off.....

[NoVAphotog]

I think the idea of "value" is assessed somewhat differently in the used car market compared to new cars or other products. The fact that this (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FUWpdcPerF3UNTwj5AQoMDn-1MTfdhRaylJr7lGTmtw/pubchart?oid=289040793&format=interactive) graph of Mafia purchases within the last three years illustrates that there is a market for ZHPs in the $12-17k range, well above assessed KBB values. Whether or not people consider those prices as inflated compared to the car's utility or perceived value, if a transaction occurs between a buyer and a seller at a given price, that is what the car is worth at that point in monetary terms. Sure, there are the outliers where people pay $20k+ for a low mileage example from EAG or someone gets lucky and finds a seller who doesn't really know what they have and manage to get a monster deal, but for the most part I would expect ZHPs to sell above KBB.

Consider for a moment the Jaguar XKE. For a good condition version, they're worth upwards of $70k and easily creep into six figures. Compared to the ZHP, it's not a rarity thing, since 72.5k were made over their production run. Even if only 1/4 are left today due to rust, accidents, and misuse, that's still more than all US ZHPs produced. From an objective standpoint they're not particularly good cars either: they're no faster than our ZHPs in a straight line, are not particularly well equipped by today's standards, and have not insignificant reliability issues. Original price isn't a factor either, since MSRP for an XKE was around $5-6k in the 1960s and early 1970s, which is about $40-50k in present dollars (no more than our ZHPs).

Don't get me wrong, the Jaguar XKE is one of my favorite cars and I would do despicable, reprehensible things to own one. But from an objective standpoint, the ZHP has it pretty well beat. So why is the XKE worth so much when its bare characteristics are trumped by something far cheaper and more modern? There are many reasons one could argue this point, but for me it's because it's an enthusiasts' car. It's a car with this rare mix of heritage, craftsmanship, beauty, and visceral driving experience that is very difficult to find anywhere else and enthusiasts understand that. Although it's not a perfect example, I think the ZHP is in a similar situation. Enthusiasts understand the ZHP is a car that is a blend of great looking sheet metal, mild rarity, an excellent driving experience, everyday utility, and pretty decent reliability, and as a result people are willing to pay for those characteristics. KBB might assess a ZHP at $9k, but for a lot of us, the car is worth more and as a result are willing to pay for it. Also, the value of special packages or editions like the Performance Package aren't really reflected in KBB very well (good luck finding an Audi B7 A4 with the Titanium Package within $4k of the KBB value, and they sell quickly).

Maybe everything I'm saying is just me trying to justify the amount I paid for my car, but I don't feel like I overpaid for what I got (especially since I sit a good ways underneath the fit line of the Mafia purchase price vs. mileage graph).

As for modifications, I agree with other members: modifications do not add much if any value to the car, and can often detract from the value. As a buyer I always steered clear of cars that were heavily modified because they indicated that although the car was an enthusiast's car (a plus), it was probably driven hard (usually a negative), and often the modifications weren't things I would want in the first place. It's often why sellers will try and return their cars as close to stock as possible and sell the modifications separately; there's just more money to be had that way. The only time mods might add value is if they are an improvement that fixes a known factory issue (subframe reinforcement, LSD, replacing other failure prone components with sturdier parts, etc). Otherwise, sellers will most likely get the most money for their car if it's in its stock form.

Well said.


Sent from my iPhone 6S using Tapatalk

[quikryptonite]

All things being equal, modifications generally tend to detract from the value of a car to an average buyer.

I plan on being the last owner of my ZHP. There's zero chance of recouping anything close to what I've put into it so far, and I'm okay with that. It's a beautiful, comfortable, and capable machine.

This is my thought as well. I'll drive this car into the ground. Hopefully it lasts another 150,000 or 10 years, whichever comes first. ;)

[Garagebound]

My $.02
KBB, Blackbook, and NADA are guides. Period. Actual monetary value = vehicle sale price.
Market value is driven by supply and demand. For ZHPs, supply continues to decline, ecspecially low mileage cars, whereas demand continues to rise. Similar-case specialty cars include Toyota Surpra,Mazda RX-7, and air-cooled Porsche 911s. Each model can have its own exceptions.
Other drivers:
1. Location: Most cars from drier climates tend to command a higher value.
2. Economic conditions: about 8-10 years ago when gas prices sky rocketed, Full-size SUVs could be bought well under book value, while hybrids sold for well over.
3. Market Timing and Time of year: although this tends to influence supply and demand, can consequently affect "actual value".
4. And don't forget the character of the seller. Is it a dealer or a anal-retentive car nut?

In summation, using only one data source for values is ignorance.

In general, the more mods, the smaller the buying pool and generally the lower the market value.

Cheers,

[UdubBadger]

Keep in mind most of what has been said above is used for banking purposes for obtaining loans. NADA is what 95% of the banks go off of to decide how much they can give you on a specific car for a reasonable risk on the loan.

Actual market values will always fluctuate based upon standard supply/demand economics.

[az3579]

smh

[MrAdventure]

The ones that get me are the ones who take the KBB price, and add the cost of all mods and/or recent maintenance. I am OK with adding some value to the base price, but not 100%, especially for maintenance items.

[Simmsled]

At this point, I will only trade my ZHP for Faberge eggs, rare portraits of Eastern European princesses wearing ivy, or perhaps a Klondike bar under the right circumstances.

[BMWCurves]

At this point, I will only trade my ZHP for Faberge eggs, rare portraits of Eastern European princesses wearing ivy, or perhaps a Klondike bar under the right circumstances.

I'd be interested to hear such circumstances. I've got a spare Klondike bar in the freezer right now.

[Simmsled]

I'd be interested to hear such circumstances. I've got a spare Klondike bar in the freezer right now.

Love a good Klondike bar.
Might have to get a couple beers before I figure out exactly the circumstances.
:drunk