Bushings and Rubber Bits

[Karl Lazlo]

Tearing into my 2003 coupe lately. Slowly making upgrades and looking for options.

Right now, the car rides on stock (sport) springs, Bilstein HDs and ZHP control arms:

- Stock front sway bar bushings (refreshed last fall)
- Stock rear sway bar bushings (original)
- Stock upper strut mounts (<1000miles on them)
- Tie rod end and sway bar links less than a year old (stock)
- Powerflex FCABs (about a year old ~30k)
- RE RSMs and RTABs (done last week)

Having the clutch replaced and while in there, doing the RE motor and trans mounts. Now, my question...

What options are out there (I already priced out Powerflex) for diff and subframe bushings. Street car with some track days planned. Rather a "spirited" driver... Not a DD.

In addition to the diff and subframe bushings, will likely do the rear control arm bushings (~30k on them) along with the R sway bar bushings (18mm, right?)

[slater]

powerflex or AKG are options for rear subframe mounts - i chose AKG because they appeared to have the largest, flattest surface area where the mount meets the rear floor. also, i'm not a huge fan of powerflex products (i don't think the quality is there). the quality of the AKG units are superb.

i chose ECS poly for the diff mounts because they are pretty soft (i think AKGs are 75D - that is stiff!). i wanted some compliance, but also longevity.

i would recommend using the OE M3 'ball joint' upper outer rear control arm 'bushings' (they're really bearings) in both upper outer and lower outer locations (they are located in the hub assembly). it's more costly, but you get better articulation (and less slop) - plus, it's an OE solution as this is how the M3 is spec'd. also, i would highly recommend replacing the rear lower outer eccentric bolts (for camber adjustment).

my upper inner and lower inner rear control arm bushings were in surprisingly good shape; lower inners produced about 10% more deflection that a stock bushing; upper inners were indecipherable in difference, so i elected to only replace the lower inners - and really, the old ones would've been fine. i would check those. but if you're pulling the subframe anyway, and your car has 250K miles, perhaps just replace them. they're cheap.

[Karl Lazlo]

also, i'm not a huge fan of powerflex products (i don't think the quality is there). the quality of the AKG units are superb.

Thanks for sharing. Exactly the info I was looking for.


i chose ECS poly for the diff mounts because they are pretty soft (i think AKGs are 75D - that is stiff!). i wanted some compliance, but also longevity.

ECS is 88A and AKG has a street 95A poly option.


i would recommend using the OE M3 'ball joint' upper outer rear control arm 'bushings' (they're really bearings) in both upper outer and lower outer locations

Ooooo. I never thought of that.


but if you're pulling the subframe anyway, and your car has 250K miles, perhaps just replace them. they're cheap.

Pretty much my thought, as well.

Thanks again!

[slater]

ECS is 88A and AKG has a street 95A poly option.

cool, either the 95A option is new or i just forgot. ;)

definitely contact shawn about renting his koch tools bushing tool - that thing will save you hours of work on this project (BTDT last fall - i own the tool as well, it ROCKS).

[BADCLOWN]

Poly motor and trans mounts are tough, I had them on my old ZHP and it was VERY FIRM. at idle, it shook the entire car. I'd advise against it, go with OEM M3 mounts.

[Karl Lazlo]

definitely contact shawn about renting his koch tools bushing tool - that thing will save you hours of work on this project (BTDT last fall - i own the tool as well, it ROCKS).

I was looking at owning the tool. Though, since the car is going in for a clutch soon, I figure have my indy do all the bits. Keeps me from sitting under the car for a whole weekend.


Poly motor and trans mounts are tough, I had them on my old ZHP and it was VERY FIRM. at idle, it shook the entire car. I'd advise against it, go with OEM M3 mounts.

Yeah, that was my concern. OE M3 mounts were the next logical choice. Thanks.

[GotZHP]

Sub'd.

Would like to see others opinions. My suspension is in desperate need of refreshments.

[Aeternalis]

I went with AKG black poly bushings for my rear subframe and differential. No complaints. I don't intended to track my car though.

[Karl Lazlo]

Would like to see others opinions. My suspension is in desperate need of refreshments.

Pretty much the reason I started this thread. One could go OEM or choose from the myriad of aftermarket solutions.

I just did a refresh on my ZHP. Still on on OE springs, but went with:

- Koni dampers
- OE Upper strut mounts
- OE control arms and bushings
- OE Sway bar end links
- RE RTABs and RSMs

As I tear into the ZSP to finish replacing the old rubber bits, looking at options and opinions. Plenty here have already done what I am about to embark upon. Slater's and BADCLOWN's suggestions have already saved me a few bucks... Hopefully what I learn on my 251k mile ZSP will influence my decisions with the 109k mile ZHP and 100k mile M3.

[Vas]

I pretty much overhauled the complete suspension on my wife's zhp. Since it is her daily, I did not want her to deal with NVH or vibrations and etc.

So I went with:

Koni Yellow Shocks with OE BMW dust boots and bump stops
H&R Springs with OE BMW Spring pads
Rouge Engineering Rear Shock Mounts with reinforcement plates
OE BMW Front Upper Mounts with reinforcement plates
Z4m FCAB
Z4m RTAB with Turner Motor Sports Limiters
OE BMW Rear diff bushings
OE BMW front Sway Bar bushings
OE BMW Front Control Arms
OE BMW Tie Rod Assembly
OE BMW M3 Engine and Trans Mounts

I have not touched the front/rear sway bar links, rear sway bar bushings, rear subframe mounts or the 4 bushings on lower/upper control arms in the rear. Those items will be addressed next and I will go with the OE M3 ball joints in the lower/upper control arm location like the E46 M3.

No complaints from the wife and only positive things to say about how her zhp feels on the road and handles on the numerous country back roads she drives daily.

[slater]

No complaints from the wife and only positive things to say about how her zhp feels on the road and handles on the numerous country back roads she drives daily.

nice work, vas! happy wife = happy life. :cheers

[Vas]

nice work, vas! happy wife = happy life. :cheers

Still not done but wish I was. And then I got my Imola sedan to overhaul unless I sell it. That thought has crossed my mind....

[Sockethead]

I have just about the same setup as VAs's wife's car but I have poly sway bar bushings in the front and rear. and adjustable end links on the rear bar because that's what came with the UUC sway bars. I'm really happy with the way the car feels right now
M3 Motor mounts are on my to do list.
I used OEM diff bushings last time I did them but I'm debating on switching to something a little more durable since I have an LSD. There is some serious twisting on that single rear diff bushing as opposed to the two bushings on the M3

[san]

Still not done but wish I was. And then I got my Imola sedan to overhaul unless I sell it. That thought has crossed my mind....

For an e36 M3 sedan?

[Vas]

I have just about the same setup as VAs's wife's car but I have poly sway bar bushings in the front and rear. and adjustable end links on the rear bar because that's what came with the UUC sway bars. I'm really happy with the way the car feels right now
M3 Motor mounts are on my to do list.
I used OEM diff bushings last time I did them but I'm debating on switching to something a little more durable since I have an LSD. There is some serious twisting on that single rear diff bushing as opposed to the two bushings on the M3

Hmm LSD.


For an e36 M3 sedan?

Only if it is Red, yellow or blue.

[san]

Hmm LSD.



Only if it is Red, yellow or blue.

E36 Estoril blue, 5sp MT. $10K
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=547158

[Vas]

E36 Estoril blue, 5sp MT. $10K
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=547158

I saw that but I would lean more towards a sedan vs coupe. Then the field of cars available becomes very slim

[san]

I saw that but I would lean more towards a sedan vs coupe. Then the field of cars available becomes very slim

Yup and your color preferences seem to carry a premium too...

[Vas]

Yup and your color preferences seem to carry a premium too...

That they do. That is why the zhp is still in the driveway and I will most likely end up keeping it and doing a complete overhaul on it.

[GotZHP]

The only new suspension components I have are front lower control arm bushings. Other than that, every thing is going to hit 110,000 miles tomorrow.

My ZHP is my daily, but 95% of the time it is just me in the car. I do a lot of highway driving but mix in a few mountain pass runs on the weekends and eventually will hit the track. I came from the world of Subarus, so instantly the NVH difference is hugely noticeable. Plus by the time I was done with my BRZ, it was pretty raw and very connected to the road.

I want to corner flatter and stiffen up the feel of the car. I also want to square my tire set up and run 255s in all corners. I am also on a budget :/

Those will be the three main factors in my decisions. I will mostly likely end up, for the most part, with an OEM+ set up. I know some folks don't like to share price / cost of items, but if you don't mind, I'd like to see so I can start to plan things out.

Still interested to hear more of what people have done to their ZHPs

[Karl Lazlo]

GotZHP - Pretty much spot on with what I did to my ZHP, including the mileage.

Just after I got the car, I did the control arms, LCABs, and a strut brace. I struggled on deciding what to you as for suspension. I wanted to freshen it up and get it back to stock feeling (without the harshness of my 03) since it is a DD. I don't mind sharing prices (it isn't like I have some special decoder ring of super duper discounts).

Koni Orange (I went cheap to see if Koni would win me back) - $455.99 (FCP)
Upper strut mounts (Lemforder) - $26.75/ea (FCP)
Upper strut reinforcement plates - $11.34/ea (FCP)
OE Bump stops and dust sleeves - ~$40.00 (indy sourced)
Rogue Engineering RSMs - $99.00 plus a set of spare bushings $10.00
Rogue Engineering RTABs - $85.00
Sway Bar end links - $55.00 (indy sourced)

Now, here is what I priced out for the rest of the stuff for my 03:

Rear Subframe Bushing Set $250.00 (AKG)
Rear Diff Kit $140.00 (AKG)
Front Control Arm Bushing Pair $80.00 (AKG)
M3 Mounts (pair) $127.90 (ECS)
Transmission Mounts (pair) $42.24 (ECS)
Upper Transmission Mount Nut (pair) $1.82 (ECS)
Lower Transmission Mount Nut (pair) $2.58 (ECS)
Rear Outer Upper Or Lower Trailing Arm Ball Joint (qty 4) $163.80 (Turner)
Camber Adjustment Eccentric Bolt (pair) $16.74 (ECS)
OE Rear Sway Bar Bushing (18mm) (pair) $16.08 (ECS)

[slater]

I want to corner flatter and stiffen up the feel of the car. I also want to square my tire set up and run 255s in all corners. I am also on a budget :/

Those will be the three main factors in my decisions. I will mostly likely end up, for the most part, with an OEM+ set up. I know some folks don't like to share price / cost of items, but if you don't mind, I'd like to see so I can start to plan things out.

Still interested to hear more of what people have done to their ZHPs

for your primary goals, but retain 'OEM+', i would recommend some koni yellows, bushing refresh, bigger swaybars - this will help tighten up and refresh the suspension, but not break your wallet. and i would recommend to NOT run 255's up front - if you keep the stock springs, you're just going to have the front tire poking way out of the fender well. plus - i'm running 245's up front and there on-center crispness is definitely not how it is with 225's - overall i like it better, i think - but i do miss the on-center feel of the 225's.

you can check out my build thread for details on mine. it's not crazy but it's a bit crazier than most folks here. ;) this post kinda sums up what i did, but look back a few pages and you can see some pics of the work:

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?12602-peter-s-canadian-imola-ZHP-project&p=461871#post461871



Now, here is what I priced out for the rest of the stuff for my 03:

Rear Subframe Bushing Set $250.00 (AKG)
Rear Diff Kit $140.00 (AKG)
Front Control Arm Bushing Pair $80.00 (AKG)
M3 Mounts (pair) $127.90 (ECS)
Transmission Mounts (pair) $42.24 (ECS)
Upper Transmission Mount Nut (pair) $1.82 (ECS)
Lower Transmission Mount Nut (pair) $2.58 (ECS)
Rear Outer Upper Or Lower Trailing Arm Ball Joint (qty 4) $163.80 (Turner)
Camber Adjustment Eccentric Bolt (pair) $16.74 (ECS)
OE Rear Sway Bar Bushing (18mm) (pair) $16.08 (ECS)

nice, dude - this looks like a great balance of stuff. you're going to love it. i would highly recommend the BW spherical RTABs too. ;)

[Karl Lazlo]

nice, dude - this looks like a great balance of stuff. you're going to love it. i would highly recommend the BW spherical RTABs too.

Too late... Just did the RE RTABs and RSMs two weeks ago on the 03. ;)

[slater]

Too late... Just did the RE RTABs and RSMs two weeks ago on the 03. ;)

it's never too late. ;) hahaha.

[Karl Lazlo]

it's never too late. ;) hahaha.

Well, with how I rack up miles on my cars, you may be on to something...