Stock Injectors or replacement

[JerseyDriver820]

Hello all,
recently i have run into a problem. I will be driving along at about 2500 RPM and will jam on the gas in third gear. instead of getting power delivery i get a shaking and sputtering. feels like it misfires but no codes are being thrown. I replaced the fuel filter, it was very very dirty. problem appeared to have gotten better. until 50 miles later, i got the same problem. Looking at my injectors i can see that they are purple and are Siemens DEKA 80. how long are these things supposed to last? what replacements can i get? car is a 2004 with 98k in miles. has new plugs, ignition coils. new valve cover new oil separator. Has 0 codes

Thoughts?

[ELCID86]

Do me a favor and try unplugging your DISA (just the wire plug) and see if you still get the stutter.

[Johnmadd]

Original fuel pump?

[JerseyDriver820]

original fuel pump I'm assuming, i have no service records of the car from 91k miles

[JerseyDriver820]

DISA was replaced within 100 miles of owning the car

[Johnmadd]

I'd prepare for a fuel pump, buy one and keep it in the trunk. The original pumps go out around there, give or take 10/15 thousand miles.

[JerseyDriver820]

i was hoping i wouldn't have to do that

[Johnmadd]

It's easy

[ELCID86]

DISA was replaced within 100 miles of owning the car

That has nothing to do with my request. It's worth a shot and worked on mine. I left it unplugged for a week or so and then plugged it back and haven't had an issue.

[JerseyDriver820]

alright thanks for the advice, i have a 100 mile commute tomorrow, ill do it with the DISA unplugged

[ELCID86]

Yikes. That's worse than mine!

[terraphantm]

Sounds like the ~2800 RPM jerking that the MS45 cars get. Try flashing it to the latest software, that fixed it on my old ZHP.

[ELCID86]

Sounds like the ~2800 RPM jerking that the MS45 cars get. Try flashing it to the latest software, that fixed it on my old ZHP.

Not a typical DIY, correct?

[JerseyDriver820]

correct me if I'm wrong but the "jerking" your referring to at 2800 rpm is a dip in the power band? this is not the case, this a literal sputter of the car, like its misfiring. dealer told me its 150 for the flash but they don't wanna do it.

-Update- drove to work today. on the way there had my DISA disconnected.- no dice. on the way home, disconnected the mass airflow sensor. this appeared to have fixed the problem. I got home and cleaned my MAS with contact cleaner. the commute tomorrow will let me know if i fixed it

[ELCID86]

correct me if I'm wrong but the "jerking" your referring to at 2800 rpm is a dip in the power band? this is not the case, this a literal sputter of the car, like its misfiring. dealer told me its 150 for the flash but they don't wanna do it.

-Update- drove to work today. on the way there had my DISA disconnected.- no dice. on the way home, disconnected the mass airflow sensor. this appeared to have fixed the problem. I got home and cleaned my MAS with contact cleaner. the commute tomorrow will let me know if i fixed it

Interesting. Sorry it didn't work. BP will school you on not cleaning the MAS (though I've done mine).

[JerseyDriver820]

worst comes to worst i guess ill just replace the thing if i damaged it, cant be more then a couple hundred

[ELCID86]

I don't think its instantly ruined. Mine seems fine. Others here have done the same.

[terraphantm]

correct me if I'm wrong but the "jerking" your referring to at 2800 rpm is a dip in the power band? this is not the case, this a literal sputter of the car, like its misfiring. dealer told me its 150 for the flash but they don't wanna do it.

-Update- drove to work today. on the way there had my DISA disconnected.- no dice. on the way home, disconnected the mass airflow sensor. this appeared to have fixed the problem. I got home and cleaned my MAS with contact cleaner. the commute tomorrow will let me know if i fixed it

No, it very much felt like a misfire, except it didn't throw codes. I remember it being most pronounced in 3rd gear.


Not a typical DIY, correct?

Can be done with WinKFP.

[slater]

No, it very much felt like a misfire, except it didn't throw codes. I remember it being most pronounced in 3rd gear.



Can be done with WinKFP.

yep, i've got this jerkiness too. need to flash the DME. got everything here, need to uninstall my shark injector first though...

[az3579]

worst comes to worst i guess ill just replace the thing if i damaged it, cant be more then a couple hundred
Try nearly $400.

Sent from my LG V10 on Tapatalk

[ELCID86]

No, it very much felt like a misfire, except it didn't throw codes. I remember it being most pronounced in 3rd gear.



Can be done with WinKFP.

:dunno all I have is PASoft and am afraid to brick my car.

[terraphantm]

PASoft can't do it.

Bricking the DME is actually pretty difficult. Even if you have a bad flash, you just have to restart the flash procedure.

[Vas]

PASoft can't do it.

Bricking the DME is actually pretty difficult. Even if you have a bad flash, you just have to restart the flash procedure.

Did you mention you can do it on a bench if the DME is sent to you?

[Sockethead]

My wife's '04 non ZHP had that problem too... we tried everything. We finally took it to the dealer and had it flashed with the latest firmware and it fixed it.

[terraphantm]

Did you mention you can do it on a bench if the DME is sent to you?

Yep, I can do that

[Vas]

Yep, I can do that
How to tell the current version of the dme?

[GotZHP]

I would look in other places before injectors. I took mine out recently while changing out my intake manifold gaskets. My injectors are original, never cleaned before, and had 105,000 miles on them. I was actually surprised at how clean they were. I was expecting a ton of carbon build up, but there was minimal. I'll try and find the pictures I took.

Like others have said, new flash would be my next move. I have a link somewhere on my computer on how to flash it yourself, ill try and find that as well.

[terraphantm]

How to tell the current version of the dme?

Do you have any diagnostic software for the car?

[Vas]

Do you have any diagnostic software for the car?

Just PA Soft.

[terraphantm]

Just PA Soft.

I can't remember whether or not PASoft can tell the software version. I'll plug in and check

[Vas]

I can't remember whether or not PASoft can tell the software version. I'll plug in and check
Thanks. ☺

[GotZHP]

Wait a minute.... Has no one said VANOS seals yet?

My car does the same exact thing around 2,600 to 2,800 rpm. 3rd or 4th gear, foot down, and stutter stutter stutter.

I have replaced DISA, cleaned ICV, replaced intake boots, replaced all vacuum lines, replaced intake manifold gaskets, and cleaned injectors.

My bet is you need to rebuild your Vanos. I know I need to :/

[Sockethead]

The PO replaced the vanos assy already

[terraphantm]

Wait a minute.... Has no one said VANOS seals yet?

My car does the same exact thing around 2,600 to 2,800 rpm. 3rd or 4th gear, foot down, and stutter stutter stutter.

I have replaced DISA, cleaned ICV, replaced intake boots, replaced all vacuum lines, replaced intake manifold gaskets, and cleaned injectors.

My bet is you need to rebuild your Vanos. I know I need to :/

For any ZHP that has issues in that RPM range, I would strongly recommend software before anything else. The VANOS seals had no impact on the issue in my case. Virtually every MS45.1 car I came across with this issue was fixed with a flash to the latest software

[slater]

For any ZHP that has issues in that RPM range, I would strongly recommend software before anything else. The VANOS seals had no impact on the issue in my case. Virtually every MS45.1 car I came across with this issue was fixed with a flash to the latest software

yep, all of my research and troubleshooting has lead me to this too. i just need to find some time to get it done.

[terraphantm]

Here's how to check your software version with PASoft:

http://i.imgur.com/lXDjNvy.png

http://i.imgur.com/zxxtgNg.png

http://i.imgur.com/mmTLG7v.png

Your assembly number won't necessarily match mine.

[Vas]

Sorry if I missed this info but what is the latest software number? Just not sure what to look for exactly.

[terraphantm]

Sorry if I missed this info but what is the latest software number? Just not sure what to look for exactly.

Depends. I've seen 7561520, 7561522, and 7562334 (depends on build date of the car). And if your car was ever reprogrammed by BMWNA in Jersey, you might have 7561544 like my car (or something else entirely). If it's any of the numbers I mentioned here, no update necessary. Otherwise you'd probably need an update.

Post the number (or even a screenshot) here and I can figure it out

[ELCID86]

Terra, why can't I read my DME with PASoft?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160520/3b9045a84b2afc0c6306f41419949e76.jpg

[terraphantm]

Terra, why can't I read my DME with PASoft?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160520/3b9045a84b2afc0c6306f41419949e76.jpg

Try shorting pins 7 and 8 on the interface

[ELCID86]

Try shorting pins 7 and 8 on the interface

Sorry, can you put that in layman's terms?
On the cable circuit board? (This is my second one as I thought the first one I bought was bad...).

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160520/7a2c995195beadae54261e61d80993a7.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160520/ff42b0540454d1e927666d72877e04e4.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160520/6dc13ce78fa2b63ea6b2c18569a00adc.jpg

[ELCID86]

Never mind. That was the old unit... New one works. Thanks Tony!

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160520/dec0199cc2d698b5d809041d1ce111bf.jpg

[ELCID86]

Here is mine. 7.548.58n

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160520/4f3cce1d9d9948d17e03b6d04e8d9a55.jpg

[terraphantm]

It's actually 7561522 in your screenshot (you have to look at the newest entry). It's already at the latest. If you have a 4K dip, it might be worth trying the software my ZHP has flashed (7561544), but the 2800RPM stutter shouldn't be present.

[ELCID86]

It's actually 7561522 in your screenshot (you have to look at the newest entry). It's already at the latest. If you have a 4K dip, it might be worth trying the software my ZHP has flashed (7561544), but the 2800RPM stutter shouldn't be present.

Ah. Thanks. I don't really notice either one of those symptoms. Had a bad stutter but unhooking/swapping DISA seemed to get rid of it.

[Ernest]

Great thread for a noobie like me to catch up quickly. I've had my 7/2003 ZHP for a year now and it runs fine, but exhibits some of the normal symptoms. DME was shipped to BMW NA in Oct 2005 for the 4k lag issue. I doubt it's been updated since...so, planning on taking to have the dealer flash the latest code for $160. This should smooth things out, and is probably what I need to do before I head down the Shark or any other engine upgrade path?? Will eventually download pa soft but just too busy right now to that take on.
Thoughts?

[Sockethead]

Yes, not required but you should always flash to the latest firmware before doing a tune...

[terraphantm]

Great thread for a noobie like me to catch up quickly. I've had my 7/2003 ZHP for a year now and it runs fine, but exhibits some of the normal symptoms. DME was shipped to BMW NA in Oct 2005 for the 4k lag issue. I doubt it's been updated since...so, planning on taking to have the dealer flash the latest code for $160. This should smooth things out, and is probably what I need to do before I head down the Shark or any other engine upgrade path?? Will eventually download pa soft but just too busy right now to that take on.
Thoughts?

If it was done in October 2005, it might already be at the latest. Mine was done in December 2005 and it's the latest software. I would try to find out what software it's on before spending the $160. From what I can tell, the latest software was compiled in July 2005, but I don't know how long it takes for that to rll out through the whole BMW network.

[Ernest]

I thought there would be subsequent releases, but not really surprised. My dealer paperwork says the Tech Bulletin was dated 12-17-05 "Remove DME and send to BMW for updating". The invoice is dated 10-31-05 under a PUMA case so I guess it was just done a little early. I should just get pa soft and check the rev and forget about going to the dealer.

[Ernest]

Yes, not required but you should always flash to the latest firmware before doing a tune...
Hey Sockethead nice list of upgrades. I'm planning on a Stewart water pump and pulley set next. How do you like the UUC underdrive set? Seems like the UUC/Stewart combo might free up some power or quickness...

[Sockethead]

Here's my review of them way back in 2009. http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1321523-UUC-underdrive-pulleys-installed-and-reviewed
To me, the Stewart pump isn't worth the extra money. I've had no problem running the OEM water pump for years. Everything you're heard about the plastic impeller is BS. That was a problem back in the 90's. The Composite impeller used these days is as durable as the metal impeller...

[Ernest]

Here's my review of them way back in 2009. http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1321523-UUC-underdrive-pulleys-installed-and-reviewed
To me, the Stewart pump isn't worth the extra money. I've had no problem running the OEM water pump for years. Everything you're heard about the plastic impeller is BS. That was a problem back in the 90's. The Composite impeller used these days is as durable as the metal impeller...

Nice review. I'm more inclined to do common sense mechanical improvements before tuning the engine, which will eventually happen but I don't want to mask anything ahead of time. I'm definitely looking for solutions for all of these, especially the 1-2 shift. Does all this still hold true and was this done before/after your Dinan tune? "There is a difference in power, not a tremendous difference, but it is there. The motor is definitely more responsive. It revs easier and faster. Rev matching is much easier; downshifts takes less throttle and there is less lag time. Also, the shift from first to second is much smoother".

[Sockethead]

This is straying a bit from the original topic but make sure you Clutch delay valve is removed. if you're not sure what it is or how to do it, do a thread search and it will come up :)

I did the pulleys a couple of years before the Dinan stuff

[Ernest]

Deleted the CDV right after I bought the car.
I'm going to do the UUC pulley upgrade because I have plastic in there now and for a few bucks extra if I can get some of the benefits you did then it will be well worth it. Thanks for the input!

[Sockethead]

NP, that's what we're here for ;)

[Vas]

If you want to smaller pulleys, look into Turner Motorsports.

If you want metal pulleys, ecs tuning sells factory size pulleys made out of aluminium.