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View Full Version : 4 Ways to Ruin your ZHP Driving Experience



rkneeshaw
05-01-2016, 06:37 AM
And they pretty much all involve doing nothing at all.

Our cars are aging. My car, which I only drive in the summers, has crested 115,000 miles. At this age, if you haven't tended to a few things, your BMW probably drives quite badly and you may not even have realized it. This happened to me. And I felt compelled to write this because I have spent the last week waking up in the morning with my ZHP and twisty roads as the first thought to cross my mind. I'm in love with my car all over again. I seek out any excuse to get behind the wheel. I purposely take 20 minute detours on my way home from work. And, it all made me realize, that this car is an absolute blast to drive. And I thought, after 7 years of ownership, why is this a new thought to me? Because without knowing it, my car was getting tired. So here is what I feel are the best ways to ruin your ZHP

Poor choice in tires

This is probably the most important component of any vehicle. Nothing effects the driving feel of a vehicle more than the tires you choose. I drove around on a couple sets of Continental ExtemeContact DW's for the last 5 years, and when I finally switched to the Michelin PSS it was as if my car was transformed. The DW's gripped great, really great, and wore well, but it wasn't until I switched to the PSS that I realized how numb the soft sidewalls made my driving experience. I highly recommend the Michelin Pilot Super Sports, but, there are others that members have reported have very crisp handling characteristics as well:

Michelin Pilot Super Sport
Bridgestone S-04 Pole Positions
Hankook Ventus V12

Old bushings

BMW's drive great because of the design of the suspension, which include a lot of rubber bushings. I once thought that, hey, they look good, their rubber, they should be fine. Wrong. That rubber gets soft and malleable much earlier than I thought. Probably somewhat to do with time (my car is 13 years old) as much as mileage. Visually, my bushings looked fine. But the difference felt after replacing them proved otherwise. Here's the list in order of how much effect they will have on your driving enjoyment:

Front Control Arm Bushings (FCAB)
Rear Trailing Arm Bushings (RTAB)
Sway bar bushings
Rear Upper and Lower Outer Control Arm Bushings (the upper can be upgraded to the M3 balljoint style)

And to a lesser extent:
Front and rear differential bushings
Rear subframe bushings

Whether you chose OEM rubber, Meyle HD, Polyurethane such as PowerFlex, or some kind of balljoint style is up to you. Do your research. Use common sense. Chances are solid delrin or metal bushings are only good for racecars. I personally have had great success with PowerFlex, a few others don't like them. The most important thing is you get something fresh in there.

And do an alignment afterwards.

Worn ball joint based suspension components

Ball joints do wear over time, especially the hard hit areas of the suspension. If you want crisp feel in the turns, there needs to be zero slop in these joints. Save yourself some time and alignment costs and do all of these at once, again listed in order of importance:

Front Control Arms
Tie rods (inner and outer as one unit)
Sway bar endlinks

Crappy brakes

By crappy I mean neglected. Keep that fluid fresh and with a good bleed so you have good pedal feel. And then bed your pads properly so they grip well, and so your rotors don't get "warped".

Brake fluid flush
Properly bed pads (if applicable)
Smooth turning rotors

I say "if applicable" for the pad bedding because based on the pad compound, you may or may not need to perform a bedding procedure. Any kind of performance pad (even Stoptech Street Performance pads) need to be bed properly. If you don't, you won't be getting the stopping power you should AND you will "warp" your rotors, which leads to steering wheel shimmy and brake pedal pulsation, and a depressing lousy driving experience. Your car should come to a stop really smoothly and quickly.


So there you have it. I recently refreshed these items over the course of the last 6-12 months and I can't believe how much fun my car is to drive. It drives like its on rails. And my springs and shocks are stock (yes, stock, originals, never changed). Tires made the biggest improvement, or at least helped in revealing the effects of the other changes too. But it all plays a part.

Drive happy.

terraphantm
05-01-2016, 06:51 AM
If you thought the DWs were bad, then don't even try the Hankooks. Some of the worst tires I've ever driven on.

rkneeshaw
05-01-2016, 06:57 AM
If you thought the DWs were bad, then don't even try the Hankooks. Some of the worst tires I've ever driven on.

Oh really? A few folks thought they were really good for a budget tire on facebook. I think it was the Hankook Ventus V12 Evo2's to be precise.

Vas
05-01-2016, 07:00 AM
I will put in my two cents in regards to this topic.

Tires are the biggest thing between the car and the road. Acceleration,braking,handling all comes down to the tire and it's compound.

There are plenty of choices but read reviews and do research. Tirerack does great testing that reveals certain faults of tires.

I will say though that the Continental Extreme Contact DW do have a soft sidewall that is mushy. This is a direct comparison since my wife's zhp is on the conti and my car is on the s04.

In the next week, I will be switching to the Hankook Ventus v12 evo2 for my wife's zhp and will compare.

The good side about the Continental is that they are a quite tire and are great in the rain.

Suspension wise rubber wears and gets old. Shocks don't work as well when they are new. Ball joints wear out.

Speaking from personal experience since I just overhauled all of the suspension beside the upper joints rear upper and lower control control arm bushings. Now the car feels nimble and you understand how great these cars were when they were brand new.

As far as brakes, those are next on the list.

KevinC
05-01-2016, 07:18 AM
EXCELLENT advice. Funny, I was just thinking about this topic the other day. Our cars are old, and suspensions are often a neglected area, because the car "runs fine" no matter what the condition. And if someone bought the car 10+ years old and has no idea what it felt like when new, then they have no idea what they're missing.

I bought mine 4 years ago at 52k miles. First thing I did was get all the common suspension components, including shocks/struts, replaced. Replaced the awful tires that were on it with PSS's. All was right in the world.

I have since moved to DW's on the ZHP (but still run PSS on my M5). I actually like the softer sidewalls on the ZHP. It's my "comfort" car and still handles extremely well despite the less rigid sidewalls, and grip is still excellent. For me, it's a great compromise. They are also 2 lbs lighter and the reduction in unsprung weight was immediately noticeable when I made the switch. The stock wheels are quite heavy and any reduction is quite welcome.

rkneeshaw
05-01-2016, 07:18 AM
Thanks Vas, great input.

I'll add that when it comes to tires, the takeaway here is that they can drastically effect the driving feel of the car. When I bought the DW's back in the day, I read the reviews and knew they had a soft sidewall, and I remember thinking "eh, how much could that really matter, this is a fun car!". And with any new tire they are always so much better than the old. But now that I've gone back to a tire that is nice and responsive I realize how wrong I was. Something to think about.

cakM3
05-01-2016, 07:31 AM
If you thought the DWs were bad, then don't even try the Hankooks. Some of the worst tires I've ever driven on.

Sorry to hear you had bad experiences running on Hankooks Mirza.

I street/highway drive both of my BMWs and from my experience can say that the PSSs I ran on my ZHP were the best tires I have run.

I can also say from my experience that I like the Hankook Ventus V12s (much cheaper than the PSS and still a good performing summer tire) that I have been using on my M3. I drive my M3 at highway speeds and cruise. With that said, I have driven my M3 in heavy rains running on Hankook Ventus V12s (returning from a ZHP Mafia reunion trip in Virginia) at highway speeds with no issues.

Not sure exactly what issues those who don't like running on them are having but am interested in hearing about them :thumbsup

Edit: I think I will be getting the V12 EVO2s this time around. This will be my 3rd set of Hankook Ventus V12s I have run on my M3...

BMWCurves
05-01-2016, 07:34 AM
Agreed on mostcounts. I would add shocks/struts in there as well, as Vas said. The ride in my car was a bit stiff at 50k miles but I figured that was just the intended feel from BMW. When I pulled the factory shocks/struts out, they were toast. The new Konis improved both the ride comfort and made the car feel much more planted.

Regarding tires, I just put on Continental DW tires and I know they have a squishy sidewall but they have been a great summer tire. More importantly for me living in the NW, they are fantastic in the cold and the rain for a summer tire.

Vas
05-01-2016, 07:40 AM
If you thought the DWs were bad, then don't even try the Hankooks. Some of the worst tires I've ever driven on.


Oh really? A few folks thought they were really good for a budget tire on facebook. I think it was the Hankook Ventus V12 Evo2's to be precise.
Iono tirerack really liked the new version for them.

Hankook Ventus V12 evo2*(Max Performance Summer)

What We Liked: Sharp steering and nimble handling

What We'd Improve: More wet traction

Conclusion: A very good tire for drivers who want the feel of a sporty tire

derbo
05-01-2016, 12:34 PM
Proper alignement is also key after all this. Nice write up Ryan.

ELCID86
05-01-2016, 01:02 PM
Thanks for sharing.

Shocks and struts- done, FCABs, tie rods and RTABs-done, Michelin PSS have plenty of meat left, alignment here I come (this week).

Oli77
05-01-2016, 02:12 PM
Since this is a fresh thread about suspension components, let me ask you all a question.

How often do you change the control arms on the ZHP? The last time I had them replaced was about 25-30K miles ago (~4-5 years). I think they are starting to go (getting clunks).

Are the ZHP arms longer lasting or are they just stiffer ball joints? The ZHP arms will fit my ZSP it seems.

ELCID86
05-01-2016, 02:59 PM
Since this is a fresh thread about suspension components, let me ask you all a question.

How often do you change the control arms on the ZHP? The last time I had them replaced was about 25-30K miles ago (~4-5 years). I think they are starting to go (getting clunks).

Are the ZHP arms longer lasting or are they just stiffer ball joints? The ZHP arms will fit my ZSP it seems.

Have you isolated the clunks? My first clunk turned out to be loose end-link nut--didn't know it until I started into the control arm replacement...

My second clunk was tie rod ball joint. Just replaced them yesterday.

BTW I have a set of brand new Lemforder control arms I need to sell.

Oli77
05-01-2016, 06:22 PM
I can feel the clunk in the outer ball joint of the passenger side when I lift the front up on jacks and turn the wheel.

My Fcabs are new from a month ago, and endlinks about one year old.

Should I expect to be replacing control arms every 5 years? Normal tear and wear? The ZHP control arm last longer?

terraphantm
05-01-2016, 07:15 PM
I can feel the clunk in the outer ball joint of the passenger side when I lift the front up on jacks and turn the wheel.

My Fcabs are new from a month ago, and endlinks about one year old.

Should I expect to be replacing control arms every 5 years? Normal tear and wear? The ZHP control arm last longer?

Depends on the kind of roads you have. I expect most can get around 100k out of them (hell, my old control arms at 165k didn't seem bad), but if you have a lot of potholes and such, they might not last as long.

sillieidiot
05-01-2016, 08:25 PM
so basically, if you have been neglecting your car (or just overdue on a few things). replace everything with quality parts and it will feel new again lol

johnrando
05-02-2016, 08:18 AM
LOL. Like the good advice/friendly reminder OP.

terraphantm
05-02-2016, 06:34 PM
So regarding the upper and lower rear ball joints -- any of you have any thoughts on the Delphi variant? $12.50/ea at Pelican. I know Delphi is an OEM for a lot of American cars, but I've never seen anyone use their ball joints in this application.

Normally I'm more than willing to pay for Lemforder, but if I could get a similar quality piece for less than half the price, why not?

rkneeshaw
05-02-2016, 06:40 PM
so basically, if you have been neglecting your car (or just overdue on a few things). replace everything with quality parts and it will feel new again lol

lol pretty much. But seriously, good tires, good brakes, and good bushings all add up to a really fun driving BMW.


So regarding the upper and lower rear ball joints -- any of you have any thoughts on the Delphi variant? $12.50/ea at Pelican. I know Delphi is an OEM for a lot of American cars, but I've never seen anyone use their ball joints in this application.

Normally I'm more than willing to pay for Lemforder, but if I could get a similar quality piece for less than half the price, why not?

I haven't tried them, but, thinking about those ball joints I don't hear of a lot of failures?

terraphantm
05-02-2016, 06:48 PM
I haven't tried them, but, thinking about those ball joints I don't hear of a lot of failures?

Well I would at least want to replace the lower ones (which are bushings on non-Ms, but can be replaced with the M ball joints).