Has anyone on here converted from MS45.1 to MS43?

[wertyu78]

Hi Folks,

I know this topic has been discussed a few times on here, but I figured we could start a new thread to better organize the information needed for those considering the switch.

Let's not focus so much on the why's or why not's, as that is a separate discussion of its own; but rather on the process of actually making the switch. For those who are unaware, making the switch to MS43 opens doors on the software/tech side of things, where MS45.1 has essentially been left in the dark. You can learn more about this by reading this thread entirely: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1082287

Some of the benefits:

Launch control (fixed RPM & selection on the fly via multi-function steering wheel)
No lift shift (soon)
Everything needed for tuning (any tuner will now be able to dyno-tune your car)
Live Tuning (while on the rollers - soon)
Exhaust pop/burble on decel
Spark cut in lieu of fuel cut red-line
and more...


With all of the support on MS43 being readily available now, the software side of things have been well covered. Virginizing MS43 DME's to align with our existing EWS is an option (as well as eliminating the EWS altogether). Now, from what I've been able to learn online, we need the following to successfully switch from MS45.1 to MS43:


MS43 ECU
MS43 Engine Harness
MS43 MAF
MS43 Intake Temp Sensor (in the manifold, rather than in the MAF)
LC-2 Wideband (optional)


I'll come back to edit this post later, as I am currently at work - but I figured I'd go ahead and get this online for others to contribute. Feel free to suggest items I've missed or incorrectly listed/described.

Cheers,

PS: Big kudos to the guys on E46F for opening these doors for those running MS43. Without them, none of this would be possible.

Update: I am currently on the hunt for the items needed to complete this conversion. My goal is to photo document this process. The first step will be to layout the MS43 harness next to the MS45.1 harness for comparison. I've been doing some reading online and have found that there are some folks who have run into issues with the alternator and throttle body connectors being different between the harnesses, while others claim that it is plug n play.

[derbo]

So much work. So many possibilities tho :)


-Sent from Mobile

[BMWCurves]

I had no idea this was a thing for our cars. Interesting...

[ELCID86]

Terra??


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46fanatic

[wertyu78]

Video's of said exhaust pop/burble on decel


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1W1cBWDeTY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=ra6-htUOmL0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIBouQ4Hu5k

[danewilson77]

Says don't focus on whys. Tells us benefits first.

:)

I love the idea of this. Great thread.

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[ryankokesh]

:ineedabeer

What happened to our popcorn eating emoji guy? Beer seems like a decent replacement...

[wertyu78]

Update: I am currently on the hunt for the items needed to complete this conversion. My goal is to photo document this process. The first step will be to layout the MS43 harness next to the MS45.1 harness for comparison. I've been doing some reading online and have found that there are some folks who have run into issues with the alternator and throttle body connectors being different between the harnesses, while others claim that it is plug n play.

[wertyu78]

Says don't focus on whys. Tells us benefits first.

:)

I love the idea of this. Great thread.

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I've gotta entice everyone somehow ;)

[danewilson77]

Lol.

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[BMWCurves]

Update: I am currently on the hunt for the items needed to complete this conversion. My goal is to photo document this process. The first step will be to layout the MS43 harness next to the MS45.1 harness for comparison. I've been doing some reading online and have found that there are some folks who have run into issues with the alternator and throttle body connectors being different between the harnesses, while others claim that it is plug n play.

God speed, I look forward to it!

[Johnmadd]

I do know for a fact the alternator plug to the voltage regulator is different. You can buy the voltage regulator separate and it fits. I have a brand new ms 43 regulator that I would be willing to sell you.

[CarbonZHP]

This is huge for Hobbits turbo kit he tested on E46F. Hopefully this develops, because I was hoping to go MS43/turbo in a few years

[rkneeshaw]

Wouldn't you also need to change the O2 sensors from the wideband LSU 4.2 based sensors in our cars to the narrowband sensors that the MS43 cars have?

[wertyu78]

Update:

I am actively looking for an E53 X5 as a new DD. After three great years of DD use, the ZHP is going to be set aside for fun, finally. It's long overdue for some cosmetic love, as well as some odds & ends, here and there. By implementing a new DD, I'll be able to address all of those items, as well as dive deep into this project.

Stay tuned.

[jonnyd330]

Update:

I am actively looking for an E53 X5 as a new DD. After three great years of DD use, the ZHP is going to be set aside for fun, finally. It's long overdue for some cosmetic love, as well as some odds & ends, here and there. By implementing a new DD, I'll be able to address all of those items, as well as dive deep into this project.

Stay tuned.

So I am still curious what is the difference between the 2? What is the advantage of the MS43?

A quick google search revealed the following for pin outs and work others have done: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929951

[CarbonZHP]

Everything above in the thread. The 45 has not been unlocked and is not tunable. The 43 is

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[jonnyd330]

I have been looking at forced induction and it looks like Nick G was able to tune the MS45: http://www.techniquetuning.com/e46zhpman.html

"Technique Tuning MS45 ECU Software Programming (no piggyback to install!)"

Are we talking about the same thing here?

[CarbonZHP]

There's just much less going on with ms45. Everything is all laid out for us with 43

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[jonnyd330]

I hope I am not coming off as being difficult or challenging, I'm really just curious and want to understand.

I was on e46F and found a thread with a link to this site which appears to offer software to reprogram the ms45.

http://bmweditor.com/Home/Product

I don't know anything about what it can or can't do I'm just curious if this makes the 45 any easier?

[rkneeshaw]

MS45.1 can be tuned for forced induction, several companies have done it, ESS, AA, TT, etc. But, they don't know that DME as well as the MS43, and so there are some challenges when tuning it for higher horsepower. It is rumored that ESS didn't release their TS3 kit for the MS45.1 cars because of some issue they ran into with the DME at those higher power levels, for example.

Think of it this way:
MS45.1 - moderate understanding is available, enough to get by, but nothing fancy
MS43 - its an open book, everyone knows how to do just about anything with it

[jonnyd330]

MS45.1 can be tuned for forced induction, several companies have done it, ESS, AA, TT, etc. But, they don't know that DME as well as the MS43, and so there are some challenges when tuning it for higher horsepower. It is rumored that ESS didn't release their TS3 kit for the MS45.1 cars because of some issue they ran into with the DME at those higher power levels, for example.

Think of it this way:
MS45.1 - moderate understanding is available, enough to get by, but nothing fancy
MS43 - its an open book, everyone knows how to do just about anything with it

Thanks for clarifying that. Sounds like its would be worth finding out how hard it is. I want to do high hp turbo kit on my zhp. I would like to try and get 450hp.

[CarbonZHP]

I was planning on 43 for FI down the road. But I want it now for that crackle

[IsaacAndres23]

I was planning on 43 for FI down the road. But I want it now for that crackle

I second that! Can't wait!


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[QC_ZHP]

Really informative vid posted about this on e46f today. This is something thats definitely not in the near future for me but I'm very anxious to follow the progress and see where it goes.

[IsaacAndres23]

What thread is this video posted in? Very curious!


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[QC_ZHP]

How to: Tune your BMW DIY Vid (MS43) (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1096911)

[IsaacAndres23]

Awesome! Thank you!


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[terraphantm]

Update: I am currently on the hunt for the items needed to complete this conversion. My goal is to photo document this process. The first step will be to layout the MS43 harness next to the MS45.1 harness for comparison. I've been doing some reading online and have found that there are some folks who have run into issues with the alternator and throttle body connectors being different between the harnesses, while others claim that it is plug n play.

I don't know how far you got, but in theory the conversion wouldn't be too difficult. There are 5 connectors going into the DME (X60001 -> X60005). The functions are (roughly) the following:

X60001: DME Power
X60002: O2 sensor connections and "transmission harness" (reverse switch)
X60003: Main engine harness
X60004: DME / DSC / Body interface (built into chassis harness)
X60005: Ignition harness

X60001, 2, 3, and 5 can be easily replaced with the MS43 pieces. X60004 cannot be easily replaced, so it will have to be repinned. Also since the MS43 comes with narrowband O2s unlike the MS45.1, you'd have to get MS43 O2 sensors too.

X60001 and 2 come as one piece and the correct part number for a 330 6-speed would be 12517520114 (auto transmission cars will be different)
X60003 can be pulled from any MS43 325/330 - part number is 12517513554
X60005 can be pulled from any 325/330 built between 09/2002 and 03/2003, and any xi built after 09/2002 -- correct part number is 12517518044

Note: RealOEM has some mistakes on the part numbers for these - if it disagrees with what I have, go with what I have listed.

X60004 would have to be repinned slightly (Probably 10 or so wires to move around), not difficult, though I don't have my spreadsheets with the info in front of me right now.

Alternator connector probably won't match, though I think you can just change the voltage regulator and not have to worry about that. Throttle body connector should match since the throttle bodies didn't change.

You'll also have to add an IAT sensor and change to the 3-pin MAF (though if we have full tuning capability on the MS43, it might be feasible to just use the stock 5-pin MAF and rescale the software)

I haven't decided whether or not I want to go this way. I like the wideband O2s in the MS45, so personally I'd rather be able to figure out how to tune this damn thing. But that is looking difficult with how little information there is out there (on the flip side, it seems to be quite similar to the MSV70 structurally, so it should be possible to figure some things out).

Edit: It occurred to me that you'd also have to either delete the secondary air pump or retrofit the MS43 SAP.

[NickZHP]

Interesting... this would allow us to use the EU2 tune on our ZHPs I suppose. Now that I am almost done installing headers I would love to have an EU2 tune instead of paying $500 for some tune chip that does close to the same.

[ELCID86]

Just saw this DIY for DME bench harness. http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1097151


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46fanatic

[CarbonZHP]

Any need for that?

[QC_ZHP]

Any need for that?

It just allows you to power up the DME outside of the car as opposed to doing all of this in-car w/ a battery charger. So no, not needed, but a little more convenient in certain ways.

[terraphantm]

It just allows you to power up the DME outside of the car as opposed to doing all of this in-car w/ a battery charger. So no, not needed, but a little more convenient in certain ways.

It's particularly nice if you want to use bootmode on the MS43 or a BDM connection on the MS45.

[NickZHP]

Any progress yet? I would love to do this during the summer if I can learn more about the process.

[wertyu78]

Any progress yet? I would love to do this during the summer if I can learn more about the process.

I wish. I'm still looking for a new DD and in the middle of moving from one part of town to another. On top of that, work is slammed. Doesn't help that I spent the long weekend on the east coast.

[terraphantm]

Thanks to a generous forum member on e46fanatics, I've acquired almost everything necessary for the conversion. I'll probably tackle the job in the spring.

[jonnyd330]

Thanks to a generous forum member on e46fanatics, I've acquired almost everything necessary for the conversion. I'll probably tackle the job in the spring.

Oooh, I'm excited to hear how it goes. Will you be documenting it thoroughly?

[QC_ZHP]

Thanks to a generous forum member on e46fanatics, I've acquired almost everything necessary for the conversion. I'll probably tackle the job in the spring.

Excellent, can't wait to see the process.

[terraphantm]

Oooh, I'm excited to hear how it goes. Will you be documenting it thoroughly?

I'll try my best. I'll probably be working alone though so some pictures would be tough to get.

[NickZHP]

I'll try my best. I'll probably be working alone though so some pictures would be tough to get.

Good luck with the conversion! I'm sure any pics or descriptions of the process would help out many forum members (like me!).

[CarbonZHP]

Hows it coming

[IsaacAndres23]

Any news or updates with the conversion?


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[GotZHP]

So I read a far amount of the tuning thread on E46F before I was even a member here. There is a lot of possibilities to be had for sure.

I've already gone ahead and downloaded the software programs mentioned there, JM flasher, Galletto and Tuner Pro, and also picked up an inpa cable from Amazon. I have an old laptop with XP that is going to be dedicated to this.

Since my ZHP is my DD, my plan was to buy a second DME from a donor / junk yard car and have it set up on a bench to play around with.

Really interested in any updates here. I most likely won't start this project for another 6 months, so if someone goes through the process first, i'd like to hear / see anything I can.

[CarbonZHP]

I can help with your inpa. It was damn hard for me to get going

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[QC_ZHP]

So I read a far amount of the tuning thread on E46F before I was even a member here. There is a lot of possibilities to be had for sure.

I've already gone ahead and downloaded the software programs mentioned there, JM flasher, Galletto and Tuner Pro, and also picked up an inpa cable from Amazon. I have an old laptop with XP that is going to be dedicated to this.

Since my ZHP is my DD, my plan was to buy a second DME from a donor / junk yard car and have it set up on a bench to play around with.

Really interested in any updates here. I most likely won't start this project for another 6 months, so if someone goes through the process first, i'd like to hear / see anything I can.

Post up your bench setup when you get it going. Looking to setup my own in the near future.

[IsaacAndres23]

Any updates?


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[GotZHP]

Unfortunately for me, this project is just barely on the horizon. Have been reading and researching though and following the tuning thread over at e46f. Too many projects still ahead.

Any one else have some updates?

[terraphantm]

No updates for me either. wanted to take care of a few other mechanical pieces on my car before I bothered swapping DMEs.

I also started to get the hang of disassembling the MS45 code, so I'm tempted to keep it.

[GotZHP]

I did some talking today with our electrical Engineer and he has a low voltage power supply that he is going to let me borrow.

Now just need $300 to $400 dollars to source a second DME. If i wasn't coming off a 6 months of unemployment, this would be my summer project, but I get to do maintenance instead. Yay kinda :/

If anyone finds a cheap DME in working condition, I'd consider it. I am avoiding Ebay though, despite seeing them as low as $250 there. Dont want to buy one and have it be all messed up or broken or bricked

[terraphantm]

I did some talking today with our electrical Engineer and he has a low voltage power supply that he is going to let me borrow.

Now just need $300 to $400 dollars to source a second DME. If i wasn't coming off a 6 months of unemployment, this would be my summer project, but I get to do maintenance instead. Yay kinda :/

If anyone finds a cheap DME in working condition, I'd consider it. I am avoiding Ebay though, despite seeing them as low as $250 there. Dont want to buy one and have it be all messed up or broken or bricked

I bought one off eBay for $50 shipped. It works fine. These things are surprisingly resilient. As long as the casing isn't bent or something, I would take the risk.

Are you looking for MS45 or MS43?

Here's a cheap MS43: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-E39-01-03-530i-Engine-computer-DME-Siemens-DME-MS43-PN-7519308-/252170589098?hash=item3ab689d3aa:g:qP0AAOSwZVhWR0f a&vxp=mtr#viTabs_0

And a cheap MS45: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-BMW-X3-AWD-3-0L-Engine-Control-Computer-ECM-ECU-7543158/172215009356?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D36467%26meid%3Dd4b8f65a7f4d42aa8df5849bacf9 0099%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D2623 80569392

[CarbonZHP]

I'll keep my eye open at the salvage

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[NickZHP]

Any progress on this?

[IsaacAndres23]

Tuned in as well!


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[terraphantm]

Any progress on this?

I've decided not to pursue this since I'm now able to work with the MS45 and find it to be a better platform.

[CarbonZHP]

A tuning ability on the ms45 would be a better option than changing to ms43 anyway


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[rkneeshaw]

I've decided not to pursue this since I'm now able to work with the MS45 and find it to be a better platform.

Hey terra, I'm glad someone like you has been able to work with the MS45. Out of curiosity what do you like better about it than the MS43?

I hope someday I'll be able to dig into the MS45, tuning and exploring the DME is very interesting to me.

[terraphantm]

Hey terra, I'm glad someone like you has been able to work with the MS45. Out of curiosity what do you like better about it than the MS43?

I hope someday I'll be able to dig into the MS45, tuning and exploring the DME is very interesting to me.

Big one is that it's a torque managed DME. The DME knows what combination of throttle, revs, fuel, vanos, spark, etc leads to X torque. When I press down my foot, I'm requesting more torque, and the DME figures out what to do from there. It's a different sort of control scheme, but IMO a better one. I also like that the MS45.1 uses wideband O2 sensors, which should make things like going E85 feasible. And the MS45 does have support for a "sport mode" - which for now only switches the throttle map, but should be possible to repurpose to support other map changes. And with the way the input is setup, I don't think it would be too difficult to have multiple modes rather than just sport and non-sport.

The MS45 also has a much faster CPU, and I find the PowerPC code to be easier to follow than the C167 code from the MS43. It does have some security that has to be dealt with (RSA), but that should be feasible.

[IsaacAndres23]

How has the progress been with MS45 if any? In terms of forced induction, how far along is the MS45?


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[330i ZHP]

I attempted the ms45.1 to ms43 swap 4/5 yrs ago on my ZHP. I had the engine harnesses, alternator, 3wire maf, o2 sensors, DME, etc etc etc...under the hood things were plug and play. Especially since I was working on the ts3 setup.

The harness for the chassis and the instrument clusters are different and I could not get far enough to get them to communicate. I even attempted to swap to an ms43 cluster but the plugs on the back were different.

I gave up because ESS was able to provide me with a ts3 tune based in the ts2+ tune using the known parameters from the ms43 ts3.

BUT.....I will say the ts3 setup on ms43 felt better/quicker and recorded better performance stats (at best as I could reproduce on the same track with similar temps)

[terraphantm]

The plugs on the clusters are definitely the same. I don't know what issue you ran into, but that's not it. And you wouldn't have to change it out. Would probably have to add a couple pins though since the MS45 sends some signals over the CAN-bus rather than a direct wire like the MS43. And some minor recoding of the instrument cluster for it to not look for said signals over the can bus.

[rkneeshaw]

Big one is that it's a torque managed DME. The DME knows what combination of throttle, revs, fuel, vanos, spark, etc leads to X torque. When I press down my foot, I'm requesting more torque, and the DME figures out what to do from there. It's a different sort of control scheme, but IMO a better one. I also like that the MS45.1 uses wideband O2 sensors, which should make things like going E85 feasible. And the MS45 does have support for a "sport mode" - which for now only switches the throttle map, but should be possible to repurpose to support other map changes. And with the way the input is setup, I don't think it would be too difficult to have multiple modes rather than just sport and non-sport.

The MS45 also has a much faster CPU, and I find the PowerPC code to be easier to follow than the C167 code from the MS43. It does have some security that has to be dealt with (RSA), but that should be feasible.

Fascinating.

The wideband O2's are definitely nice. I log data from the MS45.1 and know what my AFR is based on the pre-cat O2 sensor voltages, no need for an aftermarket sensor and controller.

You just gave me a really exciting idea... I've been wanting to run methanol injection... that sport mode switch might be a solution to a methanol/non-methanol tune that could be switched on the fly (as a safety in case the methanol runs out), and be totally OEM looking... OMG!

[330i ZHP]

The plugs on the clusters are definitely the same. I don't know what issue you ran into, but that's not it. And you wouldn't have to change it out. Would probably have to add a couple pins though since the MS45 sends some signals over the CAN-bus rather than a direct wire like the MS43. And some minor recoding of the instrument cluster for it to not look for said signals over the can bus.

Maybe it was because the wagon was also originally automatic???

[terraphantm]

You just gave me a really exciting idea... I've been wanting to run methanol injection... that sport mode switch might be a solution to a methanol/non-methanol tune that could be switched on the fly (as a safety in case the methanol runs out), and be totally OEM looking... OMG!
I think it's feasible. The DME broadcasts whether or not it's in sport mode on the CAN-bus. So I built an arduino module that I wired into my CAN-bus to read the status. Right now the only thing it's doing is switching the sport LED on/off on my M3 switch panel. But I could theoretically have the arduino control anything else. So turning on meth injection is possible. And I was thinking of having exhaust cutouts controlled by sport mode too (kinda like the F8x M).

On the DME side, it would require a bit of custom code, but it should be totally feasible to have alternate fuel, ignition, vanos, etc targets based on that sport status.


Maybe it was because the wagon was also originally automatic???

Honestly, I don't think that should be an issue either. I know of at least two MS45.1 auto wagons that were converted to MSS54 6MT cars without too much trouble. MS43 conversion should be even easier.

[rkneeshaw]

Bump. Anyone have more complete info?

For harnesses do we only need the engine harness, ignition harness, and the transmission/O2 sensor harness? Then its plug and play with MS43 DME, 3-pin MAF, IAT, narrowband O2 sensors?

What about the connectors to the IAT and 3-pin MAF? Or are those part of the engine harness?

Any more info on the alternator, so you have to repin it or buy a MS43 alternator? Is the connector for the alternator part of the engine harness?

It looks like part number 12517523226 is the correct one for the transmission/O2 sensor harness.

What about the battery light in the instrument cluster, someone said that doesnt' work?

[rkneeshaw]

Adding some info from over on e46f:

To do this conversion completely plug and play you will need:
MS43 engine harness (plenty of them on eBay for cheap)
MS43 DME
MS43 MAF 13627567451
Manual transmission/O2 sensors harness 12517520114 (6 speed in my case)
Ignition harness 12517518044 (for late style coils)
Alternator voltage regulator 2 pin 12317559183 plug n play
Intake temperature sensor 13621739510
Pre cat O2 sensors 11781742050 (I'm deleting post cat sensors)

So there are a couple things left that I'm still not 100% clear on.

1. You can probably make yourself an adapter for the alternator if you don't want to swap the regulator. You'd need a 3-pin EV1 male connector and a few BMW parts for the oval connector: BMW Oval plug Qty 1 (12527507259), BMW Protective cap for oval plug Qty 1 (12527506439), BMW wire/bushing for oval plug Qty 2 (12520007172). I'm not clear what is the better route to go. It sounds like if you just wire up the existing regulator you might need to recode your instrument cluster? But I've heard at least one confirmed report that you can swap the regulator and no recoding of the cluster was necessary. So I'm not sure if swapping the regulator or building an adapter is a better more plug-and-play route.

2. O2 sensor harness. I've seen it posted that you want part number 12517520114 but they are $400+ and I can't find any used. EDIT: part number 12517523226 is the MS45.1 based harness, you don't want that one. I believe any harness for a manual MS43 car will work, doesnt have to be 6-speed.

3. If the cluster does need to be recoded to keep the battery light functional, what exactly needs to be changed? I haven't found the answer to this yet either.

The research continues...

[CarbonZHP]

My swap is happening this week

[JPMo]

My swap is happening this week

In for the deets, please make a separate thread with tune info and gains!

[CarbonZHP]

Have been running MS43 for about 2 weeks now. All is good, and I just passed smog readiness with no cats or SAP. Attached is my dyno using a free tune published on MS43wiki, versus my previous Markert Motorworks tune on the MS45. The MS45 is the runs with the 4k dip. The MS43 runs also had 3 gallons of E85, though I dont think it took advantage of it.

https://preview.ibb.co/hjRCap/document.jpg (https://ibb.co/bT5igU)

[YoitsTmac]

Have been running MS43 for about 2 weeks now. All is good, and I just passed smog readiness with no cats or SAP. Attached is my dyno using a free tune published on MS43wiki, versus my previous Markert Motorworks tune on the MS45. The MS45 is the runs with the 4k dip. The MS43 runs also had 3 gallons of E85, though I dont think it took advantage of it.

https://preview.ibb.co/hjRCap/document.jpg (https://ibb.co/bT5igU)

Sorry, is smog readiness the same as passing smog? Without cats?

[CarbonZHP]

Sorry, is smog readiness the same as passing smog? Without cats?

It'll pass the plug in but no visual or sniffer obviously


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[BerDz3nA]

I have converted it. Check my post:

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?21379-ZHP-NA-Project-More-Power

Page: 13

[rkneeshaw]

With Renovelo Bytetuner out, I dont know if I see any reason to convert to MS43 anymore. You can tune MS45.1 and someone just figured out how to force the cats to show readiness too (published on ms4x.net).

I suppose if you need to go really exotic with your build like super high boost with a super aggressive turbo or supercharger setup (think ESS TS stage 3 with lower compression pistons, or E85, etc) then swapping to MS43 still makes sense IMO.

[CarbonZHP]

Yeah like mine. Ethanol, boost, maf flexibility, well defined tables and tuners that know it. Ms45 won't ever be what ms43 is


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