Improving steering feel

[Lorenzo]

I recently purchased my 2005 ZHP with 114,800 miles. At the same time I sold a 2004 325 convertible with 23,700 miles. One of the key differences I notice is in steering feel. With the low mileage 325, the steering was noticeably tighter even at very low speeds - 5 to 10 mph. At this low speed, when I turn the wheel side to side it was heavy and tight. The steering wheel would spring back strong and tight when I would turn to one side and let go. My ZHP feels looser. The shocks are original on the ZHP, and I'm planned to upgrade to Koni Sports in the future, but I don't think the old shocks and struts are causing this difference. What other steering components could be the cause and need replacement? I read on someone's project forum about tie rods. Could that be it?

Thanks for your help.

[BMWCurves]

I'd say struts/shocks, various bushings, steering coupler, control arms, and a good alignment should set you straight. Not sure about tie rods, someone else who has replaced them can speak to that or other components.

[KevinC]

At that mileage your shocks/struts have been toast for ages - stockers are shot by 50k easily. As William states above, you probably need just about everything refreshed. My ZHP is at 82k miles and I did a fairly comprehensive refresh when I bought it at 52k miles, and it's tight as a drum still to this day. Best steering feel of ANY car I've ever owned. Good luck - once you've tackled this, you'll definitely be pleased with the results.

[ELCID86]

Maybe start with FCABs. I'd recommend the Z4M ones. Konis go on sale in March I think. And steering coupler/guibo.


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"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46f member

[Lorenzo]

Thanks for the advice. The front and rear trailing arm control bushing were replaced by previous owner at 93,000 miles, in June 2013. I should have mentioned that in my OP.

[Lorenzo]

Maybe start with FCABs. I'd recommend the Z4M ones. Konis go on sale in March I think. And steering coupler/guibo.


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46f member

I think you're on to something with the steering coupler. In the post below, the same complaint as mine - play in steering wheel and loose in steering wheel. Once they changed the coupler, folks immediately noticed the tighter steering.

http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=917747

[Simmsled]

I have had 4 E46s.
Steering coupler was bad on all of them.
Shawn is spot on.
Also, tires and tire pressure play a role here.
Start with checking pressures, get an alignment check, absolutely do the steering coupler, and report back!
Shocks, etc after that.

[Lorenzo]

Ordered steering coupler from ECS Tuning today. I'll report back after install and test drive. Thanks!

[ELCID86]

I'd say struts/shocks, various bushings, steering coupler, control arms, and a good alignment should set you straight. Not sure about tie rods, someone else who has replaced them can speak to that or other components.
The coupler was William's idea first, I was just echoing it. Though I have had 4 E46s and don't think it was bad on any of them...

[BMWCurves]

The coupler was William's idea first, I was just echoing it. Though I have had 4 E46s and don't think it was bad on any of them...

Cheers.

I don't think I've ever experienced a bad steering coupler either, but I remember reading Simmsled, maybe johnrando and a few other users a few months ago talking about the improved feel of the steering after they replaced the coupler.

Hope it works out, Lorenzo!

[johnrando]

No, I did not replace my steering coupler.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Vas]

I replaced it on both of my cars

[BMWCurves]

No, I did not replace my steering coupler.

I replaced it on both of my cars

Mixing you two up. I couldn't remember who exactly had replaced their couplers.

[Vas]

Mixing you two up. I couldn't remember who exactly had replaced their couplers.

The first one I replaced was cracked. Second one I replaced was broken in half. Immediate change in steering feel.

[Dave1027]

Don't forget the strut mounts. They have a direct impact on steering feel and performance.

[stephenkirsh]

+1 to tires and tire pressure

[Au1994]

+2on tire pressure. I checked mine and they were embarrassingly low. Helped some of the instability I began to detect. Still sending her in tomorrow for a host of bushings and control arms. Doing fronts for sure and the rears are a wait and see approach. My Indy is cool and we have a good level of trust. Got a little bit of noise coming from the right front. I suspect bearings or maybe even a sticky caliper. The latter happened once but by the time I could pull over and take a look a bump freed it up ��

[Dr Dynamite]

Maybe start with FCABs. I'd recommend the Z4M ones. Konis go on sale in March I think. And steering coupler/guibo.


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46f member
How good is the koni sale gonna be? I'm planning on getting some FSD'S

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

[ELCID86]

How good is the koni sale gonna be? I'm planning on getting some FSD'S

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

Vas and. Dan? 35% off?


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46f member

[Vas]

It's 25% and some places offer free shipping. A full set of koni yellows were under $500 shipped. Sale starts 3/1/16 iirc.

Fsd might be more though

[Lorenzo]

Wow $500 is a great price. Best I found was $650 on autoanything.com. I can wait until March.

[Vas]

Wow $500 is a great price. Best I found was $650 on autoanything.com. I can wait until March.
That's why I am waiting for currently. In the meantime I bought the rest of the parts to rebuild the suspension

[BMWCurves]

Yup, got my Koni Yellows for $500. They were like $575 on sale at TireRack if I recall.

[Vas]

Yup, got my Koni Yellows for $500. They were like $575 on sale at TireRack if I recall.
Come on March.

[KevinC]

Come on March.

No kidding. I almost bought a set of Koni Yellows for my M5 but then missed the end of the sale, and WHAM, prices are way up. Didn't realize it was such a huge discount. Will definitely catch the deal this spring.

[ELCID86]

My car on yellows is feeling much better now that I've softened them up. Not sure why I thought firmer would be better. ??


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46f member

[Vas]

No kidding. I almost bought a set of Koni Yellows for my M5 but then missed the end of the sale, and WHAM, prices are way up. Didn't realize it was such a huge discount. Will definitely catch the deal this spring.
Yeah. Looking forward to it alot.

My car on yellows is feeling much better now that I've softened them up. Not sure why I thought firmer would be better. ??


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46f member
Lol.

[KevinC]

My car on yellows is feeling much better now that I've softened them up. Not sure why I thought firmer would be better. ??


Correct me if I'm wrong - but my recollection is that the adjustment on the Yellows is supposed to be for wear? In other words, you start off on "full soft", which probably should be called "normal", then as they wear, you crank it up a bit at a time. I'm quite sure I've hear/read this in the past, but I most commonly nowadays read about people using them to adjust right out of the box. Anybody know definitively what the correct answer is?

[az3579]

Correct me if I'm wrong - but my recollection is that the adjustment on the Yellows is supposed to be for wear? In other words, you start off on "full soft", which probably should be called "normal", then as they wear, you crank it up a bit at a time. I'm quite sure I've hear/read this in the past, but I most commonly nowadays read about people using them to adjust right out of the box. Anybody know definitively what the correct answer is?

The adjustments aren't there for "wear" adjustment, they're there so you can fine tune your ride quality. It's merely a coincidence that people see it as a "wear adjustment". If that works, then consider it a "party trick" for the Yellows. :)

[Lorenzo]

Is an alignment required after replacing the steering coupler? I was planning to do the coupler now and new shocks in spring. But if both require alignment, it makes sense to do at the same time to avoid two alignments.

[KevinC]

Here's what Koni says about adjustment...

Q: What is the best adjustment setting for my shocks?

A: There is no single best adjustment setting for your KONIs because every driver has different preferences for comfort, performance, performance modifications and roads to drive on. For most vehicles, we suggest that new KONIs be installed in the full soft position. (the standard setting right out of the box) to take advantage of the balance of ride comfort and handling designed by the KONI ride development engineers. If the car has performance upgrades (springs, wheel/tire packages, etc.) or the driver wants the car a bit more aggressive, most people find the optimum setting in the 1/2 to one full turn from the full soft range. Over the extended life of the damper or if the driver wants a specific firm handling characteristic, the dampers can be adjusted up higher. Very rarely will KONI ever need to be adjusted to the full firm setting.

[Vas]

Is an alignment required after replacing the steering coupler? I was planning to do the coupler now and new shocks in spring. But if both require alignment, it makes sense to do at the same time to avoid two alignments.

If you are really careful, you can install it without needing an alignment. But I would wait till spring.

[slater]

The first one I replaced was cracked. Second one I replaced was broken in half. Immediate change in steering feel.

vas, could you see the crack before you replaced it? i inspected my original coupler and could not see any cracking or significant deformation when turning the wheel. i have a new one here that i bought and elected not to replace it after inspection.

[Vas]

vas, could you see the crack before you replaced it? i inspected my original coupler and could not see any cracking or significant deformation when turning the wheel. i have a new one here that i bought and elected not to replace it after inspection.
Nope. It was not visible until I removed it. I twisted it with my hands and it fell apart.

So I bought a poly bushing.

[slater]

Nope. It was not visible until I removed it. I twisted it with my hands and it fell apart.

So I bought a poly bushing.

AKG, correct? how do you like it? i remember their website says "not for street use."

[Vas]

AKG, correct? how do you like it? i remember their website says "not for street use."

That is correct. And I like it alot. But then both of the cars had rubber units that were worn out so there was going to be an improvement either way.

This was more of a long term decision since the rubber just wears out. But the steering feel has more of a direct feeling I think with them when it is loaded up or at low speeds.

Plus my alignment guy said it makes getting the front end aligned easier. I think you might like it.

EDIT:

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=13349&d=1397239536

[slater]

That is correct. And I like it alot. But then both of the cars had rubber units that were worn out so there was going to be an improvement either way.

This was more of a long term decision since the rubber just wears out. But the steering feel has more of a direct feeling I think with them when it is loaded up or at low speeds.

Plus my alignment guy said it makes getting the front end aligned easier. I think you might like it.

EDIT:

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=13349&d=1397239536

cool, thanks for the pic and feedback. i agree about the rubber wearing out, and also about the poly being better under load.

i'm gonna order one and install it in my original coupler (still in the car), so i can have the new OE one for backup.

[ELCID86]

The adjustments aren't there for "wear" adjustment, they're there so you can fine tune your ride quality. It's merely a coincidence that people see it as a "wear adjustment". If that works, then consider it a "party trick" for the Yellows. :)

That's what I thought (and felt).


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46f member

[Simmsled]

Is an alignment required after replacing the steering coupler? I was planning to do the coupler now and new shocks in spring. But if both require alignment, it makes sense to do at the same time to avoid two alignments.

The geometry for toe/camber/caster etc. does not change with the replacement of the steering coupler.
No alignment is technically needed after replacing it from a wear/handling perspective. BUT...
The only potential issue would be if the last alignment was completed with the steering coupler "loaded" to one direction.
The deviation from dead center (new steering coupler) and an old one, could be 0 to a few degrees of angle that the steering wheel sits in front of you.
SO... Tire wear will never worsen from the replacement, but the steering wheel may look a slight bit off, which would require an alignment to rectify.

[fredo]

Added the steering coupler to my wish list.

[Just_George]

The geometry for toe/camber/caster etc. does not change with the replacement of the steering coupler.
No alignment is technically needed after replacing it from a wear/handling perspective. BUT...
The only potential issue would be if the last alignment was completed with the steering coupler "loaded" to one direction.
The deviation from dead center (new steering coupler) and an old one, could be 0 to a few degrees of angle that the steering wheel sits in front of you.
SO... Tire wear will never worsen from the replacement, but the steering wheel may look a slight bit off, which would require an alignment to rectify.

My car did require an alignment after replacing the coupler. Not really sure why, but the steering wheel was off-center by perhaps 20 degrees after the install, which then threw a code that said "implausible signal from steering angle sensor" and triggered the DSC lights. Alignment corrected the problem...

[Simmsled]

My car did require an alignment after replacing the coupler. Not really sure why, but the steering wheel was off-center by perhaps 20 degrees after the install, which then threw a code that said "implausible signal from steering angle sensor" and triggered the DSC lights. Alignment corrected the problem...

Yup. Your coupler was toast. Lol

[Lorenzo]

Met Benny (SKYWALKER) today for lunch in Herndon, VA. It was great to talk shop - BMWs, ZHPs, M3s, etc. and meet in person with a fellow Mafia member.

Got a chance to take his newly purchased 2004 OB/beige ZHP sedan with 46k mi on a test drive. I've been wanting to drive a low mileage ZHP - to compare to mine. He's got a terrific car. Very clean inside and out. The key driving difference was:

1 Tighter Suspension - bounced back quicker and firmer than mine (115k mi).
2 Tighter Steering - no play in wheel. Mine has some play and feels looser
3 Clutch- Pedal was heavier and firmer to press down than mine. But I am ok with mine as is.

So I'm sold - New shocks and struts needed to tighten suspension and new steering coupler will alleviate steering wheel play.

Just waiting until Koni sale in March.

[cakM3]

I have dealt with Benny a few times and he has always been a great guy to buy from... hopefully someday when I'm in the area I will have the opportunity to meet up with Benny :thumbsup Glad to see you guys had a great time!

[ELCID86]

Met Benny (SKYWALKER) today for lunch in Herndon, VA. It was great to talk shop - BMWs, ZHPs, M3s, etc. and meet in person with a fellow Mafia member.

Got a chance to take his newly purchased 2004 OB/beige ZHP sedan with 46k mi on a test drive. I've been wanting to drive a low mileage ZHP - to compare to mine. He's got a terrific car. Very clean inside and out. The key driving difference was:

1 Tighter Suspension - bounced back quicker and firmer than mine (115k mi).
2 Tighter Steering - no play in wheel. Mine has some play and feels looser
3 Clutch- Pedal was heavier and firmer to press down than mine. But I am ok with mine as is.

So I'm sold - New shocks and struts needed to tighten suspension and new steering coupler will alleviate steering wheel play.

Just waiting until Koni sale in March.

Good call. I'd say no big rush after driving your car. I also found out my steering guibo was replaced by the PO.

You need a CDV delete...


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"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46fanatic

[mynamenumber]

As a new ZHP owner, and not a great font of car knowledge, I'm not totally clear on the differences I might experience between a OEM replacement for front and rear shocks VS the Koni Yellow option.

Is there a "for dummies" reading I can do on the topic? Thanks much!

EDIT: Thanks Just_George, and I should have mentioned: my '05 has just around 70k miles, and I believe it's original suspension (maybe new FCABs). Recent inspection noted that the right rear shock has a tiny leak, may want to replace within the year.

[Just_George]

Most (maybe all!) folks on this site know more than I, but here's my take on it. It will depend a lot on how many miles are on your car and, more specifically, the shocks/struts. When new, the OEM units were very good, but they are not reknowned for holding up well over time. Installing the Konis sports at their softest setting will restore the as-new feel, resulting in a better ride and firmer, crisper handling and better control. Dial them up a bit and your ride will likely suffer a bit, but handling will improve. As I said, others (BP, Simmsled, etc.) can and hopefully will provide more concise feedback.

[BMWCurves]

Just_George pretty much said it. The Sachs units that come on our cars are good, but only last 40-50k according to some people. When I refreshed my suspension in the fall, my original shocks had ~50k miles on them, but they were shot when I removed them. I replaced them with Koni Sports (yellows). I installed them 3/4 turn from full soft and are firmer than the shocks that I removed. However, I should say that the ride is still more comfortable than my old shocks. They handle bumps and ruts better. Supposedly full-soft Konis should be similar to the OEM Sachs units.

I am very happy with my Konis. You can read about my suspension refresh in my refresh thread for more info: http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?16182-Help-with-Suspension-Refresh-at-50k-miles-10-years

[ELCID86]

^pretty much ditto here. Though I started several turns from soft and really regretted it... I'd say 3/4 to 1 turn is all you should go for DD.


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"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46fanatic

[mynamenumber]

Thanks guys, sounds like I might want to mark my calendar for the March sale!