Expansion Tank vs Whole Cooling System

[JohnnyGraphic]

Hi All-

It's been a long time since I've been active on this forum. I'm turning to you all for your collective wisdom.

Here's my problem. My expansion tank just cracked at 138k miles. I've already replaced the whole cooling system (hoses, tank, thermostat, water pump, pulleys, belts and sensors) at 70k miles.

Do I just replace the expansion tank or do I go all-in and replace the whole system again?

If I replace the whole system, should I replace the water pump as well? (It's a Graf pump with the metal impeller). What about the radiator?

Trying to keep cost down, but I'd hate to replace one thing, only to have the other items fail on me. But, if they don't need to be, why spend the money? Those are the questions going thru my mind at the moment.

Let me know how the Mafia votes!

Thanks all and appreciate any helpful suggestions.

[Vas]

60k-70k intervals sounds about normal for the cooling system.

I would do the system again. And not worry till 200k.

[JohnnyGraphic]

60k-70k intervals sounds about normal for the cooling system.

I would do the system again. And not worry till 200k.

That was my initial thoughts, but I was talking with another guy and he is in the other camp of 'don't spend money or replace stuff you don't need to'. That idea appeals to my pocket book! LOL!

What do you think about the water pump and/or radiator?

[Vas]

Radiator I would replace when it starts to leak. Usually the end tanks Crack first.

With the water pump, the impeller might be fine but never know the condition of the bearings inside.
Cooling system is something not to mess around with.

[danewilson77]

68k? Dhu eet all.

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[JohnnyGraphic]

Seems like the overwhelming majority is to go whole-hog and replace it all. Dang, I knew this was going to be an expensive endeavor.

[fredo]

True story on my first e46: Around 145,000 miles my Indy recommended lots of work on the coolant system. I agreed to his recommendations. 4,000 miles later the water pump busted. Not sure why he didn't replace it in the first place. Thankfully no engine damage.

As a side note, this WP issue happened to the new owner on his first day of ownership. Yeah, I sold the car before the mess.

[ELCID86]

I'd do it all but would consider skipping the rad.


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46f member

[JohnnyGraphic]

With everything else off the front of the engine, I might as well replace the water pump. A lot of good solid advice here. Nice to see things haven't changed over the years. A lot of the same ole faces from back in the day. NICE!

You're all reinforcing what I was thinking. The added cost of adding a WP isn't bad at all. Especially if considering having it changed out at a later time.

Now, I gotta go shopping... Any advice on specific parts to get? As in BMW vs X Brand of this part and X Brand of this part and not a BMW part. I've seen both sides of the argument on the BMW composite impeller vs a Graf unit (for example).

[JohnnyGraphic]

I'd do it all but would consider skipping the rad.


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46f member

Thanks Elcid! The radiator is a pretty hefty investment. If cost were no object, I would LOVE to replace the radiator with an all metal/aluminum unit and same with the expansion tank. Not even sure if they make such a beast. I love this car and would love to keep it running for a long time.

I need to drive it more too. I only put about 7k miles this past year. I've moved a lot closer to my office now. Which reminds me, I need to update my location.

Johnny

[wsmeyer]

You also have to take into account how far from home you drive and how badly you need your car. If something does fail you'll need to tow it home and either pay dealership prices for parts or wait out probably 5 days to collect it all from online sources.

[JohnnyGraphic]

You also have to take into account how far from home you drive and how badly you need your car. If something does fail you'll need to tow it home and either pay dealership prices for parts or wait out probably 5 days to collect it all from online sources.

Redondo Beach eh? My older brother lives down there. We grew up in Gardena and the family moved up to Concord in 83. Miss the beaches so much.

You bring up a good point and another valid point of view. My commute is less than 15 minutes in stop and go traffic. As y'all know, that type of driving is very tough on a car. Fluids just don't get up to operating temps etc. So, on a normal week, if it were to fail, I'm close to home and a few BMW shops to get it fixed, including a BMW Dealership. I do have the luxury of letting the car sit and ordering the parts for it and doing the work myself.

On the other hand, if/when we do go for a trip, the ZHP is the one we go in. I'd hate to get stranded. Last year we went to Death Valley. Glad it didn't give up the ghost then!!! I want to keep it as reliable as possible and fend off any future problems with as much preventative maintenance as possible (as was the cooling system refresh at 70k).

I kind of figured I would be able to hold off on another cooling system overhaul until 150k or so. But, I guess I'm due for it though.

I priced out a Level 3 system at roughly $600 (aftermarket parts) which includes a radiator at ECS Tuning. Might just go ahead and pull the trigger on this soon. Anybody have any experience with the ECS refresh kit and/or their parts?

https://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-330i-M54_3.0L/Engine/Cooling/Refresh_Kit/ES2228846/


Thanks all!!!

Johnny

[Vas]

Check out the cooling kits from Turner Motorsports or Tischer BMW

[BMWCurves]

Check out the cooling kits from Turner Motorsports or Tischer BMW

+1 I used the Turner Motorsport kit found here (http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-1987-complete-cooling-system-overhaul-package-1999-2006-e46-323i-325i-328i-330i.aspx). All the parts were good and had no real issues during installation.

I also agree you might as well go all in on a cooling system overhaul. You could skip the radiator if you wanted, but BMW, for whatever reason, decided plastic inlets and outlets to the radiator was a smart way to go. I've never experienced it on an E46, but on the E39 that was a well known weak point and failed pretty reliably on my father's E39 (every 6 years or ~60k miles...he's actually due for that radiator to burst again).

Anyways, some people do make all aluminum radiators but they're expensive as far as I recall. Basically the cost of two OEM radiators. But maybe they've gotten cheaper. I think there is an aluminum expansion tank that was recently posted somewhere on here, but there are supposedly fitment issues with it.

[ELCID86]

There was a recent post on aluminum ET and Rad I think.
Not sure if they are worth the premium though.

As far as being close to work, I wish I did. I'm about 45 miles in DC traffic... Some days I don't drive and only go about 5 miles to the commuter lot. The car really doesn't have time to warm up. I often go a bit out of the way just to give it a little longer to warm up.


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46f member

[az3579]

That was my initial thoughts, but I was talking with another guy and he is in the other camp of 'don't spend money or replace stuff you don't need to'. That idea appeals to my pocket book! LOL!

What do you think about the water pump and/or radiator?
He obviously doesn't own a BMW.

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[JohnnyGraphic]

+1 I used the Turner Motorsport kit found here (http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-1987-complete-cooling-system-overhaul-package-1999-2006-e46-323i-325i-328i-330i.aspx). All the parts were good and had no real issues during installation.

I also agree you might as well go all in on a cooling system overhaul. You could skip the radiator if you wanted, but BMW, for whatever reason, decided plastic inlets and outlets to the radiator was a smart way to go. I've never experienced it on an E46, but on the E39 that was a well known weak point and failed pretty reliably on my father's E39 (every 6 years or ~60k miles...he's actually due for that radiator to burst again).

Anyways, some people do make all aluminum radiators but they're expensive as far as I recall. Basically the cost of two OEM radiators. But maybe they've gotten cheaper. I think there is an aluminum expansion tank that was recently posted somewhere on here, but there are supposedly fitment issues with it.

Thanks for the link. Looks pretty pricey compared to the one I was looking at on ECS Tuning's website (aftermarket parts). Not sure if my Fico score can handle that! Hahaha! Seriously though, not sure if the BMW parts are worth the premium in some cases.

I figure since the rest of the system is going to be new, why not just replace the radiator too.

Yup. You said it-all that plastic! Kind of irritating given the premium on these cars. I know they wanted to have X% to be recyclable. But SHEESH! Those parts don't play very well with constant hot/cold temps. They are definitely failure prone and have a short lifespan.


There was a recent post on aluminum ET and Rad I think.
Not sure if they are worth the premium though.

As far as being close to work, I wish I did. I'm about 45 miles in DC traffic... Some days I don't drive and only go about 5 miles to the commuter lot. The car really doesn't have time to warm up. I often go a bit out of the way just to give it a little longer to warm up.


After I posted that, I did a search and found an aluminum thermostat, but found that it had its own set of problems, so they discontinued making it.

My previous commute was closer to 30 minutes with quite a bit of freeway driving, so my girl was able to stretch her legs every day. :) But now, it's less than 4 miles. Especially with our temps dipping into the 30's on the way to work, it's not the greatest environment for a car to barely get up to temps and then shut down. Poor girl wants to get back out and run!!! I did take a nice road trip up to Oregon earlier this year and it was awesome. Went camping and I was surprised at how much stuff I was able to hide in the car! :)

Anyways, back on topic, going to go all-in fellas. Wish me luck! Anybody in the Martinez area want to give an old ZHP shade-tree mechanic a hand? LOL!

Thanks again for all of your input and advice!

Johnny

[JohnnyGraphic]

He obviously doesn't own a BMW.

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Hahaha! He actually used to own a 540i and tweaked it out with a supercharger etc. But, he also goes thru cars pretty quickly. He's had so many I've lost count. So, in his situation, since he doesn't hang on to them for very long, it doesn't make sense to do a lot of preventative maintenance for the long haul like we do.

[bosszhp]

Just had a similar situation; about 1k ago my Indy replaced my thermostat and waterpump, nothing else... now I need an expansion tank. So yeah, just do it all at once.