Pricing opinion: BMWP

[BADCLOWN]

what do you guys think is a fair price for 3yr old used BMWP calipers (no pads or rotors, just the front calipers/brackets)?


I'm thinking if they are mechanically 100% and aesthetically 100% $600-800 range, but correct me if I'm wrong.

[danewilson77]

< or = $500

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[az3579]

Just the fronts or including the rears?

The cheapest price I found online was $439 each for a front left, so about $878 for the pair assuming the right is the same price. Consider that those have the stock ceramic coated pistons, which tend to crack under high heat situations. For a street driven car this doesn't matter, just don't overheat your brakes on those canyon runs.

Used, 3 years old, my opinion is that they're worth about $500-550 in working but excellent cosmetic condition, without pads. If they have some paint chips here and there, I'd say closer to $400.

For reference, I sold my pair of from Performance calipers with brackets for $500, and that included stainless steel piston upgrades AND high temp seals from Racingbrake.com. My set did, however, have some issues, which is why I sold them at that price. I included the brake pads for that price as well - EBC Redstuff pads. I don't remember if I included the Hawk HP+ pads as well... I think I did, but Ray can chime in.

[Karl Lazlo]

I think I did, but Ray can chime in.

Chiming in... Yeah, what he said. BP did include the pads and dust boots, but I went with new (not that I don't trust BP, I do); I have a thing about second hand underwear, brake rotors and pads, and rebuilt them with new seals and boots.

For what I got with with the kit, I thought it to be a fair deal and I am happy with the kit. Issues that BP alludes to I have not experienced. I think the lesson here is that that coffee is an integral ingredient to rebuilding calipers and doing a brake job.

Gratuitous photo:

http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr216/Karl_Lazlo/Public/2015-05-25%2015.45.48_zpsw3qhyoru.jpg (http://s485.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Lazlo/media/Public/2015-05-25%2015.45.48_zpsw3qhyoru.jpg.html)

[BADCLOWN]

yeah, just fronts and the brackets. no rear calipers, no rotors, no pads.

my car won't ever be tracked or be hitting canyon runs extremely hard. these brakes will be a performance AND aesthetic upgrade

[rguti153]

I'll pay 600 bucks , nothing above that considering the whole kit was $1000 bucks 3 years ago n they spike the price last year . So for 800 dollars he getting all his money back pretty much. But don't listen to me I'm foolish lol

[az3579]

yeah, just fronts and the brackets. no rear calipers, no rotors, no pads.

my car won't ever be tracked or be hitting canyon runs extremely hard. these brakes will be a performance AND aesthetic upgrade

So... what's the condition? Considering the upgrade is about 95% aesthetic, the condition will determine its value.

[BADCLOWN]

Waiting on pictures to document the condition. I wouldn't say it's a 95% aesthetic upgrade, I know there's better 6pot upgrades out there but it's not that bad.

[az3579]

Waiting on pictures to document the condition. I wouldn't say it's a 95% aesthetic upgrade, I know there's better 6pot upgrades out there but it's not that bad.

As someone who has experience with the set, I can safely say it's 95% an aesthetic upgrade. :)
When I wasn't having problems with them, the only "performance" benefit I got from them was a VERY slightly firmer pedal. Otherwise, they're quite a bit heavier and significantly harder to change pads on than stock calipers.

From a performance standpoint, having to replace pistons and seals for any kind of use other than the street is also a big negative point. This won't matter to you, I'm just noting other detriments. Realistically, the aesthetics and very minor pedal feel improvement is the reason to get them.

From an aesthetics standpoint, they took the prize. I love the color and the presence they have.

[BADCLOWN]

you tracked your car correct? you said it yourself: for daily driving its fine. slightly better grip coupled with some upgraded rotors will do just fine. AESTHETICALLY: i need to fill the back of the wheel with the 19in CHs being on there

[jonnyd330]

I'll pay 600 bucks , nothing above that considering the whole kit was $1000 bucks 3 years ago n they spike the price last year . So for 800 dollars he getting all his money back pretty much. But don't listen to me I'm foolish lol

Were they really that cheap? Ugh I wish I kept my eye on parts pricing like i looked at cars. I would have snatched those up for that much.

[BADCLOWN]

I wish they were still a grand, I would have just bought them new by now.

[rguti153]

Were they really that cheap? Ugh I wish I kept my eye on parts pricing like i looked at cars. I would have snatched those up for that much.
Yes they were , when they first release them

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[BADCLOWN]

Their price hike I think is because of their custom brackets they have. They might be the only ones that have them so they've kinda got the market cornered.

[rguti153]

True that

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[az3579]

Their price hike I think is because of their custom brackets they have. They might be the only ones that have them so they've kinda got the market cornered.

Actually, the BMW Performance brake upgrade from BMW is also $1700...

[derbo]

I remember when it was $1200 brand new and it was $150 for set of those BMWP rotors. :(


I sold mine for $700. Brake dust seals were melted. I gave two sets of rotors, carbotech pads + OEM 135i pads. It basically required a rebuild.

[BADCLOWN]

Actually, the BMW Performance brake upgrade from BMW is also $1700...



But does BMW sell the adapter brackets?

[az3579]

But does BMW sell the adapter brackets?

Nope. That price was without brackets. Plus, I think you get more in the ECS kit as well, so consider the ECS kit a bargain...

[BADCLOWN]

Even new........for just a front setup I think their kit needs to be priced around 1200

[az3579]

Even new........for just a front setup I think their kit needs to be priced around 1200

"Needs to be" and "is" are two very different things. lol
Kind of like how a new NB seat cover "needs to be" way the f#$% less than $1400 PER SEAT, but just "isn't". :(

I agree, the $1200 price point was a sweet deal, which was the only reason I jumped on it when I did.

[BADCLOWN]

I understand the difference haha, just me complaining/being a crab ass

[az3579]

I understand the difference haha, just me complaining/being a crab ass

There is so much dealer pricing to complain about, I don't blame you.
Then there are the dealers that are worse than others. Like my local dealer who price gouges like a mofo... $560 for a MAF vs $380 at another dealer here. :facepalm

[cakM3]

I just checked the ECS Tuning web site for the BMWP BBK kit and was surprised to see how much they have gone up since the day I purchased my set.... they are now going for $1699.95 or $1799.95 depending on which kit you purchase! Mine cost just under $1100 when I purchased it and I'm glad BP nudged me regarding purchasing this kit before I got my BMWP strut bar :thumbsup Thanks Botond! :)

[fredo]

There is so much dealer pricing to complain about, I don't blame you.
Then there are the dealers that are worse than others. Like my local dealer who price gouges like a mofo... $560 for a MAF vs $380 at another dealer here. :facepalm

Tell me about it. My Indy sometimes buys things from the dealer (example: car key). But instead of the local dealer (Austin) they order from Dallas !

[derbo]

Nope. That price was without brackets. Plus, I think you get more in the ECS kit as well, so consider the ECS kit a bargain...

Yup. Custom brackets + you require longer brake lines to reach the 135i calipers. The stock E46s are too short.

[UdubBadger]

Those 135i pistons are junk. Upgrade them immediately if you track regularly.


GoingHAM mobile

[derbo]

Those 135i pistons are junk. Upgrade them immediately if you track regularly.


GoingHAM mobile

That's the reason I went to Stoptechs.


Sent from Mobile

[az3579]

That's the reason I went to Stoptechs.


Sent from Mobile

Same, only I went to Wilwood.


Those 135i pistons are junk. Upgrade them immediately if you track regularly.


GoingHAM mobile

His purpose will not be for track applications, so he'll be fine with the 135i calipers.

[derbo]

Same, only I went to Wilwood.



His purpose will not be for track applications, so he'll be fine with the 135i calipers.

The BMWP calipers is a damn pretty OEM+ caliper. It will be nice on the streets.


-Sent from Mobile

[UdubBadger]

Even after 50k miles of spirited street driving people have melted Pistons lol


GoingHAM mobile

[Sockethead]

Kristen still has the originals on her 135... no issues and the guy she got it from tracked it... I thought I remember reading that the issue arose when aftermarket pads are used....?

[UdubBadger]

That could have been the trigger for sure.


GoingHAM mobile

[az3579]

Even after 50k miles of spirited street driving people have melted Pistons lol


GoingHAM mobile
"Spirited driving" doesn't cause the boots to melt. The brakes don't get hot enough on a typical spirited drive. If they are getting that hot, then that person is driving way too irresponsibly on public roads.

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[johnrando]

No issues with mine so far.

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[UdubBadger]

"Spirited driving" doesn't cause the boots to melt. The brakes don't get hot enough on a typical spirited drive. If they are getting that hot, then that person is driving way too irresponsibly on public roads.

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Who said anything about responsible BP? It's not me, go check 1addicts and you'll see it wasn't just track guys.


GoingHAM mobile

[az3579]

Who said anything about responsible BP?

Considering his profession, it would be wise to assume he has at least a modicum of responsibility while driving, so I hope you can see how this is relevant.
What I'm getting at is that he won't have this problem as long as he doesn't track it.

[UdubBadger]

I'm not talking about him I'm talking about all the people with failing Pistons on their calipers with various driving styles.

Sure he might be ok, but that wasn't what I was referencing in the first place.

GoingHAM mobile

[derbo]

The consensus is that the failed piston boots are caused by aftermarket pads that sustain higher pad temps


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[johnrando]

So what pads should be used?

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[Sockethead]

OEM

[UdubBadger]

Yeah oem and take it easy on the autoX and tracking


GoingHAM mobile

[BADCLOWN]

Yeah, I don't hot rod around in my zhp haha. Occasional gear run out, highway pull, or hit some back roads but that's it. It's not a Ferrari, it's a ZHP haha. Nor will I ever track the car. Too nice of a car condition wise to track anyways.

[az3579]

Too nice of a car condition wise to track anyways.

A car is NEVER too nice to track. :shifty

[Karl Lazlo]

A car is NEVER too nice to track. :shifty

http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr216/Karl_Lazlo/Public/truth_zpsmuxuu9mp.jpg (http://s485.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Lazlo/media/Public/truth_zpsmuxuu9mp.jpg.html)

[Sockethead]

You'll be fine tracking with OEM pads. Kristen's 135 was tracked a lot. To my knowledge, she still running the original OEM pads

[UdubBadger]

Tbh if you're gonna seriously track it on oem pads I wish you luck. My car burnt through a set of cool carbons on the track and I had to go home early. Granted you won't see the speeds I saw but just saying.


GoingHAM mobile

[BADCLOWN]

Well my ZHP is too nice for ME to track. Plus it costs money to set a car up for that, I'd much rather it be set up as a proper spring/summer/fall daily driver

[danewilson77]

Well my ZHP is too nice for ME to track. Plus it costs money to set a car up for that, I'd much rather it be set up as a proper spring/summer/fall daily driver
This

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[brettbimmer]

Well my ZHP is too nice for ME to track. Plus it costs money to set a car up for that, I'd much rather it be set up as a proper spring/summer/fall daily driver
Oh man, you should take the ZHP to at least one HPDE event. Provided one doesn't overdrive their car or abilities, the ZHP in stock form is a lot of fun. For peace of mind, get some track insurance for the weekend. They say the best way to improve the car's performance is to improve the driver first. That said, I would imagine in your line of work that you already have more skills than 99% of the other...hmmm...clowns(?) on the road.

As someone who has experience with the set, I can safely say it's 95% an aesthetic upgrade. :)
When I wasn't having problems with them, the only "performance" benefit I got from them was a VERY slightly firmer pedal. Otherwise, they're quite a bit heavier and significantly harder to change pads on than stock calipers.

From a performance standpoint, having to replace pistons and seals for any kind of use other than the street is also a big negative point. This won't matter to you, I'm just noting other detriments. Realistically, the aesthetics and very minor pedal feel improvement is the reason to get them.

From an aesthetics standpoint, they took the prize. I love the color and the presence they have.
BP knows what's up here. If you change out to a slightly more agressive pad on stock calipers and keep the OEM rotors, she'd be happy. If you felt the brakes fade, you are either using too much braking, or are over-driving your setup. If one dials it back from 10/10ths to 8/10ths, stock pads or upgrades pads should work fine for spirited or HPDE drives. Now if BMWP jewelry is in order, then that's another story.

Those 135i pistons are junk. Upgrade them immediately if you track regularly.


GoingHAM mobile
Did you have issues with them? Just curious as I hadn't heard of this until now.

Kristen still has the originals on her 135... no issues and the guy she got it from tracked it... I thought I remember reading that the issue arose when aftermarket pads are used....?
I believe it. With less braking and not overdriving the setup, stock pads should be fine.

You'll be fine tracking with OEM pads. Kristen's 135 was tracked a lot. To my knowledge, she still running the original OEM pads
+1.

Tbh if you're gonna seriously track it on oem pads I wish you luck. My car burnt through a set of cool carbons on the track and I had to go home early. Granted you won't see the speeds I saw but just saying.


GoingHAM mobile
I did throw a cool willies pad at the track once. Swapped back into my OEM pads and all was well. Maybe it's just these "cool" branded pads getting hot under pressure.

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[az3579]

You'll be fine tracking with OEM pads. Kristen's 135 was tracked a lot. To my knowledge, she still running the original OEM pads



BP knows what's up here. If you change out to a slightly more agressive pad on stock calipers and keep the OEM rotors, she'd be happy. If you felt the brakes fade, you are either using too much braking, or are over-driving your setup. If one dials it back from 10/10ths to 8/10ths, stock pads or upgrades pads should work fine for spirited or HPDE drives.

I don't agree with these statements. OE pads are junk on the track; they fade after just a few laps, and brake fade seriously ruins the fun and increases the poo-in-pants factor tenfold. When I was FIRST starting out, first few times on the track, I was already cooking the stock pads, and even then I wasn't pushing it close to how much I push it now. Since he's staying on the street, OE pads are perfectly fine though, so this is a non-issue.


Well my ZHP is too nice for ME to track. Plus it costs money to set a car up for that, I'd much rather it be set up as a proper spring/summer/fall daily driver

A car does not need to be set up for track use. This is a very common misconception, and I personally discourage the action of "setting up" the car when going to your few few track events. It is best to know what the car can do in its stock form, and even that takes a while to master before ever having to change anything on the car. All you need is a car that will pass a tech inspection (and of course is safe to drive) and you're good to go. Some people don't go fast enough to even cook the stock pads the first few times out, but I imagine in your case your skill level is higher than your average Joe considering your training.



Did you have issues with them? Just curious as I hadn't heard of this until now.

The 135i pistons are notorious for cracking. They are ceramic coated, and with any kind of serious heat, they crack, requiring replacement of the piston. The most common "fix" for this is stainless steel pistons, which is what I had in my calipers before I sold them. Once again, this is not an issue for street-only driven cars 99% of the time.

[UdubBadger]

^correct and no I didn't have issues but I didn't track my 135i and only had it for 18k miles from new.


GoingHAM mobile

[Sockethead]

IDK I still think you be fine on the occasional track day. Not hard core like BP is doing.
Any stock pad is going to fade. It's what you deal with a street car on the track. I still had a blast on the track day I did with stock ZHP brakes and pads...and plenty of brake fade

[derbo]

I don't agree with these statements. OE pads are junk on the track; they fade after just a few laps, and brake fade seriously ruins the fun and increases the poo-in-pants factor tenfold. When I was FIRST starting out, first few times on the track, I was already cooking the stock pads, and even then I wasn't pushing it close to how much I push it now. Since he's staying on the street, OE pads are perfectly fine though, so this is a non-issue.



A car does not need to be set up for track use. This is a very common misconception, and I personally discourage the action of "setting up" the car when going to your few few track events. It is best to know what the car can do in its stock form, and even that takes a while to master before ever having to change anything on the car. All you need is a car that will pass a tech inspection (and of course is safe to drive) and you're good to go. Some people don't go fast enough to even cook the stock pads the first few times out, but I imagine in your case your skill level is higher than your average Joe considering your training.



The 135i pistons are notorious for cracking. They are ceramic coated, and with any kind of serious heat, they crack, requiring replacement of the piston. The most common "fix" for this is stainless steel pistons, which is what I had in my calipers before I sold them. Once again, this is not an issue for street-only driven cars 99% of the time.


The 135i piston has a ceramic cap on the piston that touches the brake pad. Under normal street driving, these caps are fine but when exercised with aftermarket pads that hold more heat than OEM, the caps can become brittle and ultimately crack under stress. This has been a known problem since the 135i guys started tracking with aftermarket pads. Dust boots will ultimately always melt on most of these calipers so I never really cared about that. The heat retention in these 135i calipers is terrible and I was able to cook them on a mountain cruise (at least what I think is a cruise). LOL

Regardless, the jewelry as someone said, it will be fine. On the track or even spirited driving, they suck. BP rebuilt his and he had nothing but problems. I hated the design for replacing the brake pads with ease and they just never had the bite I wanted even with track pads. Ultimately I outgrew them and went to Stoptech because they are pretty and thats about it.

[Karl Lazlo]

BP rebuilt his and he had nothing but problems.

For the record, BP doesn't own the set anymore; I do. After taking possession of the calipers and brackets, I rebuilt with the provided SS pistons, new seals and dust boots. They have been installed on my 03 since May with nary an issue - with only some "spirited" driving locally. No fade, decent bite with Stoptech rotors and pads. But, the proof will come this spring with a few HPDE and Lapping days. If they suck and turn into a huge heat sink, they will go away.

[derbo]

For the record, BP doesn't own the set anymore; I do. After taking possession of the calipers and brackets, I rebuilt with the provided SS pistons, new seals and dust boots. They have been installed on my 03 since May with nary an issue - with only some "spirited" driving locally. No fade, decent bite with Stoptech rotors and pads. But, the proof will come this spring with a few HPDE and Lapping days. If they suck and turn into a huge heat sink, they will go away.

When BP owned it, he had issues with it. With your new rebuild I'm sure you will have less problems. I've owned mine for a few years with a fair share of HPDE events on them. I took proper precautions with brake ducts, titanium brake shims and excessive cool down laps and pit laps to lower the chances of the ceramic boots destroying on me. Ultimately mine needed a rebuild too and I opted out. I do miss the OE yellow calipers look cause it sure was pretty.


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[az3579]

When BP owned it, he had issues with it. With your new rebuild I'm sure you will have less problems.



He'll have no problems, up until he starts tracking it. It was always fine the three times I rebuilt them; the problems always came after I started tracking them again.

Anyway, we've already established multiple times that this is irrelevant to the OP.

[derbo]

He'll have no problems, up until he starts tracking it. It was always fine the three times I rebuilt them; the problems always came after I started tracking them again.

Anyway, we've already established multiple times that this is irrelevant to the OP.

Hahaha [emoji38]


-Sent from Mobile

[Karl Lazlo]

And if they turn into a bag of snakes this season, they will be de-installed.

/drops mic.

Edit to add: I want to ensure that everyone knows that BP fully disclosed his issues with the kit before I bought them from him. None of the experiences he posted here are or were a surprise. He is a stand up guy.

[az3579]

He is a stand up guy.

Except for when I'm sitting down, which is most of the time.

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[Karl Lazlo]

Except for when I'm sitting down, which is most of the time.

Just making sure that people knew that you weren't some swarmy huckster. Sitting, standing or prone.

[Sockethead]

Lol yep yer not going to get any BS from BP. He's a well respected and valued member. :)

[Karl Lazlo]

Agreed. The only reservation I have about BP is his dislike for seafood.

[az3579]

Agreed. The only reservation I have about BP is his dislike for seafood.

When shit's nasty, I call it out. I keep it real.

[derbo]

Agreed. The only reservation I have about BP is his dislike for seafood.

and his lust over the new Lexus design. Yuck. Ha.


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[Karl Lazlo]

and his lust over the new Lexus design. Yuck. Ha.

Pardon me? I am so disappointed. I will never not look at a Lexus again and not scowl and how I have misjudged BP.