DIY and service records...

[ecrabb]

I was thinking about how I've been keeping my records and thinking about how we regard cars with good service records vs. cars without good service records, and it made me wonder where I (and others here) fall on the continuum.

1) First, a lot of us like to DIY - both to save money and because we like wrenching on our cars to make sure it's done right and because we just enjoy DIY'ing. So, how do you feel about the value of a car that's had extensive DIY work done versus one that's had lots of work done at an indy shop or at the stealer?

2) As a follow-up, assuming much of the work on a car was DIY, what constitutes legit service records? I've been keeping everything in an Excel spreadsheet with dates and mileage, but it occurred to me that it would be very easy to fabricate almost anything you wanted in an Excel spreadsheet. Obviously, receipts for the parts for stated work on my service log can corroborate the log, and the overall condition of my car should be make it clear that the car is well-maintained and cared-for, but it did make me wonder.

So, what are you my fellow Mafias' thoughts on this?

Cheers,
SC

[3ZHP]

I have every detail of my ZHP since I purchased it 9 years ago. This even includes every tank of gas. The work on the car has been shared by myself, two dealerships and one tire store with two different locations. All parts have been OEM BMW except for A few notable aftermarkets, such as Dinan, Turner, Koni & Stewart.

My original intention was to maintain the cars greatest possible value, however; now that it may have better value. I see no reason to do anything with, other than drive it and enjoy it.


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[az3579]

I've seen cars for sale with huge folders bulging with receipts. That's fine and dandy, but the 21st century calls.
Personally I keep all of my records digitally. When I obtain a receipt, I scan it in and store it on Google Drive, alongside the Excel spreadsheet I keep of my maintenance. This way I have access to it at all times, on my phone, computer, tablet, or someone else's computer. This is important because I also keep other tabs with part numbers for things I have bought, want to buy, or just want to keep for reference in case I ever need it. I've pulled out part numbers countless times by just bringing it up on my spreadsheet using my phone.

As far as the physical receipts go, I keep those too, but most of the time I just stack them up on a corner of my desk and "one day" pull out my folder I have for my car that has the title and whatnot in it, and stick the receipts in there. Whenever I get around to it, that is.

How does this affect value? Well, my car has 237k miles on it, so it's practically worthless anyway. It wouldn't make a bit of difference if I sold my car with physical receipts versus digital receipts. But, if my car was a low-mileage pristine example, I'd still do the same. Ultimately, it's up to the buyer to do his/her part with a PPI, which would reveal the replacement of whatever parts I have documented in the digital version (if it's visible). A seller can lie with physical receipts almost as easily as s/he can with digital receipts (physical receipts from another car, perhaps, as a lot of places don't document VIN and/or mileage). It's a crapshoot either way as a buyer; you have to get a feel for whether what's being presented is true. You can usually tell if it's true just based on the way the seller's demeanor is and what condition the car is, so you can have an easier time deciding whether you believe the seller or not.

[danewilson77]

I have every detail of my ZHP since I purchased it 9 years ago. This even includes every tank of gas. The work on the car has been shared by myself, two dealerships and one tire store with two different locations. All parts have been OEM BMW except for A few notable aftermarkets, such as Dinan, Turner, Koni & Stewart.

My original intention was to maintain the cars greatest possible value, however; now that it may have better value. I see no reason to do anything with, other than drive it and enjoy it.


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Your thoughts on 1) and 2) above?

My thoughts on 1):

I think both scenarios are acceptable. The difference is the enthusiast will noted as he's done the work, vice indy. In either case, the bottom line is that the car has been properly maintained.

My thoughts on 2)

I completely understand the comment about doctoring documents. I would simply say that service records (receipts, pictures, spreadsheets, etc) need to be backed up with ppi, or an inspection conducted by yourself if you feel qualified.

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[slater]

I was thinking about how I've been keeping my records and thinking about how we regard cars with good service records vs. cars without good service records, and it made me wonder where I (and others here) fall on the continuum.

1) First, a lot of us like to DIY - both to save money and because we like wrenching on our cars to make sure it's done right and because we just enjoy DIY'ing. So, how do you feel about the value of a car that's had extensive DIY work done versus one that's had lots of work done at an indy shop or at the stealer?

2) As a follow-up, assuming much of the work on a car was DIY, what constitutes legit service records? I've been keeping everything in an Excel spreadsheet with dates and mileage, but it occurred to me that it would be very easy to fabricate almost anything you wanted in an Excel spreadsheet. Obviously, receipts for the parts for stated work on my service log can corroborate the log, and the overall condition of my car should be make it clear that the car is well-maintained and cared-for, but it did make me wonder.

So, what are you my fellow Mafias' thoughts on this?

Cheers,
SC

i think many of us have seen shoddy work done by everyone - dealers, indies, and DIY. i prefer to DIY because i can sleep at night knowing that the car is not going to fall to pieces going down the road with my family in it because i made sure stuff was done right. i am not trying to slam professional techs here - there are lots good ones out there, and my car is in the hands of someone i trust right now for exhaust work, because i know he's as anal as i am about stuff. i am just reeeeally picky.

as for records, i keep receipts and a detailed excel spreadsheet. could it be falsified? sure. as dane mentioned above, a PPI would corroborate the records, and the receipts kept should support them as well. also, most OE-replacement parts have a date of manufacture stamped on them somewhere, so that would help too.

[ecrabb]

Thanks, guys! All good feedback. You guys mostly echoed how I was thinking about it, but just wanted a gut-check to make sure I wasn't missing something.

I've tried scanning receipts and I just don't have the patience or dedication to stick with it. I always start out feeling organized, then I get annoyed when a stack of stuff is sitting there, and I just throw it in the car folder. If I could throw them in the folder and they would just appear on my computer, that would be awesome. :)

I started logging gas fills with GasTracker when I got my car, but quickly realized I didn't really have the patience or dedication for that, either. I'd do it if there were some awesome payback on having every fuel fill logged and I'd definitely do it if the data were collected automagically somehow.

Cheers,
SC

[fredo]

I prefer paper as well. I also have an Excel spreadsheet with svc & repairs. Thanks to carfax and dealer records, I was able to put together most of the history of my car.

[ELCID86]

I posted several years ago here about who had an app for that. Not finding a suitable one I went to paper...


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[NoVAphotog]

I was thinking about how I've been keeping my records and thinking about how we regard cars with good service records vs. cars without good service records, and it made me wonder where I (and others here) fall on the continuum.

1) First, a lot of us like to DIY - both to save money and because we like wrenching on our cars to make sure it's done right and because we just enjoy DIY'ing. So, how do you feel about the value of a car that's had extensive DIY work done versus one that's had lots of work done at an indy shop or at the stealer?

2) As a follow-up, assuming much of the work on a car was DIY, what constitutes legit service records? I've been keeping everything in an Excel spreadsheet with dates and mileage, but it occurred to me that it would be very easy to fabricate almost anything you wanted in an Excel spreadsheet. Obviously, receipts for the parts for stated work on my service log can corroborate the log, and the overall condition of my car should be make it clear that the car is well-maintained and cared-for, but it did make me wonder.

So, what are you my fellow Mafias' thoughts on this?

Cheers,
SC

1) As long as I have digital or physical copies of receipts and/or invoices from shops and can then verify part numbers, mileage, and time frame I'm fine with either form of maintenance or work. It really would come down to my own inspection (looking at date codes where I could, etc) and the PPI.

2) So I think as members here one of the greatest assets we can utilize is our Project and Maintenance threads. Pretty much EVERYTHING I have done or has happened to my car in my ownership is documented in there: Pictures of new parts, pictures of parts lists, pictures of repair work before/after, pictures of install, pictures of car after install, pictures of mileage intervals, my opinions on everything, others comments and advice, compliments, etc. That coupled with the same digital documentation BP mentioned (I use a document scanner along with Google Drive + physical folder) is a significant amount of legit records for a car that has a mixed dealer, indy shop and DIY history.

Obviously, not everyone has time for all that so I think the traditional paper method is more than enough. Save everything applicable to major and/or minor maintenance or repairs and keep it in order by date and miles. Anyone looking to buy will appreciate the fact that folder EXISTS let alone is thought out and organized and provides some insight into the vehicles past.

[johnrando]

You could just take a pic of your receipts with your phone and email it to yourself with a topic of "BMW receipt for xxx". Then, put a filter on your email so all incoming email with the title "BMW receipt" goes automatically into that folder. Done.

[BMWCurves]

What everyone has said already falls in line with what I believe, but I'll take a stab at it myself anyways


1) First, a lot of us like to DIY - both to save money and because we like wrenching on our cars to make sure it's done right and because we just enjoy DIY'ing. So, how do you feel about the value of a car that's had extensive DIY work done versus one that's had lots of work done at an indy shop or at the stealer?

When I was looking for my ZHP, having maintenance records was pretty important. Records can give a good idea of what kind of life the car has had. I don't particularly care if the service is done at a stealership, indy, or by the owner, as long as it has been completed, is consistent, preventative, and done well. In my case not a lot can go wrong on a one-owner car that had less thank 50k miles and was serviced exclusively at the dealership, so there wasn't a whole lot of concern there. I know these cars will probably have been wrung out and abused a bit, that's what they were made to do. As long as there there is documentation for maintenance and it's verified and given a clean bill of health with a PPI and my own personal inspection, I see no major difference in value for a car that's been maintained by an indy/dealership vs. one that's been DIYed with care.


2) As a follow-up, assuming much of the work on a car was DIY, what constitutes legit service records? I've been keeping everything in an Excel spreadsheet with dates and mileage, but it occurred to me that it would be very easy to fabricate almost anything you wanted in an Excel spreadsheet. Obviously, receipts for the parts for stated work on my service log can corroborate the log, and the overall condition of my car should be make it clear that the car is well-maintained and cared-for, but it did make me wonder.

It's true that it's possible to doctor maintenance records but you can help reduce some of the risk with a PPI and your own personal inspection. I'm too lazy to digitize my records, even though I should. I have kept all receipts both in my email for parts ordered online and hard copies kept from packing slips, in-store purchases, and service. I keep a spreadsheet that covers date of maintenance, miles at time of maintenance, part numbers and costs, labor costs, and comments, all separated by my ownership and the previous owners. Regularly updating my project thread also helps since it contains more details and pictures of procedures. As an aside, is there a way to download a digital copy of a complete thread? Would be nice to have. Anyone buying a Mafia member's car would have a good view into the life of the car under their ownership which I think is very insightful.

[3ZHP]

Last year, I started putting everything together in this three ring binder. There are a few missing receipts that I should be able to get from the dealer to make the package complete. I also have most of the original published media that includes ZHP. Currently my original window sticker is framed and hanging in my office and the original owners manual package is still in my ZHP glove compartment.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/03/38843c841a5bfe6862e7262e5c579406.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/03/7e5429592b7b580676bcbcca5c7a60d9.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/03/fe40b4fe7c0bcc435c007bd03979e31a.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/03/e36d19a83c6c766e69d3f6a000726d86.jpg


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[BADCLOWN]

i keep every dang receipt for everything i purchase for my cars. even down to BOLTS and smaller items, couple dollar receipts. i don't organize it in a binder or anything, i just throw it in a folder that i keep at the house.

personally, i love having THAT kinda documentation. idk about keeping an excel spread sheet with gas fill ups too lol.

[BMWCurves]

@Guy

That's awesome you've collected all of that stuff! I have some of the digital items (3 Series Sedan brochure, BMW Performance accessories brochure, black and white scans of the ZHP brochure), but would love to have all of the ones you showed in a digital format. You know what you should do? You should make scans of those to share with everyone.

Yeah...you should do that.

Definitely.

Yes.

:begging

[san]

Last year, I started putting everything together in this three ring binder. There are a few missing receipts that I should be able to get from the dealer to make the package complete. I also have most of the original published media that includes ZHP. Currently my original window sticker is framed and hanging in my office and the original owners manual package is still in my ZHP glove compartment.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/03/38843c841a5bfe6862e7262e5c579406.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/03/7e5429592b7b580676bcbcca5c7a60d9.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/03/fe40b4fe7c0bcc435c007bd03979e31a.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/03/e36d19a83c6c766e69d3f6a000726d86.jpg


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That is awesome!!


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[3ZHP]

@Guy

That's awesome you've collected all of that stuff! I have some of the digital items (3 Series Sedan brochure, BMW Performance accessories brochure, black and white scans of the ZHP brochure), but would love to have all of the ones you showed in a digital format. You know what you should do? You should make scans of those to share with everyone.

Yeah...you should do that.

Definitely.

Yes.

:begging

I do have some of this stuff digitally. Mostly in pdf form that doesn't share well on the forum. I'll see what I find tomorrow and pm it to you. I did send some of the stuff to Marcus when the forum started and it is posted on the site, just don't remember where.


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[3ZHP]

Car and Driver article

http://m.caranddriver.com/reviews/bmw-330i-with-performance-package-road-test


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[ELCID86]

Car and Driver article

http://m.caranddriver.com/reviews/bmw-330i-with-performance-package-road-test


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Wrong thread? :dunno


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[danewilson77]

I do have some of this stuff digitally. Mostly in pdf form that doesn't share well on the forum. I'll see what I find tomorrow and pm it to you. I did send some of the stuff to Marcus when the forum started and it is posted on the site, just don't remember where.


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Wrong thread? :dunno


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I think he's trying to provide the article so one may print it as desired.

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[ELCID86]

I think he's trying to provide the article so one may print it as desired.

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Gotcha. I should read more.

Here is a link to the product brochure in my dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ht42mrn2ox6ajje/ZHP_Product_Brochure.pdf?dl=0
and BMW Performance Parts while I'm in there: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xf6zptp6mi1j8ll/BMW%20E46%20Performance%20Accessories.pdf?dl=0

[fredo]

The future owner of my ZHP will receive all these goodies. No, I'm not selling anytime soon. :biggrin

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