Winter Tire Discussion / Debate

[Karl Lazlo]

Well, may be a little late to the party as it is right after Thanksgiving and some parts of the country already have the white stuff, but worth a shot. BP and I had a late lunch and we got to talking about snow tires. The whats, whys and wheres, so to speak.

What are you folks running for winter? Give is some ideas of driving habits, impressions of your chosen snow tire and weather pattern in your geography, tire and wheel size would help, too.

For me, I went back to Blizzaks this season. Spent the past two on Connie EWC and was less than impressed. We will see how the WS80s do this year.

Car: 2006 ZHP Coupe
Tires: Blizzak WS-80
Size: 205/50-17
Habits: Chronic speeder with about 40k behind the wheel
Marginal snow accumulation - slushy mix with wet pack and some ice.

Impressions so far: Twitchy as hell on the dry. As expected. May go with a different offset or spacers to widen the rear track a bit. But, looking forward to the white stuff to test these out.

[ELCID86]

I run Blizzaks in the winter too. Have not put them on yet.

C&D just had a feature on winter tires: http://www.caranddriver.com/features/winter-tire-test-six-top-brands-tested-compared-feature-final-scoring-and-performance-data-page-3

[Johnmadd]

I have nitto's on my e30, it goes through the snow like a tank and I can't go anywhere with the Falken all seasons... just spin the rears.

[Johnmadd]

Dedicated winter tires are definitely worth it on any vehicle imo.

[Karl Lazlo]

I run Blizzaks in the winter too. Have not put them on yet.

I was a little late this season. Thankfully, it held off.


C&D just had a feature on winter tires: http://www.caranddriver.com/features/winter-tire-test-six-top-brands-tested-compared-feature-final-scoring-and-performance-data-page-3

I could have used this information a week ago! I was toying with the Nokian R2s. Been a fan of Hakks for a while. About the any loyalty I have had is on summer tires, as I seem to change my mind every other winter season. Now that I have three cars (smh in shame), I will likely put R2s on my other 330Ci next season.


Dedicated winter tires are definitely worth it on any vehicle imo.

Damn skippy! The only time my cars didn't wear dedicated snows is when I was too dumb to know any better and when I lived in climates where snow was barely a thought (Vegas, MS & Honolulu).

[az3579]

Car: 2005 330i ZHP Sedan, 6MT
Tires: Bridgestone Blizzak LM-32
Size: 225-45-17 all around

Habits: Very easy on throttle most of the time with shifts occurring at 2k or less, but enjoy the occasional blast up to redline on an onramp or a "spirited" overtake. Will drift any safe chance I get (no cars around whatsoever, parked or not) at low speed in 2nd gear. When there's snow on the ground, I'm very light on the throttle with very granular clutch control in order to gain traction, but will not hesitate to go 50-60 on the snow-packed highway provided nobody's around. When there's snow on the ground, traction control remains fully disabled at all times.

Typical conditions: Anywhere from a light dusting (maybe an inch) to 6-10 inches. Typical snowfall is around 4-6 inches per instance.

Impressions: Awesome stability and traction overall. Noise is low (I could barely tell I had them on when they were new). Noise did increase a tiny bit as they wore, but nothing near what other winter tires sound like. They are rated for 149mph, so I'm not limited when I feel like having a blast, though that rarely (if ever) happens when these are mounted. Grip is pretty awesome for a winter tire when it's dry out, and wet grip is amazing as well. Snow traction is great as well; I have never gotten stuck or had an issue with traction off the line. I could easily out-accelerate an SUV in the snow if it only has all seasons on. How do I know? I've done it. I have only driven on ice once with these mounted, and that was when I was driving on a highway that apparently wasn't salted enough. Cars were spun out/crashed along the side of the road and I wondered why... till I hit an icy patch. I started getting a little sideways at 55mph but was able to recover without too much drama, and was able to regain traction and keep it at a reduced speed. While it was an oh-shit moment, the tires did help keep me shiny-side up.

[NoVAphotog]

Car: 2005 330i ZHP Sedan, 6MT
Tires: Bridgestone Blizzak WS-80
Size: 225-45-17 all around
Habits: Granny shifting before 3k most times, occasional spirited jaunts if conditions allow. Not many with winter tires on in the dry as I don't see the point. Ran for one season (last year), extremely cold, good amount of snow in multiple driving outings. Absolutely ZERO issues with WS-80s and traction. Back end came out when I wanted it to, if I didn't try it would stay planted with one press of DSC button. Including up hills and around corners. Completely eliminated worry while driving around and getting caught in blizzard at ski resort (had to make return journey at night).
Typical conditions: Anywhere from a light dusting (maybe an inch) to 4-6+ inches.

Plan to remake this video with LSD and a little bit more production quality this winter...if it ever snows or gets cold here lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iLUAbDQ2E4

[3ZHP]

Car: 2003 ZHP Saloon
Tires: Blizzak WS-70 2011/2012
Size: 205/50-17
Tires: Michelin Pilot Sports, winters of 2006/2007, 2007/2008, 2009/2010, 2010/2011
Size: 205/50-17

Habits: I was born and raised in Buffalo, NY. Graduated from HS in 1977 (the year of the great buzzard) driving a snow plow during it. Moved into a 24hr towing & recovery service for the local police from 79 to 84. Always 2 wheel drive dual axle trucks. Used tire chains on the outside tire when the snow got over 4-5" and never missed a call. Along with that, I've never personally owned a front wheel drive. In 1986, relocated to Cleveland, OH and spent most Christmas's back in Buffalo. That included countless, heavy snow trips. So, yeh, I know snow.

First Bimmer was a 99 323I, that I purchased in 03/04. The car had all season Michelin's and after a snowy Thanksgiving trip to Kalamazoo. I learned how to use the different functions of the DCS. Throttle kill, wouldn't let me spin to get up my sisters driveway.

Purchased my ZHP Saturday 12/23/2006 and also purchased the winter wheels & tires they had from the PO. Tires were Michelin Pilot Sports and in good condition. These worked OK for me for the next few years. Snow in the Northern Ohio region is a mix of everything and accumulates up to eight inches or more. Never got stuck with the Michelin's but, never had the confidence to push it. Now, with the Blizzak's that lack of confidence nearly disappeared. Those tires were incredible in the snow and ice. Traction was absolutely outstanding. The tires would bite on ice, grip on snow, crawling out of ruts and running on top and the stopping power was also outstanding. I'm currently doing winter holiday commutes to northern OH in my Toyota Tacoma Double Cab 4X4 running BFG Trail T/As and can say. I would feel safer in my ZHP with the WS70 Blizzak's than I do in the 4 wheel drive Tacoma.

[slater]

Car: 2004 330i ZHP 6MT
Tires: Michelin X-Ice3
Size: 215/50-17
Habits: we get some crappy weather where i live. surrounded by lake ontario on 3 sides, it's basically an island, and it's not out of the ordinary to have a 12" drifts on the road i live in. i grew up in central VT, so i've had plenty of experience driving in any snowy condition. my wife leaves DSC + DTC on and has not had any problems. i leave the DSC + DTC on most of the time - it is a very impressive system for a 'one wheel peel' RWD car. i keep speeds and throttle application sane. when i'm alone in the car, DSC + DTC are often turned off and around here, it's easy to casually hang the rear end out. but you have to understand, there might be 10 cars that go by my house in a day, and often one is a plow. :)

Impressions so far: the X-Ice3's have been predictable and decent. they're not as aggressive as some other snow tires i've used (think old-school nokian hakka's), but are a nice balance for dry and snowy stuff - not twitchy, just stable and confidence-inspiring. really, you can't go wrong.

i just picked up a set of 8/32" blizzak WS-80s 225/45/17, on silver BMW steel wheels (the 17x7 ones), for a song. i might run those for a bit and see how they are, for comparison. plus, the steel wheels look cool. :)

[ryankokesh]

Exactly what Guy said... the right snow tires on a low, 10 year old, RWD car can provide more confidence than a 4wd truck with all-seasons.

Another anecdote... after my wife drove with snow tires for the first time, she has ever since basically refused to drive in the snow (even 1/4" or less) if I haven't put them on yet!

Car: 2004 330i ZHP Sedan, 6MT
Tires: Bridgestone Blizzak WS-80
Size: 205-50-17 all around
Notes: Getting the WS80s installed this Thursday. I don't drive the ZHP much in the winter, and when I do I don't drive it 'hard'. But I take it to work maybe once a week. That can include tons of ice, snow, sleet, ice, and some more ice depending on what the weather feels like doing. And I often leave before any of the roads are plowed, so there's that too. So I'm willing to sacrifice some dry handling to get the best snow/ice control possible.

I previously used General Altimax Arctics and had no complaints except, for maybe glare ice. They're not the most expensive winter tire, but I was very pleasantly surprised with them. Great in deeper snow (I've easily made my way through at least 3 inches of fresh powder... splitters = snow plows). A little more slippage than I'd like driving on solid ice (which I have, on the toll road, in the presence of large trucks), but the relatively harder compound provides very respectable handling and phenomenal wear. Actually, anyone who wants to buy them, let me know...still around 6-7/32nds left!

For those of you still shopping, the Sottozero 3 and Conti WinterContact Si are both great options as well.

If you haven't seen them before, TireRack has some interesting videos touting the benefits of dedicated winter tires. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/videoDisplay.jsp?ttid=206

[Hornung418]

Blizzak WS-80 for me. Nothing beats the traction on RWD German sports cars.

[BMWCurves]

Car: 1998 BMW 540i
Tires: Bridgestone Blizzak WS-15
Size: 215/55R16

Car: 2000 Volkswagen Jetta 2.0L
Tires: Firestone Winterforce (studded)
Size: 195/65R15

Car: 2007 Volvo S40 T5 AWD
Tires: Firestone Winterforce (studded)
Size: 205/55R16

Typical conditions: Maybe one to two days a year that has between a dusting and 1-2" of snow. Every three or four years there's a significant snow storm that accumulates between a couple of inches and a few feet of snow. Temperatures tend to hoover around freezing during the day and below freezing at night, making for slick conditions during the day.

Personal Driving Habits: In the BMW and the Volkswagen I tend to approach snow driving cautiously (both for safety and the cars aren't mine). Slow, deliberate motions with no sudden changes in speed. In the Volvo (and my old Audi), I am much more adventurous. I turn off as much of the stability and traction controls as I can and slide when it is safe (no cars around, lots of space). Plus, in Portland, the town tends to shut down and people stay inside until the snow blows over. So if you're out there, there's very few cars on the road and empty back roads can become your mini rally course if you use smart judgement.

Impressions (Note: I have not done much winter driving on these tires as snow is very intermittent and I am usually out of town when there is snow, and all of the tires are pretty old age-wise at this point, if not particularly worn): The Firestone Winterforce studded tires are great around town when there's snow and ice on the ground. There is a fair amount of tire noise on snowless roads thanks to the studs, but in the snow they're relatively quiet. They handle the snow and ice very well. We take the Volvo to the mountain for skiing and it has no trouble handling anything we encounter. Grip is definitely reduced in the dry compared to the regular A/S or Summer tires but that's not really the point of a dedicated winter tire. Damage to roads caused by the studs aside, I have had zero problems with the Firestone tires in either the Volkswagen or the Volvo. The Blizzak WS-15s are old but get the job done. My father isn't too impressed by them, but I find them to be perfectly suitable if you're careful and deliberate. If you've seen this famous video of drivers in Portland from a few years ago (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaksWCnHaDM), those are very steep streets. The 540i can climb them and hill start on them with little drama in the snow (that intersection is about five minutes from my house). I'm guessing that the Blizzak WS-80s are an improvement over the WS-15s, so I might try those.


I run Blizzaks in the winter too. Have not put them on yet.

C&D just had a feature on winter tires: http://www.caranddriver.com/features/winter-tire-test-six-top-brands-tested-compared-feature-final-scoring-and-performance-data-page-3

Interesting article, something to consider when I hopefully get a set of winter shoes.

[Karl Lazlo]

Habits: I was born and raised in Buffalo, NY. Graduated from HS in 1977 (the year of the great buzzard) driving a snow plow during it.

I was living in Oneonta at that time. Well, just outside. Still in grade school and remember all the snow. Don't remember any buzzards, though. :-)


I would feel safer in my ZHP with the WS70 Blizzak's than I do in the 4 wheel drive Tacoma.

I hear that.

I love talking cars with the, shall I say, uninitiated, and it amazes me how many are clueless to the utility of proper tires for the season.

But, overall, great narratives!

Blizzaks are well represented here.

[ELCID86]

Dedicated winter tires are definitely worth it on any vehicle imo.

+1


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[EoSNJ]

2006 Vert ZHP, Steptronic - new to me as of mid Oct, 2015
Blizzak LM-32 XL 225/45-17

This is actually the first time I've put dedicated winter tires on one of my BMWs. I've usually used another car/awd vehicle when there's snow on the ground. But the transfer case on my E53 is shot, and with that parked I need this car to be able to move in winter. And the ZHP had summer tires. We have a 2011 Outback too, but we try to balance commute miles between vehicles (120/day round trip!). My ZHP has Pilot Sport run-flats - I'd just had them balanced, along with control arms, bushings, and alignment and I got a pressure alert on my way to work. I checked the pressure and reset the system, but figured it was time to address my winter needs.

This was also the first time I've used TireRack, and I must say it was not such a great experience. I ordered LM-25's (RF's) and a set of rims for them to be mounted on. A few minutes after placing the order, a guy from TR called me to tell me he couldn't fulfill my order as placed. He insisted my car didn't have run flats - I assured him it did, and that it has no spare. Then he insisted he must either sell me TPMS sensors for ~$400 or change the order to non RF's. Copped an attitude with me that left a really bad impression.

So at the end of all this, he changed my order to the 32's, and added a mobility kit. And of course I verified afterwards that despite his insistence otherwise, he certainly could've sold me the tires as I ordered without TPMS sensors. And at a subsequent visit to my local dealer's service dept, they verified that my run-flats are correct for my ZHP, and that it uses the ABS sensor, not TPMS. Oh, and they really liked my ride - they don't see many of them and this one was particularly nice, clean, & solid.

Anyway, the tires are fine so far but haven't seen anything but rain. It's certainly a softer ride over all, and much quieter than the summer tires so far. Hopefully they'll get me thru a couple of seasons - my commute racks up miles fast!

[Dual]

I previously used General Altimax Arctics and had no complaints except, for maybe glare ice. They're not the most expensive winter tire, but I was very pleasantly surprised with them. Great in deeper snow (I've easily made my way through at least 3 inches of fresh powder... splitters = snow plows). A little more slippage than I'd like driving on solid ice (which I have, on the toll road, in the presence of large trucks), but the relatively harder compound provides very respectable handling and phenomenal wear.

I have been running Altimax for a couple seasons now and really love their performance. I did encounter a serious pitfall, though. The aggressive grooves at the corners of the tread can be a negative. I now have a deep dent right behind a wheelwell, where the tire picked up a rock and threw it at the car. LOUD bang, believe me.

My PDR guy couldn't do much at all with it.

31646

[ryankokesh]

I have been running Altimax for a couple seasons now and really love their performance. I did encounter a serious pitfall, though. The aggressive grooves at the corners of the tread can be a negative. I now have a deep dent right behind a wheelwell, where the tire picked up a rock and threw it at the car. LOUD bang, believe me.

My PDR guy couldn't do much at all with it.


Bummer... sorry to hear that :/

[John in VA]

The aggressive grooves at the corners of the tread can be a negative. I now have a deep dent right behind a wheelwell, where the tire picked up a rock and threw it at the car. LOUD bang, believe me. My PDR guy couldn't do much at all with it.
Would mud flaps help?

[ryankokesh]

Would mud flaps help?

Hah... I just put them on my Outback a week ago for that very reason!

[Dual]

Hmmm...

[ryankokesh]

https://www.tirerack.com/mud_flaps/results.jsp?autoMake=BMW&autoModel=330i+Sedan&autoYear=2004&autoModClar=Performance+Package