What do you do when.... [Archive] - BMW E46 330 ZHP For Sale Forum

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94jedi

11-09-2015, 02:02 PM

NoVAphotog

11-09-2015, 02:14 PM

What do you guys do when the allure of a newer car calls you? Let me be clear - I love my my ZHP. Best car I've owned...but it's getting old. I took it in today for the passenger side airbag recall and the allure of the new models was STRONG. Having said that, I probably wouldn't go out and buy a new car, but even the E90/92 just look and feel so much newer (there were a few there getting serviced). The e46 is so classic and timeless to me, but honestly, it's getting long in the tooth. So I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way from time to time. What do you guys do when that "boredom" sets in? I'm planning on giving her a full detail and slapping on some mods I've got laying around. Maybe some more maintenance too.

Thoughts?
I drive her on some twisties...I price out a supercharger...I reflect on the great times I've had with members of this forum...i reflect on the many compliments, instagram and spotted posts I've gotten and realize no one would give a shit about a "just another" e90 or f30 328i/335i in Northern VA.

The zhp is special to those that know what it is and the conversations I've had with those people are what make me love it more and more. Plus the community on e90post and other forums for any other car out there are no where even remotely close to the Mafia.

Vas

11-09-2015, 02:21 PM

What do you guys do when the allure of a newer car calls you? Let me be clear - I love my my ZHP. Best car I've owned...but it's getting old. I took it in today for the passenger side airbag recall and the allure of the new models was STRONG. Having said that, I probably wouldn't go out and buy a new car, but even the E90/92 just look and feel so much newer (there were a few there getting serviced). The e46 is so classic and timeless to me, but honestly, it's getting long in the tooth. So I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way from time to time. What do you guys do when that "boredom" sets in? I'm planning on giving her a full detail and slapping on some mods I've got laying around. Maybe some more maintenance too.

Thoughts?

Look for a 135is. Then remember about how much car payment suck. Get into the zhp and drive home knowing its fairly cheap to own and maintain. Then make a list of things to fix and repair since having it just sit around is boring.

KevinC

11-09-2015, 02:33 PM

Sit down with the F&I guy and go over some financing numbers on a new 3. Throw in a bunch of options. You can buy a new condo in many places for what it will cost!

I feel your pain. I'd really like to lease a new 340i. I miss having the modern conveniences of these cars vs what I have. The sound system in my M5 for instance, despite even having the "M-audio" $900 option, is HORRENDOUS. It makes the lousy H/K system in the ZHP sound like Carnegie Hall. And I'm not throwing money at either sound system, my days of throwing cash at car stereos are well behind me. But I'd sure love to have the new H/K system in the 340i. It's tits

Then I look at the cost, and I'm pretty happy with what I have.

az3579

11-09-2015, 03:19 PM

hcbeck2689

11-09-2015, 03:54 PM

This isn't a problem for me since I am too broke to do all the preventative maintenance I want to do.
But...I would go for a nice e46 m3 any day over the newer models. A low mileage EAG m3 will still cost less than a new 3 series. Easy choice for me

-Holden

theothersawyer

11-09-2015, 04:03 PM

Remember that I'm broke!

94jedi

11-09-2015, 05:36 PM

I hear you guys on the money thing. I'd love a new car but it's just not worth it. I bought a 2007 Mazdaspeed3, owned it for 2 years and 19k miles and lost $10k on it. The new M235's are nice, as is the 4 series "ZHP" but the cost is outrageous. No, I hear you guys. It's just that sometimes, you get in your buddy's nice new 2014 Infiniti and think about how awesome a new BMW would be....ugh.

NoVAphotog

11-09-2015, 06:39 PM

you get in your buddy's nice new 2014 Infiniti and think about how awesome a new BMW would be....ugh.

Yeah, that same buddy (in my case friend who bought a 2015 Q50S AWD) who calls you up a year a or so later and tells you in traded it in because of electronic gremlins and spends an hour listing off all the various failures and warranty repairs on everything from the "key sensor and ignition" to the "radio buttons not working on the LCD" to the digital speedometer and tach malfunctioning WHILE the car is moving and resetting as if he started the car, etc, etc, etc.

Meanwhile I'm laughing because I get in and my ZHP starts and buttons work. If something breaks it'll most likely be something I can fix myself following one of the HUNDREDS of DIYs available or with help from the forum. I'm sorry but new cars just aren't worth it to me for more ways than one. Too many things to go wrong or get hacked with the myriad of electronics on them. That said, I would like a GT350...

slater

11-09-2015, 06:58 PM

Look for a 135is. Then remember about how much car payment suck. Get into the zhp and drive home knowing its fairly cheap to own and maintain. Then make a list of things to fix and repair since having it just sit around is boring.

amen to that, brother!

I feel your pain. I'd really like to lease a new 340i. I miss having the modern conveniences of these cars vs what I have. The sound system in my M5 for instance, despite even having the "M-audio" $900 option, is HORRENDOUS.

you don't need a radio in an E39 M5... :) just remove mufflers, and drop the hammer.

I'm going through this so hard right now. I really want a F30 328 LCI... It's just so much damn money. The problem is that I'm still trying to convince myself to work the numbers to make it work...

2 words for you, BP: electronic steering.

3 more: four cylinder turbo.

Yeah, that same buddy (in my case friend who bought a 2015 Q50S AWD) who calls you up a year a or so later and tells you in traded it in because of electronic gremlins and spends an hour listing off all the various failures and warranty repairs on everything from the "key sensor and ignition" to the "radio buttons not working on the LCD" to the digital speedometer and tach malfunctioning WHILE the car is moving and resetting as if he started the car, etc, etc, etc.

Meanwhile I'm laughing because I get in and my ZHP starts and buttons work. If something breaks it'll most likely be something I can fix myself following one of the HUNDREDS of DIYs available or with help from the forum. I'm sorry but new cars just aren't worth it to me for more ways than one. Too many things to go wrong or get hacked with the myriad of electronics on them. That said, I would like a GT350...

yep, exactly daniel! too much to go wrong! we are driving the last of the best.

re: the GT350 - um, yeah! i'd be happy with just a 5.0 GT coupe with the recaro seats and fancy diff! but... car payments!

oldzilla

11-09-2015, 07:07 PM

I understand what you feel I love my ZHP, but sometimes want more. I test drove an F Type coupe and vert, then a 911 4s, all three great cars to drive. I find myself crunching the numbers, looking at deprecation values etc making those plans to replace my ZHP. All that changes when I drive her, yes the stereo is not top notch, and no push button start or 330 plus horsepower. Yes the seats can be better and my vert has rattles and squeaks, 4K power dip and other assorted BMW oddities. She still makes me smile when I take on the twisties, people still compliment her and to be blunt she is still my dream car.

BCS_ZHP

11-09-2015, 07:10 PM

If something breaks it'll most likely be something I can fix myself following one of the HUNDREDS of DIYs available or with help from the forum. I'm sorry but new cars just aren't worth it to me for more ways than one.

Dan, I'd probably say the same exact same thing if I was still single. But different strokes for different folks, with a mechanically-disinterested wife who shuttles my soccer protege daughter to tourneys several hundred miles away every other weekend, dependability and factory warranty coverage prevailed, thus the new F15 for her.

az3579

11-09-2015, 07:23 PM

2 words for you, BP: electronic steering.

2 words for you too: so what???

Everyone keeps making a huge stink about nothing. I have no problem feeling what I need to feel while driving with EPS. I am all for a system that doesn't use mechanical pullies, which rob the engine of power. I'm all for being able to turn the wheel with a pinky when I want to park, but with the ability to add weight at the touch of a button for when I want better control. Maybe one day people will realize that it's better in almost every way.

3 more: four cylinder turbo.
Which makes more power and is far more fuel efficient than our six-cylinder hogs.

Seriously, this need not turn into yet another "new cars suck" thread.

NoVAphotog

11-09-2015, 07:53 PM

BMWCurves

11-09-2015, 10:55 PM

Pretty much stole the words out of my mouth, Daniel.

Even though I just got my car about 8 months ago and would not sell it for anything under $30k right now, I still sometimes find myself yearning for features found on newer cars. I was driving back from Vancouver, BC today in my buddy's 2010 VW Passat CC and I really appreciated the instrument cluster's readout with current speed, indicated cruise control speed, etc. I liked the BlueTooth system to call people. I liked the touch screen in the center console. But after I got out of his car and back into my car I realized that I don't need to know my indicated cruise control speed because I can just look at the odometer, I make it a conscious decision not to talk on the phone while I'm in the car already, and the touch screen is less tactile and provides little more utility than the buttons I have. They're all nice features, but nothing more than that for me. With a little effort and money, I can have most of those features in my car if I really wanted them.

But I will always fiddle with the "Build Your Own" feature on manufacturers' websites. A man can dream, can't he? *adds Carbon Ceramic Brakes to his GT4 build*

ecrabb

11-09-2015, 11:10 PM

I'll admit the ZHP feels a little dated at times - especially for a daily driver. If I had to drive it every single day, to and fro, in crappy weather, I might not like the ZHP as much as I do. So, I can see how somebody might want a newer car. That said, I have an '04 ZHP, and our two daily drivers are an '07 H3 and an '07 X3. Every time I look at newer stuff, I love some things about it (though I couldn't give two shits about push-button start to be honest) but the money just makes my head spin.

Yeah, I'd love a nice clean used '13 GLK for the wife and me to use as our daily. It's "only" about $25k for one with fairly low miles. Then I think about the $10k between my wife's X3 and the GLK and I think about what I could do with that $10k or what that $10k will do invested in the next 20 years between now and retirement. That $20k is really $40k for me in investment terms. Do the same math with a $45k car - like the poor sap that bought the GLK brand new - and it really makes you think.

That's not to say everybody should drive what I drive. If you have your retirement all covered, you're comfortable with your financial situation, you live where you want to live, and you're not living beyond your means, then a guy should drive whatever the hell he wants. But, for me... I'll probably always be driving 5-10 year old cars. I just don't see the value in blowing $7000, $8000, even $10,000/year to own a new luxury car. Don't get me wrong... An F82 M4 gives me total wood... Hell, an M235 is even a damn sweet car I'd love to have... But, it's just too damn much money to have tied up in a car. In eight years, I'll have a daughter to put through college, and two years later, my son will start. THAT will be expensive.

Cheers,
SC

ecrabb

11-09-2015, 11:13 PM

Oh, and I actually don't really care that much for all the bells and whistles like pushbutton start, touch screens, digital this and electronic that. Meh. Whatever. It's all doodads, and most of "infotainment" stuff is pretty lame compared to your average Kindle Fire or iPad mini. Just give me a clean aux input for my phone, a decent stereo, good brakes and steering, and RELIABILITY, and I'm happy.

SC

slater

11-10-2015, 05:03 AM

Dan, I'd probably say the same exact same thing if I was still single. But different strokes for different folks, with a mechanically-disinterested wife who shuttles my soccer protege daughter to tourneys several hundred miles away every other weekend, dependability and factory warranty coverage prevailed, thus the new F15 for her.

bruce, i can appreciate that. 100%. happy wife, happy life.

2 words for you too: so what???

Everyone keeps making a huge stink about nothing. I have no problem feeling what I need to feel while driving with EPS. I am all for a system that doesn't use mechanical pullies, which rob the engine of power. I'm all for being able to turn the wheel with a pinky when I want to park, but with the ability to add weight at the touch of a button for when I want better control. Maybe one day people will realize that it's better in almost every way.

LOL. the last EPS car i drove felt so disconnected, it was like i was driving a video game. clearly i'm picky... ;)

Which makes more power and is far more fuel efficient than our six-cylinder hogs.

Seriously, this need not turn into yet another "new cars suck" thread.

dude, new cars suck! :chainsaw

haha.... i'm not saying anything like that. do i like the new cayman GT4? (or anything new with the porsche crest) um, heck yeah! lots of old cars suck, too.

the turbo comment was mostly personal, for me. i just don't like turbo cars, it doesn't matter when they were manufactured. i've owned a bunch.

Oh, and I actually don't really care that much for all the bells and whistles like pushbutton start, touch screens, digital this and electronic that. Meh. Whatever. It's all doodads, and most of "infotainment" stuff is pretty lame compared to your average Kindle Fire or iPad mini. Just give me a clean aux input for my phone, a decent stereo, good brakes and steering, and RELIABILITY, and I'm happy.

SC

agreed. man, i just feel like, how much do we really need? it's just more stuff to break - i'm really curious to see how these new cars hold up after 10 years of use.

danewilson77

11-10-2015, 05:12 AM

oclvframe

11-10-2015, 05:26 AM

Regarding bells and whistles: I have a range of vehicles...my trusty 14year old Subaru Outback which had modest bells and stuff for 01 (at least as compared to some of the stuff offered by other manufacturers at the time)...my also trusty 12 year old Jeep Rubicon...with merely one bell and whistle (self dimming rear view mirror and actual lockable compartment for the area behind the back seat)...my 07 Odyssey with a push-button rear lift gate...my 07 530XiT with iDrive....and last my ZHP vert (which now has a relatively new whistle: Dynavin N6). All have an assortment of niceties...there are things like automatic trip timers, outside temp display, memory seat positions, etc that each may have one or two or some of but others some or none. I often think, yeah, a new car would have this laundry list of cool things on it but as my fleet sits, they're all paid for, and all charming in their own way. Each vehicle serves its purpose in my little fleet...and each could easily be trumped by a new/better version. But in the end, I appreciate each and every one of them for what they are and what I have been through with them.

I agree with ecrabb....at a minimum, give me good audio and an input ability....that's the only real bell/whistle that can make a drive that much more memorable.

-r

NYRhockey

11-10-2015, 06:25 AM

i've only had my zhp since March after years of drooling over E46s so i'm still in the honeymoon, look-back-at-her-after-you've-parked-and-are-walking-away stage so i have no desire for a new car and the gigantic car payment that comes with it, plus there are a lot of things i still need to do/fix on the zhp. Yes, i go on bmwusa.com and build a new M3 and dream about it, but then i look at the price and proceed to click on the red X on the top right.

The one car i do want in the next few years will be a Wrangler, but that's IN ADDITION to the zhp :)

BCS_ZHP

11-10-2015, 08:10 AM

She needs a Hyundai

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Dane, remember I'm 50% Asian, she said that's enough Asian content in her life, lol.

Dr Dynamite

11-10-2015, 01:41 PM

It better be a 4 series.... haha just kidding.

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SoCalZman

11-10-2015, 03:42 PM

I dunno. Im still plenty happy with my ZHP. Maybe its that Ive had it less than 5 years? Ive driven a number of newer cars and I feel like the ZHP still holds it own against them in comfort, sophistication, looks, and feature set (I added OEM Bluetooth, seat heaters, alarm, aftermarket bimmian mount for Nav and a bluetooth streaming dongle for music). And my friends drive luxury cars for the most part. Ive also been to a few BMW driving events in which I autocrossed brand new versions of the 328 and 228 and got back in my car feeling like it was just as good as those cars. Not worth having a car payment for. *shrug*

brettbimmer

11-10-2015, 07:13 PM

I'm going through this so hard right now. I really want a F30 328 LCI... It's just so much damn money. The problem is that I'm still trying to convince myself to work the numbers to make it work...

sent from my Droid Turbo

IR/NB twin...don't think we can be friends anymore if you show up in an F30. :-P

I hear you guys on the money thing. I'd love a new car but it's just not worth it. I bought a 2007 Mazdaspeed3, owned it for 2 years and 19k miles and lost $10k on it. The new M235's are nice, as is the 4 series "ZHP" but the cost is outrageous. No, I hear you guys. It's just that sometimes, you get in your buddy's nice new 2014 Infiniti and think about how awesome a new BMW would be....ugh.

And then you compare the specs on the M235 (hp aside) to those on the ZHP...and realize that the dimensions are basically the same between the two cars...and one is a lot less $!

2 words for you too: so what???

Everyone keeps making a huge stink about nothing. I have no problem feeling what I need to feel while driving with EPS. I am all for a system that doesn't use mechanical pullies, which rob the engine of power. I'm all for being able to turn the wheel with a pinky when I want to park, but with the ability to add weight at the touch of a button for when I want better control. Maybe one day people will realize that it's better in almost every way.

[/COLOR]
Which makes more power and is far more fuel efficient than our six-cylinder hogs.

Seriously, this need not turn into yet another "new cars suck" thread.

F30 = Direct Injection, no? Sounds like a party I can miss. In the meantime I'll be sitting in the corner with my VANOS rebuild. :santa1

KevinC

11-10-2015, 07:19 PM

I just stormed around the area in my "other" car. I currently feel NO need for anything more modern. Funny, an E39 M5 can do that.

I do have what I consider to be essentials in the ZHP. It has factory Bluetooth with the non-nav radio. A bitch to try to dial out, but works fine for answering calls. Funny, it's not mentioned anywhere on the sticker - I assume it's part of the telematics that came with the Premium package in '05? In my M5, I have no Bluetooth, so I have a Moto doo-hingus on my visor that gets the job done. Kinda.

As for a ZHP feeling dated as a daily driver - depending on what you're referring to, if it's the overall feeling of "freshness" in the driving experience, I would counter that a ZHP can feel BETTER than most new cars, just by being sure all the essential components - FCABs/RTABs, shocks, alignment, etc - are kept up to snuff.

Simmsled

11-11-2015, 06:27 PM

I had a new 2 door GTI in 2009. Great car, dealer service sucked. Kids arrived... sold for fam-car.

Certified Lexus GS 3 years later... had about every bell and whistle known to man.
So buttery smooth, jet-like smooth power delivery.
...but no soul.

Had a new F30 328i (to my spec) on order... was going to do Performance Delivery...
Then a ZHP stole my heart in the foothills of Kentucky. Cancelled the order.
Like Goldilocks and her porridge... the ZHP was juuust right.

I can do just about anything on cars, and I have realized that owning a car with a VAST DIY base and a great community is an incredible thing.
Now, instead of having $ tied up in a dive-bomb depreciating asset... I go on more trips with my family. I invest more in the kids college funds.
Hell, I even bought another ZHP.

For me, the ZHP is about as perfect as you get. I just wish we would have met sooner. :-)

SwiftyM3

11-12-2015, 06:47 AM

I personally can't imagine buying a new car for numerous reasons. The main ones being that hardly any manual transmission cars are available without ordering them. I don't want the payment, and I don't want to wait for delivery and risk being disappointed. I currently have 4 BMW's and a long list of models I still want. 08 M3 weekend/track car, 05 X3 fiance's daily for the dog/winter/trips, 03 ZHP sedan as my daily, 95 325is project track car replacement.

I plan on acquiring over the next few years what I consider my remaining BMW must haves.

Z3 (gotta have at least 1 vert)
E30 (duh, this is on everyone's list I assume)
E39 M5 (almost pulled trigger recently, still a bit too pricey)
E46 Wagon or E91 Wagon (Euro, diesel, 6spd.. one can dream)

I'm not an options guy, I could give two shits about blue tooth because every time I drive, I only need a clutch pedal and music. I can even go without the music half the time. I really just enjoy the ride. I work at a BMW dealer, the new cars are nice to look at. The quality of materials, electronic's, design, lighting are all great, but the experience vs. money value isn't there for me.. not even close. I'd rather drive a couple thousand dollar car that I view as unique and my own, that I've put my personal touches on.

I can't imagine the feeling of having a $500+ car payment and pulling up to a light next to one of the other bazillion 3 series out there with the same color, wheels, interior, payment. Bleh, i'd rather ride a bike to work.

Be happy with what you have is my advice. It's a rare quality these days (Wow I sound old) to actually appreciate what you have and to be unique. In a world full of cookie cutter thoughtless purchases, I feel obligated to carry the torch on car culture as do other enthusiasts it seems.

iya_e46

11-12-2015, 10:51 AM

coming from a guy that had 2 E46's before my Alpine sedan definitely crossed my mind many times, but I still ended up getting my 3rd E46 in 2012 - my reason? being practical, timeless, last of the true 3 series, very easy to maintain, no car payments, and under the radar unless you're a true 46 lover.. the appeal of getting a new car will always be there but for me personally it can wait.

Vas

11-12-2015, 07:39 PM

Be happy with what you got. Words of wisdom right there.

L0veZHP

11-12-2015, 10:06 PM

Sometimes I get tired of my ZHP too, but I always find myself looking at it after I park it. I've had my ZHP for 5 years now and it's still a blast to drive and the mod/maintenance list seems to never end.

To update the car a little you should really invest into a new HU Unit. I have an Advin system, it's really good! I feel like it brought a lot of pleasure back into driving my car after 5 years. It also looks so beautiful and feels so modern. I also went to get 20% tints all around my car which makes the Advin system and makes me feel more exclusive, and protects my leather. With all that said I also bought white LED bulbs for my interior, a new M leather steering wheel and BMW Performance Pedals, M dead pedal.. etc etc the car just feels so updated and nice and I receive compliments all the time! Yeah the newer F series interior are beautiful in Coral Red, but my ZHPs interior is just such a pleasure to be in. Its like an office or a small get away from everything once your inside.

The ZHP is also "special" never forget that! you'r ZHP is more rare than an E46 M3! Whenever I pull up around a BMW garage I always get love from everyone at the shop and questions about the car! People always ask me if I had the car painted Imola Red. Clear lights all around is definitely the best way to go! That also brings your car back to life a little! and makes it look more updated. Also nice White LED turn signals and Auora Angel eyes also update the look so much on these cars!

As far as maintenance goes you should really just do everything to preserve throttle response! and you should invest in a nice exhaust. I have a Full-UUC TS3 Exhaust and its worth every penny! So deep and nice! no rasp at all. Also remember that ZHP exhaust notes sound "better" than an E46 M3 exhaust notes because its only one muffler and no rasp. So its nice not sounding like a Honda sometimes.

Invest in some M3 Mirrors for the ZHP! updates the look so much and just looks beautiful!

I'm basically saying ZHPs are just something really nice! You should keep your ZHP and just update it once in a while. Get BBS rims one year, get M3 mirrors the next, wrap it the next! lol Keep your ZHP its an awesome car. Keep it well maintained. Just update stuff once in a while so you don't get bored. The older these cars get the better they look when kept clean and the more compliments you get. The other day I was at H20i and there was a F series with BBS Rims dropped and super clean.. It was nice and everything but I felt like anyone can keep a 2016 car looking clean! its freaking brand new! now my ZHP is 11 years old and I can make it look as clean as a brand new car... Thats amazing and takes time and passion to keep up. Plus the ZHP is paid off. cheaper insurance. can't go bad with a ZHP.

I'm also from NYC and everyone that has "status" drive a BMW or Mercedes Benz. I live in Harlem and all the drug dealers and people in the area have all the latest BMW and Mercedes Benz and they always show me love when they see me driving around in a RED BMW! even though its a 3 series they always compliment it. I bet if it was a Honda Accord, they wouldn't even say Hi to me. I also noticed when I'm driving downtown, every freaking person has a leased 328i. Now I say leased because I don't believe they own it. I'm pretty sure they like to update their cars every 3 years to the next latest and lowest 3 series model. Now with that said they all just stare at my shiny Imola Red ZHP! like come on! I'm not just another 3 series in New York! I'm not just another BMW in New York! I feel proud knowing that my car gets a thumbs up from other enthusiast and doesn't look like I just bought the latest BMW and called it a day.

I've thought about it thousands of times, of updating my ZHP. Main choices were E46 Convertible M3, Honda S2000, or Most likely a E93 M3 because of that NA V8, convertible and high revving! but I just feel like I'll be dumping my money away and its just not worth dumping my hard earned money when I have something so beautiful standing in front of me. The ZHP is my high school sweet heart, that understands me and takes care of me everyday. And that e93 M3 is that expensive, hot girl from a foreign country, that is amazing in bed but I can't really deal with everyday or maintain I guess. lol You pick which state in your life your in. If you want to marry your high school sweet heart or do you want to marry the foreign girl?

3ZHP

11-13-2015, 02:17 AM

Starting to feel that way about mine. It's been over 9 years since I first test drove it and the day before Christmas Eve will be 9 years of ownership. The car was a daily driver for over 6 years, driven in the rain & snow, on the track, Xcross, showed. I've personally driven the car for over 115K miles. The car is current on all maintenance needs and is still driven on an as wanted need. The car has traveled to or through eight states and resided in two. Current roads are probably some of the best in the country and that in itself makes the thought, even more difficult.

My current DD is a Tacoma TRD Off Road double cab that has only a few creature comforts and a lot of Off Road and towing capabilities. The wife is in a F30 328i that replaced an 06 330 CIc. We both miss the vert even though it was defiantly not a ZHP. Just did an 1,800 mile road trip in the F30 last week and it didn't do anything special for me.

So, yes I'm starting to get board but, were do I go from here. Sell it and get a Pcar or sell all of them and go for something more exotic. Or do I just keep it around for some fun rides in the back hills and mountains?

One thing I have learned over the years, is that no matter how perfect my detail is, I probably won't bring home many car show trophies with my grocery getter.

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