The infamous Power DiP!

[Dr Dynamite]

From what I have read on the forums, my 3k-4k power dip is from the lovely Vanos system. I'm on a 2 week vacation and I have the time to do the job but where do I start?
[emoji25]

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[BADCLOWN]

Could be vanish needing a refresh (get a besian vanos refresh kit), the learning out ALL adaptations, or a DME update.


Or a combination of 2 or all of them.

[danewilson77]

From what I have read on the forums, my 3k-4k power dip is from the lovely Vanos system. I'm on a 2 week vacation and I have the time to do the job but where do I start?
[emoji25]

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No.

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[ELCID86]

How many miles do you have? Vanos may help with torque, etc. but not dip. Try unplugging the DISA electrical connection and see if that makes a difference.


Thumbs, iPhone, TaT.

[ryankokesh]

Should make an infomercial...

"Dr. Vanos, or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Dip"

I think you just have to deal.

[Dr Dynamite]

Should make an infomercial...

"Dr. Vanos, or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Dip"

I think you just have to deal.
Here's the spin, it kind of reminds me of V-Tech! It's sluggish from 3k to 4.9k then at 5k [emoji592] [emoji100] [emoji100] [emoji100] haha

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[ryankokesh]

Here's the spin, it kind of reminds me of V-Tech! It's sluggish from 3k to 4.9k then at 5k [emoji592] [emoji100] [emoji100] [emoji100] haha

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ZHP dip just kicked in yo!


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[Dr Dynamite]

How many miles do you have? Vanos may help with torque, etc. but not dip. Try unplugging the DISA electrical connection and see if that makes a difference.


Thumbs, iPhone, TaT.
I have put almost 50k miles since I've owned the car. I love every mile I've put on her [emoji41] it is now at 269k

I'm going to do this right now haha. Hopefully this cures my baby.

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[Dr Dynamite]

Could be vanish needing a refresh (get a besian vanos refresh kit), the learning out ALL adaptations, or a DME update.


Or a combination of 2 or all of them.
Time for some tinkering, do I need the special 17mm modified socket? It's in the besian product list?

Could be vanish needing a refresh (get a besian vanos refresh kit), the learning out ALL adaptations, or a DME update.


Or a combination of 2 or all of them.


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[Dr Dynamite]

No.

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Boss man Dane, no?? This "no"has alot of meaning behind it. How so my friend

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[danewilson77]

It's not the vanos.

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[ryankokesh]

It's not the vanos.

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To clear this up, there is no known permanent cure, correct?

I remember you, Dane, spoke at length to that really smart guy about this. But I can't remember who it was or what was determined.

[KevinC]

I've never completely cured the dip. Bought my car 3.5 years ago, was already well-read on the topic, and attempted to address it right away, as well as just do a bunch of pre-emptive maintenance. Replaced VANOS with rebuilt unit from Dr Vanos, replaced DISA with "DISA Gold" from GAS, had DME flashed, cleared adaptations, etc. In the last 6 months I also "Sharked" it with Conforti's Shark Injector firmware. That helped overall drivability more than anything else. But it still didn't cure the 4k dip. It's better than it was originally at the point, and the car runs better than ever. But that flaw will probably be forever present, absent disconnecting the DISA, which I don't really want to do as some low-end grunt is sacrificed.

[rkneeshaw]

I cured it by installing the twin screw supercharger kit that doesn't have a DISA valve :)

[ELCID86]

I cured it by installing the twin screw supercharger kit that doesn't have a DISA valve :)

Well there is that.


Thumbs, iPhone, TaT.

[KevinC]

And now you have the "4k surge" no doubt. Wooooosh!

[Dr Dynamite]

I ordered the fluoroscilicone Disa valve gasket and I installed it, I pushed the car to high rpms and no more 4k dip.... it runs so much better :)



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[BADCLOWN]

I'm going to have my DME reflashed down in Louisville and see if that does it. Had that done on my first ZHP and it went away.

[ryankokesh]

I ordered the fluoroscilicone Disa valve gasket and I installed it, I pushed the car to high rpms and no more 4k dip.... it runs so much better :)



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How long have you had that? In my experience, the dip goes away every time the adaptations are reset. Which I'm guessing removing the DISA might do. That'd be great if it's permanent, though.

[ELCID86]

I ordered the fluoroscilicone Disa valve gasket and I installed it, I pushed the car to high rpms and no more 4k dip.... it runs so much better :)



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What is their witchcraft you speak of? Fluoro what??


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - anonymous

[Dr Dynamite]

How long have you had that? In my experience, the dip goes away every time the adaptations are reset. Which I'm guessing removing the DISA might do. That'd be great if it's permanent, though.
How long have i had the 4k dip?

I bought the car at 229k and I did the G.A.S disa rebuild except for the gasket. I can't remember when the dip started but I have had it for a while now, Saturday at 275k miles I changed the water pump, expansion tank hose, oil and the disa gasket. I had to scrap off the old orange gasket and replace it with the nice baby blue fluoroscilicone gasket, it was alot thicker than the original one. 11$ fix and the disa should hold up alot better with the "better" parts. At least I think haha

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[Dr Dynamite]

What is their witchcraft you speak of? Fluoro what??


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - anonymous
25103

https://www.germanautosolutions.com/bmw_solutions/disa_products/m54_m52tu/m54_disa_o_rings/product_m54_disa_o_rings.php


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[BMWCurves]

Does the G.A.S. rebuild kit not come with a good o-ring?

[ZacharyMikel]

Does anyone know how Dinan handles things if you have their tune on your DME, and you decide to have a dealer update it? I really need to call them and ask.


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[D1ESEL]

I need to chase this issues as well. I might just start with the gasket and go from there.

If I go to the dealer and ask for a DME update are they going to look at me like I have 3 eyes?

Thanks guys!

[terraphantm]

For whatever it's worth, my DME has evidence of being sent to NJ in the past, and it came with software 7561544. Doesn't seem to be a software version that's in the "normal" upgrade chain for any ZHP, so perhaps this one improves the 4k RPM dip. Can't say I really feel it on this car.

[Dr Dynamite]

Does the G.A.S. rebuild kit not come with a good o-ring?
It does... when I rebuilt the disa I ran out of sun light so I never replaced the gasket it came with

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[Dr Dynamite]

I need to chase this issues as well. I might just start with the gasket and go from there.

If I go to the dealer and ask for a DME update are they going to look at me like I have 3 eyes?

Thanks guys!
U live in socal?

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[BADCLOWN]

If you tell the dealer you need a DME software update they won't look at you weird, all you're asking is for a reflash of our ECU. I don't have it done at the dealer because it was more expensive for me a few years ago. I went to a BMW repair facility in Louisville and they did the work.

[fw_fw]

I've been reading this and other threads with respect to low end power, and if there is one thing that I'm a just little disappointed in on my car is the low end grunt. From about 3.5-4K to redline it is almost as if a turbo or (gasp) VTEC kicks in, it just doesn't pull as hard as I feel it should in the lower RPM ranges. Don't have another ZHP to compare it to, but my S52 M Roadster I had pulled hard from all ranges, and I had always heard that the M54 in ZHP guise compared very favorable in power and revability to the S52. Reading this thread (and others) and with everything else seeming fine on the car I'm this close to pulling the trigger on a GAS DISA kit....everyone agree??

[D1ESEL]

U live in socal?

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No. MN

[Sockethead]

Does anyone know how Dinan handles things if you have their tune on your DME, and you decide to have a dealer update it? I really need to call them and ask.


You need to remove the tune before having the DME updated. Once its updated, the Dinan tune can be reinstalled. The Dinan tune has to be done by an authorized Dinan dealer. The tune is tied to the VIN of the car. The dealer that installed my stage 3 tune also updated the DME to the latest version at the time. Hopefully the Dinan dealer you take it to will be able to do the same thing, avoiding the cost of taking it to the dealer.


For whatever it's worth, my DME has evidence of being sent to NJ in the past, and it came with software 7561544. Doesn't seem to be a software version that's in the "normal" upgrade chain for any ZHP, so perhaps this one improves the 4k RPM dip. Can't say I really feel it on this car.

My DME was sent to NJ as well after the dealer hosed it while trying to do the 4k dip update. They had to replace the DME and code it. There was a time when all DMEs had to be sent to NJ but eventually, BMWNA let the dealers do it.

I haven't read through this whole thread but one of the things that affects low end is the VANOS seals. if they are shot, you loose some low end torque. I've done all three (VANOS, DISA and DME) It took all them to get my car back to normal

[terraphantm]

My DME was sent to NJ as well after the dealer hosed it while trying to do the 4k dip update. They had to replace the DME and code it. There was a time when all DMEs had to be sent to NJ but eventually, BMWNA let the dealers do it.

Okay, but the software version used for the 4K flash was unknown. Everyone, myself included, assumed that simply having the latest software did the trick. 7561544 seems to be a software version tailored to the issue, and I think it's worth trying for anyone who doesn't have it on their DME.

[san]

If you tell the dealer you need a DME software update they won't look at you weird, all you're asking is for a reflash of our ECU. I don't have it done at the dealer because it was more expensive for me a few years ago. I went to a BMW repair facility in Louisville and they did the work.

Could you tell me where in Louisville?? I live about an hour away...


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[Sockethead]

Don't know if anybody posted this but here's the TIB from 2005...looks like they only list the firmware version for the e60?

BMW Service Bulletin
S I B 12 17 05
Engine Electrical Systems
September 2005
Technical Service
This Service Information bulletin supersedes S.M. B12 209 05 dated
4/6/2005.
SUBJECT
M54B30 MS45.1; Engine Power Drops at 4000 RPM
MODEL
E46, E60, E85 with M54B30 engine and manual transmission only
SITUATION
The customer may complain of an engine power drop at approximately 4000 RPM during aggressive acceleration.
CAUSE
Ignition timing retardation shift due to unfavorable knock adaptations in the 4000 - 5000 RPM range.
CORRECTION
On a customer complaint basis, perform the procedure described below.
PROCEDURE
1. Verify the complaint. This situation can vary from a slight surge to a noticeable drop in power during hard acceleration.
2. Do not replace any parts!
3. Submit a PuMA case requesting authorization for DME shipment to Engineering Department for reprogramming. For the PuMA case title please use the following: "MS45.1 DME KNOCK ADAPTATION RESET".
4. Reinstall the DME.
5. For E60 only: Reprogram the vehicle using CIP 19.1 (Target Data Status E060-05-09-530), or higher.
WARRANTY
Covered under the terms of the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
For the appropriate labor operations please refer to the KSD system.

[D1ESEL]

I think I'm just going to do the gasket and do headers with an AA tune.... :marvin

[BADCLOWN]

Could you tell me where in Louisville?? I live about an hour away...


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If I remember correctly it was Stein Automotive on Taylorsville Road in Louisville

[ELCID86]

25103

https://www.germanautosolutions.com/bmw_solutions/disa_products/m54_m52tu/m54_disa_o_rings/product_m54_disa_o_rings.php


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Thanks Doc.


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - anonymous

[san]

If I remember correctly it was Stein Automotive on Taylorsville Road in Louisville

Thanks


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[BADCLOWN]

They quoted me when I called 2 weeks ago at 200-250 for the flash if I remember correctly. I haven't called BMW to ask yet

[Dr Dynamite]

No. MN
Ah man, I have a guy here in socal who does dme flashes if u buy him lunch

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[GotZHP]

Ah man, I have a guy here in socal who does dme flashes if u buy him lunch

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Who is this you speak of? I am in Socal and my ZHP struggles at 4k.. well actually everywhere right now. stupid vacuum leak.

Replaced DISA, VANOS next weekend, vacuum leak this weekend. Reflash. If that doesn''t get the power back. Headers and Tune are always a good fix for torque dip in VVT vehicles

[terraphantm]

If anyone can't find a local guy at a reasonable price, mail me your DME and I'll flash it on my bench.

[GotZHP]

If anyone can't find a local guy at a reasonable price, mail me your DME and I'll flash it on my bench.

I want to get a second DME and put it on a bench. There is a really big thread on e45fanatics about bench tuning. something I want to get into.

what is your set up like? what do you have for equipement

[terraphantm]

I want to get a second DME and put it on a bench. There is a really big thread on e45fanatics about bench tuning. something I want to get into.

what is your set up like? what do you have for equipement

My bench is mostly setup for flashing. So it's a pretty bare bones setup - just a 12v power supply (anything over 500mA is sufficient), an OBDII port, along with a CAN-bus hookup. I don't have any inputs or outputs connected

[QC_ZHP]

I want to get a second DME and put it on a bench. There is a really big thread on e45fanatics about bench tuning. something I want to get into.


Same here, I'm still in the middle of getting my computer set up but I'm excited to start learning first hand. I've been doing tons of reading the past month or so. It's alot to learn but very interesting.


My bench is mostly setup for flashing. So it's a pretty bare bones setup - just a 12v power supply (anything over 500mA is sufficient), an OBDII port, along with a CAN-bus hookup. I don't have any inputs or outputs connected

Quick juvenile question. Since the CAS/EWS needs to be synced to the DME, whats the use of flashing spare DMEs? Tinkering/practice? Or is EWS deleted in the flash process?

I

[fw_fw]

I've been reading this and other threads with respect to low end power, and if there is one thing that I'm a just little disappointed in on my car is the low end grunt. From about 3.5-4K to redline it is almost as if a turbo or (gasp) VTEC kicks in, it just doesn't pull as hard as I feel it should in the lower RPM ranges. Don't have another ZHP to compare it to, but my S52 M Roadster I had pulled hard from all ranges, and I had always heard that the M54 in ZHP guise compared very favorable in power and revability to the S52. Reading this thread (and others) and with everything else seeming fine on the car I'm this close to pulling the trigger on a GAS DISA kit....everyone agree??

Bumping this question back inline since I didn't get a response.....

[terraphantm]

Bumping this question back inline since I didn't get a response.....

I can't say for sure without driving your car, but I wouldn't expect the ZHP to have as much grunt as the S52. That extra displacement makes a decent difference. Your M-roadster is also lighter and has shorter gears. I personally would probably try VANOS seals if I felt low end grunt on my car was lacking.

[fw_fw]

I can't say for sure without driving your car, but I wouldn't expect the ZHP to have as much grunt as the S52. That extra displacement makes a decent difference. Your M-roadster is also lighter and has shorter gears. I personally would probably try VANOS seals if I felt low end grunt on my car was lacking.

Well, it's not a bad problem, just not quite up to my expectations. Not having a known fully sorted ZHP to compare against I really don't have a reference, and it could be that I really don't have an issue at all. Hopefully at the Family reunion in TN later this year I can do some comparisons with some other ZHPs.

[BMWCurves]

Well, it's not a bad problem, just not quite up to my expectations. Not having a known fully sorted ZHP to compare against I really don't have a reference, and it could be that I really don't have an issue at all. Hopefully at the Family reunion in TN later this year I can do some comparisons with some other ZHPs.

Both my '03 and my '05 330Cis never had much low down grunt. It was passable, but nothing to write home about. The engine definitely rewards by revving it out.

It has nothing on my father's 540i. Love the low-rpm torque in that thing.

[Sockethead]

Well, it's not a bad problem, just not quite up to my expectations. Not having a known fully sorted ZHP to compare against I really don't have a reference, and it could be that I really don't have an issue at all. Hopefully at the Family reunion in TN later this year I can do some comparisons with some other ZHPs.

As Terraphantm said, a good VANOS will bring back whatever was there originally but I think you're going to find that these motors just don't have a lot of low end torque.

[egiles14]

Well, it's not a bad problem, just not quite up to my expectations. Not having a known fully sorted ZHP to compare against I really don't have a reference, and it could be that I really don't have an issue at all. Hopefully at the Family reunion in TN later this year I can do some comparisons with some other ZHPs.

I owned a '97 M3/4 5sp right before I purchased my '05 330i ZHP with 6sp back in March 2005. The extra displacement of the S52 definitely makes a difference...that car had a ton of low end grunt. At one point I had an underdrive crank pulley on the car (can't recall the brand, but no one seems to make those anymore) and it made an even larger difference in torque and power.

Regardless, the lack of low end torque was the first thing I noticed about the ZHP the day I picked it up from the dealer. Well that, and the terrible electronic throttle response. My current ZHP with the automatic 'feels' to have more low end grunt, but I know that is due from it having the 3.64:1 differential. That should improve more soon as I just ordered a new fuel pump and the entire VANOS rebuild kit.

[fw_fw]

As Terraphantm said, a good VANOS will bring back whatever was there originally but I think you're going to find that these motors just don't have a lot of low end torque.

...just another reason to downshift and hit those high RPMs! Thanks for the feedback everyone!

[terraphantm]

Quick juvenile question. Since the CAS/EWS needs to be synced to the DME, whats the use of flashing spare DMEs? Tinkering/practice? Or is EWS deleted in the flash process?

I

You can copy the ISN from the original DME to the spare via BDM. And in my case I also use it for the M3 DME, where deleting EWS is trivial.


As Terraphantm said, a good VANOS will bring back whatever was there originally but I think you're going to find that these motors just don't have a lot of low end torque.

Funny thing is, being used to the S54, I feel almost the opposite way. Engine is passable down low, but above 4K RPM it feels anemic. But that's okay since this car is just my beater / daily driver.