Apex ARC8 17" vs. 18", Offset, and Tire Size Questions

[BMWCurves]

Let me first preface all of my comments and questions by stating I don't know much about wheels or suspension. I'd love to learn though. I've sifted through several threads both here and other forums but I still haven't come to a clear picture about what wheel/tire setup I should use to meet my goals. Those goals are to maximize grip and handling, minimize unsprung weight, and improve ride comfort.

That said, I drove my father's 2006 ZHP this evening. 30k miles, original suspension. It sits on 17" Style 119 wheels wrapped in 225/45R17 Pirelli P Zero All Season Plus tires and it rides appreciably better than my car on stock 18" style 135Ms wrapped in a mix of Toyo Proxes T1s with a refreshed suspension. I'm guessing that the additional comfort is mostly a result of the tires having a lot more sidewall rather than the suspension itself or slight reduction in unsprung weight, but I could be wrong.

I had always planned to swap to a square set up with Apex ARC8s at some point to shed some unsprung weight and gain the looks but I'm at the all-too-common crossroads of 17" vs. 18". I really like the look of 18" wheels on our cars. On the other hand, I enjoyed the improved ride of the tall-sidewalled 225/45R17 tires on my father's car. So my first question is, how much would the ride improve with a 17" Apex wheel over an 18" version?

Next question is offset. The Style 135s are ET47 in the front and ET50 in the rear I believe. The closest offset that Apex makes in a 17x8.5" ARC8 is ET40, but they do make an ET45 in the 18x8.5" wheel. So that's a difference of 7mm in the front and 10mm rear for the 17" and 2 and 5mm in the 18". How important is that difference in offset to handling? I also am vaguely aware of this concept "scrub radius." Is that a big issue to consider with offset in terms of handling?

Now...tires. If I went with 18" wheels I think I would use 245/35R18 tires but maybe 235/40R18. But that 35 means a short sidewall so less ride comfort. In 17" wheels I'm torn between 245/40R17 and 235/45R17. How much grip will an extra 10mm add? How much does ride quality decrease with decreasing sidewall size? Will any of these wheel/tire combos rub on our stock suspension?

Finally, weight. Now, either wheel size sheds a lot of weight. My stock wheels weigh ~28 lbs front ~28.5 lbs rear. Conservatively, the weight savings from the wheels is 9.5 lbs in the 18" (28-18.2 = 9.8) and 10.5 lbs for the 17" (28-17.2 = 10.8). Tires I'm looking at the Continental ExtremeContact DW, which in the sizes listed above are (according to TireRack):

235/45R17 - 21 lbs
245/40R17 - 22 lbs
235/40R18 - 22 lbs
245/35R18 - 21 lbs

Which means the total weight per corner is:

17" - 17.2 lbs + 21-22 lbs = 38.2-39.2 lbs
18" - 18.2 lbs + 21-22 lbs = 39.2-40.2 lbs

At the end of the day, the weight is a bit of a wash. In both 245mm setups, it's roughly 39 lbs. The only difference is that the weight is slightly more toward the rotational axis, which, if my high school physics taught me anything, means there's lower rotational inertia. How noticeable would that difference in rotational inertia be?

I know, it's a lot of info, but you see what I'm wrestling with! I'm just trying to find the best performing square Apex ARC8 setup that would have some improved ride comfort. Am I thinking about this right? Any help would be greatly appreciated, especially from guys like Stephen or Derbo with 17" Apex wheels, even if it's a "you're doing this all wrong"!

EDIT:
I ended up purchasing 17x8.5" ET40 Apex ARC-8s in Hyper Black through their official group buy for a total of $849 shipped. I wrapped them in 245/40R17 Continental ExtremeContact DW tires from Discount Tire Direct for $482 shipped (promotion). My impression can be seen in my project thread (link (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?15714-William-s-330Ci-ZHP-Maintenance-and-Project-Thread&p=477342#post477342)), but for ease of reading's sake, here is a quick summary:


03/27/2016

I've had about 300 miles on them since they were installed and this set up is great. The car feels more planted in the corners and manages bumps in the road much better than before. With traction control off, I can use the throttle pedal to modulate the car's rotation. I think steering response is ever so slightly decreased which probably down to both a taller sidewall and a softer sidewall. I don't mind it though, just an observation. Slightly reduced road noise. All of that with a marked improvement in ride comfort. I really enjoy this setup, it's precisely what I hoped to get out of it.

Some people say they experience a slight increase in acceleration. I haven't really noticed it but wouldn't be too surprised if it were true.

Also I like the slight increased offset, visually. The additional ~10mm fills out the wheel wells nicely.

I figured I would also add this short Car and Driver article on the performance gains from reduced unsprung weight due to lighter wheels. Discussion of the article is found later in the thread here (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?16922-Apex-ARC8-17-quot-vs-18-quot-Offset-and-Tire-Size-Questions&p=476142#post476142).

http://i.imgur.com/n4yXxdt.jpg

[jhs1210]

Great post! Although I don't have a ZHP (yet), I'm very interested in the answers and comments to your post. Subscribed :)


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[NoVAphotog]

Subscribed. Great questions here, wondered the same things as this is on my future list as well.

:thumbsup

[derbo]

William,

Great post. Let me post my experience and specs before I answer your questions with my own personal opinions.

I used to run 18x8.5 +40 RPF1 on 255/35/18 Bridgestone RE11s
I am currently running 17x8.5+40 ARC8 on 245/40/17 Dunlop Star Specs Z1.

1. I'm not sure if you are looking for a quantifiable number or are you looking for an opinion of "comfort." But if logic serves you well, the diameter of the rim/tire is about 25" total. When you reduce the the rim size by an inch, you have to fill that inch up with addition rubber in order to keep the 25" diameter of the rim/tire setup. This will minimize discrepancies with the the speedometer. That being said, with an addition inch of rubber replacing metal, chances are comfort will be increased because obviously rubber is softer and more pliable than metal. Now, there are different types of compounds of rubber and the sportier ones have stronger sidewalls than the "ECO" ones. My personal downsize to 17" rims did change the diameter of the rim a little bit. Since I went to 245/40/17 instead of the 255/40/17, I went with a 24.72 inch diameter rim/tire setup. This meant my sidewalls only went from 3.51in to 3.86in instead of a half inch (sidewall is measured from edge of rim to edge of tread. A full inch would be both sidewall's added.) I don't think its significant enough to vastly improve the ride but it did give a little tolerance to bumps and potholes on the road.

2. Offset usually is a larger influence on clearance than it is regarding handling when you are talking about. A wider track will also improve your handling but will compromise some steering input and effort. To keep it simple, I run 17x8.5 + 40 fine without any issues on front and back.

3. 10mm doesn't sound like alot but its almost half an inch of track on ALL corners. Understand than the 2nd number in a tire size is an Aspect RATIO. It is depending on the 1st number to determine the sidewall height. For example, ZHP stock tires 225/40/18 has roughly same sidewall height as 255/35/18. I am unclear if they will rub as I never had stock suspension and non-factory sizes.

4. I wouldn't worry much about this. It's not significant enough to worry about it under 100mph.


If you are planning to get ARC8 for comfort, I would suggest the 17x8.5 with 255/40/17 tires. This is similar size to our 255/35/18s on the factory setup. Also, tires for 17s is significantly cheaper at that size. :)


And obligatory 17 ARC8 pic time. :)


http://i.imgur.com/sfXnvRQl.jpg

[san]

I cant answer any of your questions but just wanted to say the way you post questions and reply to questions from others is just awesome!!


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[BMWCurves]

Derbo,

This has a lot of great info, I appreciate it! I'll try and respond point by point:

1. Yes, I meant comfort from a non-quantifiable standpoint. I doubt anyone here has sat with their car and run over a rough road at a set speed and then swapped out wheel/tire combos and compared logged data from accelerometers, but hey, this place has incredible people so you never know! All your points make sense and they're basically what I assumed. I forgot to mention tire compound as another factor, but you touched on that as well. Are summer performance compounds less pliable/forgiving than all seasons or is there really no general trend i.e. there are both hard and soft compounds in all seasons and summer performance tires? And at the end of the day it sounds like you got a little improvement in comfort, but not much, correct?

2. How does a wider track from a smaller offset affect day-to-day road feel vs. during aggressive handling? Would it introduce tramlining? I'd prefer to keep my car relatively stable and comfortable since I don't plan to track the car often or even very soon.

3. I meant those questions in more of a general decrease of sidewall height, not specific numbers since it is a ratio. As far as the grip questions, I guess I should elaborate: since the contact patch shape will become more square in the rear on a 245mm tire but more rectangular on the front, will that affect stability/straightline grip vs. turn in ability, etc. Shouldn't a more square contact patch shape in the rear provide greater rear straightline traction while a wider contact patch shape in the front provide better turn in grip? Or am I thinking waaaaay beyond what I'll actually notice?

For my own personal reference, the approximate sidewall heights are ranked in descending order:

235/45R17 - 4.16"
245/40R17 - 3.86"
235/40R18 - 3.70"
245/35R18 - 3.36"

Stock:

225/40R18 - 3.54"
255/35R18 - 3.51"

From this I think the 245's on 18s is too short of a sidewall. 235s would be preferable.

4. I mentioned the rotational inertia question from my own basic understanding of physics and Stephen's mention of it in his review of his 17" Apex wheels here (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?14607-Apex-ARC-8-Hypersilver-17x8-5-quot-review). He seemed very enthusiastic but I can't tell if that's just from losing so much unsprung mass vs the actual shift in the mass' location around the rotational axis. I was just wondering if there would be appreciable difference where the mass is located in a 17" setup vs. an 18" setup but if you think it's only noticeable over 100mph, then it's really not worth considering haha

I really do like the way your car looks, but still have love for the 18s :p


I cant answer any of your questions but just wanted to say the way you post questions and reply to questions from others is just awesome!!
I appreciate that! Through my education I've learned that if you have a question, it's probable that at least one other person has the same question as you so you're potentially helping out more than just yourself. How else are we all supposed to learn?

Some more questions:

Has anyone had a negative experience from switching to a square setup? I figured a square setup would give the car a more neutral feel, although I can't really complain about the stock handling as particularly understeer-y, with the added benefit of being able to rotate tires. But maybe it's worth keeping a staggered setup. Someone sway me!
Rotating tires: I read somewhere that because of the greater negative camber in the rear that the treadwear is not ideal to be rotated to the front and can introduce NVH through odd harmonics as well as unfavorable handling characteristics. Anyone else heard this? I figure if you rotate often enough you'd avoid this anyways.
Has anyone run a 235 section tire? Did you notice a loss in rear grip or overall grip? My father's 540i w/ sport package (also up for sale soon if anyone's interested!) has a stock 235/45R17 setup and it rides even better than the ZHP he just purchased. It definitely is more tail happy than our cars, but I think that comes with a mixture of smaller section tires, heavier weight, and 320 ft-lbs of torque.
What sort of issues/handling characteristics does excessively wide front tires introduce? Derbo mentions a 255/40R17 tire since it's roughly a 25" diameter wheel, but it seems pretty darn wide on the front.
I guess I'm still nervous messing with the offset too much. A 17x8.5" ET40 wheel will be 0.7mm further away from the suspension strut in the front. The outer rim will poke out 13.4mm more than before (source (http://www.willtheyfit.com/index.php?width=225&aspect=40&diameter=18&wheelwidth=8&offset=47&width2=245&aspect2=40&diameter2=17&wheelwidth2=8.5&offset2=40#content)), while the 18x8.5" ET45 wheel is closer to stock and will be 4.3mm closer to the suspension strut. The outer rim will poke out 8.3mm more than before (source (http://www.willtheyfit.com/index.php?width=225&aspect=40&diameter=17&wheelwidth=8&offset=47&width2=245&aspect2=35&diameter2=18&wheelwidth2=8.5&offset2=45#content)). Am I really thinking about this too much?

Again, any help or insight is greatly appreciated!

[san]

I appreciate that! Through my education I've learned that if you have a question, it's probable that at least one other person has the same question as you so you're potentially helping out more than just yourself. How else are we all supposed to learn?
!

Couldn't agree more... I am planning to go down the same road as you but maybe a year down the line, so I will have the same questions as you and I am sure I will look back at this thread to make my decision... just like I used your thread on the suspension refresh!
:thumbsup



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[derbo]

Derbo,

This has a lot of great info, I appreciate it! I'll try and respond point by point:

1. Yes, I meant comfort from a non-quantifiable standpoint. I doubt anyone here has sat with their car and run over a rough road at a set speed and then swapped out wheel/tire combos and compared logged data from accelerometers, but hey, this place has incredible people so you never know! All your points make sense and they're basically what I assumed. I forgot to mention tire compound as another factor, but you touched on that as well. Are summer performance compounds less pliable/forgiving than all seasons or is there really no general trend i.e. there are both hard and soft compounds in all seasons and summer performance tires? And at the end of the day it sounds like you got a little improvement in comfort, but not much, correct?

2. How does a wider track from a smaller offset affect day-to-day road feel vs. during aggressive handling? Would it introduce tramlining? I'd prefer to keep my car relatively stable and comfortable since I don't plan to track the car often or even very soon.

3. I meant those questions in more of a general decrease of sidewall height, not specific numbers since it is a ratio. As far as the grip questions, I guess I should elaborate: since the contact patch shape will become more square in the rear on a 245mm tire but more rectangular on the front, will that affect stability/straightline grip vs. turn in ability, etc. Shouldn't a more square contact patch shape in the rear provide greater rear straightline traction while a wider contact patch shape in the front provide better turn in grip? Or am I thinking waaaaay beyond what I'll actually notice?

For my own personal reference, the approximate sidewall heights are ranked in descending order:

235/45R17 - 4.16"
245/40R17 - 3.86"
235/40R18 - 3.70"
245/35R18 - 3.36"

Stock:

225/40R18 - 3.54"
255/35R18 - 3.51"

From this I think the 245's on 18s is too short of a sidewall. 235s would be preferable.

4. I mentioned the rotational inertia question from my own basic understanding of physics and Stephen's mention of it in his review of his 17" Apex wheels here (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?14607-Apex-ARC-8-Hypersilver-17x8-5-quot-review). He seemed very enthusiastic but I can't tell if that's just from losing so much unsprung mass vs the actual shift in the mass' location around the rotational axis. I was just wondering if there would be appreciable difference where the mass is located in a 17" setup vs. an 18" setup but if you think it's only noticeable over 100mph, then it's really not worth considering haha

I really do like the way your car looks, but still have love for the 18s :p


I appreciate that! Through my education I've learned that if you have a question, it's probable that at least one other person has the same question as you so you're potentially helping out more than just yourself. How else are we all supposed to learn?

Some more questions:

Has anyone had a negative experience from switching to a square setup? I figured a square setup would give the car a more neutral feel, although I can't really complain about the stock handling as particularly understeer-y, with the added benefit of being able to rotate tires. But maybe it's worth keeping a staggered setup. Someone sway me!
Rotating tires: I read somewhere that because of the greater negative camber in the rear that the treadwear is not ideal to be rotated to the front and can introduce NVH through odd harmonics as well as unfavorable handling characteristics. Anyone else heard this? I figure if you rotate often enough you'd avoid this anyways.
Has anyone run a 235 section tire? Did you notice a loss in rear grip or overall grip? My father's 540i w/ sport package (also up for sale soon if anyone's interested!) has a stock 235/45R17 setup and it rides even better than the ZHP he just purchased. It definitely is more tail happy than our cars, but I think that comes with a mixture of smaller section tires, heavier weight, and 320 ft-lbs of torque.
What sort of issues/handling characteristics does excessively wide front tires introduce? Derbo mentions a 255/40R17 tire since it's roughly a 25" diameter wheel, but it seems pretty darn wide on the front.
I guess I'm still nervous messing with the offset too much. A 17x8.5" ET40 wheel will be 0.7mm further away from the suspension strut in the front. The outer rim will poke out 13.4mm more than before (source (http://www.willtheyfit.com/index.php?width=225&aspect=40&diameter=18&wheelwidth=8&offset=47&width2=245&aspect2=40&diameter2=17&wheelwidth2=8.5&offset2=40#content)), while the 18x8.5" ET45 wheel is closer to stock and will be 4.3mm closer to the suspension strut. The outer rim will poke out 8.3mm more than before (source (http://www.willtheyfit.com/index.php?width=225&aspect=40&diameter=17&wheelwidth=8&offset=47&width2=245&aspect2=35&diameter2=18&wheelwidth2=8.5&offset2=45#content)). Am I really thinking about this too much?

Again, any help or insight is greatly appreciated!




1. Certain summer tires may be stiffer than others. For example, I use Extreme Summer Performance tires. Most of these tires are treadwear 200 and their sidewalls are significantly stiffer than say the Bridgestone S04 (regular summer tires). I also want to note, that I noticed the Bridgestones I've used tend to have softer tires than the Dunlop counterpart. I don't have any quantifiable numbers to prove so but that is what my butt says. Haha.

2. Tramlining definitely is more of a concern when you lower the car and increase negative camber. Larger contact patches will also affect this regardless of the width of the track. When you have LARGE offset changes you will see the effects of tramlining. IMO, 10mm is not significant enough to be bothered by the minor difference.

3. By going with a square setup you naturally introduce a more neutral steering feel. From a factory standpoint, understeer setups are the safest to deploy due to the biggest unknown factor: Driver capability.

For your sidewall checks, I honestly prefer to keep it at 255/35/18. I currently run 245/40/17 but I will be going back to 255/40/17 after I waste this set at the track.

4. Yea, honestly the change usually is minor if the weights are identical.



Other questions:
1. Square setup = more neutral feel, Tire rotation is possible to a larger degree especially if you have non-directional tires.
2. My rear camber is -2.0 and front is -3.0. I rotate as often as possible so I may not be a good help here. Improper wear can contribute to bad NVH or tramline or unwanted tracking. It's up to you if the ability to rotate is worth having the POSSIBILITY of having these issues. It's not always going to happen and its dependent on how the tires wear.
3. Remember that 235 is usually measured from outer edge of a rim to the edge of the inner edge of the rim. A 235mm from bridgestone MAY not be the same as dunlop 235mm. I know for a fact the Dunlop Z1 SS 245mm is more like a 255mm if properly measured. They are cheating! haha.
4. Yes you are. Pushing out the rim is actually a good idea in terms of handling and looks. German manufacturers put a 12mm gap in the fender to allow for proper snow chain clearance. You can run a 10-15mm spacer to push out the stock rims to give a better look and wider track. :)

Anyways, I hope that helps.

[Go Horns!]

I made the switch to 17x8.5 et40 Arc-8s with 245/40/15 Conti DWS-06. I was previously running stock with Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric all-season.

Ride comfort improved slightly. The rear-end is more willing to step out, but I think that has more to do with the switch in rubber than the switch to a square setup.

Overall, I'm happy with the switch and the look.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/765/20607505261_b45bf57af3_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xp1RmR)[/url] (https://flic.kr/p/xp1RmR)

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/644/20412908490_064d5ba49b_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/x6Puw7) (https://flic.kr/p/x6Puw7)

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/647/19980035603_ce54cdb03c_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/wryUut) [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/59501450@N04/] (https://flic.kr/p/wryUut)

Stock springs, koni yellows. I have a subwoofer in the trunk, and a set of 135s in the backseat, so the rear is lower than normal.

[NoVAphotog]

I made the switch to 17x8.5 et40 Arc-8s with 245/40/15 Conti DWS-06. I was previously running stock with Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric all-season.

Ride comfort improved slightly. The rear-end is more willing to step out, but I think that has more to do with the switch in rubber than the switch to a square setup.

Overall, I'm happy with the switch and the look.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/765/20607505261_b45bf57af3_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xp1RmR)[/url] (https://flic.kr/p/xp1RmR)

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/644/20412908490_064d5ba49b_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/x6Puw7) (https://flic.kr/p/x6Puw7)

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/647/19980035603_ce54cdb03c_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/wryUut) [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/59501450@N04/] (https://flic.kr/p/wryUut)

Stock springs, koni yellows. I have a subwoofer in the trunk, and a set of 135s in the backseat, so the rear is lower than normal.
Looks great. This is what I'm thinking about as well...minus the sub [emoji14]

Is that hyper black?

Sent from an HTC One

[Go Horns!]

Yep. those are hyperblack. They are more reflective than the 135s, but darker. Kind of like a black chrome, but not as shiny as chrome.

[BMWCurves]

@Go Horns!

You have the same setup as me (stock springs, Koni Sports) and I really like the look of your 17" Apexes. Either 17" or 18" I want the Hyper Black.

@Derbo,

I really appreciate the info, it's definitely clarified some things for me! :thumbsup Now I'll have to sit here and it mull over.

Anyone else have suggestions or comments? I like to crowd source my decisions!

[Vas]

Do you like more sidewall and a more cushy ride due to more tire? Then 17s is the way to go.

Do you like the look of 18s and the ability to rotate tires? Then 18s with a 235 section width tire fits the car great. No fender rolling is needed either. Have a family member with this exact setup.

I personally like 17s for winter use or a car that sees track duty. For the street the 18s look great. I might consider a square set-up but I like the way the car looks with a wider rear section tire. Might go up to a 235 section width on the front.

[derbo]

I would do 255/35/18 now if I was to redo it since I barely put miles on my car. But as a track car 17 is awesome.


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[Vas]

I would do 255/35/18 now if I was to redo it since I barely put miles on my car. But as a track car 17 is awesome.


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Just the cost of Tires goes up a good bit.

[NoVAphotog]

Just the cost of Tires goes up a good bit.
+1

Defeats the purpose for me...17s, with the square specs discussed previously are what I'm leaning towards for not only the financial reasons but performance as well, our cars already don't need 255s...

[BMWCurves]

Do you like more sidewall and a more cushy ride due to more tire? Then 17s is the way to go.

Do you like the look of 18s and the ability to rotate tires? Then 18s with a 235 section width tire fits the car great. No fender rolling is needed either. Have a family member with this exact setup.

I personally like 17s for winter use or a car that sees track duty. For the street the 18s look great. I might consider a square set-up but I like the way the car looks with a wider rear section tire. Might go up to a 235 section width on the front.

Yup, those are the decisions I'm weighing. On the ZHP you have with 235 sections, is that a square setup? Did you find any significant loss of grip from the switch?

[Vas]

Yup, those are the decisions I'm weighing. On the ZHP you have with 235 sections, is that a square setup? Did you find any significant loss of grip from the switch?

That car is my mom's zhp. She does not hoon it lol. Just a daily driver. Only reason we went to a square tire set-up was for the ability to rotate tires since she commutes a significant amount. Plus did not want to do a fender roll in the rear.

It is a square 18x8.5 et 40 apex arc-8 in silver. 235/40/18 conti dws tires.

If i was going to ditch the factory wheels/tires, this is what I would do. The car does ride better with a lighter wheel set-up.

[slater]

+1

Defeats the purpose for me...17s, with the square specs discussed previously are what I'm leaning towards for not only the financial reasons but performance as well, our cars already don't need 255s...

you know, i didn't think so either. but i have no problem breaking my 255/35/18 PSS' loose... i don't think i could put anything narrower than a 245 on the rear for street use.

peter

[BMWCurves]

That car is my mom's zhp. She does not hoon it lol. Just a daily driver. Only reason we went to a square tire set-up was for the ability to rotate tires since she commutes a significant amount. Plus did not want to do a fender roll in the rear.

It is a square 18x8.5 et 40 apex arc-8 in silver. 235/40/18 conti dws tires.

If i was going to ditch the factory wheels/tires, this is what I would do. The car does ride better with a lighter wheel set-up.

Not with that attitude!

Anyways, that info helps. Thanks, Vas


you know, i didn't think so either. but i have no problem breaking my 255/35/18 PSS' loose... i don't think i could put anything narrower than a 245 on the rear for street use.

peter

I can get my 255/35/18 rears to break loose if I try, but when I drove my father's on significantly narrower 225/45R17s Pirelli P Zero All Seasons, the broke loose at fairly similar speeds, maybe a few mph slower, which was surprising that they had that much grip.

Sigh. I think I'll be happy no matter what I do given the significant weight savings in all options, just need to make an executive decision.

[Vas]

Not with that attitude!

Anyways, that info helps. Thanks, Vas



I can get my 255/35/18 rears to break loose if I try, but when I drove my father's on significantly narrower 225/45R17s Pirelli P Zero All Seasons, the broke loose at fairly similar speeds, maybe a few mph slower, which was surprising that they had that much grip.

Sigh. I think I'll be happy no matter what I do given the significant weight savings in all options, just need to make an executive decision.
Sorry. I don't follow. 😕

[BMWCurves]

My attempt at a lame joke.

[NoVAphotog]

For anyone thinking about the 18inch Apex setup...Group Buy for all the different types.

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?1735-What-did-you-buy-today&p=456414#post456414

[ZacharyMikel]

Recently, I made the switch from Style 135's to a square set of Arc8's, 18x9.5 +35mm. They are wrapped in 235/40r/18 Bridgestone Potenza RE70's. I ran these wheels for one week on factory suspension before changing to BC Racing coilovers.

Although most of the people in here appear to be leaning toward 17's with a taller sidewall, I'll still chime in.


Yup, those are the decisions I'm weighing. On the ZHP you have with 235 sections, is that a square setup? Did you find any significant loss of grip from the switch?

I used the same tires on the 135's. After switching to the Arc's, I can say that I noticed a huge improvement in sure-footedness while cornering. The car did feel neutral, but more confident at higher speeds. I'm assuming that the change was due to moving from an 8-inch wheel to a 9.5-inch. There was zero rubbing with the factory height. As soon as I switched to the BC coilovers, I had to roll fenders to ensure that there wouldn't be any rubbing.

I run -2 deg rear camber and -1.5 up front. I daily drive my car, and don't race it at all, so I am not as knowledgable in the autocross/track department. I can say that I have noticed an increase in tramlining every once in awhile (especially now that it's colder), but nothing that I haven't been able to get used to. Overall I am very happy with my setup and think it's fairly practical for a dependable DD configuration.

And of course, picture time ;)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/PK9GZ26Jm64ME_VXNxb-w1kaqBsyweSGl8DaTzE2BIg5hVsv2rHQJ6JbX3FoK-IgRJrwRStC36RMjp3aBEZWOe52fZhjbKTZvu9hd46L6V0NCPNX 0YpZ_0I4vFUFdCbGYOROGK49S0_WrrxQldKIoybwf69_UgvMWh qpWfVfLpDX9T2EhS0A-SisTozBl1sxgrj0HGXYrJTbTd9YCBetx9pGm3rjq6Oc3pvdR5f AdntLz3Xq4ZHbcM1mcwAyBT9dMyzM8OXDNf9Zt257C4aNmASnf aX-Hcfc1NbBNE32trw7_jcRFQWe2x7hBcU1gccoRbYR8X33GC3V0o Wf7hd6hv798aHHHD6HHTnynXpDNdeShFxgec5bHiNOLGeYroTQ PfGMH9IKhepe_qphhJDlDUqMl8UYAwfAgIgLwnb3u5Hi17hipm gIwr_Xyx2dDEwA82zUVyVbDmKB-u_eHFypNot9_-awZynFdT4bI-0YXUxlm9JsWMQmZzpQLVb-dSud-oTQXuhcVBwx9Av5m--WnQMLYZOCZxA38C_cpfoJCeM=w1358-h764-no

[Vas]

For anyone thinking about the 18inch Apex setup...Group Buy for all the different types.

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?1735-What-did-you-buy-today&p=456414#post456414
For spring?

[NoVAphotog]

Recently, I made the switch from Style 135's to a square set of Arc8's, 18x9.5 +35mm. They are wrapped in 235/40r/18 Bridgestone Potenza RE70's. I ran these wheels for one week on factory suspension before changing to BC Racing coilovers.

Although most of the people in here appear to be leaning toward 17's with a taller sidewall, I'll still chime in.



I used the same tires on the 135's. After switching to the Arc's, I can say that I noticed a huge improvement in sure-footedness while cornering. The car did feel neutral, but more confident at higher speeds. I'm assuming that the change was due to moving from an 8-inch wheel to a 9.5-inch. There was zero rubbing with the factory height. As soon as I switched to the BC coilovers, I had to roll fenders to ensure that there wouldn't be any rubbing.

I run -2 deg rear camber and -1.5 up front. I daily drive my car, and don't race it at all, so I am not as knowledgable in the autocross/track department. I can say that I have noticed an increase in tramlining every once in awhile (especially now that it's colder), but nothing that I haven't been able to get used to. Overall I am very happy with my setup and think it's fairly practical for a dependable DD configuration.

And of course, picture time ;)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/PK9GZ26Jm64ME_VXNxb-w1kaqBsyweSGl8DaTzE2BIg5hVsv2rHQJ6JbX3FoK-IgRJrwRStC36RMjp3aBEZWOe52fZhjbKTZvu9hd46L6V0NCPNX 0YpZ_0I4vFUFdCbGYOROGK49S0_WrrxQldKIoybwf69_UgvMWh qpWfVfLpDX9T2EhS0A-SisTozBl1sxgrj0HGXYrJTbTd9YCBetx9pGm3rjq6Oc3pvdR5f AdntLz3Xq4ZHbcM1mcwAyBT9dMyzM8OXDNf9Zt257C4aNmASnf aX-Hcfc1NbBNE32trw7_jcRFQWe2x7hBcU1gccoRbYR8X33GC3V0o Wf7hd6hv798aHHHD6HHTnynXpDNdeShFxgec5bHiNOLGeYroTQ PfGMH9IKhepe_qphhJDlDUqMl8UYAwfAgIgLwnb3u5Hi17hipm gIwr_Xyx2dDEwA82zUVyVbDmKB-u_eHFypNot9_-awZynFdT4bI-0YXUxlm9JsWMQmZzpQLVb-dSud-oTQXuhcVBwx9Av5m--WnQMLYZOCZxA38C_cpfoJCeM=w1358-h764-no

Looks awesome. Pics before BC's at factory height by chance?

[ZacharyMikel]

Looks awesome. Pics before BC's at factory height by chance?

Certainly.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/02/fae11691314a661741882c6f4add8742.jpg


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[BMWCurves]

Recently, I made the switch from Style 135's to a square set of Arc8's, 18x9.5 +35mm. They are wrapped in 235/40r/18 Bridgestone Potenza RE70's. I ran these wheels for one week on factory suspension before changing to BC Racing coilovers.

Although most of the people in here appear to be leaning toward 17's with a taller sidewall, I'll still chime in.



I used the same tires on the 135's. After switching to the Arc's, I can say that I noticed a huge improvement in sure-footedness while cornering. The car did feel neutral, but more confident at higher speeds. I'm assuming that the change was due to moving from an 8-inch wheel to a 9.5-inch. There was zero rubbing with the factory height. As soon as I switched to the BC coilovers, I had to roll fenders to ensure that there wouldn't be any rubbing.

I run -2 deg rear camber and -1.5 up front. I daily drive my car, and don't race it at all, so I am not as knowledgable in the autocross/track department. I can say that I have noticed an increase in tramlining every once in awhile (especially now that it's colder), but nothing that I haven't been able to get used to. Overall I am very happy with my setup and think it's fairly practical for a dependable DD configuration.

And of course, picture time ;)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/PK9GZ26Jm64ME_VXNxb-w1kaqBsyweSGl8DaTzE2BIg5hVsv2rHQJ6JbX3FoK-IgRJrwRStC36RMjp3aBEZWOe52fZhjbKTZvu9hd46L6V0NCPNX 0YpZ_0I4vFUFdCbGYOROGK49S0_WrrxQldKIoybwf69_UgvMWh qpWfVfLpDX9T2EhS0A-SisTozBl1sxgrj0HGXYrJTbTd9YCBetx9pGm3rjq6Oc3pvdR5f AdntLz3Xq4ZHbcM1mcwAyBT9dMyzM8OXDNf9Zt257C4aNmASnf aX-Hcfc1NbBNE32trw7_jcRFQWe2x7hBcU1gccoRbYR8X33GC3V0o Wf7hd6hv798aHHHD6HHTnynXpDNdeShFxgec5bHiNOLGeYroTQ PfGMH9IKhepe_qphhJDlDUqMl8UYAwfAgIgLwnb3u5Hi17hipm gIwr_Xyx2dDEwA82zUVyVbDmKB-u_eHFypNot9_-awZynFdT4bI-0YXUxlm9JsWMQmZzpQLVb-dSud-oTQXuhcVBwx9Av5m--WnQMLYZOCZxA38C_cpfoJCeM=w1358-h764-no

For some reason the photo is restricted, but your non coilover photo looks great. I really love the look of the concave wheels!

Thanks for the input, I'm considering the 18s on 235 section tires. Well I'm considering all of them but it helps to have people chime in who have experience with specific wheel/tire combinations.


For anyone thinking about the 18inch Apex setup...Group Buy for all the different types.

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?1735-What-did-you-buy-today&p=456414#post456414

Going in on it?

[NoVAphotog]

Going in on it?

If it was for the 17s...

[BMWCurves]

It looks like they had a group buy for 17s that ended on 10/27. I wonder how often that'll come around.

[NoVAphotog]

It looks like they had a group buy for 17s that ended on 10/27. I wonder how often that'll come around.
Probably often...most popular size (SpecE46, etc)

[derbo]

I picked mine up locally from apex themselves so I saved shipping ;)


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[Vas]

There can be multiple reasons to why a car tramlines but going to such a wide wheel will only increase it. Other reasons could be the type of tires or even worn suspension parts.

A 235 section width or a 9.5" wide wheel is a good bit of tire stretch as well.

[derbo]

There can be multiple reasons to why a car tramlines but going to such a wide wheel will only increase it. Other reasons could be the type of tires or even worn suspension parts.

A 235 section width or a 9.5" wide wheel is a good bit of tire stretch as well.

Excessive front camber also does that too.

[BMWCurves]

Got a response from Apex, for those considering:

"We are expecting a restock of the Hyper Black 18x8.5" ET45 wheels towards the end of the year, or shortly after the new year. However, we do not have an exact ETA right now. Because they are not currently available, they are not part of our Group Buy. We should expect to host another 17" ARC-8 Group Buy sometime after the new year."

[NoVAphotog]

We should expect to host another 17" ARC-8 Group Buy sometime after the new year."

That's what I like to hear.

[derbo]

Got a response from Apex, for those considering:

"We are expecting a restock of the Hyper Black 18x8.5" ET45 wheels towards the end of the year, or shortly after the new year. However, we do not have an exact ETA right now. Because they are not currently available, they are not part of our Group Buy. We should expect to host another 17" ARC-8 Group Buy sometime after the new year."

17s! 17s!


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[rguti153]

I waited almost a year for the arc 8 18inch group buy

[D1ESEL]

I will be putting my 17x9 et30 with a 245/40/r17 square on my ZHP this spring when I get the coilovers on.

I am a bit concerned about fitment. Anyone running this setup? I will probably have to roll my fenders but fingers crossed I don't have to get to wild.

[ZacharyMikel]

There can be multiple reasons to why a car tramlines but going to such a wide wheel will only increase it. Other reasons could be the type of tires or even worn suspension parts.

A 235 section width or a 9.5" wide wheel is a good bit of tire stretch as well.

A little update for you guys (not trying to threadjack): since I have replaced my fcabs and rtabs, the tramlining is completely gone.

But I would agree. Next time I will go with 245 or 255 width tires.




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[slater]

I will be putting my 17x9 et30 with a 245/40/r17 square on my ZHP this spring when I get the coilovers on.

I am a bit concerned about fitment. Anyone running this setup? I will probably have to roll my fenders but fingers crossed I don't have to get to wild.

17x9 ET30 is too low of an offset for a ZHP. you'd be better off selling the wheels and getting the 17x9 ET42 model, which i think are even too much for the front.

[D1ESEL]

I am going to get the coilovers installed and then go from there. I know it is going to be aggressive as they were on my e36 M but we will see.

[derbo]

17x9 ET30 is too low of an offset for a ZHP. you'd be better off selling the wheels and getting the 17x9 ET42 model, which i think are even too much for the front.

It's one tight fit even with my ground control coilovers which removes the large spring perch.

This picture is with my 17x8.5 +40

http://i.imgur.com/lw7FA1nl.jpg

[09mageec]

Guys, I spoke with a fitment specialist at Apex just yesterday before seeing this thread.

When I go to buy this spring (maybe group buy) I will more than likely be going with an arc-8 square setup, running 18x9, and 255/35/r18 with an offset of 42, which were all recommended after a nice long talk about how the concave (which I YEARN for) will never be an ideal setup from a performance standpoint concerning the non M e46 . So shallow face it is..

I was asked what my plan for the car was, which is a street car (not daily driven) that can be taken to the track as well. I also specified that I want a nice meaty fitment as far as rubber goes. I am already sitting on BC coils with camber plates.

Do any members run this wheel setup currently (preferably hyper black!), or plan on running it in the future?

I'd also recommend that anyone who has questions, do not to hesitate to call Apex directly. They are VERY helpful with fitment advise/questions.


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[slater]

It's one tight fit even with my ground control coilovers which removes the large spring perch.

This picture is with my 17x8.5 +40

http://i.imgur.com/lw7FA1nl.jpg

whoa! that is a tight fit.



Guys, I spoke with a fitment specialist at Apex just yesterday before seeing this thread.

When I go to buy this spring (maybe group buy) I will more than likely be going with an arc-8 square setup, running 18x9, and 255/35/r18, which was recommended after a nice long talk about how the concave (which I YEARN for) will never be an ideal setup from a performance standpoint. So shallow face it is..

yep. it's too wide for our cars and will introduce tramlining, increased wheel bearing wear, etc. not to mention the need for fender rolling and/or pulling. just ain't worth it to 'look cool' in my opinion.

[09mageec]

yep. it's too wide for our cars and will introduce tramlining, increased wheel bearing wear, etc. not to mention the need for fender rolling and/or pulling. just ain't worth it to 'look cool' in my opinion.

Yeah man, it really made me ponder other wheel options. However, if you're willing to put aesthetics aside, and take the arc8 for what they are, they are SUPERB set of wheels. Truly performance geared in all aspects of their manufacturing.


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[slater]

Yeah man, it really made me ponder other wheel options. However, if you're willing to put aesthetics aside, and take the arc8 for what they are, they are SUPERB set of wheels. Truly performance geared in all aspects of their manufacturing.

agreed. i would love a set of 18x8.5 ET45. just too much $ in CAD right now.

[BMWCurves]

Read this small blurb in this in February 2016's Car and Driver magazine. I thought it was interesting, if far from scientific or definitive. But it does show that lighter wheels can have an affect on performance:

http://i.imgur.com/n4yXxdt.jpg

[slater]

wow, cool find william! those results are staggering. granted, they are 14lb and 15lb weight differences, but still! that's some major acceleration improvements.

my stock wheels with michelin PSS weigh about 51-52lbs each. my 17" Style 68s with michelin PS AS3's weigh about 42lbs each. pretty noticeable different behind the wheel (ha), to me.

[BMWCurves]

Yeah, I was pretty surprised as well. I know the above article is not entirely scientific, but I know lighter wheels i.e. reduced unsprung weight is supposed to improve handling and ride. What I didn't realize is that it could have a drastic effect on acceleration. Granted, our cars are significantly down on power and torque compared to the Mustang in the article so we probably won't see that kind of performance change, but I'm still there's performance improvement to be had, as you say you feel on your Style 68s.

I'm very excited for my ARC-8s to arrive. Between the ARC-8's 17.2 lbs per wheel, 22 lbs for the Continental tires, and 3/1 lbs front/rear for the BMW Performance drilled rotors means it should be a net weight loss of 15 lbs on each corner in unsprung weight.

[san]

Granted, our cars are significantly down on power and torque compared to the Mustang in the article so we probably won't see that kind of performance change

Since our cars are less powerful than the Mustangs, shouldn't we notice a bigger difference?? I mean the Mustangs are so damn powerful that saving a few pounds in weight should be less noticeable...


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[BMWCurves]

Hmm...that's a thought, I'm not sure. I guess now's the time to buy a VBOX and go test it on our cars to confirm before and after :P

[slater]

Hmm...that's a thought, I'm not sure. I guess now's the time to buy a VBOX and go test it on our cars to confirm before and after :P

i love it. let us know what happens. ;)

[09mageec]

This has me stoked to feel the difference once I get the arc8's on my car.


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[BMWCurves]

i love it. let us know what happens. ;)

Haha if I were made of money, maybe.

VBOX does sound cool though, they make a lot of interesting products.

[san]

Bumping this thread cause I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to sizing wheels....

I noticed that many if not all people who bought arc 8 wheels in the recent 17" group buy have the face of the wheel to be pretty much flat... But I have also seen pictures with concave wheel faces... So does the wheel face having a flat or concave face purely depend on offsets, wheels sizes etc? And is it possible to have a concave faced apex arc 8 wheels on a Zhp??


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[ZacharyMikel]

Bumping this thread cause I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to sizing wheels....

I noticed that many if not all people who bought arc 8 wheels in the recent 17" group buy have the face of the wheel to be pretty much flat... But I have also seen pictures with concave wheel faces... So does the wheel face having a flat or concave face purely depend on offsets, wheels sizes etc? And is it possible to have a concave faced apex arc 8 wheels on a Zhp??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You are correct. The aggressive concave profile wheels currently only come in a couple wider & lower offset sizes. I have the concave profiles on my car. All my wheel/tire/suspension specs are in my build thread.

If you are willing to work a bit for it (fender roll, install front camber plates, shave bumper tabs in the rear), it can be achieved no problem. But you can't just mount them up and be good to go.

Also with the wider stance, if your roads are rutted, you'll notice the car will tram-line slightly more than before. I've pretty much solved this by having my alignment shop adjust my toe angle to zero. (For those that auto-cross or track, that isn't an option as you need some toe in to corner effectively.)

Some also have said that the wider wheels can hurt wheel bearings with time... Although I can't say I've found this out myself firsthand.

All things to consider before you take the leap. It looks awesome, and it's nice to have a square setup, but you just have to decide how much work you really want to put in, and how much you want to deal with.

[ELCID86]

I do like the concave look much better Sandeep. (Been teasing Dan about his flat face!)


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - anonymous

[NoVAphotog]

I do like the concave look much better Sandeep. (Been teasing Dan about his flat face!)


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - anonymous

Really don't understand that...it makes it look WAY more aggressive and ruins the classiness of the ZHP. Mine already do that a bit, but keep it within reason and oem-ish. Plus I was not willing or wanted to do ANY sort of modification or fabrication to my fenders not to mention "dealing with" wider stance and tramlining.

25270

25271

[ZacharyMikel]

Really don't understand that...it makes it look WAY more aggressive and ruins the classiness of the ZHP. Mine already do that a bit, but keep it within reason and oem-ish. Plus I was not willing or wanted to do ANY sort of modification or fabrication to my fenders not to mention "dealing with" wider stance and tramlining.


Everyone is definitely entitled to their opinion and preferences.

[Vas]

I do like the concave look much better Sandeep. (Been teasing Dan about his flat face!)


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - anonymous

yeah the concave face is more pleasing to the eye versus the Flat face.

[NoVAphotog]

Everyone is definitely entitled to their opinion and preferences.

Oh yeah, just playing along with the "joshing" that Vas and Shawn have been doing to me...I like the concave look, just emphasizing the work needed to pull it off.

[ZacharyMikel]

Oh yeah, just playing along with the "joshing" that Vas and Shawn have been doing to me...I like the concave look, just emphasizing the work needed to pull it off.

Haha no worries :)

[NoVAphotog]

yeah the concave face is more pleasing to the eye versus the Flat face.

Exhibit A. @zacharymikel

:wub

[Vas]

Exhibit A. @zacharymikel

:wub

Why soo flat face...

25272

[san]

You are correct. The aggressive concave profile wheels currently only come in a couple wider & lower offset sizes. I have the concave profiles on my car. All my wheel/tire/suspension specs are in my build thread.

If you are willing to work a bit for it (fender roll, install front camber plates, shave bumper tabs in the rear), it can be achieved no problem. But you can't just mount them up and be good to go.

Also with the wider stance, if your roads are rutted, you'll notice the car will tram-line slightly more than before. I've pretty much solved this by having my alignment shop adjust my toe angle to zero. (For those that auto-cross or track, that isn't an option as you need some toe in to corner effectively.)

Some also have said that the wider wheels can hurt wheel bearings with time... Although I can't say I've found this out myself firsthand.

All things to consider before you take the leap. It looks awesome, and it's nice to have a square setup, but you just have to decide how much work you really want to put in, and how much you want to deal with.

Thanks for the explanation. I went through your project thread and it is exactly what I was talking about. Looks great!

I would prefer not to have flat faced wheels too, but let's c what il decide when the time comes [emoji4]

[ZacharyMikel]

Thanks for the explanation. I went through your project thread and it is exactly what I was talking about. Looks great!

I would prefer not to have flat faced wheels too, but let's c what il decide when the time comes [emoji4]

No prob!

My one piece of advice would be to run different tires. My Bridgestone's were originally purchased for my stock Style 135 wheels, and they're just a hair too narrow. My next set of tires will be 255/35/18's. The thinner sidewalls should make up for the extra width as far as fitment.

Also, this is the guy on E46F I modeled my specs after: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=890692

Good luck!

[Taliben]

No prob!

My one piece of advice would be to run different tires. My Bridgestone's were originally purchased for my stock Style 135 wheels, and they're just a hair too narrow. My next set of tires will be 255/35/18's. The thinner sidewalls should make up for the extra width as far as fitment.

Also, this is the guy on E46F I modeled my specs after: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=890692

Good luck!

What're your spring rates up front? I'm on a 255 square right now and you gotta be pretty careful with it over bumps while turning or it'll rub.

[ZacharyMikel]

What're your spring rates up front? I'm on a 255 square right now and you gotta be pretty careful with it over bumps while turning or it'll rub.

I have the M3 BC Racing coilovers, so they're 8kg front/12kg rear. But remember, I am currently on a 235 tire. Are your fenders rolled?

[ELCID86]

Apex ps-7 might be an option.


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - anonymous

[BMWCurves]

Oh yeah, just playing along with the "joshing" that Vas and Shawn have been doing to me...I like the concave look, just emphasizing the work needed to pull it off.

Solidarity, my flat-faced wheel brethren.

[danewilson77]

I do like the concave look much better Sandeep. (Been teasing Dan about his flat face!)


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - anonymous
Agree.

Sent from an S6 Edge

[san]

Apex ps-7 might be an option.


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - anonymous

Yup, I agree, but I prefer the ec-7 over ps-7 but they are about 2.5pounds heavier than arc8 I think...

[jhs1210]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160328/efdc9e3535e91cdde66ad6a3cd985fb3.jpg

The ZHP that I'm picking up this week has the concave wheels. But I like both looks.


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[ELCID86]

^ me too. Better make sure it doesn't rub when you hit a dip at speed.


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - anonymous

[san]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160328/efdc9e3535e91cdde66ad6a3cd985fb3.jpg

The ZHP that I'm picking up this week has the concave wheels. But I like both looks.


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That looks great! Congrats on the nice pick up :thumbsup

[jhs1210]

That looks great! Congrats on the nice pick up :thumbsup

Thank you!

[ZacharyMikel]

Looks like she'll be a winner! Nice work @jhs


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[jhs1210]

Looks like she'll be a winner! Nice work @jhs


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I'm looking forward to getting it soon. Thank you!

[Taliben]

I have the M3 BC Racing coilovers, so they're 8kg front/12kg rear. But remember, I am currently on a 235 tire. Are your fenders rolled?

I'm on bc racing as well, but I was thinking about going to 10k up front. Yeah my fenders are rolled. I think I'm at a similar ride height as you. Just wanted to give you a heads up

[ZacharyMikel]

I'm on bc racing as well, but I was thinking about going to 10k up front. Yeah my fenders are rolled. I think I'm at a similar ride height as you. Just wanted to give you a heads up

Thanks for the info. Do you know what your camber up front is set to?

[Taliben]

Thanks for the info. Do you know what your camber up front is set to?

I need to check the spec sheet but I'm pretty sure it was near -2.3

[ZacharyMikel]

I need to check the spec sheet but I'm pretty sure it was near -2.3

I'll probably have to increase front camber then. I think I'm barely at -2.


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[Taliben]

I'll probably have to increase front camber then. I think I'm barely at -2.


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Yeah we had to put it there to get the tires under the fenders. You could probably bring it in a little, but I would expect something around there.

[ZacharyMikel]

Yeah we had to put it there to get the tires under the fenders. You could probably bring it in a little, but I would expect something around there.

Sounds good. Thanks for the info!

[09mageec]

So i've come across a very good deal on some brand new, "used" BBS LM reps. I would have to pull on them tomorrow...

Sizes are, staggered 18x8, 18x9 (et40 with 7" of backspacing on all 4). Will these clear stock brake setup and suspension??


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[sillieidiot]

No prob!

My one piece of advice would be to run different tires. My Bridgestone's were originally purchased for my stock Style 135 wheels, and they're just a hair too narrow. My next set of tires will be 255/35/18's. The thinner sidewalls should make up for the extra width as far as fitment.

Also, this is the guy on E46F I modeled my specs after: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=890692

Good luck!

Ah I miss that car. Gonna link this to post to him lol He hates it when I bring it up lol

[ZacharyMikel]

Ah I miss that car. Gonna link this to post to him lol He hates it when I bring it up lol

I've followed his M build too, he keeps it clean!

[sillieidiot]

I've followed his M build too, he keeps it clean!

Yep he was pissed at me lol Yeah, there should be a lot of changes coming shortly. At least that's the plan. Summer I think. And when I say a lot, i mean like a shitload lol All he does is amass parts, then do a bunch at once. It is tiring for me. We finished the 330 in like 2 days I think. Just all day/night wrenching. Luckily for this phase it's mostly shit I can't do lol

[BMWCurves]

Updated the original post with my final purchase and links for photos and impressions.

[joeybananaz18]

OP i hope you don't mind me asking this in you thread but it seems like this is a good place to ask any arc-8 fitment questions. I would like to do a square set of 18x 8.5 with an et of 38 on stock suspension. Is 38 too aggressive of an offset or can i get by without having to roll the fenders?

[BMWCurves]

OP i hope you don't mind me asking this in you thread but it seems like this is a good place to ask any arc-8 fitment questions. I would like to do a square set of 18x 8.5 with an et of 38 on stock suspension. Is 38 too aggressive of an offset or can i get by without having to roll the fenders?

I could be wrong, but I believe there are a handful of members here who use 18x8.5" ET38 APEX ARC8s without needing to roll their fenders and do not have rubbing issues.

[Reasoned1]

I just installed a set of 18x8.5 Arc-8's (ET38) with 245/40 PSS' (which have slightly larger diameter than stock) on a 2004 ZHP with stock suspension, and there is PLENTY of room relative to fenders, wheel well, and suspension. The car is definitely lighter on it's feet and handles like a dream. Incidentally, I have a set of 17's (everything else the same except ET40) on my 2005 330xi 6MT (sport), and they, not surprisingly, fit fine too.

I was surprised at how much tramlining is reduced from the standard, staggered setup.

30134

[slater]

I just installed a set of 18x8.5 Arc-8's (ET40) with 245/40 PSS' (which have slightly larger diameter than stock) on a 2004 ZHP with stock suspension, and there is PLENTY of room relative to fenders, wheel well, and suspension. The car is definitely lighter on it's feet and handles like a dream. Incidentally, I have a set of 17's (everything else the same except ET38) on my 2005 330xi 6MT (sport), and they, not surprisingly, fit fine too.

those are either ET38 or ET45, which did you get? they don't make an ET40.

just curious why you went to a 245/40/18? those are almost an entire inch larger than stock.

they look great, by the way! :)

[Reasoned1]

And you are correct--they are ET38. I think I got my 18's and 17's mixed up. I went with 18's because they look better and were on sale ($200 off the set). I wanted a square set-up and didn't quite dare to go with 255's in the front--and I'm glad I didn't because, with ET38, the 245's are perfectly flush with the fender. I wasn't terribly excited about the performance trade-off of going slightly larger, but I wanted to fill the wheel well a bit more, and I have no plans to lower the suspension. I also wanted to offset the error in my speedo, which this largely does. Finally, I'm not a racer, and I live in Vermont, so having a wee bit more tire wall with lightweight wheels seemed prudent to me. All in all, for my situation, I couldn't be happier. By the way, the reduction in unsprung weight of more than 40 pounds has more than made up for the slight increase in diameter--she's definitely quicker than she was.

[slater]

And you are correct--they are ET38. I think I got my 18's and 17's mixed up. I went with 18's because they look better and were on sale ($200 off the set). I wanted a square set-up and didn't quite dare to go with 255's in the front--and I'm glad I didn't because, with ET38, the 245's are perfectly flush with the fender. I wasn't terribly excited about the performance trade-off of going slightly larger, but I wanted to fill the wheel well a bit more, and I have no plans to lower the suspension. I also wanted to offset the error in my speedo, which this largely does. Finally, I'm not a racer, and I live in Vermont, so having a wee bit more tire wall with lightweight wheels seemed prudent to me. All in all, for my situation, I couldn't be happier. By the way, the reduction in unsprung weight of more than 40 pounds has more than made up for the slight increase in diameter--she's definitely quicker than she was.

sounds like good reasoning to me. :) i can definitely attest to wanting the extra sidewall in VT, i spent 10 years traversing its roads.... and i continue to do so when i get the chance!

i have the same wheels and tires, only the tires are 245/35/18's. i will probably be going to a staggered setup of ARC-8s next, with 235/40/18's up front and 265/35/18's in the rear.

[joeybananaz18]

I just installed a set of 18x8.5 Arc-8's (ET38) with 245/40 PSS' (which have slightly larger diameter than stock) on a 2004 ZHP with stock suspension, and there is PLENTY of room relative to fenders, wheel well, and suspension. The car is definitely lighter on it's feet and handles like a dream. Incidentally, I have a set of 17's (everything else the same except ET40) on my 2005 330xi 6MT (sport), and they, not surprisingly, fit fine too.

I was surprised at how much tramlining is reduced from the standard, staggered setup.

30134


I could be wrong, but I believe there are a handful of members here who use 18x8.5" ET38 APEX ARC8s without needing to roll their fenders and do not have rubbing issues.

Thanks for that info guys. I'm coming from an E92 so i need to learn about a whole bunch of new offsets now. Have not picked up anything just yet but its never too soon to plan for new wheels!

[Reasoned1]

Keep an eye out for sales (especially towards Christmas) and group buys.

[FungShui]

Apex expects another group buy around the September/November time frame.

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