What do you think a fair asking price is?

[ZHPWelt]

22092I am Thinking about selling my 2004 ZHP Sedan. It is about to turn 70,000 miles, all OEM just had complete Cooling system replace less the radiator. It is an Automatic Silver Gray with Black Lether, pretty much a stripper car but is near Excellent condition.

I'm not sure how much to ask for the car, Honest help wanted.

Thanks in advance.

[BMWCurves]

I'd need more info to get a good assessment. Packages? Options? Do you have service records? Blemishes? Etc.

[ZHPWelt]

I have service records for the past 3 years I have owned the car. There is a small blemish on the passenger front fender, under the clear bra left over from a Dentless Repair that didn't completely come out smooth since it was on the crease of the fender. Overall the rest of the car is flawless.

I added the rear spoiler to the car, since it had the rear spoiler delete option.

Options per VIN Check:

Type EV53
Model 330i - USA
Development Code E46 (4FL)
Chassis LIM
Steering LL
Doors 4
Engine M54
Displacement 3.00
Power 170
Drivetrain HECK
Transmission AUT
Color Silbergrau Metallic - A08
Upholstery Standardleder/schwarz - N6SW
Production Plant MUNICH
Production Date 2004-03-04

CA Selection Cop Relevant Vehicles Selektion Cop Relevanter Fahrzeuge
205 Automatic Transmission Automatic Getriebe
226 Sports Suspension Settings Sportliche Fahrwerksabstimmung
249 Multi-function For Steering Wheel Multifunktion Fuer Lenkrad
326 Rear Spoiler, Deletion Heckspoiler Entfall
403 Glas Roof, Electric Glasdach, Elektrisch
441 Smokers Package Raucherpaket
459 Seat Adjustm., Electr. W. Memory Sitzverstellung, Elektr.mit Memory
481 Sport Seats F Driver/front Passenger Sportsitze Fuer Fahrer/beifahrer
495 3. Headrest Rear Centre 3. Kopfstuetze Hinten
521 Rain Sensor Regensensor
522 Xenon Light Xenon-licht
534 Automatic Air Conditioning Klimaautomatik
640 Car Telephone Preparation Autotelefonvorbereitung
650 Cd Player Cd-laufwerk
674 Hifi Loudspeaker System Harman Kardon Hifi-system Harman/kardon
692 Cd Changer I-bus Preparation Cd Wechsler I-bus Vorbereitung
710 M Leather Steering Wheel M Lederlenkrad
716 M Aerodynamics Package Ii M Aerodynamikpaket Ii
760 Individual High-gloss Satin Chrome Individual Hochglanz Shadow Line
767 Performance-package Performance-paket
770 Interior Trim Alu Silver Cube Interieurleiste Alu Cube Silber
775 Individual Roof-lining Anthracite Individual Dachhimmel Anthrazit
787 M Lt/aly Wheels Double Sp.135 W Mixed T. M Lm Raeder Doppelsp. 135 M/mischb.
8SP Cop Control Cop Steuerung
818 Main Battery Switch Batteriehauptschalter
925 Shipping Protection Package

[az3579]

Given the options, I'd start it at $13k.

[ZHPWelt]

Thank you for your help

[BMWCurves]

Given the options, I'd start it at $13k.

Agreed, maybe $13.5k if you're patient.

[WOLFN8TR]

Looks Clean! GLWS...[emoji106]

[Simmsled]

Agreed.
However...
If the Vanos and DISA have been addressed, has tires (<4-5 years old) with over 6/32nds, brakes with at least 1/2 pad remaining, low mileage FCABs, and a solid alignment, it would, imho, be worth asking $14k to start.

Beautiful car, OP!

[Bird-Dog]

Guys, could you not have told him $7,500? I'd have bought it for my wife!
j/k

GLWS OP

[BADCLOWN]

if its in excellent shape (which it appears to be in), has all the major maintenance done (some stated done by you, some questioned/listed by others), and doesnt need anything: i think you could pull $15k. but i think thats your cap.

[stephenkirsh]

I think you guys are really over valuing it once you're getting above $13k.

[az3579]

I think you guys are really over valuing it once you're getting above $13k.

This. Our cars simply aren't worth that much plain and simple.

[BMWCurves]

True, but on the other hand there's almost always someone with money to burn.

[ecrabb]

I think you guys are really over valuing it once you're getting above $13k.This. Our cars simply aren't worth that much plain and simple.

I'm not sure I agree. I just paid $14,700 for my vert this summer, then paid anther grand to ship it home, so I've got almost $16k in my car. Others have paid similar prices in just the last six months.

After I got mine, I found out it needs tires and a couple of other things, so I wish I'd gotten it for $14k so I'd had a little more cushion to address some things, but I'm still very happy with my purchase. Granted, I ponied up a little more because it only had 41k miles on it, but still...

Here's the thing... What else are you going to buy for similar money? You could probably find a higher-mileage E90 for similar money, but then it's not an E46. How about a couple year-old Corolla, Sentra or Cobalt?

When I see these cars selling for under $10k, I think it's almost a little ridiculous. I realize they're 10 year old cars, but they're really an incredible car. Considering anything comparable close to new is now pushing $50k, I just think there's a hell of a lot of value in these cars - especially if you're willing to put in a little sweat equity.

Just sayin'.

SC

[BADCLOWN]

I paid 13.5k for my grey car in 2011 with 89k on it, 2 owner, well maintained.

I paid 14.5k for my current in 2014 with 88k on it, single owner, well maintained.


I'm not saying the price I paid is the standard or should be, but I honestly think it's an accurate representation of value, or maybe a HAIR over. BUT, I'd rather pay a little more for the security of buying something that was cared for across the board.

[NoVAphotog]

BUT, I'd rather pay a little more for the security of buying something that was cared for across the board.

+1

[az3579]

When I see these cars selling for under $10k, I think it's almost a little ridiculous. I realize they're 10 year old cars, but they're really an incredible car. Considering anything comparable close to new is now pushing $50k, I just think there's a hell of a lot of value in these cars - especially if you're willing to put in a little sweat equity.



Depreciation is why our cars aren't valuable anymore. Considering most of the ZHP's being sold over $10k are actually priced above book value, I usually think anything above's 10k for something that's worth less is ridiculous. I can understand getting maybe, MAYBE a grand more or two than book value for a non-collector car, but come on... 14-15k? Sometimes 16, 17k? A typical book value for an 80k-mile ZHP, 2005 sedan with ALL the options ticked and a 6-speed in the most resellable color (silver) is valued at just above $10k in the best condition it can possibly be in, which is a condition most 80k-mile ZHPs do not meet.

So, from an actual value perspective, a car is NOT worth "what someone's willing to pay for it". If you pay that much for it and don't mind, that's great; the rest of us who seek fair pricing will move on.

[NYRhockey]

Depreciation is why our cars aren't valuable anymore. Considering most of the ZHP's being sold over $10k are actually priced above book value, I usually think anything above's 10k for something that's worth less is ridiculous. I can understand getting maybe, MAYBE a grand more or two than book value for a non-collector car, but come on... 14-15k? Sometimes 16, 17k? A typical book value for an 80k-mile ZHP, 2005 sedan with ALL the options ticked and a 6-speed in the most resellable color (silver) is valued at just above $10k in the best condition it can possibly be in, which is a condition most 80k-mile ZHPs do not meet.

So, from an actual value perspective, a car is NOT worth "what someone's willing to pay for it". If you pay that much for it and don't mind, that's great; the rest of us who seek fair pricing will move on.

There have been many ZHP's with >100K on them post for =/>$10K so it is reasonable to expect a 70K car in great shape to go for a few grand more than that. Granted i don't know what those >100K ZHP's ultimately sell/sold for, but i think $14-$15K starting ask for this car is fair, expecting to settle in the $13-$14K range. A 70K ZHP @ EAG goes for almost $20K and a year or so ago we saw that '03 with 46K on it sell for close to $18K.

[ecrabb]

Depreciation is why our cars aren't valuable anymore. Considering most of the ZHP's being sold over $10k are actually priced above book value, I usually think anything above's 10k for something that's worth less is ridiculous. I can understand getting maybe, MAYBE a grand more or two than book value for a non-collector car, but come on... 14-15k? Sometimes 16, 17k? A typical book value for an 80k-mile ZHP, 2005 sedan with ALL the options ticked and a 6-speed in the most resellable color (silver) is valued at just above $10k in the best condition it can possibly be in, which is a condition most 80k-mile ZHPs do not meet.
Of course depreciation affects the value. But, depreciation isn't a constant, and the value of a car is very much variable depending on a host of factors, some of which book value just doesn't take into account. This is especially true when you're talking about an enthusiast car like a ZHP. No, it's not an M3, but some of the same factors are in play, just to a lesser degree. Book value becomes less and less relevant the less "commodity" is a car. If we're talking about a Toyota Camry, a Ford Fusion or a Nissan Altima, then book value is glaringly relevant. There are 37 more just like the one the seller is selling, so it's sort of a buyer's market in a sense. A ZHP? That's clean with low miles? And service records? Not so much. The reason is what others have already alluded to. The desirability of a car, how easy they are to find, and how well-maintained the car is all affect the price and book simply doesn't factor all that. You may be able to find a car for below "book", but I can tell you it probably won't be a car I'll want, unless you just get luck of course.

In my case, my vert booked out around $13,275 when I bought it. Believe me... If there would have been a single car with the miles and condition I wanted at a price like that, I would have bought it in a second. But, there wasn't. I scoured postings daily for over a month. When I found mine listed for $14,900 (which coincidentially was right at retail price), I was hesitant, but the more I thought about it, the more it made sense to buy a really clean low-miles car I'd be happy with. Could I have found a cheaper car? Absolutely! But, ultimately that would have meant sacrificing on the miles and the condition of the car. Stuff like pitted windshield, rock-chipped hood, worn bolsters, etc. My car has none of that. It literally looks nicer than most people's two-year old cars. I was disappointed that I forgot to ask specifics about tire condition and it does need tires. So, I did probably overpay a little and would have felt a little better with another $500 in the kitty, but I'm still overall very satisfied with the car and what I paid for it.


So, from an actual value perspective, a car is NOT worth "what someone's willing to pay for it". If you pay that much for it and don't mind, that's great; the rest of us who seek fair pricing will move on.
On this we couldn't disagree more. Of course a car is worth what people are willing to pay for it. By definition. "Book" is just a number on a piece of paper - a a guess, a rough guess even, and it can be wildly inaccurate. It's a guide, and a rough one at that. In fact, when it comes to anything remotely "collector" or "enthusiast", book value is classically - and usually significantly - inaccurate.

Here's how much crack KBB is on... I just booked my car out and it says dealer retail is $10,917. That compares to $14,831 on about June 1. So, you'd look at that and try to convince me my car has depreciated $3914 in five months. Part of it is seasonal... It's a vert, and I'm comparing June to October. But, somehow KBB is suggesting that my car is somehow depreciating faster at 10 years old than when it was brand new. That's more than $800/mo! At this rate, it'll be zero in a couple of years. See? "Book" price in this case is complete bullshit and it gets to be more and more bullshit the older the car gets and the more special/desirable it is.

Sorry for the long post.

Cheers,
SC

[slater]

ecrabb - spot on, man.

BP -

i'm sure there are some of us here for different reasons, but at my age and for my needs and wants (and price range) this car does it all, and satisfies my urge to drive a rare and unique machine.

our cars offer such a well-rounded package as a sporting, simple, comfortable - even utilitarian - every-day car.

that said, the market is very different for vehicles like that. they are in an enthusiast market now and cannot be compared to a high-production automobile in terms of "value for a 10-year old car with xxxxxx miles on it." someone who buys a premium example of a ZHP (low- or high-mileage car that's been cared for), is likely someone who knows what they want and sees the value in paying a premium for it, and is not going to be haggling or sweating $1000 here or there for prices. the best examples should fetch appropriate prices. and for enthusiast cars, there is no real high or low point, there's only an "is this worth it to me" point. my $0.02.

i paid a steal of a price for my car, but i hunt for these things, and i enjoy that. would i sell it for a lot more? absolutely, mostly because i've improved/restored it a great deal and would price it accordingly - if someone wanted what i was selling, they'd pay what i was asking for it. but would i sell it? not likely. :)

:cheers

peter