Manual Vs Auto

[tnoobz14]

So currently I have an Alpine White Zhp at 99,000 miles with an Auto transmission. My friend just replaced his auto with a manual in his 2001 740i by himself(he has a lift and everything needed). I have thought about having him help me change mine but don't know if it is worth the work/money. Basically, do you think it would increase the value of the car much or no? I know most people looking for Zhps want a manual one and therefore are likely willing to pay a little more. I just don't want to do all the work if it is going to really hurt me in the long run. Any input is appreciated. Thanks

[Vas]

Not worth it. If you want a manual car, sell the auto and get a manual one.

[NoVAphotog]

I know most people looking for Zhps want a manual one and therefore are likely willing to pay a little more. I just don't want to do all the work if it is going to really hurt me in the long run. Any input is appreciated. Thanks

Unless you are keeping the car for yourself to enjoy, no one looking for a ZHP is going to want one that differs significantly from the original build sheet. A lot of folks who do swaps, whether it's interiors or transmissions are keeping their cars for the long haul. Significant mods like these do not add value regardless of what people are looking for. Sell the auto and buy a manual.

[BMWCurves]

Unless you are keeping the car for yourself to enjoy, no one looking for a ZHP is going to want one that differs significantly from the original build sheet. A lot of folks who do swaps, whether it's interiors or transmissions are keeping their cars for the long haul. Significant mods like these do not add value regardless of what people are looking for. Sell the auto and buy a manual.

+1

[johnrando]

+1

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[ryankokesh]

Yup


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[Sockethead]

I agree too.

[cakM3]

Unless you are keeping the car for yourself to enjoy, no one looking for a ZHP is going to want one that differs significantly from the original build sheet. A lot of folks who do swaps, whether it's interiors or transmissions are keeping their cars for the long haul. Significant mods like these do not add value regardless of what people are looking for. Sell the auto and buy a manual.

What Dan said here...

[Simmsled]

First, ask yourself why you want a manual in the first place...
BMW could have made the Steptronic ZHP an 'also ran'.
Instead, they went the extra mile to upgrade the Step to make it worthy of the rest of its "Performance Package".
They put the 3.64 diff with the finned diff cooler in there, and they upgraded the shift programming.
I have a 330i ZSP Step and a 330i ZHP Step and the shift program is definitely NOT as aggressive as the ZHP's. What you would think are damn near the same, are not at all. Completely different animals.
I would argue that the performance difference between a properly driven Step, and a properly driven manual is really only a factor when you hit the track. AND, the performance difference is a LOT closer than you'd ever expect.
I own a manual ZHP as well.

[stephenkirsh]

I've had two auto e46s, in addition to driving my dad's zsp auto.

There's no difference in the shift programming in any way, other than a higher red line in the ZHP.

The difference you might be experiencing is a ZF vs GM transmission.

[az3579]

I would argue that the performance difference between a properly driven Step, and a properly driven manual is really only a factor when you hit the track. AND, the performance difference is a LOT closer than you'd ever expect.

So now we're getting into 'usage case' differences. Off the line, a manual will always win (with proper technique), and since there's no power difference between the two and the fact that the auto ultimately means the power isn't put down as effectively, it will never catch up once behind unless the manual driver misses a shift.

So, in essence, a properly launched manual will always win, potentially by a decent margin depending on driver skill. An improperly launched manual will not win. It definitely is a case of driver skill and scenario, but when compared apples to apples with competent drivers, the manual has a noticeable advantage.

With that said, the overall difference will not be night and day (like a 911 version a 325i); the overall result will probably be less than a second apart over the course of a quarter mile. So, it all depends on what you want to use the car for.

For auto-x, an auto is unacceptable if you plan on being competitive, because you're giving away valuable time at the start line since you can't get as good of a launch. In ANY other scenario, however, the difference between the two is negligible.

In terms of pure shift speed in a scenario where let's say you're on a time attack around the track, the manual is still better because you can shift it faster if you put a little effort into it. It'll be a very small difference, but in a time attack, every millisecond counts.

Any street scenario that doesn't involve stop light racing is pretty much a toss-up between the two, and usually gives a nod to the auto in terms of overall drivability. The autos shift smoother under normal driving conditions, and around town, nobody is going to be speed shifting a manual, so overall around town an auto is peppier if you have a heavy foot. Let's also not forget about how much easier it is to take off at a light while, let's say, making a left. You don't have to worry about breaking traction, which could cause a problem when there's oncoming traffic, allowing you to quickly zip through without all the jerkiness a manual requires for a "quick" getaway.


They both have their advantages. For TIMED performance driving, get a manual. For anything else, an auto is just as good.




I have driven a Step ZHP and was perfectly fine with its performance, just for point of view. I like the short 2nd gear because it allows for some quicker acceleration. I have not driven a regular 330 automatic, so I can't compare.

[stephenkirsh]

Yea for the record, I track and autox my ZHP and punch well above my car's class, however, it's all for fun and not SCCA level of competition, even if there is timing and awards.

[Simmsled]

I've had two auto e46s, in addition to driving my dad's zsp auto.

There's no difference in the shift programming in any way, other than a higher red line in the ZHP.

The difference you might be experiencing is a ZF vs GM transmission.

I respect your opinion, but mine differs from yours.

You likely don't know this, so I'll fill in the blanks...
There are 2 different part numbers for the transmission computer. One specifically for ZHP pkg :
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=EV53-USA-04-2004-E46-BMW-330i&diagId=24_0886
The final drive is different from every other Steptronic E46 BMW made.
The upshift and downshift points are different per given speed/yaw angle/braking input

I have driven both of my Steptronics that have 'learned' my driving algorithm, I'm the only one that drives them, back to back with the sole intent of looking for differences.

The ZHP programming holds a gear longer, will downshift at higher RPM with given steering/brake input.
Its tolerance to upshift during hard cornering is much higher.

Different final drive ratio
Different engine red line
Different part number

Different programming.

[stephenkirsh]

Have you checked to see which transmissions they have?


I only drive my autos in manual mode, in which there is no "learning" for the computer to do. I tell it to do what when I want it. Therefore, there's no differences between ZHP and zsp.

[ELCID86]

Not worth it. If you want a manual car, sell the auto and get a manual one.

+1


Thumbs, iPhone, TaT.

[ELCID86]

I respect your opinion, but mine differs from yours.

You likely don't know this, so I'll fill in the blanks...
There are 2 different part numbers for the transmission computer. One specifically for ZHP pkg :
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=EV53-USA-04-2004-E46-BMW-330i&diagId=24_0886
The final drive is different from every other Steptronic E46 BMW made.
The upshift and downshift points are different per given speed/yaw angle/braking input

I have driven both of my Steptronics that have 'learned' my driving algorithm, I'm the only one that drives them, back to back with the sole intent of looking for differences.

The ZHP programming holds a gear longer, will downshift at higher RPM with given steering/brake input.
Its tolerance to upshift during hard cornering is much higher.

Different final drive ratio
Different engine red line
Different part number

Different programming.

:respect


Thumbs, iPhone, TaT.

[slater]

Have you checked to see which transmissions they have?


I only drive my autos in manual mode, in which there is no "learning" for the computer to do. I tell it to do what when I want it. Therefore, there's no differences between ZHP and zsp.

except final drive and redline... ;)

[Alikessu]

LoL
don't know about you guys, but I feel much younger with the Manual.... my own personal Humble opinion [emoji16]


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[Alikessu]

and I have noticed in the last past
10 days of owning the Manual
my speed is always around 80-90 oops....


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[az3579]

and I have noticed in the last past
10 days of owning the Manual
my speed is always around 80-90 oops....


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Odd you say that because I tend to drive a lot more briskly with an automatic...

[Alikessu]

I guess I have been driving automatics for the past ten years so that's why it feels nice for a change. [emoji6]


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[Alikessu]

nothing against Automatics of course ...

[TigerTater]

This is the thread I was looking for! I'm in the dilemma too. I love my step ZHP but always drive in Manual mode. And it's fun. I'd like to have a 6mt but I fear there's no way for me to sell my well cared for and upgraded ZHP and get into something comparable in 6mt trim. It would def mean coming out of pocket likely 2-4K to switch. Is it worth that ? Not sure.

[WOLFN8TR]

This is the thread I was looking for! I'm in the dilemma too. I love my step ZHP but always drive in Manual mode. And it's fun. I'd like to have a 6mt but I fear there's no way for me to sell my well cared for and upgraded ZHP and get into something comparable in 6mt trim. It would def mean coming out of pocket likely 2-4K to switch. Is it worth that ? Not sure.

I had a Step ZHP and drove it the same way, never left it in Auto. The best mod I did to it was the Sprint Booster. If you don't have one you should consider it.

[johnrando]

Only you can answer that, as that's a big step (no pun intended). But, if you drive it everyday, it might be worth it depending on what you are looking for. To enhance my STEP driving experience, I added paddle shifters, the sprint booster, and the Dinan STEP s/w. That makes it much more fun to drive.

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[sillieidiot]

well if you're not planning to sell your car and you want the manual. then do the swap.