Help with Suspension Refresh at 50k miles/10 years

[BMWCurves]

NOTE: for those looking to find my final parts list, scroll down a bit through this first post.

I'm really new to suspension work and am a little overwhelmed with the loads of information and options available so I'm hoping someone can help me narrow down some things or at least point me in the right direction. Later this summer I plan to swap out my original shocks and struts for Koni Yellows (Sport). The original shocks and struts have only 50k miles on them but they've been on there for 10 years and it seems that a fair number of people believe that the original Sachs shocks/struts are only good for 40-50k miles so I'm guessing they're due to be changed anyways. My current plan:


Koni Yellow (Sport) shocks and struts (on sale for $498 from Race Consulting Agency)
Keep using the original springs
BMW Strut tower reinforcement plates (part no. 51717036781)
Rogue Engineering Rear Shock Mounts (http://www.rogueengineering.com/rogue/S_BUSH/RSM.html)

Now for the questions! First, since I'm only at 50k miles but 10 years on original equipment, I'm not sure what else I should replace while I'm doing the above parts. Should I assume I should also replace the following:


Strut mounts
Front and rear bump stops
Upper and lower spring pads
Dust boots (do these come with the Konis)?

If so, are there specific brands I should look for, or is OEM sufficient? Is there anything I am missing? I plan to do various bushings later and will post back here with questions about those.

My other question is about the Koni shocks. Currently a whole set can be had for $498 shipped from Race Consulting Agency thanks to a tip from FlyRide here (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?647-The-Deal-Thread-Save-Money&p=438908#post438908). However, I have had my eye on TC Kline's modified Koni shocks (link: http://www.tcklineracing.com/webdocs/Items/Details30.cfm) that are externally adjustable like Koni's standard front struts but they're 2.7x more expensive than the normal Koni rear shocks. So my questions are:


Are there other brands that modify Koni Yellows like TC Kline? I remember people talking about Ground Control but they don't seem to carry modified Konis other than full coilover kits.
If the TC Kline shock fails/breaks, can they be repaired under Koni's warranty?
Do I have to cut up my trunk liner/carpet to get the TC Kline shocks to fit?

$264 for the TC Kline vs $98 is a large premium to pay for rear shocks, one I would only consider if I don't have to cut up my trunk carpet/liner and knew that if the shocks failed they could be repaired/replaced by Koni.

All that said any info or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

EDIT:
For those not wanting to wade through the pages of responses, below is the finalized list of parts that I ended up using for a relatively stock suspension refresh:


Koni Sport (Yellows) struts (8741-1390RSPORT [front right], 8741-1390LSPORT [front left]) and shocks [2x 8040-1271SPORT])
Rogue Engineering rear shock mounts (RSM) (no part number)
Strut tower reinforcement plates (2x) (51717036781)
Front strut mount (2x) (31336752735) (FCP Euro)
Front spring pads (2x) (Upper: 31331091867, Lower: 31331096664)
Rear spring pads (2x) (Upper: 33531136385, Lower: 33531094518)
Bump stops (2x) (Front: 31306757046, Rear: 33506757047)
Dust boots (2x) (Front: 31331094749, Rear: 33521136283)
Z4M Front Control Arm Bushing (FCAB) (Left: 31107836862, Right: 31107836863)
Z4M Rear Trailing Arm Bushing (RTAB) (2x) (33326770817)
Hex bolt w/ washer for FCABs (4x) (33306760652)
Locking nuts for strut mounts (6x) (31316769731)

Total cost (purchased June 2015): $1,002.78. Cost broken down by part can be found here (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?16182-Help-with-Suspension-Refresh-at-50k-miles-10-years&p=440539#post440539)

Notes:

This list assumes you reuse your stock ZHP springs
If you want a top-adjustable Koni Sport rear shock, you can use the ones meant for the Porsche 911 (part no. 82101159SPORT). This means the shocks won't have to be removed to be adjusted. I'm not 100% if any modifications are necessary to get the shock to fit or not.
I chose Z4M front control arm bushings (FCABs) because they are solid rubber so they should last longer, and offer slightly increased caster (slight increase in straight-line stability, slight increased turn-in effort). Many members here have them and like them and have had no issues other than the aesthetic "issue" of the front wheels being pushed slightly forward in the wheel well.
The strut mounts I purchased were by Lemförder because they were far cheaper than BMW Original and Dane vouched for their build quality.
As far as I know the hex bolts (33306760652) and locking nuts (31316769731) are not strictly necessary. You can (I think) just use Loctite on the hex bolts and just reuse the locking nuts. I chose to get both since they were relatively cheap (~$15 total) and one of those "while you're in there" sort of things.
According to the guide by Mango on E46Fanatics about suspension refresh items (link:http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=932561), you should replace the reinforcement plate bolts (8x 31106772199). I opted not to, but definitely something to consider. On the whole the guide was very helpful.
I opted to not do the rear trailing arm bushings (RTABs) with this refresh until I hear back from Peter (username: slater) with his opinions on the Bimmerworld sealed spherical RTABs he purchased. If not those, then I plan to purchase OEM M3 or Z4M RTABs with limiters, probably from Vorshlag (link: http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_4_26&products_id=515). EDIT: I ended up not waiting on slater (Peter) and purchased the Z4M RTABs (part no. 33326770817) with Vorshlag limiters. I have had no issues and like them so far.
Bimmerworld sealed spherical RTABs: if you jump to post #56 (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?16182-Help-with-Suspension-Refresh-at-50k-miles-10-years&p=455656#post455656) there's a pretty lengthy discussion about them compared to rubber and poly RTABs. Pictures of the spherical RTABs can be found here (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?16182-Help-with-Suspension-Refresh-at-50k-miles-10-years&p=456386#post456386) The spherical RTABs can be purchased here (http://www.custom-performance.net/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=1558&idcategory=261).
I originally had the rear bump stops as 33531138109 but those are supposedly for lowered suspensions which is not the case for me since I will be reusing my stock ZHP springs.
I did not include or replace the "upper spring pocket with spacer" (item 7, here: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=BD53-USA-02-2005-E46-BMW-330Ci&diagId=31_0408, part no. 31326769667) because no one mentioned I should nor did it seem necessary.
Install notes can be found in my project thread here for the rear shocks (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?15714-William-s-330Ci-ZHP-Maintenance-and-Project-Thread&p=449113#post449113) and here for the front struts (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?15714-William-s-330Ci-ZHP-Maintenance-and-Project-Thread&p=449192#post449192)

Additional parts for a suspension refresh to consider:
Note: I have not purchased nor installed these parts, but they are the likely parts I would use if I were to replace these parts.

Front sway bar end links (2x) (31356780847)
Rear sway bar end links (2x) (33551094619)
Front sway bar bushing (2x) (33556751269)
Rear sway bar bushing (2x) (33551138104)
M3 Rear outer upper and lower ball joints (4x) (33306852895)
Front control arms (there is some confusion on part numbers: Link (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?11957-The-Random-E46-ZHP-Question-Thread&p=528440#post528440))

Additional Links:

My thread discussing alternative wheel options (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?16922-Apex-ARC8-17-quot-vs-18-quot-Offset-and-Tire-Size-Questions)
My thread on maintenance spreadsheets and available templates (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?18305-Maintenance-Spreadsheets-Show-Us-Yours!)

EDIT 2: 09/21/2015
I now have everything installed and had an alignment done (FCABs and RTABs w/ limiters installed by an indy). I used Shawn's (username: ELCID86) and Daniel's (username: NoVAphotog) previous alignment numbers to get a rough estimate of where they should be. Initial thoughts are the car feels great! The nose wants to dive into corners, the rear feels very planted when you step on the throttle out of the bends, and it feels very stable in a straight line at high speed. I would highly suggest this setup for anyone wanting to keep their car's ride comfortable but still agile. For a little more of a review on the feel of the car post-refresh and some installation advice, click here (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?16182-Help-with-Suspension-Refresh-at-50k-miles-10-years&p=455334#post455334).

For those worried about the look of added caster from the Z4M FCABs, below is what my car looks like with them. You will notice the wheel sits ever so slightly forward in the wheel well but you can barely notice it. It doesn't bother me and I like things to match up and be symmetrical.

http://i.imgur.com/yNoEoWu.jpg

[Just_George]

Just ordered (minutes ago) a set of Koni FSDs for the ZHP. I put the Koni Sports ('yellows') on my 330Ci last year and I really like them, but want to try the FSDs this time around. I'm of the opinion that you should definitely change the strut mounts and bump stops...you don't want to have to take it all apart again if one of those fails after installing the new struts! I also think the reinforcement plates are a good idea - did them all the way around on the Ci and will do the same with the ZHP. The Rogue Engineering mounts are nice, but pricey...can't decide if I want to go there. Koni struts do NOT come with dust boots, so not a bad idea to buy new ones. I think I'll replace the spring pads this time around. I didn't on the other car and don't think it's the end of the world, but I do kinda wish I had done it. As far as brands for things like strut mounts, I've had good luck with Meyle...

[BMWCurves]

Hmm...I'm leaning that I should replace all those ancillary parts (second list) as well so I have peace of mind. You like Meyle? Any reason why them over BMW OEM for the ancillary parts?

[BMWCurves]

Thoughts on the Koni Adjustable Rear Shock from Dinan (link: http://www.dinancars.com/product/d140-0465-koni-adjustable-rear-shock-for-bmw-3-series-e46-2/) as a far cheaper alternative to the TC Kline or the standard Koni Yellows? Seems like a perfectly good option compared to the TC Kline. Even if the valving is different, would it matter much between these in the rear and regular Koni Yellows in the front?

[Vas]

Do you plan to replace the shocks again in 50k? You could probably just replace the shocks/struts and add the reinforcement plates to the front. Then at 100k due a complete overhaul again.

OR

Do the Koni Yellows for $498, new upper and lower spring pads for the front and rear, rear shock mounts, rear shock mount gaskets, upper front reinforcement plates and strut mounts, and dust boots with bumpstops. And not have to worry about it for another 100k.

[Hermes]

What are your plans for how you will use the car?

[BMWCurves]

Do you plan to replace the shocks again in 50k? You could probably just replace the shocks/struts and add the reinforcement plates to the front. Then at 100k due a complete overhaul again.

OR

Do the Koni Yellows for $498, new upper and lower spring pads for the front and rear, rear shock mounts, rear shock mount gaskets, upper front reinforcement plates and strut mounts, and dust boots with bumpstops. And not have to worry about it for another 100k.

Vas,

I think I'm leaning toward your second option. I'd rather just replace it all and have peace of mind since those parts aren't too expensive in the scheme of things. I'm just trying to figure out:

1. Do I have all the necessary parts listed for a refresh (not including bushings that I'll do later) and what brands I should use for those ancillary parts?
2. I'm not sure if it's a smart idea to get the TC Kline or Dinan rear shocks that are externally adjustable because I can't tell if they're covered by Koni's normal warranty since they are modified by these third parties. Also, if either the Dinan or the TC Kline shock is revalved, I don't know how that will affect handling with stock Koni Yellows up front i.e. can the externally adjustable rear shocks by these companies be adjusted to have similar rebound as the regular Koni front struts?

Follow up question that you raised, Rogue Engineering lists their rear shock mounts as coming with the following:

Two (2) Rogue Engineering 6061-T6 CNC, Anodized Rear Shock Mounts
Four (4) Shore A 60 Rubber Bushings (stiffer TRACK versions available at extra cost)
Two (2) 303 Stainless Steel Bushing Spacers (to be used with standard 10mm rear shocks, remove these for 12mm)
Four (4) 303 Stainless Steel Washers (2 required per mount)
Four (4) Yellow Zinc plated M8 serrated lock nuts
Two (2) Shock Tower Reinforcement Assemblies (with 10.9 hardware welded)
Two (2) factory gaskets

In your second list you mentioned "rear shock mount gaskets," which I didn't have in my list. From the Rogue Engineering list above, it says "two (2) factory gaskets," I assume those are the same (bolded above)? I just want to make sure that if I got the Rogue Engineering RSMs I shouldn't order separate gaskets.

Thanks for all your help!

EDIT:


What are your plans for how you will use the car?

I plan to use it for pretty much street use only with maybe 1-2 driving events a year max. A friend's step father is a driving instructor at Portland International Raceway and he's always offered to take me out there on open track days so I'm finally hoping to take him up on his offers.

[slater]

on top of what vas said for his 'second option', i'd add in RTABs and FCABs if you haven't replaced them yet. also, you might not need to replace the front strut mounts, they seem pretty robust.

peter

[BMWCurves]

on top of what vas said for his 'second option', i'd add in RTABs and FCABs if you haven't replaced them yet. also, you might not need to replace the front strut mounts, they seem pretty robust.

peter

Exactly the info I'm looking for, I hear so much differing info when I try and look over suspension parts through Google. I trust you guys a lot more. Thanks!

Also, I hear a lot about RTAB limiters. Is that something I need or is it more for a non-street application?

[slater]

Exactly the info I'm looking for, I hear so much differing info when I try and look over suspension parts through Google. I trust you guys a lot more. Thanks!

Also, I hear a lot about RTAB limiters. Is that something I need or is it more for a non-street application?

it's fine for street use. i went with the powerflex poly RTABs and while they are better than worn OEM bushings, ultimately they're not the correct solution, as they do not allow full multi-axis articulation of the trailing arm (neither does rubber, but it allows more than poly does).

i've just recently picked up a set of bimmerworld sealed spherical RTABs that i personally think will be the best solution on the market for RTABs. they allow correct articulation of the arms, have a sealed OEM bearing (for longevity), and should be quiet with zero ride penalties. excited to install them.

peter

[Vas]

Honestly I would just do the complete set of Koni yellows from the same place. They would be covered under warranty from Koni. If anything happened, you can deal directly with them.

As far as the parts, you can go OE BMW or OEM. Prices are not that drastic. I think I spent under $200 for everything from the BMW Mini Parts store without the shocks and rear shock mounts. You can check out my project thread under Sketchi if you want.

And if you do the Rouge mounts, they do come with gaskets. I was just saying you will need them if you buy another brand of mounts.

As far as FCAB and RTAB, you can go with rubber units or go Poly. If you go with the rubber RTAB, limiters would be a good idea. Poly units do not require them to be used.

[BMWCurves]

it's fine for street use. i went with the powerflex poly RTABs and while they are better than worn OEM bushings, ultimately they're not the correct solution, as they do not allow full multi-axis articulation of the trailing arm (neither does rubber, but it allows more than poly does).

i've just recently picked up a set of bimmerworld sealed spherical RTABs that i personally think will be the best solution on the market for RTABs. they allow correct articulation of the arms, have a sealed OEM bearing (for longevity), and should be quiet with zero ride penalties. excited to install them.

peter

Cool info. Just so I'm clear, are RTAB limiters worth getting? I'd be interested to hear what you think of Bimmerworld's ssealed spherical RTABs. I didn't realize the rear trailing arm was a multi-axis pivot point. I assumed it was only vertical. Thanks for the info!

EDIT:

Honestly I would just do the complete set of Koni yellows from the same place. They would be covered under warranty from Koni. If anything happened, you can deal directly with them.

As far as the parts, you can go OE BMW or OEM. Prices are not that drastic. I think I spent under $200 for everything from the BMW Mini Parts store without the shocks and rear shock mounts. You can check out my project thread under Sketchi if you want.

And if you do the Rouge mounts, they do come with gaskets. I was just saying you will need them if you buy another brand of mounts.

As far as FCAB and RTAB, you can go with rubber units or go Poly. If you go with the rubber RTAB, limiters would be a good idea. Poly units do not require them to be used.

Thank you both! I think I'll just go ahead and get the $498 Konis, keep my springs, do refresh of all the ancillary components and then do the FCABs (that's a whole debate) and RTABs (sounds like OEM rubber with limiters).

[slater]

Cool info. Just so I'm clear, are RTAB limiters worth getting? I'd be interested to hear what you think of Bimmerworld's ssealed spherical RTABs. I didn't realize the rear trailing arm was a multi-axis pivot point. I assumed it was only vertical. Thanks for the info!

EDIT:


Thank you both! I think I'll just go ahead and get the $498 Konis, keep my springs, do refresh of all the ancillary components and then do the FCABs (that's a whole debate) and RTABs (sounds like OEM rubber with limiters).

sounds like a good plan. for FCABs i run poly (as does vas i believe), and while some folks say there's an NVH increase - i have not noticed one, and of all folks i think i would, as i'm incredibly sensitive to NVH. i DO notice much-improved steering response. well worth doing in my opinion (plus they last longer).

peter

[NoVAphotog]

Subscribed.

Curious to your thoughts before and after the refresh. I'm at 73k and 10 years so definitely been on the radar as well. I drove two cars over the weekend with the Koni Yellows and both felt great.

[san]

I will have to do this soon as well... I am also leaning towards the koni yellow, especially for the price...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[slater]

Subscribed.

Curious to your thoughts before and after the refresh. I'm at 73k and 10 years so definitely been on the radar as well. I drove two cars over the weekend with the Koni Yellows and both felt great.

nice, daniel - did you note the damper settings?



I will have to do this soon as well... I am also leaning towards the koni yellow, especially for the price...

yep, konis are 25% off until august!

peter

[BMWCurves]

sounds like a good plan. for FCABs i run poly (as does vas i believe), and while some folks say there's an NVH increase - i have not noticed one, and of all folks i think i would, as i'm incredibly sensitive to NVH. i DO notice much-improved steering response. well worth doing in my opinion (plus they last longer).

peter

Definitely something to consider. What brand do you run for your polyurethane FCABs? I was considering the Z4M FCABs since a lot of people seem to like theirs with the added positive castor although I haven't heard too much in the way of downsides. I assume like with most suspension work it will need an alignment afterwards. But at $150 for both already pressed into the FCAB mounts, it doesn't seem too bad (BMW part no. 31107836862 [left], 31107836863 [right]). I can't find as much info about OEM E46 RTABs vs. Z4M RTABs. Would the Z4M RTABS fit on our cars and they solid rubber like the FCABs? Vorshlag seems to think so according to this article: http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_4_26&products_id=515. They list two items at the top and I'm not sure which is supposed to be used.


Subscribed.

Curious to your thoughts before and after the refresh. I'm at 73k and 10 years so definitely been on the radar as well. I drove two cars over the weekend with the Koni Yellows and both felt great.

I'll let you know once I get everything together and have it installed! As I said, I don't know much about suspension work beyond basic theory so it'll be a learning experience.


nice, daniel - did you note the damper settings?

+1 I'd be interested as well. Reading around it seems the shocks/struts soften and settle a bit after in the first 1,000 miles so some people do one full turn and endure the stiffer setting until it softens while others do set it to something lower like half a turn and then dial it up after that same period.


yep, konis are 25% off until august!

Yup, 25% off at most retailers since I think it's a Koni special. The sale at Race Consulting Agency I listed is even cheaper than 25% off, or at least cheaper than TireRack's 25% off sale. Links below to the RCA sale:

Left strut (8741-1390RSPORT): http://www.raceconsultingagency.com/koni/koni-shock-sport-series/87411390lsport/i-101112.aspx
Right strut (part no. 8741-1390LSPORT): http://www.raceconsultingagency.com/koni/koni-shock-sport-series/87411390rsport/i-101113.aspx
Rear shock (part no. 8040-1271SPORT [2x]): http://www.raceconsultingagency.com/koni/koni-shock-sport-series/80401271sport/i-101065.aspx

[slater]

Definitely something to consider. What brand do you run for your polyurethane FCABs? I was considering the Z4M FCABs since a lot of people seem to like theirs with the added positive castor although I haven't heard too much in the way of downsides. I assume like with most suspension work it will need an alignment afterwards. But at $150 for both already pressed into the FCAB mounts, it doesn't seem too bad (BMW part no. 31107836862 [left], 31107836863 [right]). I can't find as much info about OEM E46 RTABs vs. Z4M RTABs. Would the Z4M RTABS fit on our cars and they solid rubber like the FCABs? Vorshlag seems to think so according to this article: http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_4_26&products_id=515. They list two items at the top and I'm not sure which is supposed to be used.

i've not used the Z4M FCABs but they appear to be a good alternative - the only downside i can see is that they do move the wheel further forward in the wheel well, which might look a bit off. otherwise they increase caster and that's a good thing.



I'll let you know once I get everything together and have it installed! As I said, I don't know much about suspension work beyond basic theory so it'll be a learning experience.

the rear shocks on these cars are absolutely cake to replace - you'll be able to do it in 30mins with basic hand tools.

i haven't tackled the fronts yet but they also look dirt simple. you will need a spring compressor, though.


peter

[anandoc]

i've not used the Z4M FCABs but they appear to be a good alternative - the only downside i can see is that they do move the wheel further forward in the wheel well, which might look a bit off. otherwise they increase caster and that's a good thing.


I used Z4M FCABs when I got my front suspension refreshed in March. They are a direct plug and play and has given me increased castor (5.9 degrees). Handling feels great and the steering feels tight!

[NoVAphotog]

I used Z4M FCABs when I got my front suspension refreshed in March. They are a direct plug and play and has given me increased castor (5.9 degrees). Handling feels great and the steering feels tight!

Can you post some pictures of the wheels in the wheel well? Is the change in caster really that noticeable from a "looks" standpoint?

[anandoc]

Can you post some pictures of the wheels in the wheel well? Is the change in caster really that noticeable from a "looks" standpoint?

Here is what she looks like. To be honest I don't see much a difference in the wheel position within the wheel well.

http://i.imgur.com/mCIjldR.jpg?1

[BMWCurves]

i've not used the Z4M FCABs but they appear to be a good alternative - the only downside i can see is that they do move the wheel further forward in the wheel well, which might look a bit off. otherwise they increase caster and that's a good thing.

Okay, sounds good. Thanks for all your help! Any idea with regard to the Z4M RTABs? I don't know a whole lot about them other than that article I referenced (link: http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_4_26&products_id=515)


the rear shocks on these cars are absolutely cake to replace - you'll be able to do it in 30mins with basic hand tools.

i haven't tackled the fronts yet but they also look dirt simple. you will need a spring compressor, though.

Yeah, the rear shocks look pretty straight forward to me. I don't have a bushing tool so I don't know if I'll tackle the RTABs myself or not. FCABs don't look too hard to do either. As you say, the front struts may be a little more involved. I think my father has spring compressors laying around but if not I may just leave it to an indy.


I used Z4M FCABs when I got my front suspension refreshed in March. They are a direct plug and play and has given me increased castor (5.9 degrees). Handling feels great and the steering feels tight!

Nice. Any downsides you've had so far? Any other things you have noticed?


Here is what she looks like. To be honest I don't see much a difference in the wheel position within the wheel well.

You're right, I can't tell a whole lot of difference from the photo. I wouldn't think it would move the wheel very far forward.

[ELCID86]

I used Z4M FCABs when I got my front suspension refreshed in March. They are a direct plug and play and has given me increased castor (5.9 degrees). Handling feels great and the steering feels tight!

Same here on both my cars.


Thumbs, iPhone, Tapatalk.

[ELCID86]

Same here on both my cars. We did have to put one in the freezer for 15 min as it would not go on. Thanks to Bruce for remembering that trick.

Thumbs, iPhone, Tapatalk.




Thumbs, iPhone, Tapatalk.

[BMWCurves]

Same here on both my cars. We did have to put one in the freezer for 15 min as it would not go on. Thanks to Bruce for remembering that trick.

Okay, cool, thanks for the info! I PMed Stephen (username: stephenkirsh) since I remember he put them on earlier last year and he said he liked them as well and has had no issues.

I just ordered the full set of Konis from Race Consulting Agency for $498 shipped tonight so we'll see when they arrive. Now I've got to line up all the ancillary parts, Z4M FCABs, and figure out what RTABs I want to do. Any suggestions? I've been leaning Z4M RTABs as I said earlier, but am out of my depth on those.

[slater]

Okay, sounds good. Thanks for all your help! Any idea with regard to the Z4M RTABs? I don't know a whole lot about them other than that article I referenced (link: http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_4_26&products_id=515)

sorry, forgot to answer about that. the Z4M RTABs are the same as E46 M3 RTABs, and they work, yes. they are slightly stiffer durometer rubber than the OE bushings. those with limiters would be OK.


You're right, I can't tell a whole lot of difference from the photo. I wouldn't think it would move the wheel very far forward.

anando's pic doesn't show much perceptible difference, but i seem to remember seeing another car and there was a noticeable difference. weird!

peter

[slater]

this is the pic i was thinking of... stephen's car. now that i look at it again, the front wheels might be turner ever so slightly to the left...

[BMWCurves]

sorry, forgot to answer about that. the Z4M RTABs are the same as E46 M3 RTABs, and they work, yes. they are slightly stiffer durometer rubber than the OE bushings. those with limiters would be OK.

No worries! Hmm...I'll have to decide between those and the spherical ones you suggested. When are you replacing them on your car?


anando's pic doesn't show much perceptible difference, but i seem to remember seeing another car and there was a noticeable difference. weird!

this is the pic i was thinking of... stephen's car. now that i look at it again, the front wheels might be turner ever so slightly to the left...

You're right, Stephen's car looks like it has more, but doesn't look bad or out of place to me. Thanks for tracking that down, and for all the info you've given me! It's definitely been helpful.

[slater]

No worries! Hmm...I'll have to decide between those and the spherical ones you suggested. When are you replacing them on your car?

that's the $64 question... i have a pile of parts to install, and need to line up a day off work with a day i can rent a hoist at a local shop. combined with everything else going on, it might not even be this month!



You're right, Stephen's car looks like it has more, but doesn't look bad or out of place to me. Thanks for tracking that down, and for all the info you've given me! It's definitely been helpful.

no prob, happy to help. :)

peter

[BMWCurves]

So now that I have the Konis and Rogue Engineering RSMs ordered, I have to order all the other ancillary parts. This is a large favor, but can someone verify that these are the correct part numbers? I'm hoping it would help whoever else might be looking to refresh their suspension in a similar manner. I'm planning to just go OEM for all of them:


Strut tower reinforcement plates (51717036781)
Front strut mount (31336752735)
Front spring pads (Upper: 31331091867, Lower: 31331096664)
Rear spring pads (Upper: 33531136385, Lower: 33531094518)
Bump stops (Front: 31306757046, Rear: 33531138109)
Dust boots (Front: 31331094749, Rear: 33521136283)
Z4M Front Control Arm Bushing (FCAB) (Left: 31107836862, Right: 31107836863)

Also, do I need to replace the bolts for the FCABs? I believe they are part no 33306760652. Is that correct? Any help is greatly appreciated!

[anandoc]

For bump stops, I had (front: 31302290313 and rear: 33502290348) in my spreadsheet from earlier this year. I did not replace those, so it is possible I have them wrong.

Can't comment on the spring pads - I did not have them on my list either. Everything else checks out.

[BMWCurves]

For bump stops, I had (front: 31302290313 and rear: 33502290348) in my spreadsheet from earlier this year. I did not replace those, so it is possible I have them wrong.

Can't comment on the spring pads - I did not have them on my list either. Everything else checks out.

That's what I found in Real OEM, but it is labeled as "Repair kit, additional damper guard tube" and that it has "ENDED." Turner Motorsports' website calls it "Genuine BMW Front Axle Repair Kit" as well (link: http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-13347-31302290313-genuine-bmw-part.aspx). ECS Tuning, however, states it is a front bump stop (link: http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-330i-M54_3.0L/ES2530495/). So I'm not really sure what's up. Thanks for the info though, that was part of why I was having trouble nailing down the correct part numbers.

20251

[BMWCurves]

So I think I have it all together. I am sourcing most of the stuff from Turner Motorsport while the FCABs and strut mounts I'll get from FCP Euro. However, TMS has the strut mounts for $50 each but they're made by Lemförder only and list no other manufacturer options. FCP Euro has the same mounts for less (hence why I plan to buy from them currently) but they also have BMW ones for about $75. Can anyone speak of Lemförder's build quality? Should I skip it and shell out for Original BMW?

[danewilson77]

Lemforder is solid in my experiences.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge

[BMWCurves]

Lemforder is solid in my experiences.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge

Mk, thanks! You have me satisfied with buying Lemförder. I also went back and edited the rear bump stops to part no. 33506757047 from 33531138109 as the latter is meant for lowered suspensions which I will not have with OE springs.

Some helpful info I found was a suspension refresh guide by Mango over on E46Fanatics: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=932561

It mentions that you should replace the reinforcement plate bolts after their removal during FCAB replacements, his reasoning being:


When you reinstall the reinforcement plate, make sure you purchase 8 new bolts. These are designed to be changed every time you reinstall the plate. They shear in the event of a crash. You don't want to compromise these very crucial items.

Any idea as to the veracity of this claim? Part no. 31106772199

[san]

I remember reading somewhere that you can either replace the bolts or apply blue loctite on the old ones and reuse them... Not sure where I read it...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[slater]

Some helpful info I found was a suspension refresh guide by Mango over on E46Fanatics: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=932561

It mentions that you should replace the reinforcement plate bolts after their removal during FCAB replacements, his reasoning being:

Any idea as to the veracity of this claim? Part no. 31106772199


oh man. i have removed that thing a few times. i think they are likely referred to as 'stretch' bolts, in which case, yes, they should be replaced, but i haven't done that. subframe bolts are the same way. lots of folks reuse them... as to whether it is safe or not, not sure. we'd have to run an analysis on the new bolt versus one that's been removed and reinstalled once or twice.

peter

[BMWCurves]

I remember reading somewhere that you can either replace the bolts or apply blue loctite on the old ones and reuse them... Not sure where I read it...

I remember reading that for the FCAB bolts, but not for these reinforcement plate bolts. But you could be right.


oh man. i have removed that thing a few times. i think they are likely referred to as 'stretch' bolts, in which case, yes, they should be replaced, but i haven't done that. subframe bolts are the same way. lots of folks reuse them... as to whether it is safe or not, not sure. we'd have to run an analysis on the new bolt versus one that's been removed and reinstalled once or twice.

peter

Hmm...I'll have to think on this. Thanks for the info.

I think I have one final question: Do I need to replace the top locking nuts (part no. 31316769731) for the strut mounts or can I reuse my old ones?

[BMWCurves]

I edited the first post with my finalized parts list for future reference for anyone else looking to do a similar suspension refresh. I will update with thoughts once I have it all installed, although it will be difficult to isolate the differences in feel to specific parts since these will all be going in together.

For anyone that has the Koni Sports, I'd be interested in hearing what stiffness settings you have yours set to? I've heard that the suspension softens/settles after about 500-1000 miles, so I'm thinking I'd do 3/4 turn stiffness front and back.

[san]

I edited the first post with my finalized parts list for future reference for anyone else looking to do a similar suspension refresh. I will update with thoughts once I have it all installed, although it will be difficult to isolate the differences in feel to specific parts since these will all be going in together.

For anyone that has the Koni Sports, I'd be interested in hearing what stiffness settings you have yours set to? I've heard that the suspension softens/settles after about 500-1000 miles, so I'm thinking I'd do 3/4 turn stiffness front and back.

Thanks! I will be doing the suspension refresh myself soon, so this will be very helpful to me...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Vas]

Total amount spent out of curiosity?

[BMWCurves]

Total amount spent out of curiosity?

Let's see...


Koni Sport (Yellows) struts (8741-1390RSPORT [front right], 8741-1390LSPORT [front left]) and shocks [2x 8040-1271SPORT]) - $498.64 (Race Consulting Agency)
Rogue Engineering rear shock mounts (RSM) (no part number) - $99 (Rogue Engineering)
Strut tower reinforcement plates (2x 51717036781) - $19.90 (TMS)
Front strut mount (2x 31336752735) (FCP Euro) - $57.98 (FCP Euro)
Front spring pads (Upper: 2x 31331091867, Lower: 2x 31331096664) - $19.80 (TMS)
Rear spring pads (Upper: 2x 33531136385, Lower: 2x 33531094518) - $31.80 (TMS)
Bump stops (Front: 2x 31306757046, Rear: 2x 33506757047) - $45.80 (TMS)
Dust boots (Front: 2x 31331094749, Rear: 2x 33521136283) - $16.28 (TMS)
Z4M Front Control Arm Bushing (FCAB) (Left: 31107836862, Right: 31107836863) - $143.98 (FCP Euro)
Hex bolt w/ washer for FCABs (4x 33306760652) - $11.56 (FCP Euro)
Locking nuts for strut mounts (6x 31316769731) - $5.70 (TMS)
Shipping - $13.01 (Rogue Engineering) + $19.29 (TMS) (Race Consulting Agency and FCP Euro were free)

Grand total: $1,002.78

Quite pricey when you look at it. But that $1k should last me 50k miles on the very low side, and I'll have the peace of mind knowing that all those ancillary parts are new. Should you be looking for a more frugal option, you could definitely skip replacing a lot of those items.

[BMWCurves]

Bump with a new topic/question: RTABs and limiters

I've decided I might as well do my RTABs now. Since I want to keep a comfortable ride and heard that poly RTABs can increase NVH as well as other issues, I'm considering either the M3 or Z4M RTABs but don't know what to go with. Is there a difference between the two? I'm struggling to find any definitive answer one way or the other.

Since I'm doing RTABs it sounds like I should also get limiters. I saw Derbo uses Turner Motorsports' version, I was eyeing Vorshlag's set, and I saw there are a few other companies out there that do them.

Any suggestions/info on RTABs as well as a brand of limiters would be greatly appreciated!

[BMWCurves]

Update:

I have installed everything on my list from the first page except for the FCABs and RTABs (you can read about the install in my project thread here for the rear shocks (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?15714-William-s-330Ci-ZHP-Maintenance-and-Project-Thread&p=449113#post449113) and here for the front struts (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?15714-William-s-330Ci-ZHP-Maintenance-and-Project-Thread&p=449192#post449192)).

Notes:
I haven't gotten an alignment yet so I haven't really gone canyon carving and gotten a feel for its handling, improved or otherwise. However, I should say though that the comfort is much improved with the Konis over the original shocks and struts. I am still aware of bumps, but where they used to be jarring with the old units, they're now something I am merely conscious of and don't bother me. I set both the fronts and the rears to 3/4 turn from soft. I may adjust that in the future but for now they're great.

When I pulled out the old Sachs shocks and struts I did not notice any weeping of fluid, but they were definitely degraded. The rear shocks, when compressed, did not rebound at all. They took over 5 minutes to fully rebound. The front struts did have some rebound left in them, but still were very slow and clearly degraded. So I'm not sure if it was the miles (50k), the age (10 years), or a combination of the two, but they were due for replacement and I'm glad I went with the Konis.

I will update again when I have installed the FCABs and RTABs and gotten an alignment. I decided to go with both Z4M FCABs (Left: 31107836862, Right: 31107836863) and RTABs (33326770817 (2x)), as well as Vorshlag limiters since there didn't seem to be a whole lot of difference between their product and ones from Turner Motorsport and other vendors.

[BMWCurves]

Updated the first post with my thoughts after getting everything installed.

[NoVAphotog]

Updated the first post with my thoughts after getting everything installed.
Update on thoughts, tips, advice? Starting to build list based on yours to follow in your footsteps in the Spring.

[BMWCurves]

I absolutely love it. The car feels a lot tighter and more eager to turn into corners than it did before. The ride comfort has also improved. It's still stiff, but not spine-jarringly so. It just feels very connected with the road which is what I like. My father took a spin in the car a few days ago for the first time since I installed all these suspension parts and he commented that it felt much better. Really tight, planted, and agile. If you plan to keep your car for awhile I would change out all the parts I used but that is of course at your discretion. You certainly don't have to get new dust boots, bump stops, spring pads, etc. I just figured I might as well since I'm already in there and that way I won't have to change them out for another 10 years.

The only items I would consider changing would be the RTABs and the springs. I thought about the spherical RTABs that Slater is putting in his car but I opted to stick with the Z4M RTABs (with limiters), which work wonderfully so far. I briefly considered lowering springs for aesthetics and/or stiffer springs for performance, but I eventually opted to stay with the stock springs because I like the physical clearance (I would scrape on any sharp angled driveways) and the ride is plenty stiff for me. Plus I could save money and spend it elsewhere.

As for tips, if this is your first time installing shocks/struts and other parts, take your time, read up on it (the links in the first post of this thread can be helpful). I would especially suggest that you take a picture of the spring's orientation on the front struts before disassembling them. I made the mistake of not taking a picture and seating the spring improperly from memory and having to recompress the spring and orient it correctly, which was a pain and took a lot of time. If you have an air ratchet, you're a lucky son of a gun, it'll make the job a lot easier. Otherwise prepare for a bit of a workout.

Other things:

The new strut mounts I received did not have a dust cap thing that covered the original strut mounts, so I washed it off, added some bearing grease, and installed it to the new strut mount.
When I was working on the rear shocks, there was no real good method to tearing the sound proofing covering the shock mounts. It's hidden away by the trunk carpeting, but it still bothers me knowing that it's ripped up.
If you go the route of Koni Sports (I really like them), be patient adjusting the rear shocks. There is no easy way to measure so you just have to turn one to the desired stiffness, then eyeball the other one until they rebound at the same rate. They're roughly 3/4 turn from soft on all four corners in my car. They supposedly will soften up a bit after a thousand miles or so.

Overall I encourage anyone looking for a similar-to-factory feel and with the time and money, suggest this suspension refresh. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

EDIT: I forgot to add that I did not include or replace the "upper spring pocket with spacer" (item 7, here: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=31_0408, part no. 31326769667) because no one mentioned I should nor did it seem necessary. Some other people might do it, but I did not and there seems to be no issue thusfar.

[ELCID86]

Great advice. Several of us are planning refreshes during the spring Koni sale. Colin's OB car is now a candidate...


Thumbs, iPhone, TaT.

[danewilson77]

Great advice. Several of us are planning refreshes during the spring Koni sale. Colin's OB car is now a candidate...


Thumbs, iPhone, TaT.
+1

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

[NoVAphotog]

Great advice. Several of us are planning refreshes during the spring Koni sale. Colin's OB car is now a candidate...


Thumbs, iPhone, TaT.

+1

Thank you William, it is threads like these that make this forum incredible!

[bimmergofast]

Thanks here also- acquired all the parts based on your list. Saved me a ton of time and searching! Rear is done, planning to knock the front out this weekend.

[BMWCurves]

Great advice. Several of us are planning refreshes during the spring Koni sale. Colin's OB car is now a candidate...

+1

Thank you William, it is threads like these that make this forum incredible!

Thanks here also- acquired all the parts based on your list. Saved me a ton of time and searching! Rear is done, planning to knock the front out this weekend.

Glad to hear I've helped people out! I feel like I'm gradually repaying all of the help I've gotten from this forum.

EDIT: cleaned up the first post a bit with more information and ease of use.

[NoVAphotog]

Thanks here also- acquired all the parts based on your list. Saved me a ton of time and searching! Rear is done, planning to knock the front out this weekend.
In for your thoughts! :thumbsup

[BMWCurves]

Thanks here also- acquired all the parts based on your list. Saved me a ton of time and searching! Rear is done, planning to knock the front out this weekend.

What shocks/struts are you going to use?

[rkneeshaw]

Very nice thread, thanks for posting up!

I posted this on FB too, but I dont understand the hate towards poly RTABs. When you put limiters on the rubber bushings you restrict the articulation exactly the same way as poly RTABs do. I ran limiters with stock bushings, and those bushings still failed, the poly's should last a lot longer. I dont see any downsides to poly.

[slater]

Very nice thread, thanks for posting up!

I posted this on FB too, but I dont understand the hate towards poly RTABs. When you put limiters on the rubber bushings you restrict the articulation exactly the same way as poly RTABs do. I ran limiters with stock bushings, and those bushings still failed, the poly's should last a lot longer. I dont see any downsides to poly.

with the limiters and OE bushings there is still some room for initial movement, but it is ultimately 'limited.' ;)

the poly bushings limit movement from the get-go... however... the big issue here is that the rear trailing arm articulates the RTAB in more than one axis. poly generally does not play nicely with this type of movement and ultimately will result in less grip.

a spherical bearing will allow correct articulation, much better than the stock bushing without limiters, too! there is also zero slop. MAN i am excited to get these installed in my car!

peter

[Vas]

with the limiters and OE bushings there is still some room for initial movement, but it is ultimately 'limited.' ;)

the poly bushings limit movement from the get-go... however... the big issue here is that the rear trailing arm articulates the RTAB in more than one axis. poly generally does not play nicely with this type of movement and ultimately will result in less grip.

a spherical bearing will allow correct articulation, much better than the stock bushing without limiters, too! there is also zero slop. MAN i am excited to get these installed in my car!

peter
I been on the fence thinking if I should get limiters with the z4m trailing arm bushings.

[NoVAphotog]

I been on the fence thinking if I should get limiters with the z4m trailing arm bushings.

Same boat...is it really going to make a difference over just replacing/upgrading the bushings themselves? Car feels fine as it is...my commute to Arlington isn't a Spec E46 race...

[Vas]

Same boat...is it really going to make a difference over just replacing/upgrading the bushings themselves? Car feels fine as it is...my commute to Arlington isn't a Spec E46 race...

No. Just upgrade the factory stuff to z4m and be done with it.

But here is an interesting article about using limiters. Worth a read

http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?products_id=421

[slater]

No. Just upgrade the factory stuff to z4m and be done with it.

But here is an interesting article about using limiters. Worth a read

http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?products_id=421

yep, and i agree. the Z4M bushings with limiters would be fine for a street car.

i am personally installing the bimmerworld sealed spherical bearings, because knowing they exist, i simply cannot NOT use them - they are an ingenious solution using an OEM bearing, and will only improve the car's handling and grip, with no reported downsides (usage reports state no additional NVH).

my car is a street car and family hauler - i am crazy about retaining ride quality and comfort - but i am also crazy about making sure things work as best as they can.

:cheers

peter

[rkneeshaw]

That vorshlag link is missing the same point that I think the rest of you are.

Have any of you looked at that bushing once the limiters are installed? That thing isn't moving side to side or twisting. There's no difference from when you install a poly bushing.

The only difference between a poly bushing and a OEM bushing with limiters is the forward-to-rear movement of that rear trailing arm will be a little less "cushioned"... because the poly is harder than the rubber.

EDIT: btw, I've had both. I started with stock bushings and limiters, then installed the powerflex poly's. No detectable change in NVH. What I did detect was how planted and controlled the rear of the car was because those rubber bushings (even with the limiters) had gotten soft.

[Vas]

That vorshlag link is missing the same point that I think the rest of you are.

Have any of you looked at that bushing once the limiters are installed? That thing isn't moving side to side or twisting. There's no difference from when you install a poly bushing.

The only difference between a poly bushing and a OEM bushing with limiters is the forward-to-rear movement of that rear trailing arm will be a little less "cushioned"... because the poly is harder than the rubber.

EDIT: btw, I've had both. I started with stock bushings and limiters, then installed the powerflex poly's. No detectable change in NVH. What I did detect was how planted and controlled the rear of the car was because those rubber bushings (even with the limiters) had gotten soft.

I have not seen the bushing with the limiters installed. But I was under the assumption that the bushings wear out due to the extra space in the arm. So with the limiters installed, you are getting rid of that space which limits the bushings movement and extends the life of it.

[rkneeshaw]

I have not seen the bushing with the limiters installed. But I was under the assumption that the bushings wear out due to the extra space in the arm. So with the limiters installed, you are getting rid of that space which limits the bushings movement and extends the life of it.

That's what I thought too, and what Turner told me when I bought them back with 33k on the car in 2009. Rear end was feeling slippery over bumps and such at about 95k (last year) so I went poly. Made a big difference, handling was restored.

I just figure rubber is rubber, its going to age and crack.

[rkneeshaw]

I didn't read the whole thread yet, so I dont know how it turns out, but you can see what the limiters look like installed:

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=339709
http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Instructions/Rear-Trailing-Arm-Bushing-RTAB/DSC9007/813380881_FgkYf-L.jpg

There's no movement left.

Just like the poly RTABs:

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k513/rkneeshaw/2003%20BMW%20330i%20ZHP/WP_20140510_14_39_25_Pro.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/rkneeshaw/media/2003%20BMW%20330i%20ZHP/WP_20140510_14_39_25_Pro.jpg.html)

[Vas]

That's what I thought too, and what Turner told me when I bought them back with 33k on the car in 2009. Rear end was feeling slippery over bumps and such at about 95k (last year) so I went poly. Made a big difference, handling was restored.

I just figure rubber is rubber, its going to age and crack.

That sounds about right. 60k is usually the lifespan of those bushings.

Correct me if I am wrong, but even with the limiters, does the bushing still twist inside of itself since its rubber and not poly?

[rkneeshaw]

Correct me if I am wrong, but even with the limiters, does the bushing still twist inside of itself since its rubber and not poly?

I don't see how that matters, because the metal arm goes AROUND the bushing. The limiters don't allow the big O in the arm that holds the bushing to twist in that mount.

What you can't see well in that vorshlag picture above, is that it is solid from side to side. There is thin tab of rubber between the limiter and the rear trailing arm. And when they are installed, there's no twisting movement there.

In fact, looking at these pictures, I'll argue that the poly bushing has more room to twist than an OE bushing with limiters. There is actually nothing on the sides of the poly bushing, only the firmness of the poly bushing is going to restrict twisting.

I believe Vorshlag posted that article because they dont make poly bushings. They do make limiters.

[Vas]

I can see the benefit of the bushing not moving side to side using the limiters. AS long as it does not mind. Also toe changes with suspension travel i believe.

[BMWCurves]

I can't speak to the difference with or without the limiters since I had them installed with the new Z4M bushings, but for $50 I'm not too bothered if they're not doing anything particularly useful other than being beneficial in my mind. That said, the new set up makes the rear feel much more planted than before.

[rkneeshaw]

For the record, I'm sure the limiters are fine, and I'd still run them if I didn't have poly. I'm just saying the argument that the limiters are better than poly RTABs for suspension articulation is flawed.

I'm interested to hear slaters feedback on the spherical ball joint RTABs.

[bimmergofast]

What shocks/struts are you going to use?

I picked up the Koni Yellows

[slater]

That vorshlag link is missing the same point that I think the rest of you are.

Have any of you looked at that bushing once the limiters are installed? That thing isn't moving side to side or twisting. There's no difference from when you install a poly bushing.

The only difference between a poly bushing and a OEM bushing with limiters is the forward-to-rear movement of that rear trailing arm will be a little less "cushioned"... because the poly is harder than the rubber.

EDIT: btw, I've had both. I started with stock bushings and limiters, then installed the powerflex poly's. No detectable change in NVH. What I did detect was how planted and controlled the rear of the car was because those rubber bushings (even with the limiters) had gotten soft.

the vorshlag article does touch on it, they state in the first paragraph (going from memory here) that the rear trailing arm rotates in more than one axis.

if it helps, think of how the rear trailing arm rotates as the wheel moves up and down. rubber (sans limiters) allows this movement, but at a cost of reduced lifespan (and toe change, since they are soft). limiters, and poly, will limit movement and ultimately bind. only spherical will allow full, unencumbered articulation, without toe change or slop.

peter

[rkneeshaw]

Peter, I agree.

I was saying the vorshlag article gives the impression that poly is a bad choice, and limiters are a good choice. My argument is that they are the same in regard to how they effect the articulation of the rear trailing arm.

Would there be any drawbacks with spherical RTABs? I thought someone mentioned more maintenance, but what kind of maintenance would there be?

[slater]

Peter, I agree.

I was saying the vorshlag article gives the impression that poly is a bad choice, and limiters are a good choice. My argument is that they are the same in regard to how they effect the articulation of the rear trailing arm.

i agree 100%. :cheers



Would there be any drawbacks with spherical RTABs? I thought someone mentioned more maintenance, but what kind of maintenance would there be?

no, from what i've read, there is no drawback - just a more precise and communicative rear end.

as for maintenance, you can see here from the pic on their website that it uses what is potentially the same sealer spherical bearing that we have already in the rear hub for the upper/outer rear control arm mounting point. it is sealed and should really never need replacement, but if it does, it's an OEM part. that's what makes it so attractive to me. (you know - i just thought of this - i have a new pair of those OE hub/control arm spherical bearings on the shelf, i will check today to see if they are indeed the same as the ones in the bimmerworld kit.)

22327

here are some quick thoughts from someone who uses them that i found - and i would echo his sentiments about the poly RTABs:

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2159740-Powerflex-RTABs&p=28312424#post28312424

peter

[rkneeshaw]

...it uses what is potentially the same sealer spherical bearing that we have already in the rear hub for the upper/outer rear control arm mounting point. it is sealed and should really never need replacement, but if it does, it's an OEM part. that's what makes it so attractive to me.

Dude, I like! What a great design, using the existing spherical bearings from the rear control arm inside a "carrier" of sorts.

Reminds me when I upgraded the lower outer rear control arm bushing to the spherical bearing (it's what the M3's use, and is a slight upgrade for non-m's), that also uses the exact same part too.

When do you get yours installed?

[slater]

Dude, I like! What a great design, using the existing spherical bearings from the rear control arm inside a "carrier" of sorts.

Reminds me when I upgraded the lower outer rear control arm bushing to the spherical bearing (it's what the M3's use, and is a slight upgrade for non-m's), that also uses the exact same part too.

When do you get yours installed?

yep, and i am putting some of those in the lower rear outer control arm location as well. hopefully early next week at this point, i have about 4hrs of time tomorrow and then not until monday night. i need to get the entire rear end dropped and center driveshaft out too (lots of maintenance going on :) ).

peter

[Vas]

It is a great idea but have to bite the bullet at $200 for some RTAB.

[slater]

It is a great idea but have to bite the bullet at $200 for some RTAB.

$200 vs $80 for powerflex or lemfoerder M3/Z4M... peanuts for better handling.

peter

[Vas]

$200 vs $80 for powerflex or lemfoerder M3/Z4M... peanuts for better handling.

peter
$40 for z4m rubber

[UdubBadger]

z4m is the legit way to go to retain daily comfort

[NoVAphotog]

z4m is the legit way to go to retain daily comfort
:thumbsup

[BMWCurves]

Peter,

Do you have a direct link to buy the spherical RTABs? I'd like to put them and a link in the first post as an alternative.

[rkneeshaw]

Did some googling on those bimmerworld spherical RTABs, turns out it is NOT the same bearing as is used in the rear control arm location, but it IS a BMW OEM bearing. But they refuse to say from what BMW application or location in order to protect their trade secrets.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=511357&page=10

Also, there is another 11 page thread on m3forum.net regarding these bimmerworld spherical bearings and everyone reports NO increase in NVH, and that the car just feels amazing afterwards.

There were a few reports of clicking from early adopters due to the sleeve fitting a little loose in the rear control arm, but bimmerworld has updated the product since then to account for those tolerances and has shims available for those early adopters that still have issues.

If I didn't JUST get an alignment done I would be so tempted to get these in like right now.

[Vas]

Interesting read in that thread.

Anybody that bought one of these want to post up close pics of the parts?

[slater]

$40 for z4m rubber

true, but not with limiters (i forgot to specify. :) ). should be $80 with limiters, which is what we're using for comparison here.



Peter,

Do you have a direct link to buy the spherical RTABs? I'd like to put them and a link in the first post as an alternative.

yep, this is actually where i bought mine - cheaper than directly from BW, and free shipping to boot!

http://www.custom-performance.net/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=1558&idcategory=261



Did some googling on those bimmerworld spherical RTABs, turns out it is NOT the same bearing as is used in the rear control arm location, but it IS a BMW OEM bearing. But they refuse to say from what BMW application or location in order to protect their trade secrets.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=511357&page=10

Also, there is another 11 page thread on m3forum.net regarding these bimmerworld spherical bearings and everyone reports NO increase in NVH, and that the car just feels amazing afterwards.

There were a few reports of clicking from early adopters due to the sleeve fitting a little loose in the rear control arm, but bimmerworld has updated the product since then to account for those tolerances and has shims available for those early adopters that still have issues.

If I didn't JUST get an alignment done I would be so tempted to get these in like right now.

haha - i had read the same threads. now you see why i had to have them. :) pics below of the guts so you can see them.



Interesting read in that thread.

Anybody that bought one of these want to post up close pics of the parts?

yep, just took some pics.

pic 1: here you can see the opened BW spherical bearing and case, alongside a new lemfoerder 'balljoint' rear hub bushing. it's not really a bushing, it's a sealed spherical bearing. you can also see that the lemfoerder box has the dimensions on the box, so we could potentially find the OE part that BW users by simply measuring. note that the BW unit is pressed into the housing - i could not push it out by hand. also, you can see that the boots are different.

pic 2: side by side. clearly the sealed spherical bearing that BW uses is shorter and therefor most likely capable of rotating more.

hope that helps.

peter

[BMWCurves]

Thanks for the update, Peter!

[AggieBlake]

Great thread, guys! This has been very helpful to read through as I prepare to do FCAB's and RSM's soon. I got under the car last night to see what else needs to be replaced, and finally found the date code on the shocks. They're original. So at 99k miles and 11 years, I think they're due for replacement :) Based on what I'm reading here and in similar threads, it looks like the Koni sports on my current springs are the way to go (the springs show no signs of corrosion - it's a TX and FL car - no salt).

So William, Peter, Vas, anyone... would any of you suggest I look at anything other than the Koni's on current springs for my application? Here's my requirements:

- Mostly DD duty and lots of that with kids. So it needs to be comfortable on road.
- Occasional track and autoX (perhaps 5 total events a year), but not competing - just recreational. I'm not looking for absolute performance on track, just competence. Damping adjustability is a nice bonus since it allows some easy tuning at the track. But it's not essential.
- No desire for significant lowering/stancing. I'm happy at stock ride height, but could probably drop a half inch all around without beginning to scrape or bottom out on our subpar roads.

Any of you know if Koni's will be back on 25% off sale sometime in the next 4 months?

[Vas]

Great thread, guys! This has been very helpful to read through as I prepare to do FCAB's and RSM's soon. I got under the car last night to see what else needs to be replaced, and finally found the date code on the shocks. They're original. So at 99k miles and 11 years, I think they're due for replacement :) Based on what I'm reading here and in similar threads, it looks like the Koni sports on my current springs are the way to go (the springs show no signs of corrosion - it's a TX and FL car - no salt).

So William, Peter, Vas, anyone... would any of you suggest I look at anything other than the Koni's on current springs for my application? Here's my requirements:

- Mostly DD duty and lots of that with kids. So it needs to be comfortable on road.
- Occasional track and autoX (perhaps 5 total events a year), but not competing - just recreational. I'm not looking for absolute performance on track, just competence. Damping adjustability is a nice bonus since it allows some easy tuning at the track. But it's not essential.
- No desire for significant lowering/stancing. I'm happy at stock ride height, but could probably drop a half inch all around without beginning to scrape or bottom out on our subpar roads.

Any of you know if Koni's will be back on 25% off sale sometime in the next 4 months?

I would go with the Koni Yellows, Z4M FCAB, Z4M RTAB and Rouge Rear Shock Mounts. That is a proven combination of parts that is an improvement over the factory stuff while not sacrificing ride quality and improving the handing.

As far as lowering, I would leave the stock zhp springs unless you want the car lower.

Koni usually has their sale staring in March. I am waiting for it as well since the price of $500 for a full set of Koni Yellow shocks is very appealing.

Also do not forget about the other parts needed to do a refresh including the front reinforcement plates.

[san]

Great thread, guys! This has been very helpful to read through as I prepare to do FCAB's and RSM's soon. I got under the car last night to see what else needs to be replaced, and finally found the date code on the shocks. They're original. So at 99k miles and 11 years, I think they're due for replacement :) Based on what I'm reading here and in similar threads, it looks like the Koni sports on my current springs are the way to go (the springs show no signs of corrosion - it's a TX and FL car - no salt).

So William, Peter, Vas, anyone... would any of you suggest I look at anything other than the Koni's on current springs for my application? Here's my requirements:

- Mostly DD duty and lots of that with kids. So it needs to be comfortable on road.
- Occasional track and autoX (perhaps 5 total events a year), but not competing - just recreational. I'm not looking for absolute performance on track, just competence. Damping adjustability is a nice bonus since it allows some easy tuning at the track. But it's not essential.
- No desire for significant lowering/stancing. I'm happy at stock ride height, but could probably drop a half inch all around without beginning to scrape or bottom out on our subpar roads.

Any of you know if Koni's will be back on 25% off sale sometime in the next 4 months?

Based on your requirements, I think koni's are your best bet... (Others can correct me if I'm wrong)

I went with koni's myself and I'm happy with them. I am happy with ride and it doesn't feel harsh at all.

Regarding ride height I don't think shocks will affect your ride height, springs do. Since you are sticking other oem springs your ride height should remain the same...

I think koni's go on sale in March...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AggieBlake]

Yes, understood on ride height. I added that requirement to clarify that I'm not wanting significant drop, so that's not a reason for a coil-over set up. I'll stay stock ride height on these springs, but if I go with the Koni Yellows, it sounds like I could choose to go with a slightly sportier, shorter spring in the future (nothing dramatic, but a small drop).

I've already got the Rogue RSM's ready to mount, along with front strut tower reinforcements (no strut bar yet - need to save some cash) and power flex black FCAB's (a good friend with Bimmerworld suggested I try these). I'll add the Z4M RTAB's you mention (still considering Slater's suggestion of spherical RTAB's, but it'd be nice to save some coin if these are sufficient). Vas, did you add limiters to these Z4M RTAB's?

[slater]

So William, Peter, Vas, anyone... would any of you suggest I look at anything other than the Koni's on current springs for my application? Here's my requirements:

- Mostly DD duty and lots of that with kids. So it needs to be comfortable on road.
- Occasional track and autoX (perhaps 5 total events a year), but not competing - just recreational. I'm not looking for absolute performance on track, just competence. Damping adjustability is a nice bonus since it allows some easy tuning at the track. But it's not essential.
- No desire for significant lowering/stancing. I'm happy at stock ride height, but could probably drop a half inch all around without beginning to scrape or bottom out on our subpar roads.

Any of you know if Koni's will be back on 25% off sale sometime in the next 4 months?

konis should be on sale in march...

i think the konis are a great choice for your goals. here's what i would recommend:

- koni yellows from ground control; get their custom-valved rears, because they are less 'busy' and are also top-adjustable (otherwise you need to remove the rear shocks to make adjustments - personally, it's worth the extra money to me for this feature... time savings = money well-spent)
- rogue rear strut mounts
- BMW front strut reinforcement plates
- new swaybar bushings (poly works well)
- bimmerworld sealed spherical RTABs (quiet, OE bearing, allows rear trailing arm to articulate fully - they are sublime)
- Z4M FCABs are probably a good choice as they are more caster; i run AKG poly FCABs and i really like them, both performance and design)
- new rear outer control arm bushings (upper and lower); go for the OE upper 'bushings' (they are actually bearings) in both upper/lower locations (a la M3)
- also consider your rear diff mounts (rear is the most critical), and subframe mounts

that should make a pretty good driver. also, consider your alignment settings. :)

:cheers

peter

[Vas]

Yes, understood on ride height. I added that requirement to clarify that I'm not wanting significant drop, so that's not a reason for a coil-over set up. I'll stay stock ride height on these springs, but if I go with the Koni Yellows, it sounds like I could choose to go with a slightly sportier, shorter spring in the future (nothing dramatic, but a small drop).

I've already got the Rogue RSM's ready to mount, along with front strut tower reinforcements (no strut bar yet - need to save some cash) and power flex black FCAB's (a good friend with Bimmerworld suggested I try these). I'll add the Z4M RTAB's you mention (still considering Slater's suggestion of spherical RTAB's, but it'd be nice to save some coin if these are sufficient). Vas, did you add limiters to these Z4M RTAB's?

I was going to go with the spherical RTAB but could not justify the price. So i got the Z4M units and the limiters as well. Waiting till I get shocks and then will install everything during the spring.

Down the road, I was also thinking of going with some lowering springs from H&R

[Vas]

konis should be on sale in march...

i think the konis are a great choice for your goals. here's what i would recommend:

- koni yellows from ground control; get their custom-valved rears, because they are less 'busy' and are also top-adjustable (otherwise you need to remove the rear shocks to make adjustments - personally, it's worth the extra money to me for this feature... time savings = money well-spent)
- rogue rear strut mounts
- BMW front strut reinforcement plates
- new swaybar bushings (poly works well)
- bimmerworld sealed spherical RTABs (quiet, OE bearing, allows rear trailing arm to articulate fully - they are sublime)
- Z4M FCABs are probably a good choice as they are more caster; i run AKG poly FCABs and i really like them, both performance and design)
- new rear outer control arm bushings (upper and lower); go for the OE upper 'bushings' (they are actually bearings) in both upper/lower locations (a la M3)
- also consider your rear diff mounts (rear is the most critical), and subframe mounts

that should make a pretty good driver. also, consider your alignment settings. :)

:cheers

peter

How much more are the Koni Yellow from Ground Control?

[slater]

I've already got the Rogue RSM's ready to mount, along with front strut tower reinforcements (no strut bar yet - need to save some cash) and power flex black FCAB's (a good friend with Bimmerworld suggested I try these). I'll add the Z4M RTAB's you mention (still considering Slater's suggestion of spherical RTAB's, but it'd be nice to save some coin if these are sufficient). Vas, did you add limiters to these Z4M RTAB's?

sorry, i had my reply above in edit mode for an hour or so, so i didn't know you replied before i posted. :)

i'm curious to see how the powerflex FCABs do long-term.

re: the RTABs... i think Z4M + limiters is around $80, the bimmerworld spherical units are $195. so, they are more expensive, but in my opinion - money worth spending. the Z4M + limiters is still a compromise because they still limit (read: restrict) rear trailing arm movement (also, being rubber and requiring so much movement, they will wear out fast). it all comes down to driver feel (some folks are more sensitive than others), and getting the power down the best way you can. the spherical RTABs will give you the best chance at both of those things.

[slater]

I was going to go with the spherical RTAB but could not justify the price. So i got the Z4M units and the limiters as well. Waiting till I get shocks and then will install everything during the spring.

Down the road, I was also thinking of going with some lowering springs from H&R

it's only $115 more to go with the spherical units. not heaps.

i have never liked H&R springs, personally. too low, and too soft. a recipe for bottoming out.



How much more are the Koni Yellow from Ground Control?

i think they're maybe $200 more for the pair. i think last year when i was pricing them, it was $550 vs $750 for the set of four from them. again, if you're going to adjust them, consider the time it takes to do that. some folks have more time than others. my time is limited to evenings and rarely at that, so i'm happy to pay more to save time later. :cheers

in the end i went with the bilstein PSS though. the EUR/CAD exchange rate was really good and i basically got them for the same price as a set of konis. :) no complaints, they are amazing both in performance and build quality.

[AggieBlake]

You're right on the diff bushings. I added the rear one to the list last night - saw a small crack in it. Will have to do that repair to at some point soon.

This kind of work is where it's hard to DD a car like this. With my track car, I can do comprehensive work over the course of weeks with it on the stands - just tinker away every night. With my ZHP I really have to carefully plan everything and do it piecemeal just to make sure I can get to school and work the next day. It's less efficient and more stressful. Oh well - shouldn't complain. I'm still having way more fun than I was a few months ago when I had a '13 Accord that needed nothing instead of the ZHP as my daily!

Here's my current plan divided into 4 separate projects (realistically about 1 per month):
- Next three weeks I will change engine mounts (M3) and tranny mounts (UUC) while I switch out the exhaust (TSE3 cutback) and change tranny and diff fluid to redline
- After that: front suspension FCAB's and strut reinforcements
- Once Koni's go on sale: rear suspension RSM's, RTAB's, shocks; front struts; any other small related parts/bushings. Full alignment.
- Later: diff bushings (at least the big rear one) and perhaps subframe bushings if I'm really motivated

I'm hoping each portion can fit within one day - realistically 6 hours tops.

One question - can I live for a couple months without an alignment after the FCAB replacement? That would allow me to do a single alignment after the suspension is done.

[BMWCurves]

Great thread, guys! This has been very helpful to read through as I prepare to do FCAB's and RSM's soon. I got under the car last night to see what else needs to be replaced, and finally found the date code on the shocks. They're original. So at 99k miles and 11 years, I think they're due for replacement :) Based on what I'm reading here and in similar threads, it looks like the Koni sports on my current springs are the way to go (the springs show no signs of corrosion - it's a TX and FL car - no salt).

So William, Peter, Vas, anyone... would any of you suggest I look at anything other than the Koni's on current springs for my application? Here's my requirements:

- Mostly DD duty and lots of that with kids. So it needs to be comfortable on road.
- Occasional track and autoX (perhaps 5 total events a year), but not competing - just recreational. I'm not looking for absolute performance on track, just competence. Damping adjustability is a nice bonus since it allows some easy tuning at the track. But it's not essential.
- No desire for significant lowering/stancing. I'm happy at stock ride height, but could probably drop a half inch all around without beginning to scrape or bottom out on our subpar roads.

Any of you know if Koni's will be back on 25% off sale sometime in the next 4 months?

A lot of good info posted before me, but I'll still toss in my $0.02. I'm not particularly familiar with other company's shocks/struts, but from what I've heard, Bilsteins don't have as much damping distance and as a result are much stiffer than Konis and can affect the ride comfort. Alternatively, you have a lot more brand options with coilovers, but then the amount you spend increases quite a bit. If you wait around you might be able to pick up a gently used set locally or on a forum's classifieds, but that's more of a gamble. You do have the benefit of more adjustability since some kits can adjust compression and rebound rates as well as ride height.

I personally chose the Koni Yellows (Sports) for their combination of adjustability, ride comfort, and performance that met my needs. I've driven my father's cars which have all had Koni Yellows at various settings so I had experience with what they can do. Full soft is like OEM, and then you can get quite stiff. I have it at about half way at 3/4 turn from soft and it's great for a DD. You could probably dial it up from there for the track. I was okay with the ride height since I would scrape on a lot of driveways around where I live. Our cars aren't exactly sitting tall to begin with anyways, so that was fine with me. If you do want to lower it with a different set of springs, I'd maybe say go with H&R but I am really not familiar with them.

I will say that adjusting the rear shocks would be a bit of a chore since you have to disconnect the shock fully and adjust it in a more annoying fashion. You can see what you have to do here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DmhhcEYsVs

Slater suggests the top adjustable rear shocks from Ground Control, but I can't find them now on their website and I couldn't find them when I was looking originally. Maybe I'm just a dolt? At any rate, the two alternatives for top adjustable rear Konis are Dinan's ($150 a piece, link: http://www.dinancars.com/product/d140-0465-koni-adjustable-rear-shock-for-bmw-3-series-e46-2/) and TC Kline's ($264 a piece, link: http://www.tcklineracing.com/webdocs/Items/Details30.cfm). My problem with both was I couldn't figure out if they had custom valving i.e. would they have different rebound values for the same stiffness setting in the front, and if they break, who I would warranty through. In the end, since I don't plan to do too many events where I would adjust the rear shocks, I opted for the standard Konis for the price and knowledge of their warranty through Koni.

As far as bushings, I only did FCABs and RTABs, so I don't know about sway bar bushings or other bushings in the rear that Slater mentions. From my own experience, I have nothing but good things to say about the Z4M FCABs and Z4M RTABs with limiters. If I were to do it again I might go with the spherical RTABs from Bimmerworld. Poly is another option, but I prefer the slight give of rubber since it is a daily.

And as others have said, Koni is supposedly having a sale in March, so that's a good time to pick up a set of Konis if that's what you're going for.

Hope that helps, and let us know what you decide!

[Sockethead]

For the alignment question:
I think it depends on what bushing you use. I've swapped those bushings, OEM style for OEM style without an alignment for a while with no abnormal tire wear or handling issues...

[slater]

You're right on the diff bushings. I added the rear one to the list last night - saw a small crack in it. Will have to do that repair to at some point soon.

This kind of work is where it's hard to DD a car like this. With my track car, I can do comprehensive work over the course of weeks with it on the stands - just tinker away every night. With my ZHP I really have to carefully plan everything and do it piecemeal just to make sure I can get to school and work the next day. It's less efficient and more stressful. Oh well - shouldn't complain. I'm still having way more fun than I was a few months ago when I had a '13 Accord that needed nothing instead of the ZHP as my daily!

Here's my current plan divided into 4 separate projects (realistically about 1 per month):
- Next three weeks I will change engine mounts (M3) and tranny mounts (UUC) while I switch out the exhaust (TSE3 cutback) and change tranny and diff fluid to redline
- After that: front suspension FCAB's and strut reinforcements
- Once Koni's go on sale: rear suspension RSM's, RTAB's, shocks; front struts; any other small related parts/bushings. Full alignment.
- Later: diff bushings (at least the big rear one) and perhaps subframe bushings if I'm really motivated

I'm hoping each portion can fit within one day - realistically 6 hours tops.

One question - can I live for a couple months without an alignment after the FCAB replacement? That would allow me to do a single alignment after the suspension is done.

i hear you about it being hard when the car is a DD! been there, done that! it is definitely possible if you plan it right!

you should be able to tackle in one 6hr chunk:

- M3 engine mounts
- UUC trans mounts
- exhaust
- fluids


next chunk:

- front struts
- front reinforcement plates
- FCABs
- front swaybar bushings
- rear shocks
- RSMs


next chunk:

- RTABs (the right tool goes a long way here)
- rear diff mount (again with the right tool :) )

then you can get an alignment. :)




Slater suggests the top adjustable rear shocks from Ground Control, but I can't find them now on their website and I couldn't find them when I was looking originally. Maybe I'm just a dolt? At any rate, the two alternatives for top adjustable rear Konis are Dinan's ($150 a piece, link: http://www.dinancars.com/product/d140-0465-koni-adjustable-rear-shock-for-bmw-3-series-e46-2/) and TC Kline's ($264 a piece, link: http://www.tcklineracing.com/webdocs/Items/Details30.cfm). My problem with both was I couldn't figure out if they had custom valving i.e. would they have different rebound values for the same stiffness setting in the front, and if they break, who I would warranty through. In the end, since I don't plan to do too many events where I would adjust the rear shocks, I opted for the standard Konis for the price and knowledge of their warranty through Koni.

you have to call ground control re: the custom-valved rears... they do not advertise it.

also - i doubt those dinan rears are top-adjustable, for that price. also it doesn't say they are. :)



As far as bushings, I only did FCABs and RTABs, so I don't know about sway bar bushings or other bushings in the rear that Slater mentions. From my own experience, I have nothing but good things to say about the Z4M FCABs and Z4M RTABs with limiters. If I were to do it again I might go with the spherical RTABs from Bimmerworld. Poly is another option, but I prefer the slight give of rubber since it is a daily.

the thing is, though - you don't want flex in that location. that location is a pivot point - if it's flexing up/down, it is taking away from what the spring and shock are supposed to be doing. you want it to pivot, and that's it. that's why i harp on about the sealed spherical bearings for this location. :)

big :cheers

[BMWCurves]

you have to call ground control re: the custom-valved rears... they do not advertise it.

also - i doubt those dinan rears are top-adjustable, for that price. also it doesn't say they are. :)

Ah, makes sense. I didn't bother calling back then since most companies list their entire stock list on their website. I abhor human interaction (joke).

I remember reading from some other forum that the Dinans were top adjustable, but I didn't pursue it very thoroughly since they were more expensive and I didn't want to bother figuring out the warranty.


the thing is, though - you don't want flex in that location. that location is a pivot point - if it's flexing up/down, it is taking away from what the spring and shock are supposed to be doing. you want it to pivot, and that's it. that's why i harp on about the sealed spherical bearings for this location. :)

Yup. But I've had no issues with my Z4M RTABs w/ limiters and wouldn't hesitate to suggest them to other people. Sphericals are probably better, people just have to decide if it's within their budget.

[AggieBlake]

Peter and William, good heads up on adjustability requiring removal! I see he's doing that with the rear shocks. Do the Koni Sport front struts come with easy adjustability (bigger pain to remove those!)

And just to make sure I'm understanding what rear shocks you're recommending - this? It claims to be adjustable and the picture shows the easy top adjustment - same as I have on my Miata. Removal is not necessary.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001G9I1K0/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=DD22QK4X5HKX&coliid=I16GCDWY00P8RI

[Sockethead]

That's not a picture from a BMW.... the mounts are wrong

front struts come with a knob for adjustment that you stick on the top of the strut. Some strut bars interfere with access but most will be ok as long as the center of the mount is open

A pic: not a BMW but very similar

http://www.koni.com/uploads/pics/adjustm_8010_02.gif

[AggieBlake]

Yes, that's exactly what I've got on my Miata. I'm just trying to make sure I find one like that rather than the Koni Sport rear shocks that have to be fully removed to be adjusted. I'm finding the online descriptions on various sights to be a little misleading. They all say "adjustable" because they all are, but they don't clarify whether they are adjustable from the top with a knob like in your picture (and thus don't have to be removed), or require removal to adjust.

[slater]

Yes, that's exactly what I've got on my Miata. I'm just trying to make sure I find one like that rather than the Koni Sport rear shocks that have to be fully removed to be adjusted. I'm finding the online descriptions on various sights to be a little misleading. They all say "adjustable" because they all are, but they don't clarify whether they are adjustable from the top with a knob like in your picture (and thus don't have to be removed), or require removal to adjust.

yep, exactly. all off-the-shelf konis for the rear of the E46 are 'standard' adjustable, not 'externally' adjustable. to get the external adjustment you need to go to ground control or tckline. or... if you're daring... the 80s/90s 911 rears are externally adjustable and the same dimensions as E46 rears. :)

[Sockethead]

I just installed those Konis a few days ago. You have to remove them to adjust. I can get the numbers off the box tonight if you want...
The RE rear shock mounts are supposed to make it so you can remove the shocks without dismantling the trunk interior but I don't have them so I can't verify...

I know when I was getting my rear shocks dialed in (last time I had the Konis on) I had it down to about a 1/2 hr. to adjust both. If the Res do what they claim then you should be able to cut it to 1/2 that.

[AggieBlake]

Thanks Peter! That's exactly what I was trying to clarify. So the off-the-shelf fronts ARE externally adjustable? That would make sense since they're much harder to remove.

So when I talk to GC or TCK I'm asking for Koni Yellow Sports that are valved just like the off-the-shelf units, but that are externally adjustable - correct?

Interestingly, if I went with the standard adjustable rears and set them in the middle, I could still adjust oversteer/understeer characteristics by dialing in just the fronts at the track - softer to throw more grip to the front, stiffer to throw it to the back. Intriguing...

[AggieBlake]

Thanks sockethead (dude, I don't know to call you :)! That's helpful. Just to clarify - the fronts are externally adjustable, right? That would help!

[Sockethead]

Yep they adjust just like the picture I posted above. I'll take some picks of the actual strut tonight when I get home as I'm in the process of installing them right now.

My name is Rob :)

[AggieBlake]

Thanks Rob! Much appreciated.

Your machine-gunning cat avatar is oddly mesmerizing.

[Sockethead]

Yea I still get a chuckle looking at him.... he's been there for years

[slater]

Thanks Peter! That's exactly what I was trying to clarify. So the off-the-shelf fronts ARE externally adjustable? That would make sense since they're much harder to remove.

So when I talk to GC or TCK I'm asking for Koni Yellow Sports that are valved just like the off-the-shelf units, but that are externally adjustable - correct?

Interestingly, if I went with the standard adjustable rears and set them in the middle, I could still adjust oversteer/understeer characteristics by dialing in just the fronts at the track - softer to throw more grip to the front, stiffer to throw it to the back. Intriguing...

yep, when you talk to GC, ask them for externally-adjustable rears. they'll know what you want. you can get them custom-valved too if you want. and yes, the off-the-shelf front struts are externally adjustable.

you could do the adjustment like you said... however, why not spend another $200 and get the convenience of the knob on the rears? think of how many times you might want to do that at the track.

[BMWCurves]

As others have said: standard rear Koni shocks for our cars are adjustable, but not externally adjustable at the top and have to be removed to be adjusted. Standard front Koni struts are externally adjustable and are adjusted easily with the included knob like in the diagram Sockethead (Rob) provided.

Having futzed with the rear shocks to get them the same setting before putting them in, externally adjustable rear shocks would be very nice. I don't plan to track often (still haven't even gone yet) and because of that, I thought it worth saving the money to just get regular Koni rear shocks rather than the more expensive externally adjustable ones slater (Peter) are mentioning.

[Sockethead]

Here's the pics:

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160129/7e92b580bc9aa7d11819d4d92a2e4d63.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160129/1359972dc2a3400d4e2f49ddc168aa30.jpg

This is what I was talking about with certain strut bars... Mine has to come off to change settings which really sucks

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160129/51c2574cc7d9f6229907a33227761334.jpg

[Sockethead]

Here's the part number off the rear shocks

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160129/f25397ee186d09e899b572fcfccc7eb8.jpg

Someone was talking about how Bilstein sport is a shorter shock:

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160129/a864a86d0dfa125658d9e522c08194c6.jpg

Both shocks are the same height mounted in the car. The Koni has about 2" protruding below the pinch mount

[AggieBlake]

Sweet! Thanks Rob. Very helpful. I have my eye on an M3 OE strut bar for that exact reason - adjust without removing the bar (just the cosmetic cap). Now to find those Koni's on sale. Probably have to wait till March for that.

[3ZHP]

Check Tirerack for prices on the Koni's. It was the best I could find when I did mine years ago.

[BMWCurves]

Rob beat me to it, but the Koni part numbers are listed in the first post of this thread and are:

8741-1390RSPORT - Front right
8741-1390LSPORT - Front left
8040-1271SPORT - Rear shocks


Check Tirerack for prices on the Koni's. It was the best I could find when I did mine years ago.

Agreed. That's where I was going to buy them originally until I found them cheaper at a website/company I had never heard of called Race Consulting Agency who had them for under $500 shipped.

[ELCID86]

Good stuff going on here.


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46fanatic

[Sockethead]

I took the car for an extended test drive after swapping the shocks. I'm very happy with the swap. The suspension seems much more compliant. I have the Konis turned all the way down for now.
In all fairness, the old rear shock mounts were punched through and the strut bearings were getting a little rough, I'm sure that may have been a factor on the old setup.
The beauty is that if I start to feel that it's too soft, I'll just dial up the shocks

[Lorenzo]

Rob beat me to it, but the Koni part numbers are listed in the first post of this thread and are:

8741-1390RSPORT - Front right
8741-1390LSPORT - Front left
8040-1271SPORT - Rear shocks



Agreed. That's where I was going to buy them originally until I found them cheaper at a website/company I had never heard of called Race Consulting Agency who had them for under $500 shipped.

I checked race consulting agency and prices on site are $190 each for front and $118 each for rear - $616 total. How'd you get for $500? Did you call them?

[Vas]

Awesome. Koni sounds like a good setup

[BMWCurves]

I checked race consulting agency and prices on site are $190 each for front and $118 each for rear - $616 total. How'd you get for $500? Did you call them?

Someone spotted them on discount during Koni's last sale.

[AggieBlake]

Someone spotted them on discount during Koni's last sale.

For anyone looking to pick up Koni Sports, if you call Race Consulting Agency, you can talk them down some on price. They quoted me $550 shipped for all 4...

8741-1390RSPORT - Front right
8741-1390LSPORT - Front left
2x 8040-1271SPORT - Rear shocks

I ended up buying just the fronts from them for $360 shipped because I found the rears on closeout from a company on eBay for $68 each. But it was their last two.

Also I found bushing/mount prices to be best at FCPeuro. I bought Lemforder front strut mounts and M3Z4 RTAB's with a poly limiting kit. Total cost for all parts was $108 with free shipping - much less than I expected.

Hope this helps!

[Vas]

Thanks for the heads up. Koni usually has their sale starting in March which is when Race Consulting had the deal of $500 shipped for a full set of Koni Yellow.

[holyc0w]

Does the lower pinch bolt for the struts have to come out all the way?

[Vas]

No it does not

[BMWCurves]

It does not, but I did. When I did pretty much this same suspension refresh on my sister's 330Xi, I broke down and bought an electric impact wrench. Made the job go so much quicker, well worth the investment IMO.

[holyc0w]

Hmm...so it could've been finished. We had too much trouble with the bolt on one side, so decided to just do the rear and buy an impact gun. I also ordered these bolts:
https://www.ecstuning.com/ES49749/
Part# 31306779487

I think these are the right ones. They were a bit rusty.

[BMWCurves]

Those should be the ones, according to realoem.com:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=BD53-USA-02-2005-E46-BMW-330Ci&diagId=31_0518#31306779487

[holyc0w]

I ordered 2 front sway bar links. Mechanic noted one of the boots was broken. part# 31356780847

[anandoc]

@BMWCurves - I went through your parts list on post#1 and I see that for the rear suspension, you only replaced the RTABs. Any reason you did not replace the outer upper and lower ball joints?

- Upper ball joint: Where the upper control arm connects to the trailing arm
- Lower ball joint: Where the lower control arm connects to the trailing arm

Just curious as to why only the RTABs.

[BMWCurves]

1. I didn't know it was an item of concern at the time, nor had anyone really mentioned it.
2. There is no #2
3. I'm lazy
4. Money

But in all seriousness, I wish I had but at 55k miles, I think they're alright for now. I'll address them in the future for sure.

[anandoc]

1. I didn't know it was an item of concern at the time, nor had anyone really mentioned it.
2. There is no #2
3. I'm lazy
4. Money

But in all seriousness, I wish I had but at 55k miles, I think they're alright for now. I'll address them in the future for sure.

Thanks man! I was curious because I was researching a squeaking sound from my rear passenger side which could be caused by worn out ball joints. Your thread has become my go to suspension refresh thread but I did not see any mention of ball-joints and hence my question :)

[san]

Your thread has become everyone's go to suspension refresh thread

Fixed lol


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[BMWCurves]

Glad it's been a help to you and a handful of other people around here. If you do go through with the ball joints, let me know if that remedies your issue. I'll eventually update the thread if I ever do more suspension stuff.

[anandoc]

Fixed lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LOL!


Glad it's been a help to you and a handful of other people around here. If you do go through with the ball joints, let me know if that remedies your issue. I'll eventually update the thread if I ever do more suspension stuff.

Sure thing!

[BMWCurves]

I wanted to bump this to see what other parts people might think would be a good addition to a suspension refresh, such as end links, sway bar bushings, sway bars, etc, and what brands they prefer.

[anandoc]

I wanted to bump this to see what other parts people might think would be a good addition to a suspension refresh, such as end links, sway bar bushings, sway bars, etc, and what brands they prefer.

I just got a full rear-end refresh done yesterday. Your original list on the first page is good. Only additions I would make are:

- Rear outer upper and lower ball joints. Use M3 ball-joints (33306852895). Mine were completely shot which threw off the alignment and I was getting crazy squeaking sounds. I posted a video of the squeaking in the troubleshooting sub-forum.
- Rear Sway bar end-links (33551094619) and bushings (33551138104). Though, I am not sure if this was required but since I was getting everything else changed, I was like "might as well" do these.

Not a single squeak or clunk now. Car handles like new!

[BMWCurves]

Nice, thank you for the suggestions! Those part numbers are for the rear only, correct?

[anandoc]

Nice, thank you for the suggestions! Those part numbers are for the rear only, correct?

Yup, I edited my post above to reflect that.

[holyc0w]

Front swaybar endlinks
Tie rods - at least an inspection

Lemforder for both

[BMWCurves]

Yup, I edited my post above to reflect that.

Appreciate it. Is there any significant design difference between the M3 and standard ball-joints? Looking them up it seems that both M3s and non-M e46s use them now. And is it 2x of them per side (upper and lower), for a total of four?


Front swaybar endlinks
Tie rods - at least an inspection

Lemforder for both

:thumbsup

[anandoc]

Appreciate it. Is there any significant design difference between the M3 and standard ball-joints? Looking them up it seems that both M3s and non-M e46s use them now. And is it 2x of them per side (upper and lower), for a total of four?



According to RealOEM, on the non-M E46s, the lower joint (where the trailing arm meets the lower control arm), a rubber bushing is used from the factory (33326771828):

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=EV53-USA---E46-BMW-330i&diagId=33_0840

Whereas only the upper joint uses a ball joint. Only the M3 (and perhaps the Z4M) uses ball joints in both the upper and lower joints. My guess is that since the rubber bushing does not allow any articulation, it will wear out sooner. Slater might know more about this topic :)

Yes, you need 2x ball joints on each side - so a total of 4. The latest part number is 33306852895, which supersedes 33326775551.

[slater]

According to RealOEM, on the non-M E46s, the lower joint (where the trailing arm meets the lower control arm), a rubber bushing is used from the factory (33326771828):

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=EV53-USA---E46-BMW-330i&diagId=33_0840

Whereas only the upper joint uses a ball joint. Only the M3 (and perhaps the Z4M) uses ball joints in both the upper and lower joints. My guess is that since the rubber bushing does not allow any articulation, it will wear out sooner. Slater might know more about this topic :)

Yes, you need 2x ball joints on each side - so a total of 4. The latest part number is 33306852895, which supersedes 33326775551.

my name is slater, and i support this statement. ;)

anando, glad the car is feeling good! the M and non-M ball joints are the same. william (and anyone else), if you're replacing everything, it costs maybe $40 more to upgrade to the ball joints in the lower outer location - and the M Division used it there for a reason!

:cheers

[BMWCurves]

Thanks gentleman, I added those part numbers (listed below) to the original post:

Additional parts for a suspension refresh to consider:

Front sway bar end links (2x) (31356780847)
Rear sway bar end links (2x) (33551094619)
Front sway bar bushing (2x) (33556751269)
Rear sway bar bushing (2x) (33551138104)
M3 Rear outer upper and lower ball joints (4x) (33306852895)

[BADCLOWN]

I had H&R f/r sways on my first ZHP and it was the only suspension mod it had. Car handled amazing and will be going with them again next year for my current zhp

[UdubBadger]

I'm doing a mini refresh on the E90 M3. FLCA's, RTABs and new trailing arms (upgrading to ECS solid ones because racecar) and front end links.

Adjustable end links from Turner are a must if you are lowered. They'll last so much longer than oem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BMWCurves]

I had H&R f/r sways on my first ZHP and it was the only suspension mod it had. Car handled amazing and will be going with them again next year for my current zhp

Sounds like they were a good setup! I didn't mention them in the original post parts list on the assumption that sway bars don't really need "refreshing" per se like shocks and bushings do in our cars. That's not to say I am not personally considering getting a mild upgrade of E46 M3 front and E46 330Ci convertible rear sway bars. Just a slight bump in size. Or maybe a slightly larger set. Who knows :)

Currently UUC's SwayBarbarian kit (27mm front/23.5 mm rear) is 25% off if anyone is looking: http://store.uucmotorwerks.com/swaybarbarian-sway-bar-set-for-1999-2005-e46-330-328-325-323-all-variants-except-xi-p54.aspx


I'm doing a mini refresh on the E90 M3. FLCA's, RTABs and new trailing arms (upgrading to ECS solid ones because racecar) and front end links.

Adjustable end links from Turner are a must if you are lowered. They'll last so much longer than oem.

Sounds like that'll be a nice upgrade. And good info on the end links!

[BADCLOWN]

That's a pretty good deal on a kit

[Zaks]

Quick question for you guys... i'm thinking of going with the Z4M FCABs and most posts here (at least first few pages) say it increases caster. However, from photos I've seen (like the ECS attached pic) indicate the bushing hole is on the inside/center of car, which means camber increases, not caster... I assume some guys are putting in the bushing so the hole is on the bottom of the bracket OR ECS put them in wrong OR they're like that in the ECS photo only for the Z4M whereas they can be used in different orientations for other cars... thoughts?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170828/0591682df22d1b3e2868122376697a9f.jpg


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[BMWCurves]

Your logic makes sense to me. As far as I recall, the picture from ECS is correct. All I know is that after the Z4M FCABs I was able to get my car into proper alignment (including camber) except for caster which was increased.

[johnrando]

Hmmm, dont recall but I put those in and they increase caster. Heiu (sillieidiot) wld know as we did it together.

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[Zaks]

Your logic makes sense to me. As far as I recall, the picture from ECS is correct. All I know is that after the Z4M FCABs I was able to get my car into proper alignment (including camber) except for caster which was increased.


Hmmm, dont recall but I put those in and they increase caster. Heiu (sillieidiot) wld know as we did it together.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I made a mistake, which I assumed initially anyway :). In my head I was thinking the bracket bolts are on the inside/center of the car, but they're actually on the outside. Now I see exactly why caster is increased. All that talk and I went with AKG 95a poly bushings :)

[d-rod]

So much great information in this thread. I’m about to undergo this refresh due to worn out RSMs and 96k on original suspension.
This might be a dumb question, but the part #s listed are the same for sedans right?

[John in VA]

This might be a dumb question, but the part #s listed are the same for sedans right?
In most cases, yes. You can paste the part # in the PART NR APPLICATION SEARCH box at realoem.com, hit Search & it will show you the application of that part #. Expand the list to see the detailed results: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/select.do

[d-rod]

In most cases, yes. You can paste the part # in the PART NR APPLICATION SEARCH box at realoem.com, hit Search & it will show you the application of that part #. Expand the list to see the detailed results: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/select.do

Thank you for the prompt response.
I have another question;
I’m ordering from tire rack and from their drop down menu what’s the zhp considered ? Sport or performance ? Or is it the same thing.
I’m really looking to get the new red Koni FSD setup. Currently look like the rears are only available and the fronts will be available next month.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180606/e558e02a97ecae62f4660c07440cf771.png


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[John in VA]

I’m ordering from tire rack and from their drop down menu what’s the zhp considered ? Sport or performance ? Or is it the same thing.
I’m really looking to get the new red Koni FSD setup. Currently look like the rears are only available and the fronts will be available next month.
ZHP = Performance Package.

[d-rod]

ZHP = Performance Package.

Well thanks for your help John in Va! I ordered what I need to get this refresh going. The noise/clunk from my suspension is so irritating .


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[d-rod]

I received the rear shocks, they came with their own dust boot. Should I use the ones supplied or the new oem ones I have coming ? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180608/064bc198cee6baa78756432592176836.heichttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180608/ababe7ea5c08ccc38e0b9dafd40f8814.heic
Also I noticed this on the instructions, what do you guys make of it ?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180608/20ce4f89e79b878b342d012534412f6e.heic


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[san]

I received the rear shocks, they came with their own dust boot. Should I use the ones supplied or the new oem ones I have coming ? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180608/064bc198cee6baa78756432592176836.heichttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180608/ababe7ea5c08ccc38e0b9dafd40f8814.heic
Also I noticed this on the instructions, what do you guys make of it ?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180608/20ce4f89e79b878b342d012534412f6e.heic


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

About the instructions, I think it means the wheels shouldn’t be left suspended.


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[ZHPizza]

I received the rear shocks, they came with their own dust boot. Should I use the ones supplied or the new oem ones I have coming ? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180608/064bc198cee6baa78756432592176836.heichttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180608/ababe7ea5c08ccc38e0b9dafd40f8814.heic
Also I noticed this on the instructions, what do you guys make of it ?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180608/20ce4f89e79b878b342d012534412f6e.heic


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Use the dust boot that came with the shocks. And that instruction means to fully torque that lower bolt with the car on the ground so you don't preload the shock in a weird angle.

[trancenation]

Thanks for this helpful thread, I just changed my suspension out for koni yellows and i forgot what it feels like to not have blown shocks!

[BMWCurves]

Thanks for this helpful thread, I just changed my suspension out for koni yellows and i forgot what it feels like to not have blown shocks!

Glad my old thread helped!

Only things I'd update now would be consideration of a spherical RTAB by Bimmerworld (https://www.bimmerworld.com/Suspension-Steering/Trailing-Arm-Bushings/E46-E36-3-Series-and-Z4-Rear-Trailing-Arm-Bearing-Kit.html) or Moog (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?21496-sealed-spherical-RTAB-from-a-camry-!). Oh and maybe a bit about sway bars - I have a front M3 bar sitting in my basement that needs to be installed, along with needing to procure a 330Cic rear bar.

I'd also love to see how my suspension refresh compares to the one proposed using Sachs Pro Touring (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?23374-BUDGET-PERFORMANCE-SUSPENSION-GUIDE-(Ultimate-E46-OEM-SACHS-Setup)).

[BMWM3186]

Just ordered some koni yellows on sale from race consulting agency. About 530 shipped for the yellow and 430 for the special actives if anyone is looking for a deal.

[BMWCurves]

Damn, that's a great, price, only ~$20 more than what I paid six years ago.

[Will]

Just ordered some koni yellows on sale from race consulting agency. About 530 shipped for the yellow and 430 for the special actives if anyone is looking for a deal.

Wow, talk about a deal! I'd be all over those Special Actives if I didn't already have the Yellows, especially at that price.

[cakM3]

Oh and maybe a bit about sway bars - I have a front M3 bar sitting in my basement that needs to be installed, along with needing to procure a 330Cic rear bar.

Is this the preferred setup for ZHPs? I need to look into this since I am in the process of changing out portions of my suspension. I'm also looking to get a set of Turner rear lower adjustable control arms to install on my ZHP so the more info the better :thumbsup

[BMWCurves]

Is this the preferred setup for ZHPs? I need to look into this since I am in the process of changing out portions of my suspension. I'm also looking to get a set of Turner rear lower adjustable control arms to install on my ZHP so the more info the better :thumbsup

Not sure if it's the preferred, but I remember one or two people around here running that setup and being happy with it.

[Galapolis]

Is this the preferred setup for ZHPs? I need to look into this since I am in the process of changing out portions of my suspension. I'm also looking to get a set of Turner rear lower adjustable control arms to install on my ZHP so the more info the better :thumbsup

Springs and sway bars should be matched, so if you are running stock springs then you will want BMW sway bars like the ones from the M3 and convertible. If you are running Eibach springs, you are going to want Eibach sway bars. If you are running H&R springs you are going to want H&R sway bars etc.

[ZHPizza]

Is this the preferred setup for ZHPs? I need to look into this since I am in the process of changing out portions of my suspension. I'm also looking to get a set of Turner rear lower adjustable control arms to install on my ZHP so the more info the better :thumbsupYeah pretty much. There are three OE+ options for the front:

M3 coupe 26mm, straight tabs
M3 vert 27mm, straight tabs
Z4M 27mm, turned tabs

The non-m bars came with the turned tabs, so OEM end links can sometimes bind with an M3 bar.

And for the rear, the M3 bar will not fit on non-m, so our best OE+ rear bar is the 20mm from either an xi or vert.

I have the Z4M front + xi rear bars w/ lemforder links right now and they're great for street, but my car has been basically retired from the street so I'm jumping up to Hotchkis if anyone wants them.

[BMWCurves]

Yeah pretty much. There are three OE+ options for the front:

M3 coupe 26mm, straight tabs
M3 vert 27mm, straight tabs
Z4M 27mm, turned tabs

The non-m bars came with the turned tabs, so OEM end links can sometimes bind with an M3 bar.

And for the rear, the M3 bar will not fit on non-m, so our best OE+ rear bar is the 20mm from either an xi or vert.

I have the Z4M front + xi rear bars w/ lemforder links right now and they're great for street

Hmm...I have an M3 bar waiting to go in. Any advantage to the Z4M front over the M3 bar? I'd take that Ci/Xi rear sway bar, though!


...my car has been basically retired from the street so I'm jumping up to Hotchkis if anyone wants them.

And wth, ol' dog dick is a going to be treat exclusively in Hoosiers?