View Full Version : ZHP vs M3
So I have decided that I will be making my purchase at the end of the year.. and I'm TORN
Should I pick up a ZHP? (15k budget) or just get an M3? (18k budget if I do this)
What would be the pros/cons of each?
What would you guys take into consideration?
I like the M3 because.. HELL its an M3, but the idea of DD'ing tears me apart.. but DD'ing a zhp is not as bad.. also 4 doors sounds nice.
But I want to get back into a coupe. But I like 4 doors. But i want a coupe. HELP ME!
(also I know I'm not the most active person here, however I like this forum MUCH more than others, everyone's cool!
jwalther
05-05-2015, 02:33 AM
ZHP=DD
M3=Track/Weekend fun ride.
cakM3
05-05-2015, 04:04 AM
Keep in mind that even if you can pick up an E46 ///M for under $20k, you still have a car that commands $50k level of maintenance if you want to keep it in top shape. The ZHP is rarer than the ///M, easier to maintain from a cost perspective, and gives you a more "refined" driving experience. If you're looking for outright power and aggressive looks, then the ///M has it but will cost you much more in maintenance. Something to think about.
Another thing is if you think you will do okay doing most of the maintenance thru DIY.... keep in mind parts for an ///M is much more expensive than parts for the ZHP. Although in my case it does not matter because I have both the M3 and ZHP, I can tell you that it is much cheaper working on the ZHP ;)
slater
05-05-2015, 04:52 AM
ZHP is the perfect car for an enthusiast's DD.
peter
An M3 is a fine street car. But as noted, you will spend more on maintenance/repairs on the M3. The ZHP is a better DD no matter how you slice it, but it's not like the M3 is a full-blown race car or anything, it is refined enough with sound deadening/ heat insulation/ amenities. If you have kids, the extra doors of the sedan make life easier.
That said...
18K will buy you a decent-to-good M3, that will probably need a few things in the near future, if not immediately.
15K will buy you a <100k, vanos-updated, cream-puff, enthusiast owned, one-owner California ZHP, that needs... probably just a Coby wrap and shocks, depending on if they were done.
FL116
05-05-2015, 05:41 AM
ZHP is the perfect car for an enthusiast's DD.
peter
+1
cakM3
05-05-2015, 07:36 AM
I love daily driving my ZHP but also love having my ///M to drive on occasion when I miss that power :thumbsup It's like I have the best of both worlds having these two in my garage ;)
Sent from my iPhone5S using Tapatalk
stephenkirsh
05-05-2015, 09:17 AM
Danger of buying a zhp in this case is always wanting the m3. I never wanted an m3 cuz I want 4 doors and refuse to pay maintainence at that level. So if you'll always wish you had the m3, get the m3. Otherwise a zhp is pretty darn good.
fantinno
05-05-2015, 09:36 AM
It's also worth pointing out small differences in cost that add up over time for a car that will be a DD, I.e. Insurance will be more for an M than a 330i, cost of fuel, etc.
It's also worth pointing out small differences in cost that add up over time for a car that will be a DD, I.e. Insurance will be more for an M than a 330i, cost of fuel, etc.
Funny you mention the fuel cost. My m3 gets better gas mileage than my old auto ZHP. Fair point on insurance and manual to manual gas mileage.
stephenkirsh
05-05-2015, 02:00 PM
I get 25mpg DD commuting my auto zhp and 29 highway. What'd you get?
Everything you guys are saying is true.. I guess its a better decision to get into a clean ZHP instead. Thanks guys!
I get 25mpg DD commuting my auto zhp and 29 highway. What'd you get?
That's quite good gas mileage. I was getting 16-17 around town and 23 highway. M3 is 16-18 around town 25-27 highway.
danewilson77
05-05-2015, 04:24 PM
ZHP=DD
M3=Track/Weekend fun ride.
ZHP is the perfect car for an enthusiast's DD.
peter
Everything you guys are saying is true.. I guess its a better decision to get into a clean ZHP instead. Thanks guys!
I endorse this decision.
KevinC
05-05-2015, 04:45 PM
My ZHP is my DD, and my Z4MC is my "fun" car. I don't buy into all the hype about M3 (or Z4M for that matter, same drivetrain) maintenance being "much" more expensive than a ZHP. I've owned my Z4MC from new, almost 8 years and 57k miles now, and my maintenance costs have been very tame. Sure, BMW picked up the first 4 years, and the mileage is pretty low. But pricy stuff like Inspection 1 & 2, which require a valve adjustment, aren't so bad as long as you find a reasonably priced indy mechanic to do the work (or yourself for that matter), and don't take it to the stealership. What IS going to cost me soon is brakes - the Z4MC has M3 CSL brakes, with compound cross-drilled rotors, and the parts alone are close to a $grand, if you stick with OEM parts. That's definitely a big hit vs ZHP brakes.
An $18k budget for an M3, unless you get REALLY lucky and find that rare car that's been pampered, and all maintenance is up to date with nothing pricy coming due, will probably buy you a car with a lot of issues and/or upcoming maintenance being due soon. OTOH, for $15k, you should be able to find a REALLY nice ZHP, fairly easily.
Good luck whichever way you wind up going. The ZHP is a fantastic DD, a great alternative to my Z4MC, which was my only car for a couple of years early in its life, which I don't think I'd want to do again. But as a pair, they're hard to beat. An M3 could make a great DD too, even if your only car.
My ZHP is my DD, and my Z4MC is my "fun" car. I don't buy into all the hype about M3 (or Z4M for that matter, same drivetrain) maintenance being "much" more expensive than a ZHP. I've owned my Z4MC from new, almost 8 years and 57k miles now, and my maintenance costs have been very tame. Sure, BMW picked up the first 4 years, and the mileage is pretty low. But pricy stuff like Inspection 1 & 2, which require a valve adjustment, aren't so bad as long as you find a reasonably priced indy mechanic to do the work (or yourself for that matter), and don't take it to the stealership. What IS going to cost me soon is brakes - the Z4MC has M3 CSL brakes, with compound cross-drilled rotors, and the parts alone are close to a $grand, if you stick with OEM parts. That's definitely a big hit vs ZHP brakes.
An $18k budget for an M3, unless you get REALLY lucky and find that rare car that's been pampered, and all maintenance is up to date with nothing pricy coming due, will probably buy you a car with a lot of issues and/or upcoming maintenance being due soon. OTOH, for $15k, you should be able to find a REALLY nice ZHP, fairly easily.
Good luck whichever way you wind up going. The ZHP is a fantastic DD, a great alternative to my Z4MC, which was my only car for a couple of years early in its life, which I don't think I'd want to do again. But as a pair, they're hard to beat. An M3 could make a great DD too, even if your only car.
You have my dream car, Z4MC. I've been browsing that forum.. but I just cant bring myself to want to daily one. A friend DD'ed a roadster, seemed like hell to me.
ItsMeScottG
05-05-2015, 08:27 PM
The m3 and the ZHP are two different types of cars all together in all honestly. However, both the m3 and the ZHP are great cars. IT just breaks down to what you want/need out of a car.
KevinC
05-05-2015, 09:19 PM
You have my dream car, Z4MC. I've been browsing that forum.. but I just cant bring myself to want to daily one. A friend DD'ed a roadster, seemed like hell to me.
I would NEVER daily one anywhere in California - the roads are too brutal and you'd get beaten to death. I'm reminded of that fact (and of how awesome the roads are here in metro Phoenix) every time I venture back into SoCal in mine. Out here, it wasn't so bad for the 2 years or so that it was my only car, but the road surfaces are like pool tables out here, while California roads continue to decay and suffer neglect. But paired with a ZHP, and only driven occasionally, it's a spectacular car to have in the #2 slot in the garage. They quit depreciating 3-4 years ago and seem to be on a mild upswing of late.
I would NEVER daily one anywhere in California - the roads are too brutal and you'd get beaten to death. I'm reminded of that fact (and of how awesome the roads are here in metro Phoenix) every time I venture back into SoCal in mine. Out here, it wasn't so bad for the 2 years or so that it was my only car, but the road surfaces are like pool tables out here, while California roads continue to decay and suffer neglect. But paired with a ZHP, and only driven occasionally, it's a spectacular car to have in the #2 slot in the garage. They quit depreciating 3-4 years ago and seem to be on a mild upswing of late.
I noticed that, I'm thinking I'm going to with your route, DD a zhp, and have a weekend M car eventually. I don't think the newer BMW's will be longer lasting motors.. and I do not trust Turbo'ed vehicles at all anymore, especially fater my 13 vw CC. Man I miss my BMW.
stephenkirsh
05-06-2015, 08:28 AM
My ZHP is my DD, and my Z4MC is my "fun" car. I don't buy into all the hype about M3 (or Z4M for that matter, same drivetrain) maintenance being "much" more expensive than a ZHP. I've owned my Z4MC from new, almost 8 years and 57k miles now, and my maintenance costs have been very tame.
That's because you've only put 57,000 miles on it and have another car to soak up the DD miles and you don't live in California and you bought it brand new.
DD an M3/Z4M that you bought used at 60,000 miles to 150,000 miles in California and your maintenance will be a world of difference.
An S54 DrVanos is $1375. M54 is $275.
S54 water pump is $350. M54 is $100.
All major suspension components are more.
The list goes on. To park an S54, no they're not that expensive, but if you drive them a lot the difference between a zhp and M adds up very quickly.
ItsMeScottG
05-06-2015, 08:49 AM
The two cars really shouldn't be compared. The M3 and the ZHP are completely different rides, both being nice cars, however, completely different cars geared towards different people in all honestly.
WOLFN8TR
05-06-2015, 09:06 AM
Keep in mind that even if you can pick up an E46 ///M for under $20k, you still have a car that commands $50k level of maintenance if you want to keep it in top shape. The ZHP is rarer than the ///M, easier to maintain from a cost perspective, and gives you a more "refined" driving experience. If you're looking for outright power and aggressive looks, then the ///M has it but will cost you much more in maintenance. Something to think about.
Another thing is if you think you will do okay doing most of the maintenance thru DIY.... keep in mind parts for an ///M is much more expensive than parts for the ZHP. Although in my case it does not matter because I have both the M3 and ZHP, I can tell you that it is much cheaper working on the ZHP
Trust this guy! Charlie drives both and knows the cost of both to maintain.
If you have kids, the extra doors of the sedan make life easier.
That said...
18K will buy you a decent-to-good M3, that will probably need a few things in the near future, if not immediately.
15K will buy you a <100k, vanos-updated, cream-puff, enthusiast owned, one-owner California ZHP, that needs... probably just a Coby wrap and shocks, depending on if they were done.
Had both, a ZHP then my M3 coupe since my daughter was born 4 years ago it's doable. I paid $15K for my 2005 ZHP back in 2011 (recently sold it for the M3). I paid $17,500 for my 2005 M3 and it's in immaculate condition both inside and out. It just needed general maintenance items so far, oil changes etc.
It's also worth pointing out small differences in cost that add up over time for a car that will be a DD, I.e. Insurance will be more for an M than a 330i, cost of fuel, etc.
My insurance is $10 more a month than my ZHP was. Fuel cost is less with my M3, my Auto ZHP got 22/26mpg, my M3 gets 23/27mpg. Well this entirely depends on how you drive it of course.
But pricy stuff like Inspection 1 & 2, which require a valve adjustment, aren't so bad as long as you find a reasonably priced indy mechanic to do the work (or yourself for that matter), and don't take it to the stealership.
An $18k budget for an M3, unless you get REALLY lucky and find that rare car that's been pampered, and all maintenance is up to date with nothing pricey coming due, will probably buy you a car with a lot of issues and/or upcoming maintenance being due soon. OTOH, for $15k, you should be able to find a REALLY nice ZHP, fairly easily.
Good luck whichever way you wind up going. The ZHP is a fantastic DD, a great alternative to my Z4MC, which was my only car for a couple of years early in its life, which I don't think I'd want to do again. But as a pair, they're hard to beat. An M3 could make a great DD too, even if your only car.
I can tell you first hand the maintenance cost is at least double. Oil changes on the ZHP are approx $35 with oil/filter on the M3 it's $100, rear diff $30 vs $150, Vanos $300 vs $1500. I've had both and I can tell you there is a big difference in some of the maintenance cost. I DIY all my maintenance btw.
The ZHP is a good choice for a Daily Driver!
The M3 is a good choice for a fast Daily Driver!
Good Luck in your decision/search!
johnrando
05-06-2015, 10:14 AM
In SoCal, my experience has been there are pockets of bad roads (City of LA for example), but for the most part, everywhere I go outside of those have really good roads.
Well I live near LA, and frequent to LA, (I go to school at CSULA), and just DD a M3 will be extremely expensive for me regardless.
Everything will be DIY for myself, I worked my 2001 330ci myself and did EVERYTHING myself. My dad does have a mechanic shop and tools, and also I do get parts for cheaper, however there is still a huge difference as far as parts go. I don't think it would be a great idea to DD a M3 anymore, and insurance will be a shit ton more for me (turning 23 this year). Thanks everyone for your input, I guess I just needed reinforcement that a M3 DD is not smart for me atm.
E~ It also doesn't help me that I am already looking into modding a ZHP.
In SoCal, my experience has been there are pockets of bad roads (City of LA for example), but for the most part, everywhere I go outside of those have really good roads.
Roads near the valley are decent. Highways near the valley suck (5/405/118). I spend a decent amount of time in Granada Hills and OC and have chosen to either drive the SUV or fly and use a family car because the M isn't comfortable.
stephenkirsh
05-06-2015, 06:19 PM
Driving between LA and SF every few months these days, I would say 5/405 are much much better quality than what I have in the northern SF bay. :(
hardrivn
05-08-2015, 07:00 AM
All depends on what cars you find, if you find an immaculate stick shift M3 with great service history for $18K in the color you like, jump on it. Expect an additional $700 a year in maintenance over a ZHP. If you find the same thing in. a ZHP it should be around $12K again color, options, service history etc.
If you find an SMG Run away!
Brian M
1990 E30 M3 Sold 2014
2005 330CIC 6sp ZHP
2006 Mini Cooper S
2011 Toyota Venza my Snow and Tow vehicle
cakM3
05-08-2015, 07:11 AM
If you find an SMG Run away!
Brian M
1990 E30 M3 Sold 2014
2005 330CIC 6sp ZHP
2006 Mini Cooper S
2011 Toyota Venza my Snow and Tow vehicle
Brian, there's really nothing wrong with getting an SMG. In fact, if I end up adding an E46 ///M to my stable it will most likely be an SMG ///M. Everyone is afraid of the "SMG failure"...if it happens it happens... yes it does cost twice as much depending on which SMG component fails but that's why you have "reserves" saved for this case... if anything, it would be time to retrofit 6MT since you will be paying about half the cost of SMG repairs to do so. :thumbsup So I say bring it! :)
WOLFN8TR
05-08-2015, 07:47 AM
If you find an SMG Run away!
I take offense to this comment. [emoji15] My SMG M3 is reliable and fun to drive. Several other guys I know have zero problems. And you can do a 6MT swap for around $2,000 if you start having problems. All cars have issues even 6MT's.
cakM3
05-08-2015, 08:00 AM
I take offense to this comment. [emoji15] ... And you can do a 6MT swap for around $2,000 if you start having problems. All cars have issues even 6MT's.
fact! I have a friend who had an SMG ///M and he did the 6MT swap even though his SMG was still in perfect condition. The whole conversion cost him somewhere around the $2000 mark. Most SMG owners don't have an issue with their SMG ///Ms.... you hear about it because of the ones who do. If you beat the crap out of the ///M by doing launch control all the time then it's obvious you will eventually run into problems with the SMG. Beat the crap out of any car for that matter and you will eventually run into problems.... it's as simple as that...
hardrivn
05-08-2015, 11:09 AM
Fair enough, I didn't mean to offend the SMG Mafia, they drive well and must be robust enough as you still see a ton of them on the roads after 14 years. I just prefer the slower manual transmission.
Brian M
1990 E30 M3 Sold 2014
2005 330CIC 6sp ZHP
2006 Mini Cooper S
2011 Toyota Venza my Snow and Tow vehicle
UdubBadger
05-08-2015, 11:32 AM
That's quite good gas mileage. I was getting 16-17 around town and 23 highway. M3 is 16-18 around town 25-27 highway.
Bastard. I'm probably getting 1/2 those numbers.
GoingHAM mobile
UdubBadger
05-08-2015, 11:35 AM
Fair enough, I didn't mean to offend the SMG Mafia, they drive well and must be robust enough as you still see a ton of them on the roads after 14 years. I just prefer the slower manual transmission.
Brian M
1990 E30 M3 Sold 2014
2005 330CIC 6sp ZHP
2006 Mini Cooper S
2011 Toyota Venza my Snow and Tow vehicle
Don't apologize, he's just lazy so didn't want to use both feet! ;)
SMG isn't bad though, I've just heard it needed to be a little more refined (as it was in the DCT in the E9x M's) to be as effective and comfortable as it was supposed to be.
GoingHAM mobile
terraphantm
05-08-2015, 01:13 PM
It's also worth pointing out small differences in cost that add up over time for a car that will be a DD, I.e. Insurance will be more for an M than a 330i, cost of fuel, etc.
My insurance didn't go up much. $50 a year or something like that. Gas mileage went down about 10%.
Rovert
05-09-2015, 12:55 PM
I think that if you compare miles/$, both cars will come out similar in the long run. Any of those expensive things will be done once in a long while in general. If you have the extra cash and don't mind something costing a bit more..then get the ///M. I'm sure a driver of a daily Suburban spends far more in fuel than it costs to maintain an ///M. LOL
I think that if you compare miles/$, both cars will come out similar in the long run. Any of those expensive things will be done once in a long while in general. If you have the extra cash and don't mind something costing a bit more..then get the ///M. I'm sure a driver of a daily Suburban spends far more in fuel than it costs to maintain an ///M. LOL
I'm not so sure... Remember Premium Vs. Regular.
http://i.imgur.com/lsV5MM6.png
danewilson77
05-09-2015, 03:46 PM
I'm not so sure... Remember Premium Vs. Regular.
http://i.imgur.com/lsV5MM6.png
Fuel costs. Not maintenance costs.
stephenkirsh
05-09-2015, 04:04 PM
20 cents per gallon difference at $4/gallon isn't much of a difference.
Fuel costs. Not maintenance costs.
That's what was questioned, is fuel vs maintenance. ;)
20 cents per gallon difference at $4/gallon isn't much of a difference.
Not per fill up, but it adds up annually. It is .26-.30 here.
I'm was "just saying" anyway. I believe those are EPA numbers. Calculated actual is different. I've never been in a car that said it got 14 and have it actually get 14 mixed. Calculated mpg is more like 12. So if the m3 can hit it's target mpg, the difference would be greater.
All that said, you don't buy an M3 because it's economical lol. (Or a suburban for that matter)
Rovert
05-09-2015, 04:28 PM
A few weeks ago I was comparing my friend's ZHP last year vs my ///M. We both daily it, he fills up mostly in Canada where I gas up in the USA. LOL. We both came out to $0.13CAD/km for 2014. An oil change will be $40 more in my car, brake & transmission is about the same, and diff fluid is a bitch but it's got a long interval. A few parts for yearly pre-maintenance will be less than $400 more but that's about it for the year. Tires for an E46 are similar widths whether it be 17", 18" or 19". A lot of other common parts for DIY are similar pricing thanks to such a successful E46 model brand.
Mods on the other hand are $$$$$$ on an ///M. It befuddles me at times....it's just a ZHP with some extra power and rasp...LOL
terraphantm
05-09-2015, 06:05 PM
I'm not so sure... Remember Premium Vs. Regular.
http://i.imgur.com/lsV5MM6.png
For older BMWs (until F-series) the epa ratings are quite pessimistic.
UROTRSH
05-15-2015, 02:36 AM
Sold my ZHP after 5 months to get an e46 m3. Almost got an e92 m3, but loved the size of the e46 so went with that. I get better gas mileage in the m3 and the maintenance costs (just locked down the VANOS as a preventative measure) are absolutely worth it to me. I dd it in DC area traffic and wish I would have gotten it sooner.
WOLFN8TR
05-15-2015, 05:00 AM
Sold my ZHP after 5 months to get an e46 m3. Almost got an e92 m3, but loved the size of the e46 so went with that. I get better gas mileage in the m3 and the maintenance costs (just locked down the VANOS as a preventative measure) are absolutely worth it to me. I dd it in DC area traffic and wish I would have gotten it sooner.
[emoji41] [emoji106]
TWong1200
05-15-2015, 06:44 AM
Before buying my ZHP, I would've sprung for the M3 in a heartbeat IF if came as a sedan.
That said, if looking for a coupe, get an M3. If you must have a sedan, the ZHP is it.
I have absolutely no regrets. I love my car to death. Best "driver's" car I've ever owned.
slater
05-15-2015, 07:00 AM
Before buying my ZHP, I would've sprung for the M3 in a heartbeat IF if came as a sedan.
oh man... if there was an E46 M3 sedan, i'd sure i'd be in one too - and i'm sure the resale value would be crazy high!
peter
terraphantm
05-15-2015, 07:03 AM
Sold my ZHP after 5 months to get an e46 m3. Almost got an e92 m3, but loved the size of the e46 so went with that. I get better gas mileage in the m3 and the maintenance costs (just locked down the VANOS as a preventative measure) are absolutely worth it to me. I dd it in DC area traffic and wish I would have gotten it sooner.
Hmm, the one thing I miss about my ZHP is the gas mileage. Consistently got 60-80 more miles per fillup.
slater
05-15-2015, 07:14 AM
Hmm, the one thing I miss about my ZHP is the gas mileage. Consistently got 60-80 more miles per fillup.
i got 445 miles on my last tank - light was on for only 10 miles at that point!
peter
Trakes
05-15-2015, 07:40 AM
I was torn between the M and ZHP as well. I bought my ZHP coupe last year and I couldn't be more happy with it. I would have dreaded daily driving an M like I do the ZHP; the roads in Michigan are awful and driving one in the winter would have eaten away at me. Every time I get passed on the freeway by an M3, though, I start playing the what if game.
UROTRSH
05-15-2015, 08:57 AM
Hmm, the one thing I miss about my ZHP is the gas mileage. Consistently got 60-80 more miles per fillup.
I guess I don't have to wring it's neck like I did with the ZHP. I only do 7900rpm runs about once a week. I was getting over 30mpg on the highway one time. Couldn't get close to that in my ZHP. I'm sure if I drove it like I'm supposed to I'd get sub 20 all day
Rovert
05-15-2015, 01:27 PM
I usually get around 400 miles on the ///M. My ZHP I got at least 450. I drove Alexandre's Imola Sedan and that car reminds me of how solid and rigid the sedan is compared to the coupe. That's one thing I really feel when I exit a driveway I feel the coupe chassis twist as the windows creak against the seals. But then I merge on the highway at WOT and I forget about chassis rigidity because I'm occupied with getting my speed back down to sane levels. LOL
terraphantm
05-15-2015, 05:55 PM
I usually get around 400 miles on the ///M. My ZHP I got at least 450. I drove Alexandre's Imola Sedan and that car reminds me of how solid and rigid the sedan is compared to the coupe. That's one thing I really feel when I exit a driveway I feel the coupe chassis twist as the windows creak against the seals. But then I merge on the highway at WOT and I forget about chassis rigidity because I'm occupied with getting my speed back down to sane levels. LOL
Eh, I think the creakiness has more to do with the frameless design than actual differences in rigidity. My sedan had folding seats and still was less creaky than the M3 despite (and the M3 is likely stiffer than the non-M coupes since it has additional bracing).
On another note, is that 400 miles highway driving? That's the only time I ever got 400. Normally my mixed driving gets me somewhere around 280-300 miles (filling up at 1/4 tank). On my ZHP, I usually got 350, though I was able to do 500 once with a lot of highway driving.
Rovert
05-15-2015, 05:59 PM
I do mixed highway/suburbs driving with minimal stop and go city traffic.
stephenkirsh
05-16-2015, 09:00 AM
Eh, I think the creakiness has more to do with the frameless design than actual differences in rigidity. My sedan had folding seats and still was less creaky than the M3 despite (and the M3 is likely stiffer than the non-M coupes since it has additional bracing).
On another note, is that 400 miles highway driving? That's the only time I ever got 400. Normally my mixed driving gets me somewhere around 280-300 miles (filling up at 1/4 tank). On my ZHP, I usually got 350, though I was able to do 500 once with a lot of highway driving.
I think all sedans, folding seats or not, are still more stiff than the coupes. I'm sure I've read measurements on e46f, incase we want to go that route lol
terraphantm
05-16-2015, 12:49 PM
I think all sedans, folding seats or not, are still more stiff than the coupes. I'm sure I've read measurements on e46f, incase we want to go that route lol
Technically true, but the difference is very small if the sedan has folding seats. And thats not taking the M3's extra bracing into account
stephenkirsh
05-16-2015, 01:24 PM
Where does the m3 have extra bracing?
terraphantm
05-16-2015, 01:41 PM
Where does the m3 have extra bracing?
Rear subframe has a V-brace going to the chassis, front aluminum plate has more attachment points. Strut brace also helps. There may also be more welds, not sure on that part
Rovert
05-16-2015, 02:52 PM
Obviously not enough welds and bracing. LOL
stephenkirsh
05-16-2015, 03:00 PM
Doesn't seem like much that would strengthen the middle of the car where a sedan's B pillar is.
terraphantm
05-16-2015, 06:36 PM
Doesn't seem like much that would strengthen the middle of the car where a sedan's B pillar is.
Coupes have a B-pillar too. It's set slightly farther back, but it's still structural support.
stephenkirsh
05-16-2015, 08:50 PM
Oh. Hm ok. What is the cause for sedans being more rigid than coupes?
Rovert
05-16-2015, 08:55 PM
I just think that openings on a coupe are dramatically larger than the openings of a sedan. I'm thinking a frame on a larger opening is much more inclined to twist than a smaller one. Most sedans don't have rear fold down seats while coupes have fold down seats creating this big gaping hole for more to twist. But I like it because now I can fit my mountain bike inside the car easily. LOL
cakM3
05-17-2015, 03:40 AM
Oh. Hm ok. What is the cause for sedans being more rigid than coupes?
I'd guess that the location of the B-pillar on sedans are located pretty much in the middle of the car whereas on coupes they are further back.
Coupes, like Trevor mentioned above, have a larger opening than sedans which can contribute to more flexing of the body. My guess is that sedans are stiffer because of where the B-pillar is, which helps add to a stiffer chassis. I'm no engineer so this is just a guess on my part...
Sent from my iPad Mini using Tapatalk HD
BMW E46 Sedan (w/o folding seats) 18,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/folding seats) 13,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Coupe (w/folding seats) 12,500 Nm/deg
Rovert
05-17-2015, 06:33 AM
Wow someone is a brain. Haha
terraphantm
05-17-2015, 06:35 AM
Oh. Hm ok. What is the cause for sedans being more rigid than coupes?
Mostly there being sheet metal where the folding seat would be. For sedans that have folding seats, the difference is minimal compared to the coupe. Under 5% difference
KevinC
05-17-2015, 08:56 AM
BMW E46 Sedan (w/o folding seats) 18,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/folding seats) 13,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Coupe (w/folding seats) 12,500 Nm/deg
BMW Z4M Coupe 32,000 Nm/deg
STIFFY!
stephenkirsh
05-17-2015, 10:33 AM
. But I like it because now I can fit my mountain bike inside the car easily. LOL
Yea that's the only thing I miss from my volvo. Good thing my fiancé has an accord!
terraphantm
05-17-2015, 10:33 AM
This bmw document states that the M3 has increased rigidity over the standard coupe through additional gusset plates and weld points: http://e30.leenw.com/PDFs/M3%20Complete%20Vehicle.pdf
stephenkirsh
05-17-2015, 10:34 AM
BMW Z4M Coupe 32,000 Nm/deg
STIFFY!
Damn that's awesome.
I wonder what e90/f30 chassis are like.
derbo
05-17-2015, 11:53 AM
I need to figure out how to get that v brace on my car. The weld nuts are missing on the sedan.
Sent from iPad Mini
Rovert
05-17-2015, 05:13 PM
You just answered your question. Weld that mofo on and Frankenstein that under carriage!!
sillieidiot
05-17-2015, 11:10 PM
i'm pretty sure the sedan having that brace that goes across the b-pillars standard has a lot to do with it's rigidity. ever since i put that brace on for my CF roof install, my car no longer creaks lol now all i hear are noises from the broken door clips i was too lazy to replace.
cakM3
05-18-2015, 04:15 AM
I need to figure out how to get that v brace on my car. The weld nuts are missing on the sedan.
Sent from iPad Mini
I think jeppej showed how he was able to put that "V" brace on his epic build M3 sedan. You might want to check his build thread out...
Here's the link to his thread: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=578901 (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=578901)
derbo
05-18-2015, 02:30 PM
I think jeppej showed how he was able to put that "V" brace on his epic build M3 sedan. You might want to check his build thread out...
Here's the link to his thread: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=578901 (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=578901)
I remember. Thanks Charlie, I think he did mention that. I just need to figure out the pitch thread and how to go about welding in the nuts. :)
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10434756&postcount=1032
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