BMW 330 ZHP Vanos Rattle

[kayger12]

So here's the latest on my Vanos rattle and my attempts to get it repaired under CPO.

Ever since I bought the car, I have had the classic Vanos rattle. I typically hear it under load between 2,500 and 3,500 rpms, and exactly at 2,400 rpms in neutral.

I also have a leaking VCG, so my plan was to head to the dealer and get the Vanos replaced under CPO, which would also get me a new VCG.

Made an appointment at BMW of Atlantic City and dropped the car off at 8am Tuesday morning. Service adviser tells me my car will be ready for pickup by 5pm. At around 3:30pm, the service adviser calls to advise me that they're running behind and haven't gotten to my car yet. He calls back at around 5pm and tells me that the tech thinks he hears what I'm talking about but wants to try it on a cold motor in the morning.

Soooo.... service adviser calls me this morning and tells me that, "the tech is having trouble hearing the sound or recreating it."

Wrong answer.

I advise the adviser that it is not open to interpretation. The engine is rattling, and the rattle is coming from the front of the valve cover. I further advise the adviser that I will be coming down and will reproduce the sound myself if need be.

Service adviser tells me that he believes me and that I am welcome to try and reproduce the sound for the tech.

So I returned this afternoon to continue my mission. I went for a five mile highway drive with the tech and then returned to the dealership where we proceeded to pop the hood and listen. I was able to recreate the rattle-- amazingly exactly at 2,400 rpms like I had reported.

The tech admitted to hearing it, but then tells me that if he replaces the Vanos, there's no guarantee that the sound won't return.

I tell him that if he doesn't replace it, I can guarantee him the sound won't go away.

The tech agrees to plead my case to the service adviser.

They agree to replace my Vanos.

So, in a few weeks I'll be back for a new Vanos and VCG.

The moral of the story is, be a squeaky wheel and don't take no for an answer.

[pyreguy]

Awesome! I'm glad you stood your ground my friend. Well done sir.


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[Mtnman]

Winning!!!


Good job keith!

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Good result, KG. Too often dealerships steamroll over customers/clients.

[kayger12]

Thanks, gents.

I definitely got the idea that they were hoping I would just say, "ok" and go away.

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[adb1028]

Your Bi-Winning. You win here, you win there, now what?

[kayger12]

Your Bi-Winning. You win here, you win there, now what?

Lol- I suppose I'm do for a loss at some point.

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[danewilson77]

Boom! You're like a warlock! Winning!

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[Marcus-SanDiego]

Lol- I suppose I'm do for a loss at some point.

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Sorry. You're part of the mafia. It's all win all the time.

[johnnye23]

Will this be a new or rebuilt unit ? Glad it worked out for you .

[kayger12]

Will this be a new or rebuilt unit ? Glad it worked out for you .

New unit.


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[az3579]

Any don't don't you just do the anti-rattle kit instead of making the poor guy go through all that labor for a perfectly functioning VANOS unit? People have their cars in for actual problems that prevent the car from being driven... :p

I would choose to use a better aftermarket method than to replace with OEM which has a known issue which will inevitably come back. But to each his own I guess... lol




(I love bustin' ya chops, Keith. :biggrin)

[kayger12]

Any don't don't you just do the anti-rattle kit instead of making the poor guy go through all that labor for a perfectly functioning VANOS unit? People have their cars in for actual problems that prevent the car from being driven... :p

I would choose to use a better aftermarket method than to replace with OEM which has a known issue which will inevitably come back. But to each his own I guess... lol




(I love bustin' ya chops, Keith. :biggrin)

Yes, I'll have to do a Beisan kit eventually, but that'll be 5 years and 50k miles from now. In the meantime, I'll get my leaking VCG replaced for free and have a new Vanos unit.

Price of a Beisan fix now-- $200.

Price of new Vanos and VCG under CPO-- $50

Win.

[pyreguy]

Nice :)


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[danewilson77]

I have discussed, with Keith, advised, concurred, approved and signed off on it. He's doing eeeet right.

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[kayger12]

^^^
Proudly displaying the DW77 Seal of Approval :)

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[az3579]

I have discussed, with Keith, advised, concurred, approved and signed off on it. He's doing eeeet right.

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Oh no, not the approvals process... I have enough of that crap at work. lol

Customer: "Why can't you just install it?"
Me: "Because your approver, and our approvers, and yours and our approvers' approvers have to approve it..."
Customer: "I hate this place..."

:rofl

[ZHP-FTW]

Not to rain on your parade Keith, but the "new seals and helical gears" in the Vanos will most likely be bad in 15-20k miles. I hear yeah on fixing 2 things at once with less cost and no labor to you, but just saying... GL though, hope they fix it quickly for you.

[kayger12]

Not to rain on your parade Keith, but the "new seals and helical gears" in the Vanos will most likely be bad in 15-20k miles. I hear yeah on fixing 2 things at once with less cost and no labor to you, but just saying... GL though, hope they fix it quickly for you.

Yep- definitely not raining on it, I'm well aware.

Hoping that I'll get lucky and this one won't develop a rattle.

I know I'll have to do the seals again in a few years, but no matter what happens my Vanos will have 50k less miles on it.

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[Mtnman]

hey, thats $ and time you dont have to spend for a few years, which means you can buy all sorts of other s*** instead!! lol. perfect. maybe its time to buy the wife another purse....just to offset the recent purchases.

[kayger12]

Not a bad idea, David. :)


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[Mtnman]

Just looking out for you Keith. Hate to lose a moderator (cause we would really be the direct cause of the loss!) lol

[mimalmo]

Not to rain on your parade Keith, but the "new seals and helical gears" in the Vanos will most likely be bad in 15-20k miles. I hear yeah on fixing 2 things at once with less cost and no labor to you, but just saying... GL though, hope they fix it quickly for you.

I had mine done and the rattle returned in less time than that. Probably around 9k miles IIRC. Doing the anti-rattle kit is on my list.

[ZHP-FTW]

I had mine done and the rattle returned in less time than that. Probably around 9k miles IIRC. Doing the anti-rattle kit is on my list.

Yeah when I did my vanos seals Beisan hadn't come out with the aniti-rattle kit yet. :( I might eventually get back in there and do it when I need to change my VCG again.

[johnrando]

Interesting choice, doing CPO for basically free, or dealing with it on your own with the additional anti-rattle kit. Not that anyone asked me, but it seems worth the risk to go the CPO route because is its virtually free, and the new fix may not rattle. I'm knocking on wood and hoping I don't jinx myself but FWIW mine doesn't rattle so far (~40K miles), so it's worth a shot for the CPO work IMHO. I know the decision has already been approved, but had to put my .02 in. John

[kayger12]

Appreciate it, John.

I'm hesitant to do too much to her myself before the CPO is up-- don't want to take any chances at voiding it. As of October, I plan on going back to doing everything myself as I did with the 325.

[Mike V]

I bought my car with 22k miles in December 2009. In January 2010 at 23k miles, the 2300-rpm rattle decided to visit. After another 23k miles, it's still quiet with the Beisan kit.

[MiHiZHP]

First brought mine in to the dealer at 21k with the rattle (though I had began to detect what I refer to as "See, right there, do you hear that?...Listen....hear it?..Starts at about 1800rpm...right there..sounds like a paint can rattling" or just "mother$#^&*%!") at about 18k . Before taking it in for service, I had done some web research and discovered Besian/Dr. Vanos. So I figured best case scenario, I'll get a new unit with the oem seals and 'hope' that solves the rattle for another 20k or until the seals go bad, worse case they'll tell me it's a normal noise and tell me to pound sand. I suppose I ended up somewhere in the middle.

I was told by the tech that according to 'the man', the rattling noise is considered normal and does not effect the performance of the car. Which quite honestly was hard to hear, since while we were having this conversation in a closed dealership receiving bay -think polished floors and concrete walls- an environment that mocked me as I had taken to driving with the windows UP whenever passing through the tunnels scattered along I-70 heading west, I had my foot on the pedal revving it up and down from about 1200-2200, revealing the rattle in all its mother$#^&ing glory.

My reply went something like this: 'Yes, I can just hear the BMW engineers now... Ja, ja this engine sounds good. But it is missing something...Ah yes! Die Klappergeräusche!' Needless to say, I don't think I did myself any favors. Especially since I said it in my best German accent, described as a cross between Schultz and Dr. Strangleove. They ended up replacing some solenoid valves on the vanos adjuster, some gaskets, seals and a splined shaft from the vanos unit, whatever the hell that means. All of which I had a sneaking suspicion would not really help. Let me quote from the service invoice

after replacement, noise reduced but still existed. Per shop foreman and BMW FSE this issue well documented & considered normal on the performance package cars....told the cust to go %$^& himself


I added that last bit.

Son-uv-a....

Oh, it was there. Not as bad, but it was there...Is it getting louder? Seems like its getting louder. It is! It is getting louder!

Refer to paragraphs 2 and 3 above....Return to the dealer, 9 months and just a tick over 31k on the clock now. Only this time, I get a new vanos..SCORE! Take that 'the man'... 1000 miles later....wait..did you hear that...muthaf----!


So, the Besian kit is on the list, brakes come first.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Only this time, I get a new vanos..SCORE! Take that 'the man'... 1000 miles later....wait..did you hear that...muthaf----!

:rofl

[MrMaico]

Did I miss the update on how Keiths worked out? Rattle gone with the new Vanos?

Barry

[kayger12]

Hey Barry-- rattle was gone but is starting to come back already, just not as bad as it was before.

Low end torque/acceleration is definitely improved... for now.

I'm going to give her about 20k-30k more miles and then put the Beisan seals/rattle kit in.

[MrMaico]

Hey Barry-- rattle was gone but is starting to come back already, just not as bad as it was before.

Low end torque/acceleration is definitely improved... for now.

I'm going to give her about 20k-30k more miles and then put the Beisan seals/rattle kit in.

Thanks for the update Keith. Sucks that it's already starting to make noise again though. For the extra 10 hp we're supposed to have it sure comes with some tradeoffs. Vanos rattle, 2800rpm miss, 4000rpm power dip. Sad thing is, I put about 100 miles on an 03 330CiC 5 speed the other day and I really couldn't feel much difference in power. Handling was a different story, but it did have a winter tire on the back though. The DSC was lit up quite a bit.:biggrin

http://mrmaico.smugmug.com/Cars/Kathys-BMW/IMG0899/1260803909_vszptwj-M.jpg

http://mrmaico.smugmug.com/Cars/Kathys-BMW/IMG0894/1260802999_T6NHXDb-M.jpg

I was test driving it for my brother and SIL.....seemed like a nice car but she decided she wants an auto.

[webster]

bump. i can definitely notice the rattle from 2-3k rpm's. looking at getting the whole kit thing. yay.

i knew it was coming. and i've been spending on a lot of goodies since i got the car. time to take care of the important stuff.

[echo46]

I did the anti rattle and seal kits last weekend. Fairly easy job, just take your time. No more rattle for sure. Interestingly, my old seals were not yet plasticized. One of them well on it's way, though. I would recommend an impact driver/wrench to disassemble.

[danewilson77]

I did the anti rattle and seal kits last weekend. Fairly easy job, just take your time. No more rattle for sure. Interestingly, my old seals were not yet plasticized. One of them well on it's way, though. I would recommend an impact driver/wrench to disassemble.

Mileage again please.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[nike001]

One of the service department guys printed out a paper relating to my car and everything that was done (dealer-wise) to it and it seems my car was brought in 5+ times for the vanos throughout its life. I guess they kept sending my PO away.

The car still had it at 111,000 and I spend the 120 dollars on new seals and rattle kit. I think I'd rather do this and have it go away for forever.. then to complain and just have it come back ~20k later.

[echo46]

Did the refresh at 68,200 miles.

[danewilson77]

One of the service department guys printed out a paper relating to my car and everything that was done (dealer-wise) to it and it seems my car was brought in 5+ times for the vanos throughout its life. I guess they kept sending my PO away.

The car still had it at 111,000 and I spend the 120 dollars on new seals and rattle kit. I think I'd rather do this and have it go away for forever.. then to complain and just have it come back ~20k later.

Logic is sound here.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[das boots]

A quick question on Vanos...do they crap out without rhyme or reason or are they more weather related as in, say, cold or snowy states or to hot/warm states????

[nike001]

A quick question on Vanos...do they crap out without rhyme or reason or are they more weather related as in, say, cold or snowy states or to hot/warm states????

It was always most noticeable to me after my car was fully warmed up and was being driven for a while. It was really loud for me when I was just about home from my ~25min commute home from work

[mimalmo]

A quick question on Vanos...do they crap out without rhyme or reason or are they more weather related as in, say, cold or snowy states or to hot/warm states????

Doesn't seem to matter.

[kayger12]

It was always most noticeable to me after my car was fully warmed up and was being driven for a while. It was really loud for me when I was just about home from my ~25min commute home from work

This for me.

Not so noticeable when she's cold.

Very loud after she's been run for a while.

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