4 dr Vs. 2 Dr on the Track?

[M3TA5IN]

Any input on 4 doors Vs. 2 Drs at the track? Anyone that has driven both, feedback?

I am getting extremely close to a purchase and am torn between an E46 M3, a 330i ZHP and a 330Ci ZHP. Getting into the track area will be a big thing for me, so I am curious of the experience in the 2 door over the 4 door.

[Crickett]

Without having any experience in an M3 or 330Ci, I'd imagine that unless you have a reason you need four doors, an M3 would be exactly what you want.

[M3TA5IN]

Without having any experience in an M3 or 330Ci, I'd imagine that unless you have a reason you need four doors, an M3 would be exactly what you want.

I worded that poorly, M3 obviously would be the choice of a track vehicle. I am more interested in input on specifically the 330i vs the Ci.

Several things I am pondering before I buy... 1. Cost 2. Daily and track use 3. Insurance 4. Upkeep cost

M3 has a lot of low points in all of those areas, but it is so awesome lol, but I am trying to be an adult and make the mature decision of what I should get.

I really like the 330i and the look of it, I also like the rear space for passengers and 4 doors are always cheaper on insurance.

The 330Ci I assumed would just be better at the track, but looking through photos, seems a lot of people track their 4 doors as well.

[danewilson77]

Coupes actually have a lower center of gravity than sedans. I think coupes would be better suited for track. Sedans are better suited for sez.

[billschusteriv]

^^^^^ :rofl


I can't offer insight based on track experience but I will say that after having a 2 door e30 and Chevy Cavalier, I love the accessibility of having a 4 door e46. I know they are night and day - different body styles and what not - but the 4 door just seems to be the right choice for me. Hauling family and friends as passengers make a four door seem the obvious choice for my daily driver.

Good luck with your decision!

[M3TA5IN]

Sedans are better suited for sez.

hmmm, this is now added to the equation. I have to disagree though, although I have never tried to make babies in the back of a 4 door CAR, the fiance and I are somewhat of entrepreneurs in the back seat sexy time(insert Borat voice) department. Mainly because I am always gone for long periods of time and the drive from the airport to the house is a huge inconvenience. What I have found is coupes are best suited for such activities, because of the direction and angle of the back seat it makes for the perfect position. We also have a Grand Cherokee, which you would think would be more comfortable, but no, its actually not. With all that said this is a piece of advice for everyone... The back seat of a soft top wrangler is probably the worst possible place for sexy time to ever occur and I recommend that it is avoided at all cost.

Also, other factors play into these equations like size of the individuals, who gets top or bottom, and the exact intensity of said activity. I do not endorse these statements to be fact, only personal experience :biggrin

[jjcools]

Def an M3 for track use.

[danewilson77]

For me...."the sez" was referring to the visual aesthetics of the car...lol.

Thanks for the info though.

[M3TA5IN]

For me...."the sez" was referring to the visual aesthetics of the car...lol.

Thanks for the info though.


:facepalm lol

[Marcus-SanDiego]

You've got to be careful with Dane!

[Crickett]

Ah-HAH! I found the torsional rigidity stats (http://www.maseratilife.com/forums/modern-maserati/1158-torsional-rigidity-qp.html) I was looking for:

BMW E46 Sedan (w/o folding seats) 18,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/folding seats) 13,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Coupe (w/folding seats) 12,500 Nm/deg
(couldn't find coupe w/o folding seats, though . . . )

So, all else equal, a 300i is a bit more structurally rigid than a 330Ci. ZHP sedan FTW!

[static667]

I have heard that sedans make better track cars due to the more upright B pillar. It gives it better structural rigidity.

Sent from my Samsung Fascinate using Tapatalk.

[az3579]

Ah-HAH! I found the torsional rigidity stats (http://www.maseratilife.com/forums/modern-maserati/1158-torsional-rigidity-qp.html) I was looking for:

BMW E46 Sedan (w/o folding seats) 18,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/folding seats) 13,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Coupe (w/folding seats) 12,500 Nm/deg
(couldn't find coupe w/o folding seats, though . . . )

So, all else equal, a 300i is a bit more structurally rigid than a 330Ci. ZHP sedan FTW!

Wow, I would have expected the sedan to be less rigid due to having more "holes" in the chassis for extra doors...

Sent from my DROIDX

[danewilson77]

I want the coupe/sedan center of gravity data.

[kaboom]

Most cage builders find sedans to have a stronger unibody due to the b pillar as mentioned. But they also carry a bit of added weight, not sure how much.

The issue for me is the lack of affordable LSD. It really has me torn whether to invest in it and suspension for the ZHP or switch over to an "m".

Ian

[ZSP-Mafia]

Sedan surprisingly only weighs about 20lbs more than the coupe.

[Terry]

Ian, I used to bend and notch tubes in the past..Circa 2002-2003 I was in a partnership called Motion Engineering and did a handful of cages among other things. I can say that I personally prefer the sedan due to being able to simply open the rear doors and work inside..

Ian, I understand your concern with the whole LSD thing. It is vital IMO. Were you at the mafia rendezvous at the Spectrum? I ask because I do not recall us meeting yet I see my car in the photos you took. lol.

-Terry

[Hornung418]

Ah-HAH! I found the torsional rigidity stats (http://www.maseratilife.com/forums/modern-maserati/1158-torsional-rigidity-qp.html) I was looking for:

BMW E46 Sedan (w/o folding seats) 18,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/folding seats) 13,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Coupe (w/folding seats) 12,500 Nm/deg
(couldn't find coupe w/o folding seats, though . . . )

So, all else equal, a 300i is a bit more structurally rigid than a 330Ci. ZHP sedan FTW!
To elaborate on this, e46 coupes all have folding rear seats, thus one without them is non-existent.

If you look at all the big, German manufacturers Touring class of race vehicle, they are all sedans. I definitely think the sedan is a much better looking vehicle when in full-race dress.

So an e46 M3 CSL sedan, sunroof delete and non-folding rear seats, would have been the best track car in the time period...Pool our funds and build one from scratch? Take turns for 3 months at a time? My only request is that it get's painted Inka...fap fap fap :rofl

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Ian, I used to bend and notch tubes in the past..Circa 2002-2003 I was in a partnership called Motion Engineering and did a handful of cages among other things. I can say that I personally prefer the sedan due to being able to simply open the rear doors and work inside..

Ian, I understand your concern with the whole LSD thing. It is vital IMO. Were you at the mafia rendezvous at the Spectrum? I ask because I do not recall us meeting yet I see my car in the photos you took. lol.

-Terry

Ian was there early but had to leave before we saw you.

[M0nk3y]

I have heard that sedans make better track cars due to the more upright B pillar. It gives it better structural rigidity.

Sent from my Samsung Fascinate using Tapatalk.

Bingo. This is 100% True.

[danewilson77]

So....why do you think BMW engineers decided to make the E46 ///M3 only in a coupe then?

[ZSP-Mafia]

To elaborate on this, e46 coupes all have folding rear seats, thus one without them is non-existent.

If you look at all the big, German manufacturers Touring class of race vehicle, they are all sedans. I definitely think the sedan is a much better looking vehicle when in full-race dress.

So an e46 M3 CSL sedan, sunroof delete and non-folding rear seats, would have been the best track car in the time period...Pool our funds and build one from scratch? Take turns for 3 months at a time? My only request is that it get's painted Inka...fap fap fap :rofl

I've got a pretty good head start on this. :)

[Hornung418]

I've got a pretty good head start on this. :)
So you'll supply the donor car then, huh? ;)

[ZSP-Mafia]

Absolutely!

[Terry]

I really enjoy the practicality and sportiness of my car. For the record it is without a sunroof and folding seats (just like James'!). The E46 M3 drivetrain's mannerisms are well contained in this chassis...Very drivable and simply inspires confidence. You guys are most welcome to use my car as a model.. Even then you may find things to change / improve upon.

-Terry

[kaboom]

Ian, I used to bend and notch tubes in the past..Circa 2002-2003 I was in a partnership called Motion Engineering and did a handful of cages among other things. I can say that I personally prefer the sedan due to being able to simply open the rear doors and work inside..

Ian, I understand your concern with the whole LSD thing. It is vital IMO. Were you at the mafia rendezvous at the Spectrum? I ask because I do not recall us meeting yet I see my car in the photos you took. lol.

-Terry

Haha small world. Personally, I prefer doing cages on targa top coupes: TIG is the only way I role and fitting a torch and rod above the hoop can be a real pain.

Do you have an LSD in your ZHP?

Ian

[Terry]

LOL. I will not begin to disgust you with my stories of filling gaps via MIG ;)

The rear end is all M3... I'm under the imrpession it's a 3.64 LSD. It's the Rogue Engineering ZHP S54 transplant car (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?1066-New-member-owner-Orange-County-CA-2003-BMW-Imola-Red-Rogue-ZHP).

-Terry

[kaboom]

You gonna track it with me? I mean, I'll be an easy kill!

Ian

[jvr826]

Coupes rule, sedans drool.

/thread

[M0nk3y]

So....why do you think BMW engineers decided to make the E46 ///M3 only in a coupe then?

Because they based it on customer demands, not if it was good or not on the track.


Coupes rule, sedans drool.

/thread

I'll agree with this ;)

[Terry]

Hehe. I think they are all beautiful and worthy cars :) /argument :)

Ian, do you get out to the track often? I've taken a very long sabbatical. So I am what is refered to as a 'moving chicane.' Will you be going to Chuckwalla with the San Diego Chapter? I'll be there..

Terry

[Johnmadd]

Ah-HAH! I found the torsional rigidity stats (http://www.maseratilife.com/forums/modern-maserati/1158-torsional-rigidity-qp.html) I was looking for:

BMW E46 Sedan (w/o folding seats) 18,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/folding seats) 13,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Coupe (w/folding seats) 12,500 Nm/deg
(couldn't find coupe w/o folding seats, though . . . )

So, all else equal, a 300i is a bit more structurally rigid than a 330Ci. ZHP sedan FTW!

I just started reading this and hoped I would be the one to say this but oh well. It is true, I found this out when doing research a long time ago on e30's.

[Johnmadd]

^^^^^ :rofl


I can't offer insight based on track experience but I will say that after having a 2 door e30 and Chevy Cavalier, I love the accessibility of having a 4 door e46. I know they are night and day - different body styles and what not - but the 4 door just seems to be the right choice for me. Hauling family and friends as passengers make a four door seem the obvious choice for my daily driver.

Good luck with your decision!
And with a sedan that rear window is way easier to clean than a coupe.

[billschusteriv]

^^^^^ :rofl





I can't offer insight based on track experience but I will say that after having a 2 door e30 and Chevy Cavalier, I love the accessibility of having a 4 door e46. I know they are night and day - different body styles and what not - but the 4 door just seems to be the right choice for me. Hauling family and friends as passengers make a four door seem the obvious choice for my daily driver.



Good luck with your decision!

And with a sedan that rear window is way easier to clean than a coupe.

Just about everything in the backseat is easier to do in a sedan instead of a coupe. Cleaning windows, rear seat removal/wiring/stereo speaker install, vacuuming the upholstery/carpet, using a shop vac to suck up bugs that got stuck between the rear window and deck....the list goes on.

[wagerd]

Seems I remember reading an artical about e46 sedans actually handling a little better than the coupes. Only remember because I was surprised by this. I can't imagine a car being much more nimble or well balanced than my sedan, even compared to a 335 coupe.

[C Withers Media]

Four doors for more whores.

/thread.

Structurally more rigid, but if tracking is your concern.........Look for the car with the best driver and you will see the fastest car on the track.

[bcleaver]

In addition to rigidity, I think the weight difference between the two (330i and 330ci is like 20lbs or less). So I think in terms of which will make a better track car...they're probably about the same. So if you wanted to pick the sendan because it's more practical but didn't want to sacrifice performance, don't worry, you won't be.

[murph]

Yeah, I don't think I've seen any numbers to suggest the CG is any different between them, but if anyone wants to measure their coupe, my sedan came out to about 21.47".