Edumacate me on suspensions... [Archive] - BMW E46 330 ZHP For Sale Forum

ryankokesh

01-21-2015, 11:42 AM

Thinking it's probably about time to do a suspension refresh. I admittedly don't know a whole lot about the subject, other than I'm at 145k on the original struts and springs and I can't imagine they'll last a whole lot longer.

I commute about 100 miles a day, so comfort is a factor. The road isn't too bad, but still. I also like being able to get up my driveway, so I'm not going to slam it or anything. I'd obviously like how it looks a little lower, but yeah, practicality.

I don't track the car, but like all of us things can get 'spirited'. Considering taking it to a track day once or twice just for fun.

Finally, TireRack (http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/Susptabl.jsp?autoMake=BMW&autoModel=330i+Sedan&autoYear=2004&autoModClar=Performance+Package) has to carry whatever I get, and I'd prefer it be made by Koni or Bilstein.

Anyone have any thoughts/recommendations?

bshovers

01-21-2015, 12:43 PM

I'm in your boat as far as I don't know much about suspension. But what I can tell from reading various forums including this one it seems that koni yellows are good bet.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

slater

01-21-2015, 01:11 PM

Just_George

01-21-2015, 02:02 PM

I chose to stick with the stock springs on my 330Ci, not wanting to lower it (anybody who's driven Michigan roads knows why!) Sounds like that might be best for you as well. I went with the Koni Sports (aka 'yellows') - they're expensive, but the fronts are easily adjusted for rebound, which might be handy for the occasional track day. If you have 145 on your original struts/shocks, I'd guess that you are long overdue. FYI, when I changed them on the Ci, it wasn't really apparent how bad they were until I took them off the car and realized that they were completely toast, so don't be surprised if you find the same thing. Control arms and bushings really depends on when they were done last - might not be a bad idea to do them anyway, then you'll know that everything is up to date.

I installed the reinforcement plates on the front struts and rear shocks - they're cheap, and I found that I did have some 'mushrooming' on the right front strut tower, so hoping to prevent any further damage.

ELCID86

01-21-2015, 03:40 PM

... new front control arms...

peter
Why do the control arms need to be replaced? I can see the bushings, but to the arms wear? Develop stress fractures??

TWong1200

01-21-2015, 03:49 PM

I recently installed KW V1 Coilover, replaced Z4M FCAB and RTABs with limiters, Front and Rear top mounts and am very happy with the results. Handles amazingly well and is very composed. I'll look into my sway bar bushings next. Probably should have done them at the same time. Something I overlooked.

Just_George

01-21-2015, 03:59 PM

Why do the control arms need to be replaced? I can see the bushings, but to the arms wear? Develop stress fractures??

If they're original, the ball joints wear out and can not be replaced. The Meyle control arms have ball joints that can be replaced, well worth buying.

mbeckel

01-21-2015, 04:04 PM

I'm going with BC Coilovers and changing all bushings to polyurethane

Sent from in the bushes

Hermes

01-21-2015, 04:32 PM

FSD's sound like the answer here

KevinC

01-21-2015, 04:48 PM

sounds to me like new bushings (FCABs, RTABs, optionally the upper and lower rear control arm bushings, and front and rear swaybar bushings), new front control arms, new strut + shock mounts, and new shocks + struts. keep the stock springs. perhaps the koni FSDs would be a good choice for you (i am looking at them as well).

I think this is great advice. Other shock options: stock-equivalent Sachs/Boge (the route I chose, plus all the other stuff above). I did mine at 53k miles. The FCABs were toast, and the shocks were done too. The stock shocks are probably good for 30-40k miles before they're significantly worn. Koni Yellows will last much longer, perhaps 100k, and Bilstein HDs (another good option) are guaranteed for life (same owner) and are easily good for well beyond 100k. But 145k on stock suspension? Dude, you're not driving a car, you're captaining a ship! You won't believe the difference if you do the full refresh. Good luck!

ryankokesh

01-21-2015, 05:21 PM

I think this is great advice. Other shock options: stock-equivalent Sachs/Boge (the route I chose, plus all the other stuff above). I did mine at 53k miles. The FCABs were toast, and the shocks were done too. The stock shocks are probably good for 30-40k miles before they're significantly worn. Koni Yellows will last much longer, perhaps 100k, and Bilstein HDs (another good option) are guaranteed for life (same owner) and are easily good for well beyond 100k. But 145k on stock suspension? Dude, you're not driving a car, you're captaining a ship! You won't believe the difference if you do the full refresh. Good luck!

:rofl

Well you guys are at least getting me excited about a refresh! Apparently I was under the incorrect impression that it shocks/struts were a binary type failure item, not something that'll get progressively worse. Good to know!!

Thinking I'll probably try the FSDs. I have akg poly CABs, but haven't replaced the CAs yet. Should I hold out or just do it? I know our ball joints last longer, but not sure how much longer...

Thanks for all the input!

Sent from my iPhone

alexandre

01-21-2015, 05:30 PM

I did all OEM when I refreshed mine. Shocks + M3 mounts, struts + hats, control arms, Z4M bushings, M3 RTAB, tie rods. Ran me about $850 IIRC.

ryankokesh

01-21-2015, 08:29 PM

Anyone know how much the lowering would be from the stock zip height with the Pro Kit (http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/suspension.jsp?make=Koni&model=FSD+Damper+Set+%26+Springs&group=FSD+Damper+Set+%26+Springs&partNum=2150-4006&autoMake=BMW&autoModel=330i+Sedan&autoYear=2004&autoModClar=Performance+Package)?

Kinda thinking that might be a good option if it's just a little.

UdubBadger

01-21-2015, 08:38 PM

ryankokesh

01-22-2015, 03:31 AM

ryankokesh

01-22-2015, 04:56 AM

I installed the reinforcement plates on the front struts and rear shocks - they're cheap, and I found that I did have some 'mushrooming' on the right front strut tower, so hoping to prevent any further damage.

Do the reinforcement plates help if there's already a strut bar? Or is it a one-or-the-other kind of deal?

danewilson77

01-22-2015, 05:16 AM

How high can I get coil overs to be? (What is, a question no on has ever asked.)

Sent from my iPhone
Stock?

"No flamesuit required"

alexandre

01-22-2015, 05:52 AM

Do the reinforcement plates help if there's already a strut bar? Or is it a one-or-the-other kind of deal?

They both help. The plates are really cheap though, < $10 a side.

slater

01-22-2015, 06:26 AM

Eibach is the most "daily driver" friendly lowering spring to my knowledge.

If you're gonna do springs and struts together you almost might as well do a cup kit or just straight up coilovers

GoingHAM mobile

well, yes and no - i think a lot depends on the person who is piloting the car. some folks like a 'set and forget' type of suspension, which, as i get older, i kinda like too. BUT it has to be right. and in that vein (the vein of 'right'), rarely does one mention spring rate when discussing lowering springs - because i would assume that the ZHP springs have a very good F/R balance, and that the pro-kits would a slightly more front-biased spring rate (stiffer up front), as lowering springs tend to be that way - although the pro-kits, from previous research, have almost always proven to be the most neutral choice for lowering springs, rate-wise. i would considering the pro-kits if i could get the spring rate info AND my rear springs were toast.

coilovers are great if you can actually get the spring rates from the manufacturer (or you could just call up ground control and have them build you what you want). i just personally don't want to be changing the F/R rate bias as i feel the stock ZHP springs are actually quite amazing.

How high can I get coil overs to be? (What is, a question no on has ever asked.)

Sent from my iPhone

it depends on the manufacturer and model of the coilovers, but generally they do not go as high as they have a shorter stroke than standard springs and shocks/struts. however, with the ZHP being a bit lower than a 'stock' car, they might be pretty close.

peter

ryankokesh

01-22-2015, 06:34 AM

Hmm hmm hmm...

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but what's the advantage to coil overs aside from being able to adjust the height and firmness?

danewilson77

01-22-2015, 06:51 AM

That's about it. Ability to add camber plates?

"No flamesuit required"

ryankokesh

01-22-2015, 06:58 AM

That's about it. Ability to add camber plates?

"No flamesuit required"

So do you guys end up adjusting them frequently? Or do you get it dialed in and leave it? Just curious...

danewilson77

01-22-2015, 07:02 AM

Me? I can't leave it alone and change the stance about every 3-4 months.

The friendliest forum on the planet.

ryankokesh

01-22-2015, 07:42 AM

Me? I can't leave it alone and change the stance about every 3-4 months.

The friendliest forum on the planet.

:rofl

Does that mean an alignment every 3-4 months? Or does it not change it enough to warrant one?

UdubBadger

01-22-2015, 07:50 AM

Stock?

"No flamesuit required"

No it's gonna about .75" lower than stock which is like a microdrop. Springs are about 1.2-1.3" drops

GoingHAM mobile

UdubBadger

01-22-2015, 07:51 AM

:rofl

Does that mean an alignment every 3-4 months? Or does it not change it enough to warrant one?

No adjusting height doesn't mess with alignment.

I have a Summer and Winter stance but the point is you set it where you are comfortable and not just where the springs end up putting it.

GoingHAM mobile

UdubBadger

01-22-2015, 07:52 AM

And you won't need camber plates unless you decide you want to drop it 2" or more and stance the car hella flush with wide ass wheels in front.

GoingHAM mobile

slater

01-22-2015, 08:47 AM

No adjusting height doesn't mess with alignment.

sure it does!

peter

ryankokesh

01-22-2015, 09:15 AM

Just did a little googling... Apparently it does mess with the toe a little, but if the adjustment is within half an inch either way it seems the consensus is to not worry about getting it aligned. :dunno

UdubBadger

01-22-2015, 09:17 AM

sure it does!

peter

Not in my experience of lowing the last 6 cars I've owned. I nervously used to get alignments every time I dropped/raised the car but the values weren't changing any more than they would from normal driving.

GoingHAM mobile

UdubBadger

01-22-2015, 09:18 AM

Johal E32

01-22-2015, 09:33 AM

No adjusting height doesn't mess with alignment.

I have a Summer and Winter stance but the point is you set it where you are comfortable and not just where the springs end up putting it.

GoingHAM mobile

It changes toe, and it changes camber in the rear. At least, if you significantly change the height.. 1/2 inch or more.

danewilson77

01-22-2015, 10:01 AM

It does affect the alignment. No, I don't get and alignment every 3-4 months.

"No flamesuit required"

UdubBadger

01-22-2015, 04:56 PM

I've never made a drastic adjustment so never read out on the rack much different I guess

GoingHAM mobile

danewilson77

01-22-2015, 05:49 PM

I've heard 1" height change can yield 1° camber change.

"No flamesuit required"

M0nk3y

01-22-2015, 06:27 PM

It most certainly will effect camber and toe.

In the front, you'll gain camber and toe out. In the rear, you'll gain camber and toe in IIRC when you lower a car.

UdubBadger

01-22-2015, 09:24 PM

Horse = dead

GoingHAM mobile

derbo

01-22-2015, 10:09 PM

It most certainly will effect camber and toe.

In the front, you'll gain camber and toe out. In the rear, you'll gain camber and toe in IIRC when you lower a car.

Sounds about right.

danewilson77

01-23-2015, 08:54 AM

Horse = dead

GoingHAM mobile
Nope. Not yet.

"No flamesuit required"

ryankokesh

01-23-2015, 09:21 AM

So it changes the camber, but not the toe? :ducking

danewilson77

01-23-2015, 09:26 AM

So it changes the camber, but not the toe? :ducking
:rofl

"No flamesuit required"

ryankokesh

01-23-2015, 01:42 PM

Would you all suggest throwing a refresh kit on the rear?

http://c1552172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/232350_x600.jpg
http://www.ecstuning.com/News/BMW_E46_SuspensionRefresh_325_330/ES1897129/

UdubBadger

01-23-2015, 05:52 PM

Probably but not that one

GoingHAM mobile

UdubBadger

01-23-2015, 05:52 PM

Akg or go away

GoingHAM mobile

slater

01-23-2015, 06:50 PM

Probably but not that one

GoingHAM mobile

LOL, yep, i was thinking the same thing before i saw your response. :)

i definitely wouldn't use some of those bushings. i'm interested in trying the M3 outer control arm bushings in both upper and lower positions, and poly for the inners as they do not articulate like the outer ones do.

peter

ryankokesh

01-25-2015, 07:41 PM

UdubBadger

01-25-2015, 07:43 PM

for refresh, very. for "just cuz you're down there" not at all just to lower the car.

when are you due? they ever been done?

I brought mine to anthony

ryankokesh

01-25-2015, 07:50 PM

Well, I'm guessing they've never been done...

Sent from my iPhone

UdubBadger

01-25-2015, 08:13 PM

so just do um then, your car is older than mine...

ryankokesh

01-26-2015, 07:09 AM

so just do um then, your car is older than mine...

It looks so hard though......

I'm also having issues trying to figure out the logistics of installing a suspension and all these stupid little bushing while still having time to take it to a shop and get it aligned before I have to drive it to work Monday... Thinking this might have to go in stages. I might be able to handle a suspension on a Friday night, but not all that crap too... :facepalm

UdubBadger

01-26-2015, 07:14 AM

Fsd/eibach for sure dude. Hit up AKG for your bushings then with saved money.

Yeah that's a full day project, hope garage is heated.

GoingHAM mobile

ryankokesh

01-26-2015, 07:58 AM

Anyone willing to do a shopping cart sanity check for me?

http://www.mediafire.com/view/dxjk41z6db4mzmy

I should price out AKG stuff too... good point.

UdubBadger

01-26-2015, 08:24 AM

All bushings should come from akg buddy, best around

GoingHAM mobile

NoVAphotog

01-26-2015, 08:35 AM

All bushings should come from akg buddy, best around

GoingHAM mobile

What about the Z4M bushing option?

slater

01-26-2015, 09:09 AM

All bushings should come from akg buddy, best around

GoingHAM mobile

AKG does FCABs, RTABs, rear subframe mounts and diff mounts - but no rear control arm bushings.

whiteline does poly outer upper and lower bushings, as well as poly rear inner lower bushing... no poly inner upper though. poly would be a good choice for these inner upper/lower bushings due to their movement axis. that's what i am likely doing, with M3 OEM spherical upper camber adjust bushings in both upper and lower outer positions.

http://www.whiteline.com.au/do_segue4.php?make=BMW&model=3+SERIES&model_final=3+SERIES+E46+-+316%2C+318%2C+320%2C+323%2C+325%2C+328%2C+330%2C+ M3&vehicle=10%2F2001-2005

peter

slater

01-26-2015, 09:14 AM

Anyone willing to do a shopping cart sanity check for me?

http://www.mediafire.com/view/dxjk41z6db4mzmy

I should price out AKG stuff too... good point.

not sure why you have this in there, but this is not for our cars:

http://www.ecstuning.com/ES2581620/

also, i would avoid the meyle HD RTABs - go with the lemfoerder M3/Z4M bushings and limiters, or poly RTABs. i went with powerflex RTABs and have been pleased with them.

peter

ryankokesh

01-26-2015, 09:35 AM

Thank so much for all the help, guys. Really, really appreciate it! I'll do AKG for what I can and lemfoerder for the rest. The whiteline stuff looks great, but S&H was $80+ from AU!

Smilez

01-26-2015, 09:37 AM

If you need shocks or springs, maybe coilovers just let me know
:D

slater

01-26-2015, 09:51 AM

Thank so much for all the help, guys. Really, really appreciate it! I'll do AKG for what I can and lemfoerder for the rest. The whiteline stuff looks great, but S&H was $80+ from AU!

you can get whiteline stuff from www.energysuspensionparts.com - good folks there, i used to buy liquid (pourable) poly from them. they're based in TX, i think.

peter

ryankokesh

01-26-2015, 10:03 AM

If you need shocks or springs, maybe coilovers just let me know
:D

I'll let ya know, thanks!

you can get whiteline stuff from www.energysuspensionparts.com - good folks there, i used to buy liquid (pourable) poly from them. they're based in TX, i think.

peter

Dang man, you're just a wealth of info! Thanks!

UdubBadger

01-26-2015, 10:57 AM

What about the Z4M bushing option?

Great option but still rubber no? Akg poly will likely last longer.

GoingHAM mobile

ryankokesh

01-26-2015, 07:39 PM

AKG does FCABs, RTABs, rear subframe mounts and diff mounts - but no rear control arm bushings.

whiteline does poly outer upper and lower bushings, as well as poly rear inner lower bushing... no poly inner upper though. poly would be a good choice for these inner upper/lower bushings due to their movement axis. that's what i am likely doing, with M3 OEM spherical upper camber adjust bushings in both upper and lower outer positions.

http://www.whiteline.com.au/do_segue4.php?make=BMW&model=3+SERIES&model_final=3+SERIES+E46+-+316%2C+318%2C+320%2C+323%2C+325%2C+328%2C+330%2C+ M3&vehicle=10%2F2001-2005

peter

First of all, I found the whiteline RTAB in stock somewhere, so that's exciting! (at least they said it was in stock...)

Secondly, wanted to make sure I understand correctly... Since Whiteline doesn't do a poly rear inner upper, you're going with the M3 oem?

Finally, is it important to go with polly for everything else Whiteline/akg makes? Or not as imperative as the inner upper?

Thanks again!

UdubBadger

01-26-2015, 08:32 PM

If mixing Id be more inclined to go plot for the hard to reach type stuff since it'll last longer in theory

GoingHAM mobile

ryankokesh

01-27-2015, 04:32 AM

If mixing Id be more inclined to go plot for the hard to reach type stuff since it'll last longer in theory

GoingHAM mobile

lol, good point, but is any of it easy to reach? ;)

slater

01-27-2015, 06:27 AM

Dang man, you're just a wealth of info! Thanks!

no prob - i've been doing this for a long time. :)

First of all, I found the whiteline RTAB in stock somewhere, so that's exciting! (at least they said it was in stock...)

Secondly, wanted to make sure I understand correctly... Since Whiteline doesn't do a poly rear inner upper, you're going with the M3 oem?

Finally, is it important to go with polly for everything else Whiteline/akg makes? Or not as imperative as the inner upper?

Thanks again!

well, it depends on your goal for the car, and the location/function of the bushing itself. if it moves radially and not axially, poly is a good choice. if it moves axially, ideally you'd want spherical but that is not really desired on a daily driver (both in terms of potential NVH and of course, maintenance) - so rubber is really the only choice.

for the inner bushings, they move radially so poly is a good choice, but if there is only one bushing available in poly, i'd be inclined to go hard rubber (M3 or M3 group N - the group N stuff is pretty hard to get, i imagine) for those locations.

for the outer bushings, the non-M cars actually have a spherical/ball joint type of bushing in the upper location, but not the lower location - however the M cars have the sperical/ball joint in both locations. this makes a lot of sense as the upper and lower arms and wheel hub assembly do not move in the same axis (so poly would limit proper suspension articulation).

personally, i am going to be replacing these bushings this year and i need to investigate potential options for poly in the inner upper control arm location since whiteline does not make a bushing for that, however the picture they provide of the inner lower bushing actually looks like the inner UPPER bushing. for outer bushings, i will be using OE M3.

peter

UdubBadger

01-27-2015, 06:45 AM

Peter you hit the nail right on the head with most of those locations, though I still think the use of Polly is a even a far superior upgrade than the OEM M3 stuff. Traditionally stuff like power flex or UUC poly's obviously have increased NHV to a noticeable point but the AKG street stuff seems to have a lot less of that with the same stiffness upgrade from the rubber ones. Thats why I'm inclined to tell Ryan to go with those for a good amount of them. You are dead on (and I keep forgetting since I'm always on M3 mode in terms of how stuff is set up compared to the ZHP these days) that some of the suspension is set up differently so in those cases yes he should stick with what would be best fit for the ZHP.

UdubBadger

01-27-2015, 06:50 AM

lol, good point, but is any of it easy to reach? ;)

some of it yes, a lot of it you'll need a shop to handle but unfortunately these go bad so you'll be replacing them eventually anyway.

slater

01-27-2015, 07:49 AM

Peter you hit the nail right on the head with most of those locations, though I still think the use of Polly is a even a far superior upgrade than the OEM M3 stuff.

i think for the inner locations, yes - although i do see that TMS has a group N upper inner bushing. i'm talking strictly control arm bushings here, not RTABs; i think spherical is absolutely the correct choice for that location, but it is expensive and not a good choice for longevity - i like better performance but i also like low-maintenance (which is why i like poly so much! but you have to understand where it belongs and where it doesn't).

for the outer bushings, the OE M3 spherical/ball joint type is the BEST choice for articulation - and it's actually going to be stiffer as it's a metal joint, versus poly - plus it will last a long time, too! if that bushing fit in the inner locations i'd for sure use it there as well!

Traditionally stuff like power flex or UUC poly's obviously have increased NHV to a noticeable point but the AKG street stuff seems to have a lot less of that with the same stiffness upgrade from the rubber ones. Thats why I'm inclined to tell Ryan to go with those for a good amount of them. You are dead on (and I keep forgetting since I'm always on M3 mode in terms of how stuff is set up compared to the ZHP these days) that some of the suspension is set up differently so in those cases yes he should stick with what would be best fit for the ZHP.

yes, aside from the control arms where i've discussed the OE M3 bushings, i think the AKG poly is a great choice for all other locations (plus they don't offer any control arm bushings :) ). i have AKG poly subframe mounts and FCABs waiting to go on... (and a poly rear diff mount).

peter

UdubBadger

01-27-2015, 08:52 AM

:thumbsup

GoingHAM mobile

ryankokesh

01-27-2015, 10:03 AM

no prob - i've been doing this for a long time. :)

well, it depends on your goal for the car, and the location/function of the bushing itself. if it moves radially and not axially, poly is a good choice. if it moves axially, ideally you'd want spherical but that is not really desired on a daily driver (both in terms of potential NVH and of course, maintenance) - so rubber is really the only choice.

for the inner bushings, they move radially so poly is a good choice, but if there is only one bushing available in poly, i'd be inclined to go hard rubber (M3 or M3 group N - the group N stuff is pretty hard to get, i imagine) for those locations.

for the outer bushings, the non-M cars actually have a spherical/ball joint type of bushing in the upper location, but not the lower location - however the M cars have the sperical/ball joint in both locations. this makes a lot of sense as the upper and lower arms and wheel hub assembly do not move in the same axis (so poly would limit proper suspension articulation).

personally, i am going to be replacing these bushings this year and i need to investigate potential options for poly in the inner upper control arm location since whiteline does not make a bushing for that, however the picture they provide of the inner lower bushing actually looks like the inner UPPER bushing. for outer bushings, i will be using OE M3.

peter

So it sounds like I should be doing rubber bushings all around for inner and outer? Poly would be good for inner, but isn't available, and it is available for outer, but would limit proper articulation?

thanks again for all your help with this...

slater

01-27-2015, 10:19 AM

So it sounds like I should be doing rubber bushings all around for inner and outer? Poly would be good for inner, but isn't available, and it is available for outer, but would limit proper articulation?

thanks again for all your help with this...

yep, sorry - i tend to ramble on sometimes. for your application (and likely mine, too), get the OE M3 rubber (lemfoerder or BMW) inners (which are the same as ZHP if i remember correctly), and OE M3 'ball joint' style for both upper and lower outers (again, lemfoerder or BMW).

one thing we have not discussed is tools. :) this one looks like the BEST bushing tool i have seen aside from a press, and despite the crazy price tag, i am seriously thinking of buying one! it will do more than subframe bushings - it will do diff bushings, control arm bushings, etc.

http://www.kochtools.com/index.php?p=product&id=99

peter

ryankokesh

01-27-2015, 10:36 AM

yep, sorry - i tend to ramble on sometimes. for your application (and likely mine, too), get the OE M3 rubber (lemfoerder or BMW) inners (which are the same as ZHP if i remember correctly), and OE M3 'ball joint' style for both upper and lower outers (again, lemfoerder or BMW).

one thing we have not discussed is tools. :) this one looks like the BEST bushing tool i have seen aside from a press, and despite the crazy price tag, i am seriously thinking of buying one! it will do more than subframe bushings - it will do diff bushings, control arm bushings, etc.

http://www.kochtools.com/index.php?p=product&id=99

peter

Dang, that's a bamf of a bushing tool...

That said, I think I'm going to look for one I can afford ;)

ryankokesh

01-27-2015, 10:43 AM

ECS is driving me nuts...

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s3/sh/bad29aea-6f9d-4b8d-976c-a8a269a0a335/64e2ea1c3894d87d1c5e04db08c36dff/deep/0/BMW-E46-M3-S54-3.2L-Suspension-Bushings-Control-Arm-Rear-Upper---33321092247---Rear-Control-Arm-Bushing---Priced-Each---ES-57414.png

slater

01-27-2015, 10:52 AM

yeah, that's the inner upper arm bushing.

inner upper:
http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-M3-S54_3.2L/Suspension/Bushings/Control_Arm/ES258750/

inner lower:
http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-M3-S54_3.2L/Suspension/Bushings/Control_Arm/ES258740/

outer bushing (upper and lower):
http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-M3-S54_3.2L/Suspension/Bushings/Trailing_Arm/ES253001/

peter

LivesNearCostco

01-27-2015, 10:58 AM

I don't remember seeing a poly option for the outer control arm bushings. As someone else mentioned, on the E46 non-M, one outer is a ball joint and the other is a fat bushing, whereas the M3 uses ball joints in both locations. When I replaced mine, I put ball joints into both upper and lower locations. For inner I used stock-type rubber bushings. Ground Control (and others) sell spherical bearings for the inner but I didn't feel they were warranted for me and didn't know how much extra maintenance they might require.

If you buy after-market rear lower control arms (the adjustable ones) they usually come with a new inner bushing or ball joint pressed in. For the rear control arms, the inner bushings (or bearings) are pressed into the arms while the outers are pressed into the rear trailing arm.

So it sounds like I should be doing rubber bushings all around for inner and outer? Poly would be good for inner, but isn't available, and it is available for outer, but would limit proper articulation?

thanks again for all your help with this...

Johnmadd

01-27-2015, 11:03 AM

Dang, that's a bamf of a bushing tool...

That said, I think I'm going to look for one I can afford ;)

I make my tools with threaded rod and nuts and washers from home depot or lowes.

ryankokesh

01-27-2015, 11:09 AM

slater

01-27-2015, 11:10 AM

I don't remember seeing a poly option for the outer control arm bushings.

whiteline makes them... whiteline.com.au. but again, i don't think it's a good idea versus using OE M3 bushings in both locations, like you did.

peter

fredo

01-27-2015, 11:12 AM

Haha ... all this time I thought "edumacate" was a typo. It's a valid word. Now, back to useful suspension info.

slater

01-27-2015, 11:12 AM

I make my tools with threaded rod and nuts and washers from home depot or lowes.

Baller... pictures?

agreed, pics would be great. i've tried this before and it's been hit and miss. one tool to do them all, and not worrying about the tool breaking, is worth more money in my opinion. but i would still like to see your creation!

peter

Johnmadd

01-27-2015, 11:35 AM

I don't have any pictures right now of mine but there are diys out there. Here is one for rtab's http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1044146

ryankokesh

01-27-2015, 12:03 PM

Does auto zone not rent these things?

slater

01-27-2015, 12:32 PM

Does auto zone not rent these things?

they do rent out 'ball joint' tools, which might help... the adapters just have to be the correct size.

peter

LivesNearCostco

01-27-2015, 12:35 PM

Just checked out the whiteline web site and you're absolutamently right, they make them. But I only saw lower inner and upper/lower outer poly ones (and poly RTABs and FCABs). Didn't see any poly upper inner bushings on their site. Could be the inner lowers wear out faster, or just that replacing the inner uppers is a bit of a PITA. In my case, right rear lower control arm was easy to remove, whereas getting to the left rear lower control arm required lowering or removing the exhaust. Removing the upper rear control arms--I think that requires removing or at least loosening the diff.

They also sell rear lower spring pads for E36/E46 in 4 thicknesses. I might buy some to raise the ride height on my E36 M3. Already put some cheap home-made pads above the upper spring pad but a nice poly lower spring pad would be nicer.

whiteline makes them... whiteline.com.au. but again, i don't think it's a good idea versus using OE M3 bushings in both locations, like you did.

peter

slater

01-27-2015, 12:44 PM

Just checked out the whiteline web site and you're absolutamently right, they make them. But I only saw lower inner and upper/lower outer poly ones (and poly RTABs and FCABs). Didn't see any poly upper inner bushings on their site. Could be the inner lowers wear out faster, or just that replacing the inner uppers is a bit of a PITA. In my case, right rear lower control arm was easy to remove, whereas getting to the left rear lower control arm required lowering or removing the exhaust. Removing the upper rear control arms--I think that requires removing or at least loosening the diff.

correct, they don't have inner uppers. i will be dropping the entire subframe when i do mine.

They also sell rear lower spring pads for E36/E46 in 4 thicknesses. I might buy some to raise the ride height on my E36 M3. Already put some cheap home-made pads above the upper spring pad but a nice poly lower spring pad would be nicer.

yeah, i saw those spring pads too - very cool!

peter

CarbonZHP

01-29-2015, 10:04 AM

Ive done RTABs, engine mounts, rear Bilsteins, springs. Currently waiting to install my trans mounts. Next will be FCABs. Just picking away at all the rubber suspension things.

danewilson77

01-29-2015, 03:20 PM

Ive done RTABs, engine mounts, rear Bilsteins, springs. Currently waiting to install my trans mounts. Next will be FCABs. Just picking away at all the rubber suspension things.
Awesome work.

"No flamesuit required"

ryankokesh

02-27-2015, 08:02 AM

So finally got around to getting the Koni FSDs installed. phew. Talk about a workout...

Anyway, at first I absolutely hated them. There were actually awful. The car pitched back and forth A LOT... think a panther platform taxi cab that hasn't had a suspension change in 400k miles. Kind of. It was such a weird feeling I don't even know the right way to describe it. I literally started to feel car sick at times. Got in touch with Koni, and although they were nice about it, they were completely useless. They came to the conclusion that it was either too cold outside or I had used air tools to install it and broken something. I had resigned to the fact that I'd be replacing the whole thing again much much sooner than I had hoped :facepalm

Fast forward about a week, and it really feels great. It's settled down substantially, rides awesome on the highway, corners much better than before (still have winters on so haven't tested that part out too much) and is all around a really good setup. I'm honestly not a suspension guru or anything, but all I can say is I'm really happy with it. Seems just a touch lower than stock. And I can only assume the dampers didn't play well with the springs until they had settled. Think the alignment may have helped out a little too :dunno

Also, if anyone is on the fence about picking up a set of these, TireRack has them for a little over $200 off:
http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/suspension.jsp?make=Koni&model=FSD+Damper+Set+%26+Springs&group=FSD+Damper+Set+%26+Springs&partNum=2150-4006&autoMake=BMW&autoModel=330i+Sedan&autoYear=2004&autoModClar=Performance+Package

UdubBadger

02-27-2015, 08:07 AM

Good to hear buddy, less work to pull them and try again.

NOW YOU CAN AFFORD MY ROOF RACK TOO!

slater

02-27-2015, 08:11 AM

nice, glad they settled down, but that IS weird. really weird.

i'm kinda on the fence between them and the bilstein B12 kit.

peter

johnrando

02-27-2015, 08:13 AM

Glad they work out for you.

ryankokesh

02-27-2015, 08:35 AM

Good to hear buddy, less work to pull them and try again.

NOW YOU CAN AFFORD MY ROOF RACK TOO!

Afford.... yeeeah.... :shifty

nice, glad they settled down, but that IS weird. really weird.

i'm kinda on the fence between them and the bilstein B12 kit.

peter

Yeah, it was really really weird. Never felt anything like it in my life.

I've never felt the B12s, so I honestly can't recommend one over the other. I'll probably get the FSDs for the prius though, for what it's worth.