Top Tier Gas Thread

[derbo]

I just found out ARCO and Costco are part of the Top Tier standards now (I think summer 2014?)

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html


TOP TIER Gasoline Retailers:
USA
76 Stations
Aloha Petroleum
ARCO
Beacon
BP
Chevron
Conoco
Costco Wholesale
CountryMark
Diamond Shamrock
Entec Stations
Express Convenience Centers
Exxon
Hawaii Fueling Network (HFN)
Holiday Stationstores
Kwik Trip / Kwik Star
MFA Oil Co.
Mobil
Ohana Fuels
Phillips 66
QuikTrip
Road Ranger
Shamrock
Shell
Sinclair
Suncor Energy Inc
SuperAmerica
Texaco
Tri-Par Oil Co.
Valero



Anyone have insight on how the top tier fuel standard is "acquired"? I'm curious now why I should pay for Shell or Chevron if ARCO and Costco now meet the requirements assigned by the Top Tier standard that has BMW as one of it's founders.

From a quick spin around google, gasoline itself is shared amongst most of the stations but its the additives that define the specific blend sold.

[KevinC]

I remember when this list was only 6-8 names long. Now the question should be who is NOT on the list? Seems that virtually every oil company/warehouse/convenience chain is in.

Curiously, one on that very short list I remember was QwikTrip, the only name that wasn't a major oil name. I did a lookup and found that the toptier domain name owner showed the same address as QwikTrip headquarters, implying that they were somehow running or controlling the program. Weird.

[stephenkirsh]

I think more importantly, we need to DEFINE WHAT TOP TIER GAS IS before bothering with a list.

Do we have any information on that?

[derbo]

I think more importantly, we need to DEFINE WHAT TOP TIER GAS IS before bothering with a list.

Do we have any information on that?

The website I link shows more information about Top Tier Standard. How it is achieved is probably the difference between Chevron and Costco/Arco. I will dig more and read the bottom FAQ I pasted from the website.


Top Tier Detergent Gasoline

TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is the premier standard for gasoline performance. Seven of the world's top automakers, BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz and Audi recognize that the current EPA minimum detergent requirements do not go far enough to ensure optimal engine performance.

Since the minimum additive performance standards were first established by EPA in 1995, most gasoline marketers have actually reduced the concentration level of detergent additive in their gasoline by up to 50%. As a result, the ability of a vehicle to maintain stringent Tier 2 emission standards have been hampered, leading to engine deposits which can have a big impact on in-use emissions and driver satisfaction.

These automakers have raised the bar. TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline help drivers avoid lower quality gasoline which can leave deposits on critical engine parts, which reduces engine performance. That's something both drivers and automakers want to avoid.





Top Tier Gasoline
Home Retailers Why Top Tier Deposit Control FAQs


Deposit Control Standards

This technical document describes the deposit control performance of unleaded gasoline at the retail level that minimizes deposits on fuel injectors, intake valves, and combustion chambers. These standards comprise the requirements for TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline.

Standards

1.1 Retail Gasoline Performance Standards. The deposit control performance of unleaded gasoline conforming to section 1 of this document shall be met at the retail level in all grades of gasoline sold by a fuel company in all marketing areas of a selected nation. In addition, conformance to the standards shall mean gasoline sold in the selected nation shall not contain metallic additives, including methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (MMT).

1.2 Deposit Control Additive Requirements. The deposit control additive used to meet the performance Standards described in 1.3 shall meet the substantially similar definition under Section 211(f) of the Clean Air Act. Also, the additive shall be certified to have met the minimum deposit control requirements established by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in 40 CFR Part 80. Lastly, the additive shall be registered with the EPA in accordance with 40 CFR Part 79.

1.3 Deposit Control Initial Performance Standards. Initial deposit control performance shall be demonstrated using the tests shown below.

1.3.1 Intake Valve Keep Clean Performance Standard.

1.3.1.1 Test Method. Intake valve deposit (IVD) keep clean performance shall be demonstrated using ASTM D 6201, Standard Test Method for Dynamometer Evaluation of Unleaded Spark-lgnition Engine Fuel for Intake Valve Deposit Formation. Tests demonstrating base fuel minimum deposit level (1.3.1.2) and additive performance (1.3.1.3) shall be conducted using the same engine block and cylinder head. All results shall be derived from operationally valid tests in accordance with the test validation criteria of ASTM D 6201. IVD results shall be reported for individual valves and as an average of all valves.

1.3.1.2 Base Fuel. The base fuel shall conform to ASTM D 4814 and shall contain commercial fuel grade ethanol conforming to ASTM D 4806. All gasoline blend stocks used to formulate the base fuel shall be representative of normal U.S. refinery operations and shall be derived from conversion units downstream of distillation. Butanes and pentanes are allowed for vapor pressure adjustment. The use of chemical streams is prohibited. The base fuel shall have the following specific properties after the addition of ethanol:

Contain enough denatured ethanol such that the actual ethanol content is no less than 8.0 and no more than 10.0 volume percent.
Contain no less than 8 volume percent olefins. At least 75% of the olefins shall be derived from FCC gasoline as defined by CARB (advisory letter, April 19, 2001).
Contain no less than 28 volume percent aromatics as measured by ASTM D 1319 or D 5580.
Contain no less than 24 mg/kg sulfur as measured by ASTM D 2622 or D 5453. At least 60% of the sulfur shall be derived from FCC blend stock.
Produce a 90% evaporation distillation temperature no less than 290F. as measured by ASTM D 86.
Produce IVD no less than 500 mg averaged over all intake valves.
1.3.1.3 Demonstration of Performance. The base fuel from 1.3.1.2 shall contain enough deposit control additive such the IVD is no more than 50 mg averaged over all intake valves. Results for individual valves and an average shall be reported. The unwashed gum level of the fuel containing deposit control additive shall be determined according to ASTM D 381 and reported.

1.3.2 Combustion Chamber Deposit Performance Standard.

1.3.2.1 Test Method. Combustion chamber deposits (CCD) shall be collected and weighed along with IVD using ASTM D 6201, Standard Test Method for Dynamometer Evaluation of Unleaded Spark-Ignition Engine Fuel for Intake Valve Deposit Formation. ASTM D 6201 does not contain a procedure for collecting and measuring CCD. Adapting a scrape and weigh procedure developed by CARB is recommended (see referenced test method dated March 12, 1999). Results for individual cylinders and an average shall be reported.

1.3.2.2 Base Fuel. Combustion chamber deposits shall be measured for the base fuel from 1.3.1.2.

1.3.2.3 Demonstration of Performance. The base fuel from 1.3.1.2 treated with additive at the concentration meeting the standard found in 1.3.1.3 shall not result in more than 140% of the average CCD weight for the base fuel without additive.

1.3.3 Fuel Injector Fouling Performance Standard.

1.3.3.1 Test Method. Fuel injector fouling shall be measured using the TOP TIER fuel injector fouling vehicle test available from GM. GM will run the test on a first-come-first-served basis and shall make the method available to those who wish to run the test on their own.

1.3.3.2 Base Fuel. Two options for base fuel are available:

1.3.3.2.1 Option 1. A full boiling range hydrocarbon gasoline or gasoline blending component, without oxygenates and without deposit control additives, that results in at least five inoperative injectors when tested by the method in 1.3.3.1.

1.3.3.2.2 Option 2. Federal emissions test gasoline specified in DFR 86.113-04, into which 4-methylbenzenethiol (WARNING: Flammable solid; irritant) has been blended at a concentration of 56 mg/L. The blended fuel must result in at least four inoperative injectors when tested by the method in 1.3.3.1. the Federal emissions gasoline, without deposit control additives, available from
Haltermann Solutions
15635 Jacintoport Blvd.
Stolt Building, Second Floor
Houston, TX 77015
800-696-2542
www.haltermannsolutions.com
1.3.3.3 Demonstration of Performance. A demonstration of injector fouling shall be done first. At least five out of six injectors (with Option 1) or at least four out of six injectors (with Option 2) shall be inoperative for the test to be valid. A demonstration of additive performance shall be done after the fouling tendency demonstration; no other test shall be conducted on the vehicle in the interim. A demonstration of additive performance shall be conducted using the same vehicle (including the fuel drain and flush procedures and installing new injectors) with the same batch of base fuel, but now containing the same amount of deposit control additive as in 1.3.1.3. A pass is defined as no more than one inoperative injector.

1.3.4 Determination of Deposit Control Additive Performance Concentration.

1.3.4.1 Methodology. The concentration of deposit control additive needed to meet the standards in 1.3.1.3 and 1.3.3.3 should be equivalent. However, if the concentration of deposit control additive in 1.3.3.3 is grater than in 1.3.1.3m the higher value shall be regarded as meeting both standards. Also, if the difference between the two concentrations is grater than 15%, 1.3.2.3 shall be repeated using the higher concentration.

1.3.5 Intake Valve Sticking Performance Standard.

1.3.5.1 Test Method. Intake valve sticking tendency shall be determined using either the 1.9 L Volkswagen engine (Wasserboxer according to CEC F-16-T-96) or the 5.0 L 1990-95 General Motors V-8 engine (SWRI IVS test). Two options are available for demonstrating intake valve sticking tendency.

1.3.5.2 Option 1. The valve-sticking tendency of the test fuel by itself will not have to be demonstrated prior to testing the candidate additive. The following shall be required of all tests:

Test fuel shall be either the same as in 1.3.1.2 or CEC valve sticking reference fuel.
Concentration of deposit control additive in the test fuel shall be at least twice the amount determined in 1.3.4.1.
Test temperature shall be -20°C.
Three 16-hr cold soak cycles, each followed by a compression pressure check, shall constitute a complete test.
1.3.5.2.1 Demonstration of Performance. A pass shall result in no stuck valves during any of the three cold starts. A stuck valve is defined as one in which the cylinder pressure is less than 80% of the normal average cylinder compression pressure.

1.3.5.3 Option 2. The valve-sticking tendency of the test fuel together with an additive known to cause valve sticking shall be demonstrated prior to testing the candidate additive. The following shall be required of all tests:

Test fuel shall be either the same as in 1.3.1.2 or CEC valve sticking test reference fuel.
An additive known to cause valve sticking shall be selected, and, when blended into test fuel, shall demonstrate valve sticking tendency as follows: (a) for the Volkswagen engine, at least two valves shall be stuck; (b) for the GM engine, at least three valves shall be stuck.
Test demonstrating performance of the candidate additive shall be conducted at a concentration that is at least three times the amount determined in 1.3.4.1.
Test temperature shall be -20°C.
One 16-hr cold soak cycle followed by a compression pressure check shall constitute a complete test.
1.3.5.3.1 Demonstration of Performance. A pass shall result in no stuck valves during the cold start. A stuck valve is defined as one in which cylinder compression is less than 80% of the normal average cylinder compression pressure.

| HOME | RETAILERS | WHY TOP TIER | DEPOSIT CONTROL |






This technical document describes the deposit control performance of unleaded gasoline at the retail level that minimizes deposits on fuel injectors, intake valves, and combustion chambers.

[3ZHP]

When I first bought my ZHP 8+ years ago, I was unaware of the difference. Then, after some warranty work the service writer ask, what gas I was using. I replied what ever is the cheapest. And he replied try Shell. Before I blew him off because of the premium cost, I checked shell.com to see if there was a difference. Been using nothing but V-Power ever since.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[danewilson77]

Quiet moments with Jim Conforti speaks to using Shell. Only Shell. Never anything else.

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6885

"No flamesuit required"

[ELCID86]

I'm suprised to see Valero on the list. I've always avoided them here as I figured it was "cheap gas". I suppose it is now an option.

[johnrando]

I didn't realize Valero was Venezuelan, and given what's been going on with the government, I'd pass on their gas.

[3ZHP]

Quiet moments with Jim Conforti speaks to using Shell. Only Shell. Never anything else.

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6885

"No flamesuit required"

Had mine flashed at the dealer a few years ago and haven't experienced the DIP ever since. And that was before and after my DISA was changed out. Is it the V-Power?? Don't know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[danewilson77]

Yes. V-Power.

The friendliest forum on the planet.

[SoCalZman]

We've been discussing Costco as Top Tier gas for awhile now. I have been using it for a few months now since getting my membership and the car has not complained at all. If you are price sensitive, try it. Here in SoCal Costco gas is significantly cheaper than most other gas stations.

[johnrando]

+1 on Costco. Top Tier, significantly cheaper. Get a Costco AMEX card and you get 1% cash back on your gas.

[Jon D]

Switched to Chevron after some issues with one of cheaper top tiers above at suggestion of my indy.[it might have just been a bad tank] Car runs better, mileage up about 5-10% depending on my right foot. Reason for Chevron is they also add Techron which BMW recommends.

[stephenkirsh]

We've been discussing Costco as Top Tier gas for awhile now. I have been using it for a few months now since getting my membership and the car has not complained at all. If you are price sensitive, try it. Here in SoCal Costco gas is significantly cheaper than most other gas stations.

I think it'll take time to see any changes in the car. It's small stuff like valve build up.



+1 on Costco. Top Tier, significantly cheaper. Get a Costco AMEX card and you get 1% cash back on your gas.

I get 3% on gas from ANYWHERE with my bofa card and 5% back from any gas for 3 months a year with my chase card.

[SoCalZman]

I think it'll take time to see any changes in the car. It's small stuff like valve build up.



If its top tier gas it meets BMW requirements. period the end in my mind.

Also, they seem to have done their research: http://www.costco.com/kirkland-signature-gasoline.html

"Kirkland Signature™ Gasoline contains five times the EPA detergent requirement in both regular unleaded and premium grades. Kirkland Signature™ Gasoline helps remove any existing deposits and keeps your engine clean."

Im sure our cars will be fine using it. If you have a costco amex you get 3% cash back on top of Costco's amazing gas prices.

[KevinC]

Another tidbit about Costco - they have signs at the pump (at least around here) bragging about how often they change their filters, and that it shows in how fasts the gas flows from the pump. They caution if you're buying elsewhere and the pump is slow - the filters are clogged and you're getting crappy gas. Probably true, sounds logical. I can totally see the average crummy gas station ignoring filters for way longer than they should.

[stephenkirsh]

Ok. Here's my (new) biggest problem with Costco gas now; the 20 car line to wait for it lol. We don't have one in town, anyway. So we only go once a month at most. :(

[wsmeyer]

I exclusively use Chevron Supreme. It's top tier and we get $.20 off per gallon with our grocery store rewards card. That put's it at $2.29 right now and Gas Buddy says Costco is $2.32.

[SoCalZman]

Ok. Here's my (new) biggest problem with Costco gas now; the 20 car line to wait for it lol. We don't have one in town, anyway. So we only go once a month at most. :(

I had the same problem when I started using them. Now I just go in the mornings before work or something. totally empty.

[ELCID86]

I didn't realize Valero was Venezuelan, and given what's been going on with the government, I'd pass on their gas.


Good point! I stopped using 7-11 for their ties with Citgo gas, though I think they have since found a different source.

[johnrando]

I exclusively use Chevron Supreme. It's top tier and we get $.20 off per gallon with our grocery store rewards card. That put's it at $2.29 right now and Gas Buddy says Costco is $2.32.

That's a good price William. But oops, I said 1% cash back on Costco but it's 3%. So that $2.32 is $2.25 (or $2.26 if your round up).

[wsmeyer]

That's a good price William. But oops, I said 1% cash back on Costco but it's 3%. So that $2.32 is $2.25 (or $2.26 if your round up).

Ok but let's assume you didn't have the $.20 discount and the difference was $.24 / gallon. For our 16 gallon tank that would save you $3.84. How far would you be willing to drive to save that?

[BADCLOWN]

personally, i wouldn't go out of my way. doesnt seem cost effective/worth the savings.


i think I've used shell 93oct in most of my vehicles since i started driving, occasionally putting a full tank of a different 93oct

[alexandre]

I've been using Costco for at least a year, not sure if the canadian ones were top-tier prior to this announcement. I drive by at least once a week so it works for me. It's on a major evening commute artery so key for me is to go anytime before 3PM.

[johnrando]

I exclusively use Chevron Supreme. It's top tier and we get $.20 off per gallon with our grocery store rewards card. That put's it at $2.29 right now and Gas Buddy says Costco is $2.32.


Ok but let's assume you didn't have the $.20 discount and the difference was $.24 / gallon. For our 16 gallon tank that would save you $3.84. How far would you be willing to drive to save that?

Good question but Costco is the closest gas station to me over Shell and Exxon/Chevron (except for the very expensive and mega traffic one on the corner of Rosecrans and Sepulveda). BTW, not pushing Costco, it just make sense for me. I'm aways scared by the long line, but they absolutely move fast, 10 rows of pumps (or such), and 4 cars pumping at a time).

[wsmeyer]

Good question but Costco is the closest gas station to me over Shell and Exxon/Chevron (except for the very expensive and mega traffic one on the corner of Rosecrans and Sepulveda).

Higher than these douchebags?

17479

[danewilson77]

personally, i wouldn't go out of my way. doesnt seem cost effective/worth the savings.


i think I've used shell 93oct in most of my vehicles since i started driving, occasionally putting a full tank of a different 93oct

This.

And this.

"As an aside.....we had an interesting gasoline discussion. He (Jim Conforti) said that 91 octane from Sinclair (or any other gas station for that matter) and 91 octane from Shell, with equal RM values, will not be the same gas. Mind blown.

So.....if you couple a tune (that alters the knocks sensors), with a tank of gas.....other than Shell....melting a hole in your piston, could occur. Interesting statement here. For this sole reason, when he was performing dyno's, he instructed customers to only fill up at a Shell, near the dyno shop (Then followed and interesting story about a kid not following these orders, which resulted in Jim chasing his tail for 5 hours on the dyno, and resulted in a full drain and purge of the cars fuel delivery system)"

[derbo]

Here is another thing. Stations are franchised own and its possible that the owner can "cheap" out on routine filter replacements and etc, etc and vary on the quality of the gas. I had bad gas from Shell once and it caused my Prius to backfire and pop off the PCV valve. LOL.

I use Chevron, 76, Shell. But now I may consider costco as an option. :)