Concerns after reading Echo's Blackstone Oil Analysis

[RITmusic2k]

After I moved to Portland my commute got much shorter and my climate got much colder. Since Echo is still my daily driver and she no longer gets much opportunity to get up to full operating temperature anymore, I thought it prudent to give the car a checkup after her most recent oil change. Just got my report today, and it sounds like I've got some things to be worried about. Would any of you guys care to weigh in on their findings and advise how urgently I should consider putting her on the operating table?

http://i.imgur.com/5FrRbJf.jpg

Bear in mind, the engine runs more smoothly than any I've ever owned, and despite the fact that I usually drive very gently, it's consistently powerful and from the seat of my pants it seems like a very healthy engine. Thoughts?

[az3579]

After I moved to Portland my commute got much shorter and my climate got much colder. Since Echo is still my daily driver and she no longer gets much opportunity to get up to full operating temperature anymore, I thought it prudent to give the car a checkup after her most recent oil change. Just got my report today, and it sounds like I've got some things to be worried about. Would any of you guys care to weigh in on their findings and advise how urgently I should consider putting her on the operating table?

http://i.imgur.com/5FrRbJf.jpg

Bear in mind, the engine runs more smoothly than any I've ever owned, and despite the fact that I usually drive very gently, it's consistently powerful and from the seat of my pants it seems like a very healthy engine. Thoughts?

The most wear on an engine happens while it is cold. The short drives are terrible for your engine. This is why it grinds my gears when I hear of folks starting their car up and letting it warm up before driving it.

You really should go for longer drives, even if they're pointless with no destination, IMO. Try to go for a drive every few days for maybe half hour or so. That should help slow the rate of wear, I would think.


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[ELCID86]

^ good advice. How did you catch the sample? From the drain hole or via a pump? (My theory on the latter would be contaminates from the pump reservoir.)

As and comparison, here is Colin's most recent analysis at about the same mileage (my bad for not catching this earlier and changing it but he goes to college about 400 miles away.)

17331

[RITmusic2k]

Thanks for the responses, guys.

Here's the kicker, and it's a variable I hadn't considered til you asked: I didn't collect the sample myself. My local BMW dealer was running an oil change special for less than my cost of parts, so I brought my Blackstone kit along with me and asked them if they could take the sample for me while they worked on the car. Maybe the tech just dipped his hands in a bucket of iron filings before he put the lid on the container!

Of course I'm going to take the cautious approach and reduce my OCIs per their recommendation, and I'll be sure to change the oil myself this next time and follow protocol to the letter.

[brettbimmer]

Did the tech pull the sample from a collection pan after the oil was drained from the car? Given BMWs prescribed insane oil change intervals, I bet most cars running 15K plus oil changes would look like this (or probably far worse). My indy showed me a filter on a car with 15k miles on the oil, and it literally crumbled in his hands. Scary.

Incidentally from what I hear, sticking with one brand of oil is the best route to prevent gasket leaks down the line. Different oil manufacturers have different additives, and if you switch around often it can cause problems later on. My e36 runs cheap conventional oil changed every 3K, but I'm afraid to change to another brand of oil for fear of leaks for the reasons noted.

[danewilson77]

I wouldn't freak out until I pulled my own sample. I'd do it soon.

"No flamesuit required"

[derbo]

Thanks for the responses, guys.

Here's the kicker, and it's a variable I hadn't considered til you asked: I didn't collect the sample myself. My local BMW dealer was running an oil change special for less than my cost of parts, so I brought my Blackstone kit along with me and asked them if they could take the sample for me while they worked on the car. Maybe the tech just dipped his hands in a bucket of iron filings before he put the lid on the container!

Of course I'm going to take the cautious approach and reduce my OCIs per their recommendation, and I'll be sure to change the oil myself this next time and follow protocol to the letter.

If this anything like my dealership, there are oil change drains and it would be impossible to get it as its a giant cylinder.

They used something like this:

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcRNfbnDBY2hvTNBzBJ7bKhVuDQrQR3 8TKd7NuVivN9Mt-eISmDSuMbMGXyNbCkD5kvY1pdKD6-R&usqp=CAY

[stephenkirsh]

Yea no worries until you get your own sample.

[LivesNearCostco]

I recently got an unusually high lead reading in my Blackstone UOA, the 6th one I've done on my ZHP. It was a reading of 59ppm, whereas highest lead reading before was 12ppm. Also my iron was 25ppm whereas highest prior iron was 21ppm. Aluminum and copper were nice and low where they should be. Engine runs smooth and no obvious knocks.

Blackstone suggested I might have just had a particle get in there and streak a bearing, or my rod bearings could be wearing or loose or something. I plan to pull an oil sample at around 3000 to 5000 miles from the dipstick tube and if lead is still high, get the rod bearings replaced. I might replace them anyway when I redo the oil pan gasket (which is what I did on the E36).

[RITmusic2k]

Thanks for the responses, guys! I followed up with them a little bit and between your feedback and theirs I'm a little less panicky about it, but I'll definitely pull a sample again soon and see if the issue is still present.

[danewilson77]

I'd put some miles on the oil you have in there so you can get a representative data point. Honestly, I'd go 7500 miles, draw a sample and call it a day.

"No flamesuit required"

[BADCLOWN]

how often do you perform oil changes again (mileage wise)?

[danewilson77]

how often do you perform oil changes again (mileage wise)?
~7,500 miles.

"No flamesuit required"

[BADCLOWN]

Whew , good lord thats high

[danewilson77]

Whew , good lord thats high
Huh? You're losing me.

:scratchinghead

"No flamesuit required"

[BADCLOWN]

is that what most ZHP owners do for oil change intervals is 7-8k miles? to me thats high. I've always done 3.5-4k MAX.

[Pip]

is that what most ZHP owners do for oil change intervals is 7-8k miles? to me thats high. I've always done 3.5-4k MAX.
For me yes. Always done ~3.5k on non synthetic and 7.5-8k on synthetic.

Edit: non synthetic didn't reference ZHP (old civic)

[stephenkirsh]

We had like a 500 post discussion about this about a month ago lol

[danewilson77]

We all use synthetic and very few (here) change it at less than 7,500 mile intervals. Blackstone Lab samples recommend I go 10,000 miles, but I'm conservative.

"No flamesuit required"

[LivesNearCostco]

I have generally gotten good UOA results with a 7500 mile oil change, except my last one. During the last oil change interval I did 4.5 track days of which 4 were counter-clockwise, which could theoretically lead to oil starvation because sustained high-speed left hand turns can cause the oil to climb up the right side of the oil pan (with engine being tilted towards the right).

Also I crashed the car (hence the 1/2 track day), it sat in the body shop for 2 months. The motor was run a few times with no air filter during that time. Maybe the crash knocked loose some internal grit, or some got in without the filter and scratched up a bearing.

[ryankokesh]

Lol... 4 and a half... :)


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[BADCLOWN]

I couldn't let my car go 7-8k or even 10k without an oil change, even running over engineered stuff like amsoil (syn).

Whew.

Carry on.

[az3579]

I couldn't let my car go 7-8k or even 10k without an oil change, even running over engineered stuff like amsoil (syn).

Whew.

Carry on.

If you're happy with short intervals then do what makes you happy. ;)

[brettbimmer]

I couldn't let my car go 7-8k or even 10k without an oil change, even running over engineered stuff like amsoil (syn).

Whew.

Carry on.
I'm with you - cheap insurance for prolonged engine life. Originally I was going 4k on BMW Castrol syn, but have since gone back to 3K...and I have yet to have any VANOS or CCV troubles. Not worth the little bit of extra savings to me.

[NoVAphotog]

I'm with you - cheap insurance for prolonged engine life...I have yet to have any VANOS or CCV troubles...Not worth the little bit of extra savings to me.

+1

5k for me.

[danewilson77]

I'm with you - cheap insurance for prolonged engine life. Originally I was going 4k on BMW Castrol syn, but have since gone back to 3K...and I have yet to have any VANOS or CCV troubles. Not worth the little bit of extra savings to me.
I think without drawing a Blackstone sample and doing conservatively what they say, you're just throwing your money away. Even at 7500 miles, very likely, your oil is performing like new regarding additives.

"No flamesuit required"

[az3579]

I think without drawing a Blackstone sample and doing conservatively what they say, you're just throwing your money away. Even at 7500 miles, very likely, your oil is performing like new regarding additives.

"No flamesuit required"

Brett doesn't drive his ZHP often enough to warrant waiting till 7500 miles. I don't think he drives it that much per year, even. For him, it would make sense to do it sooner.

[LivesNearCostco]

Yes it's those half track days that will get you!

Actually thinking about why I got high lead and iron (and boron?) readings, besides the crash and running the motor without the filter. After it was fixed, I helped instruct at a car control clinic. During lunchtime I took my car on the skid pad and tried to do some drifting. While I couldn't break the rear tires loose much (255mm Michelin PSS on mostly dry pavement), I turned a bunch of tight circles in both direction. That could have led to oil starvation too.

Also the day before changing the oil and collecting the UOA sample, I changed the filter, loosening the filter housing and letting the old filter drain a lot of old oil back into the filter housing. Maybe that was a dumb move, as oil could have carried trapped contaminants from the filter back into the sump. (Which is the dirty side of the filter, the inside or outside?)


Lol... 4 and a half... :)
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