ZHPMafia.com Subscription Service -- Discuss

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Read the thread in the general forum (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?1472-ZHPMafia.com-Subscription-Service) and then discuss here.

[az3579]

Umm... wow.



That is all.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

You don't appreciate, BP? Discuss here.

[az3579]

Not that I don't appreciate, just a shock, that's all.
I don't know if I appreciate, actually. The first immediate thought I had was "holy crap, this is commercializing", which I don't like the thought of. But then, I started to think that this site isn't free to run, so I understand why it's being done. So, supporting the site isn't what I have an issue with at all.

The issue in my eyes is that having these "titles" such as Gold Subscriber or something like that kind of makes it seem as though that person is more special. I never liked that on other sites and was glad it wasn't being done here, but it seems that is changing. Yes, if I was paying, I'd want something for the money, but the whole point of paying is to support the site, not really to "stand out" from everyone, which is why I'm thinking the titles are a gimmick. If you want something for the money, you get the raised PM limit, be happy with that, IMO.

What I'm saying is that I thought that this site was nice and clean without it, and adding it would kind of deteriorate the atmosphere in my mind, even though it probably won't once this is implemented.

I'll still visit and post though even if you give me a title like "jackass". :biggrin

[kayger12]

You hit the nail on the head, BP-- the site isn't free to run and maintain.

I don't think anyone is supporting the site to stand out, but instead because they appreciate the site and the effort that Marcus puts into it and want to help defray the costs.

I don't think there is anything wrong with acknowledging people who support the site monetarily. It doesn't mean that they are more special-- it simply means that they chose to support the site monetarily.

I think Marcus has made clear in both his words and actions that he appreciates everyone who participates on this site, regardless of whether they have chosen to donate.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Botond, here's the deal. I totally understand -- and appreciate -- your point of view. You're never going to have the title of jackass.

If you took the survey, you will recall that I specifically asked whether people were interested in having something just like this. While the position was not unanimous, your colleagues did indicate (by a majority) that they wanted to also be recognized for their contribution. Titles are the only way that someone can be recognized -- unless I create a thread where I name names and say this person or that person contributed money to the site. Short of not recognizing anyone, there will always exist a differentiation.

I know you don't have a problem with the fund raising, as you said. Your issue is with the entire badge/tag/recognition angle. Because there was a solid minority of people who didn't want any kind of designation next to their names, I realized that some people would not appreciate this endeavor (especially the recognition part).

Fact is, and getting back to the monetary part of running the site, very few people have donated to the site (even though those who have donated have been generous).

Faster servers and more giveaways aren't free. I'm hoping that this strategy will enable me to plow more money into better and faster resources. The money will also be used to help improve the appearance of this site. Survey takers indicated that the site could look better.

I hope you won't leave the site because of this announcement. You're a valued member.

[Mtnman]

Im going to make another worthless post, but at least i prefaced it as such.... I am torn. I donate some to the site (not at the levels indicated, but what I can right now) I dont know if i like having titles of people who have donated more $ than others. That being said, it is good to give some props to the people who financially support the site and help keep it running. (side note- if we really were strapped for cash and going to shut down the site, id give you one of my kidneys to keep it going....what kind of title would that come with! lol)

So, all in all, im torn. rant over.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

David, you'd be given the title of kidney donor. :biggrin

By the way, I discussed this behind the scenes before I moved forward. We realized that the tough part of this situation would be that some people would hate titles and others would enjoy them. We were torn as well, David.

What it came down to is that more survey takers wanted it than those who didn't.

But, yeah, I understand that some people are not going to like this. I understand that some will be torn. And I understand that some will be happy about.

[kayger12]

Kidney Donor/Head Chef

[az3579]

If you took the survey, you will recall that I specifically asked whether people were interested in having something just like this. While the position was not unanimous, your colleagues did indicate (by a majority) that they wanted to also be recognized for their contribution. Titles are the only way that someone can be recognized -- unless I create a thread where I name names and say this person or that person contributed money to the site. Short of not recognizing anyone, there will always exist a differentiation.

I know that. I didn't post in hopes that you would change your mind; I know that it's going to change and there isn't anything I can do about it. It doesn't really matter all that much, just thought I'd let it be known because you asked for opinions on it, so I gave one. I'm just going to sit back and try my best to ignore it, no harm no foul. Once again, I didn't set out to try to stop you from doing it, just voicing a small concern that just doesn't really matter in the real world, that's all.



I hope you won't leave the site because of this announcement. You're a valued member.

Of course not. The only things that would force me to leave this site (in no particular order) are:
1) death
2) lack of time
3) life getting in the way
4) an increase in douche-bagginess of the members

I don't see 1 or 4 getting in the way at any time soon. :)

[Marcus-SanDiego]

BP, and I know you weren't trying to change my mind. And I absolutely wanted to hear your opinion.

I'll tell you what, though. The survey takers have spoken. But if members overwhelmingly -- in this thread -- said that they were not interested in this, and in fact were vehemently opposed to it, I would scrap it.

As you know, I am very sensitive to you guys. That's why I want to hear what people think right here in this thread. Some have spoken through the survey. This thread will be the place to hear the rest of you.

[mimalmo]

PM sent

[static667]

I too understand that operating this site is not free. I'm willing to subscribe to support this community because I see that it's worth it. This small, tight knit group has a much cooler vibe and homely feel that some of the other BMW forums that I frequent. But, I would have to agree with az3579 on the titles issue. I can see adding a small subscriber or something similar to a name but making their title bigger and bolder seems a little over the top. Unless that's what they want. Personally, I wouldn't feel it necessary to advertise that I had a subscription. Would there be any way to allow for the donating member to customize their tag?

[johnrando]

Unfortunately I did not happen to see the survey. If the majority supported it, so be it... you are still providing access to the site for free, so I have no issues with it (other than feeling like a loser if I didn't contribute. :-) )

I don't know how reasonable this request would be, but if we knew what it cost to run the site, perhaps we could figure out a contribution level among those who are willing to contribute to help keep it open... and as more people contribute, the fee would go down. I think it would be reasonable to add a kicker on top of that, call it a "management" fee, to pay for the time and upkeep of the site for those who run it, on top of what it takes to pay for the infrastructure to run it. If none of that makes sense, just ignore it and continue as if nothing happened. :-) Clearly the easier way for you to run it would just be the subscription levels, which was already voted upon. My .02. John

[az3579]

I don't know how reasonable this request would be, but if we knew what it cost to run the site, perhaps we could figure out a contribution level among those who are willing to contribute to help keep it open... and as more people contribute, the fee would go down. I think it would be reasonable to add a kicker on top of that, call it a "management" fee, to pay for the time and upkeep of the site for those who run it, on top of what it takes to pay for the infrastructure to run it. If none of that makes sense, just ignore it and continue as if nothing happened. :-) Clearly the easier way for you to run it would just be the subscription levels, which was already voted upon. My .02. John

Are you proposing a fee to use the website?
I do not think the members would feel it is a good thing to be forced to contribute to use the site. I probably misunderstood you though.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Static, yes. You could absolutely opt out of the subscriber designation. What's more, subscribers could customize their own titles. However, people will realize that you subscribed if they see a customized title -- though they will have no idea how much was contributed.

I'm absolutely open to everything.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Are you proposing a fee to use the website?
I do not think the members would feel it is a good thing to be forced to contribute to use the site. I probably misunderstood you though.

John was not suggesting that the site become a paid site.

His quote: "perhaps we could figure out a contribution level among those who are willing to contribute...." He's just talking about those who are willing to contribute.

This will not be a paid site.

[johnrando]

Are you proposing a fee to use the website?
I do not think the members would feel it is a good thing to be forced to contribute to use the site. I probably misunderstood you though.

No, not proposing a fee. Just saying that one thought would be to match the subscription costs to the cost of running the site, for those who wanted to contribute. So, for example, if we knew the site costs $100/month, but the costs were only covering $75, maybe some people would want to chip in to help. And the converse would be true. John

[danewilson77]

My thoughts are this.....as I am hosting the first East Coast Meet. This has put a huge financial responsibility and time sink on me. I have asked no one for money...as I volunteered to host. I am happy and feel fortunate to be able to host.

The funds that not only help to fund the site....hopefully will also be helpful in hosting kick ass future meets.

A well funded Mafia...imho....will operate and be more successful than an unfunded site.

The people that I know here, that do donate money, don't want the recognition, but it is our responsibility, as the Mafia Team, to garner to that good will.

We want other members on the site, to know, who the donating members, as that may be but a glimpse, of the character of the person (but not the tell all).

I understand there are completely selfish people, who would donate only for that recognition. I do not see them here.

I understand that there are incredibly giving people, who cannot afford to give. That is understandable.

I realize there are people that will never donate $0.01 to this site, but will suck everything out of it they can. I am also ok with this, as the Mafia Team is one of good will toward all BMW enthusiasts, who represent the car well in whatever capacity that is.

This is not meant, in any way, shape or form, to alienate anyone from the site. This is a two fold win for all of us in the Mafia:

1. We help, how we can, to fund the site, stickers, meets, special events, and even give back to the founder who has been gracious with his time and money.
2. We recognize those who donate, rightfully so. That's it. Really.

No one should read into this. That is all it is about. We wouldn't be here, if we didn't enjoy each others company.

My thoughts, humbly submitted, to the Mafia members.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

John, while I would love to say that the site costs $100 a month to run each month, I can't say that. In fact, we're in our fifth month of operations. Monthly expenses have varied wildly each month.

Last month we moved to a new server. The monthly server cost went up on a monthly basis (up 20%). I had to compensate those who helped facilitate the server move. Additionally, I have a business connection here at my house so that I can run the site efficiently. I've got a fast connection here. It helps me respond to posts almost immediately.

What's more, the site is going to get a new look during the next four weeks. I will be paying for banners to go with the new look. These are costs that will be above the normal monthly operating costs.

Perhaps because we're in the early stages of this site, costs are still high. I imagine that, by the end of the year, things will even out.

None of these costs, by the way, factor in my time that I spend nurturing the site on a daily basis. I don't even want to know what my hourly rate is right now. I suspect I'm making about a penny an hour. LOL. I'd do better if I was incarcerated, working in the laundry department.

[az3579]

John was not suggesting that the site become a paid site.

His quote: "perhaps we could figure out a contribution level among those who are willing to contribute...." He's just talking about those who are willing to contribute.

This will not be a paid site.

Sorry, I missed that. I didn't think he was suggesting it be a paid one, which is why I kind of tried to clarify what I thought he meant so I could get some confirmation on what he intended.

[johnrando]

John, while I would love to say that the site costs $100 a month to run each month, I can't say that. In fact, we're in our fifth month of operations. Monthly expenses have varied wildly each month.

Last month we moved to a new server. The monthly server cost went up on a monthly basis (up 20%). I had to compensate those who helped facilitate the server move. Additionally, I have a business connection here at my house so that I can run the site efficiently. I've got a fast connection here. It helps me respond to posts almost immediately.

What's more, the site is going to get a new look during the next four weeks. I will be paying for banners to go with the new look. These are costs that will be above the normal monthly operating costs.

Perhaps because we're in the early stages of this site, costs are still high. I imagine that, by the end of the year, things will even out.

None of these costs, by the way, factors in my time that I spend nurturing the site on a daily basis. I don't even want to know what my hourly rate is right now. I suspect I'm making about a penny an hour. LOL. I'd do better if I was incarcerated, working in the laundry department.

Completely understand, and I didn't really expect that it would work out that cleanly. And yes, I do agree that there would have to be a factor for your time, etc., which I mentioned in my post.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

And Dane is correct. Proceeds from the site will be used to defray the costs associated with the meet that's being held at Dane's house in June.

In hindsight, instead of me actually flying out to Virginia, I should have stayed put and donated the money to the ZHP Mafia meet in Virginia. Hindsight, though, is 20-20.

I also hope that no one thinks I'm being defensive about any posts that don't dovetail with my thinking. I'm not like that. I don't take anything personally. Please continue to discuss the situation right here in this thread.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

And yes, I do agree that there would have to be a factor for your time, etc., which I mentioned in my post.

Yep. I saw that. That's why I wanted to mention it here, too.

I think I said this a long time ago: if anyone ever wants to get rich, don't bother trying to do it by running a forum. It's not the most lucrative business (at least early on). :biggrin

[static667]

I will be paying for banners to go with the new look.

Are you going to be paying someone to design a banner? If so, I'm sure that a few of the mafioso's around here could come up with some pretty cool ones. I have noticed some really nice signatures with a bit of photoshop work. Maybe a banner design contest?

[kayger12]

In hindsight, instead of me actually flying out to Virginia, I should have stayed put and donated the money to the ZHP Mafia meet in Virginia. Hindsight, though, is 20-20.


No way. Boss needed to be there.


Droid X. Tapatalk. Use it.

[Mtnman]

Agree with keith. One well used kidney on the table.....lol

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Are you going to be paying someone to design a banner? If so, I'm sure that a few of the mafioso's around here could come up with some pretty cool ones. I have noticed some really nice signatures with a bit of photoshop work. Maybe a banner design contest?

Thought about that, Static. I rejected my own idea. When you ask someone to do something for free, you have no right to customize stuff and you have no right to demand someone's time. Early on, Tampa was doing our banners. I felt guilty when I was not compensating him for his time. I'd rather pay someone to build out the infrastructure and site enhancements at this point.

[Johnmadd]

No way. Boss needed to be there.


Agreed. You should be in attendance for annual meets if possible. I will consider a contribution to help my new favorite forum. 200$ for platinum?

[danewilson77]

And Dane is correct. Proceeds from the site will be used to defray the costs associated with the meet that's being held at Dane's house in June.

In hindsight, instead of me actually flying out to Virginia, I should have stayed put and donated the money to the ZHP Mafia meet in Virginia. Hindsight, though, is 20-20.

I also hope that no one thinks I'm being defensive about any posts that don't dovetail with my thinking. I'm not like that. I don't take anything personally. Please continue to discuss the situation right here in this thread.

Don't you even think that way. I would have paid for you to fly here. You need to be at this event. I still expect nothing in return, and again. feel blessed to host the event. I only wish to open up my home, to the Mafia Family. That's it.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

By the way, this is how all titles would look. This is a dummy account that I created long ago -- so that I could test stuff out. The fonts would be identical. The only thing that would change is the name, gold, silver, bronze.

Does this work? (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/member.php?21-Zhp-mafia)

[static667]

Maybe just 'subscriber' in the corresponding color? That would be my thought.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

[billschusteriv]

First, I am in agreement with options available for us to support the site.

It has been some time since I took the survey when it first came out, but I believe I misunderstood that section of the questions. The subscription part came across clear - for some reason, when recognition was mentioned, I thought the question on Recognition was referring to the Rankings that are associated with Post count. Either way, I'm okay with it.

I guess I'm waffling on how the recognition will be received. On some forums I've visited (just found a post I wanted to read via google search), and I've seen the gold/silver/bronze medals/ribbons/titles. I don't think it I really took note of it or whether or not it had any kind of impact on the dynamic of the site.

I think based on our group dynamic (as Dane pointed out above), this type of "recognition" will not adversely impact us. At least, I hope not.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Maybe just 'subscriber' in the corresponding color? That would be my thought.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

Static, there are several people in this thread who now have a designated subscriber level. What do you think?

Everyone gets the same user name color. The only thing that's different is the title, which says which color you are.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

First, I am in agreement with options available for us to support the site.

It has been some time since I took the survey when it first came out, but I believe I misunderstood that section of the questions. The subscription part came across clear - for some reason, when recognition was mentioned, I thought the question on Recognition was referring to the Rankings that are associated with Post count. Either way, I'm okay with it.

I guess I'm waffling on how the recognition will be received. On some forums I've visited (just found a post I wanted to read via google search), and I've seen the gold/silver/bronze medals/ribbons/titles. I don't think it I really took note of it or whether or not it had any kind of impact on the dynamic of the site.

I think based on our group dynamic (as Dane pointed out above), this type of "recognition" will not adversely impact us. At least, I hope not.

Bill, I am a member of an audio/video forum. Back in the day, before the site was sold, there were three levels of recognition. They were prominently displayed under our user names. I never thought it was negative. Also, it was a tight-knit group, too. Really quite friendly. What's more, I never thought someone was less generous simply because there was no title next to their name.

In this particular situation, people who would like to subscribe, but not be recognized, have that option. I've already got a few of those on the site now. They just let me know that they have contributed -- but they do not want a title. Works for me.

[static667]

I'll have to check it out when I get home because I can't see title differences from my phone. I was just tossing out a few thoughts that I'm sure you have already covered.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

[Marcus-SanDiego]

No worries, Static. I simply appreciate your willingness to throw ideas out there in the first place.

Take care.

[Jon D]

Like the others I have no issue with those that want to donate to do so etc... however not a big fan of the tags recognizing subscription levels. I was on another site along time ago before boards were popular and most of us donated to get it going etc - however no ads -- what the site owner did was have a separate page with all the donors listed. Did not influence the basic view inside the board. Just and idea:dunno

[danewilson77]

Did not influence the basic view inside the board. Just and idea:dunno

I don't understand this. Does it make people feel bad?

[Jon D]

It can tend to color how folks are perceived i.e part of the in-crowd or not.. Personally I don't really care but one of the nice things about most boards is that outside of post count no one is really identified as any different than any other. I guess at the simple level you could have a donor 'star' but the less made of it the better. Subscriptions could also lead to the perception that it will become a members only environment.. which is not the intent.

[danewilson77]

It can tend to color how folks are perceived i.e part of the in-crowd or not.. Personally I don't really care but one of the nice things about most boards is that outside of post count no one is really identified as any different than any other. I guess at the simple level you could have a donor 'star' but the less made of it the better. Subscriptions could also lead to the perception that it will become a members only environment.. which is not the intent.

Thanks for the comments Jon. Marcus has made it clear this it will never be "members only".

[Marcus-SanDiego]

By the way, as a result of this subscription program, I am removing all ads from the threads.

At this point, all sponsors and advertisers are now centrally located on a single page at the site (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?229-List-of-Affiliate-Advertisers-at-ZHP-Mafia).

[az3579]

I like the way it's implemented now. I saw Dane's post and saw the words under his name but it wasn't hugely obvious that he's a "Gold subscriber", which I think is cool.


By the way, as a result of this subscription program, I am removing all ads from the threads.

At this point, all sponsors and advertisers are now centrally located on a single page at the site (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?229-List-of-Affiliate-Advertisers-at-ZHP-Mafia).

This is actually a very nice change. I noticed that I don't see any ads on this page as I type this...

[Marcus-SanDiego]

I like the way it's implemented now. I saw Dane's post and saw the words under his name but it wasn't hugely obvious that he's a "Gold subscriber", which I think is cool.

This is actually a very nice change. I noticed that I don't see any ads on this page as I type this...

BP, glad to hear it. I didn't want it to be over the top.

[billschusteriv]

I do miss my enforcer "title".

[Marcus-SanDiego]

I do miss my enforcer "title".

It's one of the things I could not code for, bill.

[Mtnman]

No more titles? Damn, and I just changed to messegerrio! I've been on cell for 2 days and can't see this stuff yet.....

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

[billschusteriv]

I do miss my enforcer "title".

It's one of the things I could not code for, bill.

Its really okay Marcus, just a comment - that's all. Just glad to be helping out.

I liked the mafia flavor of the titles...

[Johnmadd]

No more titles? I've been on cell for 2 days and can't see this stuff yet.....

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

Droid global and can't see this? Do you have all phone updates to software? I see it all on my Droid X.

[kayger12]

I can see it in my Dolphin HD browser on the Droid X, but on Tapatalk the titles don't show.

[Johnmadd]

I can see it in my Dolphin HD browser on the Droid X, but on Tapatalk the titles don't show.

You don't need tapatalk with all the new updates, flash and adobe are standard with updates.

[Mtnman]

Yeah, but tapatalk is a little cleaner to look at and post from. I can go full version on the browser, but this is easier to post quickly and catch up.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

[kayger12]

You don't need tapatalk with all the new updates, flash and adobe are standard with updates.

I find Tapatalk much more convenient to use than the mobile browser. I read every post on the site, and I can get through posts about twice as quickly with Tapatalk.

The flash enabled browser is excellent for general web surfing, but for the Mafia I haven't found anything better than Ttalk.

[static667]

Tapatalk is a great tool. I can surf the mafia den while my manager isn't looking.

[danewilson77]

I find Tapatalk much more convenient to use than the mobile browser. I read every post on the site, and I can get through posts about twice as quickly with Tapatalk.

The flash enabled browser is excellent for general web surfing, but for the Mafia I haven't found anything better than Ttalk.

+1

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

[jjcools]

Tapatalk is a great tool. I can surf the mafia den while my manager isn't looking.

Ditto

[Go Horns!]

do you you lose the associate, enforcer, soldier, etc. tag when you become a subscriber? I like those, but I am not seeing them. Why do they have to go?

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Horns, for now I have not figured out a way to have both a custom title and a mafia title run concurrently. I will keep messing around with it.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

And you guys know me. I will figure something out.

[billschusteriv]

Woohoo! You got the coding figured out! Thanks Marcus!

It looks good...

[Marcus-SanDiego]

You are welcome, Bill.

[billschusteriv]

Hope it wasn't too difficult to set it up....

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Nope. Just required some thinking on my part. No problem.

[HaloArchive]

Ill be honest, I didn't read any of the previous posts in this thread so, please excuse me if I say something that has already been mentioned.

Anyways...

I believe that at the top of the forum should be a meter or a gauge of sorts with a monthly goal for donations and a donate link. If people would like recognition, maybe simply a small star next to your name for every $10 donated. Lets say I donate $20, then next to my name would be a Star symbol with a x2 next to it. I think that that would be better than actually altering the members names to stand out because, then it creates an unfriendly hierarchy.

$00.02

H

[danewilson77]

Ill be honest, I didn't read any of the previous posts in this thread so, please excuse me if I say something that has already been mentioned.

Anyways...

I believe that at the top of the forum should be a meter or a gauge of sorts with a monthly goal for donations and a donate link. If people would like recognition, maybe simply a small star next to your name for every $10 donated. Lets say I donate $20, then next to my name would be a Star symbol with a x2 next to it. I think that that would be better than actually altering the members names to stand out because, then it creates an unfriendly hierarchy.

$00.02

H

Thanks for the input Halo