Motor has noticibly different 'moods'

[CarbonZHP]

From day to day driving, in the same weather, the engine has been acting noticeably different. It feels almost as if the car is running on a lower performance map sometimes. The best indication of this is going about 50 mph, 5th gear, and flooring it. If the engine is in a 'good mood' the revs will jump up a little and pull smoothly, speeding up. If the engine is not running at its best, under the same conditions when flooring it the revs will jump up and then fall back down and make a struggling sound, with absolutely no torque, and not speed up at all. Car also seems quieter in this 'mood'. Vanos? Fuel pump?

[Johnmadd]

Possibly the clutch is going? :dunno

[CarbonZHP]

Possibly the clutch is going? :dunno

Auto

[johnrando]

I'd say mine has done that sometimes too, but no idea on yours. Maybe VANOS, but that should be consistent if it's an issue. Maybe somethings gunking up some stuff that could use some cleaning. Just guesses, I'm not much at diagnosing engine problems.

[CarbonZHP]

My only thought is that my fuel pump may be failing, and letting pressure out before I start the engine, maybe resulting in the ECU running a lower map. :dunno

[johnrando]

Hmmm. Could be. Miles? You clean MAF, etc?

[CarbonZHP]

MAF is clean. I have the oiled KN CAI so I do clean the MAF often. Miles are high, 124k.

[johnrando]

Fuel filter?

[CarbonZHP]

Not sure when this was last replaced. Have to check my records. Could have been as recent as 106k. If I stop the engine and restart 30mins later it will usually fix the issue. Cold start issue perhaps? I do park outside on a slanted driveway and leave at 7 every morning.

[Hermes]

Vacuum leaks

[LivesNearCostco]

If fuel filter is original at 124K miles, should definitely replace. Don't know enough about fuel pump failures to say if it could get weak intermittently--usually when they fail, they fail to pump any gas and your car stalls or won't start. Could also be VANOS seals but I think that would throw a code most of the time. My VANOS didn't throw codes at 140K miles but then upgrading the seals only delivered a small performance improvement.

And if I'm going 50mph and want some action when flooring the pedal, I'd drop it down to 3rd or 4th gear, not 5th! :-) But you have auto so different final drive ratio so may not be a good analogy.

BTW, since you are auto, I assume it's not a difference in how and when the auto downshifts, or you would have noticed and said something about the downshift, right?

Edit: Yes could be vacuum leak that is not big enough to throw a code and perhaps is inconsistent, maybe related to temperature? Or your car could just have more personality (i.e. possessed like Christine)

[mbeckel]

Has the DME been updated?

Sent from in the bushes

[Hermes]

Has the DME been updated?

Sent from in the bushes

Auto doesn't generally experience the 'dip' as they have different tuning

I'm still betting on vacuum leaks. Seals are only good for so long, and the time has took its toll on even the newest E46. Get the car smoke tested

[mbeckel]

Auto doesn't generally experience the 'dip' as they have different tuning
Ah. Gotcha. Did not know this. Thanks for clarifying

Sent from in the bushes

[KevinC]

Crappy gas?

[danewilson77]

Winter mix of fuel.

"No flamesuit required"

[CarbonZHP]

Stock tuning. Only Chevron 91, best we have. Summer fuel. And yes if I wanted to actually go somewhere going 50 I would downshift. Staying in 5th at 50 just demonstrates when the problem is there, because it seems to effect torque the most.

[ryankokesh]

I don't believe it's a vacuum issue - you'd have codes out the wazoo if it were bad enough to be that noticeable. Fuel pump, from what I know, tends to on these cars at least either work or not work at all. Winter gas sounds plausible, but you're getting the torque momentarily it sounds like. I would imagine, although I don't know for sure, that the degradation in quality would be more minor and consistent.

I would posit that somehow either fuel or air is being intermittently restricted. Either of these situations really should throw some kind of code though. Have you scanned it to see if there are any that haven't thrown a light yet?

If no codes, I would start looking at physical ways the power could be lost. For example, clogged fuel line or some crazy shit like that. But that brings me back to it needing to throw a code because it's running lean.... Weird. I'll keep thinking.


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[ryankokesh]

I re-read the part about the struggling sound. Does anyone think the problem could lie between the engine and the wheels? Funked up transmission or diff or something? Rope got twisted around the wheel? Lol...jk on that last one.


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[ryankokesh]

Have you ever changed your spark plugs?

General question: How do those ignition coil pack things fail?

This is going to drive me nuts...


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[CarbonZHP]

Plugs are recently changed. Coil packs are good, no misfires and I recently pulled them to check them too.Yes I scan with PA Soft pretty often and I havent seen anything that would indicate my problem. I really dont get what it is, but today especially it seemed to be in a very good 'mood'. Just a much more pleasurable drive. Starting to piss me off. Could be related to my catch can?

[OtterEffect]

I sometimes feel like this happens to me. Although I never know if it's my car or my imagination. I don't know too much, but couldn't a dirty CPS cause power fluctuations amongst other issues?

Edit: just thinking out loud here, but maybe it has something to do with the pedal adaptations?


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[LivesNearCostco]

Catch can could cause it if it allows a vacuum leak. Does it have a reliable one-way check valve or diaphragm to ensure vapors only flow one way? I think the stock CCV has that.

If not that or some other intermittent vacuum leak (like upper or lower intake boot), then I would say flaky camshaft position sensor or flaky VANOS solenoid.

[CarbonZHP]

Yes I have a pcv345. Lines are all solid. No leaks, though my line on the distributor side isnt as strong as Id like it to be, so it collapses a bit under pressure.

[BADCLOWN]

VANOS/CPS/intake boot/vacuum leak would all seem like the top 4 probable issues.

what about some TB issues?

[ryankokesh]

VANOS/CPS/intake boot/vacuum leak would all seem like the top 4 probable issues.

what about some TB issues?

I drove with a bad cps and it threw an error and had different symptoms. Doesn't mean it couldn't have failed in a different way though...

I'm most interested in your throttle body idea, tbh.


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[ryankokesh]

Actually, thinking about it some more, wouldn't the throttle body closing up cause it to run rich? That'd be an error for sure. I'm very perplexed about this whole lack of error thing. :dunno


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[ryankokesh]

Vanos sounds promising:

http://www.beisansystems.com/faq.html


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[BADCLOWN]

cleaning the TB may be something to do regardless.

VANOS sounds like the go to. i plan to do mine (pending it doesnt crap out on me before then, 90k on the car now) next summer as preventative measures. it REALLY bothers me when the car isn't running 100% and preventing unexpected surprises mechanically is always one less thing to worry about.

[ELCID86]

I hear ya BC. I have Vanos and O2 sensors on my short term todo list.


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[TigerTater]

Oddly enough I was going to post something in regards to this...I'm auto trans owner as well. I recently did the Besian VANOS seals and VCG. My power seems to be better but my consumption has decreased significantly IMO. I now barely make it to 200ish miles to half a tank of gas....I thought new seals would improve my mileage. Is winter blend that bad? I know these cars weren't designed to run ethanol albeit only 10% standard mix around here, but I just don't get it! No codes here and all my maintenance is up to date...

[UdubBadger]

I'm telling you guys it's bad gas these days, why you think it's so cheap? I'm getting 16.9 in my M when I usually avg 20

[ryankokesh]

I'm telling you guys it's bad gas these days, why you think it's so cheap? I'm getting 16.9 in my M when I usually avg 20

Bad gas?

http://pics2.ds-static.com/prodimg/154370/300.jpg


Actually my Prius and zhp mileage have been on the low side. I thought it was me, but maybe you're on to something.


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[mbeckel]

Bad gas?

http://pics2.ds-static.com/prodimg/154370/300.jpg


Actually my Prius and zhp mileage have been on the low side. I thought it was me, but maybe you're on to something.


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Oil prices are low. Maybe someone knows something we don't.

Sent from in the bushes

[CarbonZHP]

I average 16mpg

[UdubBadger]

See...

Y'all be thinking I'm crazy before, but now... Not so much

[CarbonZHP]

Well Ive always gotten that. So Im not much of an indication.

[TigerTater]

Well Ive always gotten that. So Im not much of an indication.

16! Like overall avg...I at least average around 22-23...mixed city hwy driving.

I agree Seth must be watering down the gas literally...

[CarbonZHP]

Yep usually around 16-17. 75% city driving.

[danewilson77]

I'm telling you guys it's bad gas these days, why you think it's so cheap? I'm getting 16.9 in my M when I usually avg 20
Agree. My mpg dropped significantly last month.

"No flamesuit required"

[TigerTater]

Agree. My mpg dropped significantly last month.

"No flamesuit required"

Glad to know I'm not alone in this. I was beginning to go crazy thinking of all this maintenance I've done to make my car more efficient and to see no results!

[NoVAphotog]

Still up around 24 average here. Replacing the pulleys/belts definitely was noticeable.

[UdubBadger]

We probably just unearthed a multibillion dollar scandal

[ELCID86]

My mpg is still around 23.5.

[Johal E32]

I drive a 323i, but would like to check in that my mpg dropped by 2 mpg as well. I know I can boot it sometimes, but I have not changes anything about my driving style or commute! So weird, and maint is 100% up to date.

[CarbonZHP]

Government will be here soon to shut this site down

[UdubBadger]

Rofl

[ryankokesh]

Here's my Prius mpg graph...

http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/747e/cyife3ba9apyemf6g.jpg

[danewilson77]

Srsly

"No flamesuit required"

[UdubBadger]

Proof enough for me

[Pip]

Wow that's insane. I'll have to check mine.

[LivesNearCostco]

They can't sabotage the gas in Northern Virginia because too many US Federal employees live/work there!

Now watching out for the unmarked helicopters circling above the local Costco...


Still up around 24 average here. Replacing the pulleys/belts definitely was noticeable.

[NoVAphotog]

They can't sabotage the gas in Northern Virginia because too many US Federal employees live/work there!

Now watching out for the unmarked helicopters circling above the local Costco...

:rofl Pretty much...

[UdubBadger]

Just had a non start... Car tried to turn over but couldn't. Gas light is on and under 10 miles to empty. Turned over on 2nd try but that's NEVER happened before and it's not even under 30 deg here today...

[BADCLOWN]

I've noticed as well that my MPG isn't up to snuff. averaging 22mpg mixed city and highway (more city though). thats on Shell 93oct.


i used to get 25 city/32-33 highway in my old ZHP.

[johnrando]

Any good "additives" to help counteract winter mixtures?

[UdubBadger]

fireball?
:dunno

[ryankokesh]

fireball?
:dunno

Let's not talk about fireball... :shifty


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[UdubBadger]

Threw in some octane booster on this tank, will report back

[UdubBadger]

Let's not talk about fireball... :shifty


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Just wait till Timmayfest...

[CarbonZHP]

Thoughts on using seafoam?

[danewilson77]

Thoughts on using seafoam?
Good stuff. 1/2 can in intake [through brake booster), 1/2 can in fuel. Rev to 5500 rpm......let the carbon fly.

It's got wings...

"No flamesuit required"

[CarbonZHP]

Yeah I've been reading your stuff on it. Put all that in with the engine off?

[Johal E32]

No when you use the vacuum line the engine needs to be on.

[CarbonZHP]

Already done. Most smoke I've seen out of a car in my life

[UdubBadger]

Rofl

[OtterEffect]

Already done. Most smoke I've seen out of a car in my life

Can you feel a difference?


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[CarbonZHP]

Engine seems a bit more precise. The only driving I've done since is about 5 miles. I need to get some actual miles on it, as well as get more of the seafoam in the fuel through the system

[BADCLOWN]

Carbon: how many miles are on your vert?


I've heard mixed reviews on seafoam, I've heard its great and I've also heard its WAY violent on the motor. if I'm not mistaken don't you have to do this before an oil change and put X amount of miles on it before the oil is changed?

[CarbonZHP]

124k on mine. Well maintained. It seemed pretty violent. If you have instagram, go on my page to see the amount of smoke that came out. I was pretty afraid to do it as well. Also, I had an oil change and level sensor replacement planned for next week anyway

[UdubBadger]

What's your username? Make sure you #zhpmafia

[CarbonZHP]

Same as on here

[UdubBadger]

Found it

[UdubBadger]

Just drove into work today. 20.8 avg mpg after using octane booster on 93 gas.

[CarbonZHP]

Pretty sure this is not placebo, but the engine seems more responsive. All gear changes are faster. I used to have a hesitation into 3rd, where it would mis-rev and then slam into 3rd. All gears seem a bit faster with the 3rd problem being completely eradicated.

[UdubBadger]

Nice!

[johnrando]

Good news.

[ryankokesh]

Just drove into work today. 20.8 avg mpg after using octane booster on 93 gas.

Well, looks like the s54 must respond better to octane booster when it comes to gas milage. I lost about 2.5mpg after adding it (I wouldn't call it a statistically significant difference...) between two consecutive commutes that I made as similar as possible.

BUT... and it would be great if someone could try and repeat these results ... after adding the octane booster I seem to have lost my 4k dip. Has anyone experienced that before? It was just super smooth all through the range. :dunno

[UdubBadger]

Lies

[ryankokesh]

Lies

100% serious. Maybe the ecu is in the process of remapping itself or something due to the changed octane?

[UdubBadger]

Mpgs wouldn't be that far off though

[BimmerWill]

I've always been in the camp that the little can of octane booster is a gimmick. When you think about the small amount of ounces to gallons ratio there just aren't enough parts to quantify a noticeable difference especially with a Butt dyno. Then again some oriole swear by them. I don't know that they do any harm but I just don't see the justification in them personally.

Too low a concentration in the end IMO.
Luckily we're all entitled to our own :)

Seafoam method I have heard good things about but never tried.

Could be the winter mix they're using now or that along with a combination of bad fuel I would feel may give those kinds of symptoms. I've been without my car for nearly two months now so I can't say how my mpgs are doing. Luckily it's still got summer mix in it though and a full tank at that ;)

[ryankokesh]

Lies

Results:

http://youtu.be/z1PBICqG5Pk


Don't mind my masterful shifting...

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[UdubBadger]

Wow that is really weird looking after 2 yrs of an M

[ryankokesh]

Wow that is really weird looking after 2 yrs of an M

Wow, two years went by quickly

[UdubBadger]

Technically only 1.8 but Ya know. That's more like 5 normal years in "Seth car years" with the way I change.

[ryankokesh]

Technically only 1.8 but Ya know. That's more like 5 normal years in "Seth car years" with the way I change.

Well if you go by maintenance costs... solid 35 years?

[UdubBadger]

Nah, 10-15. It's not blown into a full out mortgage... Yet

[CarbonZHP]

It still feels like a timing problem to me. No check engine codes. Should I check out the cam position sensors?

[ryankokesh]

I just can't get past the no codes... Any updates on this?


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[CarbonZHP]

Still no codes. Still very annoying. I've researched online and everyone has a different solution. From clutch, to o2 sensors, to cam sensors.

[OtterEffect]

I have this similar problem as well. My local indy can't figure it out. No vacuum leaks, and the car check up perfectly on his scanners. Vanos, spark plugs, clean Maf, cps, has all been done. The only thing still suspect on my car are the ignition coils.

[ryankokesh]

I have this similar problem as well. My local indy can't figure it out. No vacuum leaks, and the car check up perfectly on his scanners. Vanos, spark plugs, clean Maf, cps, has all been done. The only thing still suspect on my car are the ignition coils.

I saw fcp had coils for a good price... I was considering replacing them for the heck of it.


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[BADCLOWN]

autohausAZ had good prices on coils when i replaced them at 100k along with doing my serviceII on my old ZHP

[ELCID86]

autohausAZ had good prices on coils when i replaced them at 100k along with doing my serviceII on my old ZHP

I think they are about $75/ea.


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[BADCLOWN]

i just checked and they are 25/piece

[ELCID86]

i just checked and they are 25/piece

Right you are! I don't know what I'd been lookin at. P/n 12131712219

[ryankokesh]

Yeah, fcp has Bosch for $25.99 each with a lifetime warranty. Thinking I might just do it...


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[CarbonZHP]

I thought coils either worked or not. Is there a benefit to replace if no codes are being thrown. I always thought if there was a coil problem it would throw a code immediately

[ELCID86]

I thought coils either worked or not. Is there a benefit to replace if no does are being thrown. I always thought if there was a coil problem it would throw a code immediately

Hmm. Not sure but I just ordered half a dozen. I figured the old red lady might appreciate it after 185k+ miles.


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