Oil Intervals Longer Than One Year-- Thoughts??

[kayger12]

I just got my Blackstone report back from my latest oil change. I changed the oil out after only 4k miles because it had been in the motor for one year.

The oil was in phenomenal shape (which is great news) but I got an interesting recommendation in the Blackstone Report (http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff401/Kayger12/05ZHP-102614_zps37e9d6b5.jpg). They recommend I leave the oil in for 10k miles, even if it is in for longer than a year.

Not sure how I feel about this. Thoughts and opinions??

[Hermes]

Chemicals break down over time, I change oil at a minimum of once a year just for peace of mind. It's not as important as back when we used dino oil but still important to change on a regular basis

[kayger12]

Chemicals break down over time, I change oil at a minimum of once a year just for peace of mind. It's not as important as back when we used dino oil but still important to change on a regular basis

Kind of how I felt. Cheap insurance in my mind...

[Hermes]

Kind of how I felt. Cheap insurance in my mind...

Exactly. I like the peace of mind I get from having fresh fluids even if my old ones are technically still good

[danewilson77]

Chemicals break down over time, I change oil at a minimum of once a year just for peace of mind. It's not as important as back when we used dino oil but still important to change on a regular basis
But the Blackstone folks say otherwise?

"No flamesuit required"

[kayger12]

But the Blackstone folks say otherwise?

"No flamesuit required"

They definitely do:
"Oil doesn't go bad with age in modern engines, so leaving the oil in use for 1
year shouldn't make any noticeable difference. That seems to be the case for your BMW, because wear
looks great in this latest sample."

[danewilson77]

Right. So why not bump it up to 18 months and send in another sample?

"No flamesuit required"

[Hermes]

I don't agree, oil still goes bad. It might take longer but it's not good indefinitely. I still change my oil every 5k even if it may be good for longer

[WOLFN8TR]

1 year or 7500 miles which ever comes first.

[danewilson77]

I don't agree, oil still goes bad. It might take longer but it's not good indefinitely. I still change my oil every 5k even if it may be good for longer
What studies and empirical evidence do you personally have regarding this?

I was not implying he not change it indefinetely (I recommended 18 months).

I know I'm pushing the envelope here, but I'm just curious why we always think we know better than the experts.

Do you perhaps have a link to research that says oil is chemically bad after "x months"?

I'd be curious to see a 15 month oil sample followed by an 18 month oil sample.

"No flamesuit required"

[Hermes]

My basis is personal experience.

I get better fuel economy on my cars and on occasion have even seen my friends cars pass smog merely by changing the oil. It makes a difference even if you are using modern fully synthetic oil to keep your system fresh, although not as urgent as it used to be

[danewilson77]

My basis is personal experience.

I get better fuel economy on my cars and on occasion have even seen my friends cars pass smog merely by changing the oil. It makes a difference even if you are using modern fully synthetic oil to keep your system fresh, although not as urgent as it used to be
What is the longest you've kept synthetic oil in one of your BMW'S (time/mileage)?

I guess, what ages/mileages are you comparing the better fuel economy to?

"No flamesuit required"

[Hermes]

The longest I ever kept oil was appx 1yr/10k. The shortest was 3k. I now do my changes at 5k on the E46/E38, and 3-5k on the older cars. The older cars use semi synthetic so it's not exactly the same but still gives me mpg changes when I change the oil.

I drive pretty much the same route every week and the same speed/style of driving. My mpg will go up about 1/2-1 mpg when I change my oil in the E46, less in the E38. The E21 sometimes has jumped 4 mpg when I change the oil even at just 5k intervals.

As for my buddy with smog, he tried everything he could think of and was just outside of passing. I went over and we realized he hadn't changed the oil in about 3k (still a reasonably short amount for an E34) but it had been a while since he didn't drive the car much, and just doing that he managed to pass.

Basically I agree that you don't have to change oil at the frequencies that the lube places say, but there is still an advantage to keeping fresh fluids in your car.

[BCS_ZHP]

Dane, when we had pleasure boats, the marina mechanic recommended an oil change every year no matter how many hours of use you didn't accumulate. The mechanic explained to me that despite non-use and break down of the oil, with every seasonal temperature cycling some moisture from the air is dropped into your engine in the form of condensation from those temperature changes. He said it's not much, but it is some minuscule amount of water droplets getting into your engine. If you run your engine regularly, those condensation water droplets get consumed, vaporized by the heat cycling If you don't use the engine regularly, the water droplets can concentrate on bare metal surfaces like rod bearings, crankshaft journals, camshaft lobes, and they may form rust. He admitted it was very minor but change the oil yearly and you'll know any water droplets are not in your engine. Bruce

[danewilson77]

......They recommend I leave the oil in for 10k miles, even if it is in for longer than a year.




Dane, when we had pleasure boats, the marina mechanic recommended an oil change every year no matter how many hours of use you didn't accumulate. The mechanic explained to me that despite non-use and break down of the oil, with every seasonal temperature cycling some moisture from the air is dropped into your engine in the form of condensation from those temperature changes. He said it's not much, but it is some minuscule amount of water droplets getting into your engine. If you run your engine regularly, those condensation water droplets get consumed, vaporized by the heat cycling If you don't use the engine regularly, the water droplets can concentrate on bare metal surfaces like rod bearings, crankshaft journals, camshaft lobes, and they may form rust. He admitted it was very minor but change the oil yearly and you'll know any water droplets are not in your engine. Bruce

Thank you JP and Bruce for sharing your personal experiences. It helps a lot as I may reach KGOCS soon.

I'm also wondering how legit these guys are if they are making a solid recommendation to leave it in greater than a year. I don't understand why they just don't play it safe and recommend 1 year or less? I would think they would know about...

1. The possibility of lost fuel economy.

2. The possible adverse effects when marginally failing smog.

3. The formation and falling away of small condensate droplets in various lubricated portions of the engine....how ever miniscule they might be.

"No flamesuit required"

[kayger12]

Dane, when we had pleasure boats, the marina mechanic recommended an oil change every year no matter how many hours of use you didn't accumulate. The mechanic explained to me that despite non-use and break down of the oil, with every seasonal temperature cycling some moisture from the air is dropped into your engine in the form of condensation from those temperature changes. He said it's not much, but it is some minuscule amount of water droplets getting into your engine. If you run your engine regularly, those condensation water droplets get consumed, vaporized by the heat cycling If you don't use the engine regularly, the water droplets can concentrate on bare metal surfaces like rod bearings, crankshaft journals, camshaft lobes, and they may form rust. He admitted it was very minor but change the oil yearly and you'll know any water droplets are not in your engine. Bruce

Good info, but this oil was in for a year through both summer and winter and the analysis showed zero water in the oil.

It seems that a lot of the conventional wisdom isn't necessarily based on data or empirical evidence.

It's an interesting discussion.



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[wsmeyer]

I would do what Blackstone recommends. If you're not comfortable with 10k go with 7k, send a sample of that to Blackstone and see how that goes.

Oil does break down over time and it's ability to lubricate and absorb contaminants diminishes, but this can be quantitatively measured. That's what Blackstone does. You tell them what oil you put in and how many miles you drove and they compare the state of your oil to that of new oil. That's the whole point of their analysis.

When I first started driving in the 80's you would hear 2k miles as the recommended interval, not even Jiffy Lube would recommend that frequency now lol. The advancements in metal coatings and more precise manufacturing have reduced the amount of metal particles introduced into the iol via friction have decreased to the point where the lubrication properties of motor oil are lost to breakdown faster than contamination. And the synthetic additives in the oils we use have greatly decreased the rate of breakdown.

Just my .02 cents as they say.

[danewilson77]

I would do what Blackstone recommends. If you're not comfortable with 10k go with 7k, send a sample of that to Blackstone and see how that goes.

Just my .02 cents as they say.

But they said to run it for greater than a year? Really?

"No flamesuit required"

[az3579]

I'd go with the experts. They see the things that actually *do* happen.

Just because this kind of stuff "can" happen doesn't mean it will. For all we know, the likelihood of it happening is the same likelihood of winning the jackpot on the lottery three times in a row.

[Avetiso]

Oil withstands thousands of heat cycles and constant abrasion over the course of its life. It may break down over time, but I think most people don't realize just how slowly this happens (plastic, anyone?).

Assuming there is no immediate cause, oil will not degrade in and of itself fast enough to require a yearly change. You could leave it in your engine for two or three years, if not more, ASSUMING:

The engine is completely sealed and there is nothing else that could potentially degrade the quality outside of regular causes (and of course you haven't driven on it enough to warrant a change).

Sure, you could play it safe and change it every year regardless, and considering the cost, might as well. However, that doesn't make it right, nor does it make anything better.

Keith said it right. It's conventional wisdom at best. You can make the argument that it helps you sleep at night, but you can't make the argument that leaving it in there longer hurts it, because you can't prove that.

[fredo]

I checked the records for my 323i e46, which I already sold. I bought it with 124,500 miles and waited 10,400 miles (2.5 years) to change the oil for the first time. Yes: 2.5 years !!!

I asked my nephew to take the car for this service and he reported back one thing: the oil filter was crumbling. After that incident, I always change the oil around 7,500 miles or one year of use.

[danewilson77]

Ha! Great to consider as well fredo. Thanks for the data.

"No flamesuit required"

[derbo]

I wonder how my oil analysis will look like with 10k mileage (mainly track miles). I did an oil change 6/6/14. it's only be 2000 miles since then. 2 Track days.

[az3579]

I checked the records for my 323i e46, which I already sold. I bought it with 124,500 miles and waited 10,400 miles (2.5 years) to change the oil for the first time. Yes: 2.5 years !!!

I asked my nephew to take the car for this service and he reported back one thing: the oil filter was crumbling. After that incident, I always change the oil around 7,500 miles or one year of use.

It makes sense that the oil filter degraded. It's made of paper, isn't it? I'm sure long term exposure to oil isn't a good thing.


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[johnrando]

Didn't read everything posted but I wouldn't go that long. How often have you been doing it before? As some said, maybe lengthen the time a little and see what the report says. But, I just don't see you going that long regardless. How about a nice even 1/year or 10K?

PS I love Jet Black. Way more than Black Sapphire. (That was for William).

[danewilson77]

Lol.....things changed Rando. KG is going to the 2 year plan. Read the thread.

"No flamesuit required"

[BCS_ZHP]

IDK, think it's much debate about nothing. So our oil is about $6/qt, 6.5 qts is $39. Our filter is about $12-13. For under $55, about the price of a full tank of premium fuel, wouldn't you rather be more conservative & cautious than push it?

And because of that, the oil is & has been changed in every BMW that visits our stable on a 5K mile cycle. Overkill, absolutely, but I never have to worry about it.

[danewilson77]

IDK, think it's much debate about nothing. So our oil is about $6/qt, 6.5 qts is $39. Our filter is about $12-13. For under $55, about the price of a full tank of premium fuel, wouldn't you rather be more conservative & cautious than push it?

And because of that, the oil is & has been changed in every BMW that visits our stable on a 5K mile cycle. Overkill, absolutely, but I never have to worry about it.
Could just buy a new BMW every year. Never have to worry about it :)

"No flamesuit required"

[BCS_ZHP]

Or maybe even get a new one every time the fuel tank gets low? Nah, would never get to wrench then.

Showing a e92 M3 owner how to change his oil tomorrow. 2008 car with under 50K miles, the oil has been changed every year for his own peace of mind, the dealer covered it under warranty, but now he's outside the warranty period.

[alexandre]

IDK, think it's much debate about nothing. So our oil is about $6/qt, 6.5 qts is $39. Our filter is about $12-13. For under $55, about the price of a full tank of premium fuel, wouldn't you rather be more conservative & cautious than push it?

And because of that, the oil is & has been changed in every BMW that visits our stable on a 5K mile cycle. Overkill, absolutely, but I never have to worry about it.

If you go 0W40 ($23/5qt) and Mann filter ($5) you're talking $37 for an oil change. Hardly worth skimping on. I personally do 7000 miles, which is about every 9 months for me. Usually coincides with the start of the winter or the end of it.

[ELCID86]

I think Fred is onto something. Those paper filters do seem to be the weak link.


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[kayger12]

I think Fred is onto something. Those paper filters do seem to be the weak link.


Thumbs, iPhone, Tapatalk.

Definitely. Mine was starting to ripple and warp. I didn't like the look of it.

Certainly had to do with the time of exposure as I've had the same brand filter with nearly twice the mileage on it not look that bad.

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[danewilson77]

I like the, "No longer than a year because of degradation of the oil filter" comment.

:waldo

"No flamesuit required"

[kayger12]

I like the, "No longer than a year because of degradation of the oil filter" comment.

:waldo

"No flamesuit required"

Yeah, absent the filter issue I'd push to 18 months and see what the analysis showed and inch up from there.

I'll give this batch maybe 14 months and see what the filter looks like. There's so much TBN left in my oil at a year that it's like changing the oil after driving the car normally for two months.

[danewilson77]

I concur.

"No flamesuit required"

[TigerTater]

If you go 0W40 ($23/5qt) and Mann filter ($5) you're talking $37 for an oil change. Hardly worth skimping on. I personally do 7000 miles, which is about every 9 months for me. Usually coincides with the start of the winter or the end of it.

Where do you find 5qt containers for $23?? Lowest I find is $27 at wallyworld....interesting thread guys...! I'll never have to worry about making a year before 7k miles ...I drive too much!

[derbo]

Where do you find 5qt containers for $23?? Lowest I find is $27 at wallyworld....interesting thread guys...! I'll never have to worry about making a year before 7k miles ...I drive too much!

Walmart has Mobil1 0w40 euro formula for 22.97 before tax. :)

[iZHP]

Haven't even done my first oil change since I bought the car. 1 year (at the end of this month) and only 5,500 miles later. Guess I should get on it before my filter deteriorates!

[kayger12]

Haven't even done my first oil change since I bought the car. 1 year (at the end of this month) and only 5,500 miles later. Guess I should get on it before my filter deteriorates!

I'm looking for 14 months next time around. My filter was starting to warp but it wasn't compromised in any way. Let you know what it looks like Christmas of '15 :)

[derbo]

Haven't even done my first oil change since I bought the car. 1 year (at the end of this month) and only 5,500 miles later. Guess I should get on it before my filter deteriorates!

You could always swap the filter and top off the oil. LOL

[ELCID86]

You could always swap the filter and top off the oil. LOL

That is a helpful design feature on these engines.


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[fredo]

Too bad I didn't see the condition of my oil filter after 2.5 years of use. My nephew did see it. I asked him yesterday and he forgot already.

[Simmsled]

You could always swap the filter and top off the oil. LOL

This sounds like a win.

[WOLFN8TR]

Reading this thread got me thinking of the last time I changed the oil in my truck. I usually only drive it on weekends. The last oil change was at 47,000 miles in 2011 and I now have 53,500 on it. I'm running AMSOIL full synthetic which is recommended to 10-15K intervals. I didn't realize it was 3 years ago so I might change it soon. [emoji15]

[derbo]

Reading this thread got me thinking of the last time I changed the oil in my truck. I usually only drive it on weekends. The last oil change was at 47,000 miles in 2011 and I now have 53,500 on it. I'm running AMSOIL full synthetic which is recommended to 10-15K intervals. I didn't realize it was 3 years ago so I might change it soon. [emoji15]

I like how you say "might" instead of saying you will. :)

[danewilson77]

Reading this thread got me thinking of the last time I changed the oil in my truck. I usually only drive it on weekends. The last oil change was at 47,000 miles in 2011 and I now have 53,500 on it. I'm running AMSOIL full synthetic which is recommended to 10-15K intervals. I didn't realize it was 3 years ago so I might change it soon. [emoji15]
:wub

"No flamesuit required"

[WOLFN8TR]

I say Might beings the cost is approx $125 total every time I change the oil.

[stephenkirsh]

You could always swap the filter and top off the oil. LOL

So uh, based on the rest of the thread, I'm not seeing any holes in this argument lol.

[danewilson77]

So uh, based on the rest of the thread, I'm not seeing any holes in this argument lol.
+1

"No flamesuit required"

[kayger12]

So uh, based on the rest of the thread, I'm not seeing any holes in this argument lol.

Plausible option, imo

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[BCS_ZHP]

Alright, I'm gonna drop the turd in the punch bowl on this debate. This whole thread debates a process, that DIY, is less than $50-60. Why are we debating iton our "non-special" cars that we obsess over well a little bit more than the normal person? We all like to think our cars are worth $12K, 15K, or more depending on mileage and condition. Yet we're debating on whether to scrimp a couple months to save the $50-60? Take your family to dinner, take your date for dinner and a couple drinks, you'll blow more than $50-60. If your ZHP is your love, chariot, 4-wheel partner, just give her some new fluids every year at a minimum.

Not a sermon, not backed up by any scientific analysis, just my opinion.

[danewilson77]

It's not always about money.

"No flamesuit required"

[BCS_ZHP]

So what is it about then? How far I can stretch the laws of physics on paper oil filter elements and condensation in the oil? I don't get it, but self-confession I'm a 5K or 1 year (whichever occurs first) synthetic oil change guy on all our vehicles.

[stephenkirsh]

I think you're completely missing the point. At one point we thought the world was flat. At one point we all changed oil no more than every 3k. The debate is about the standards of modern oil/engines and what methods are valid. I'm not sure the debate was ever about trying to save $50 every 12 months.

[BCS_ZHP]

The world's not flat???

You own a BMW, $50 is one fill up.

Play like a sport, pay like a sport!!!!

[Avetiso]

The world's not flat???

You own a BMW, $50 is one fill up.

Play like a sport, pay like a sport!!!!

So you are saying we should spend an extra $50 just to feel better?

Completely doesn't resonate with me.

[BCS_ZHP]

Dario,
Do whatever you want. My axe to grind in this debate is we all spent $xxxx thousands on a ZHP. Then there's no debate we should put the proper fluids in our vehicles at the proper intervals. However, we have a thread on who/why to stretch the interval. It might be okay for some knowledgeable enthusiasts but is absolutely not good for the masses. Do I need to remind you of some of the silly questions that have been received on the forum latesty?

[kayger12]

Dario,
Do whatever you want. My axe to grind in this debate is we all spent $xxxx thousands on a ZHP. Then there's no debate we should put the proper fluids in our vehicles at the proper intervals. However, we have a thread on who/why to stretch the interval. It might be okay for some knowledgeable enthusiasts but is absolutely not good for the masses. Do I need to remind you of some of the silly questions that have been received on the forum latesty?

Bruce, I'm not quite sure why you're so irked by this whole thing, but since you'd like to continually pound the issue I'll respond.

"My axe to grind in this debate... " Problem #1. This is a no-ax-grinding zone. If you find yourself having to type that it's a good sign that where you're about to head is most likely argumentative and doesn't belong on this site.

"Then there's no debate we should put the proper fluids in our vehicles at the proper intervals. However, we have a thread on who/why to stretch the interval."

The whole point of the thread (which I think I can speak about with some accuracy since I started it) is to discuss and determine what that proper interval is. Just because you decided 1 year or 5k miles doesn't make it so.

I make a lot of money, Bruce. I spend a lot of money, Bruce.

Spending $50 I don't need to spend based on a myth is something I find unnecessary. Period.

Replacing oil that is perfectly serviceable with significant life remaining is not prudent and doesn't prove you love your car more. But if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, have at it.

You've made your point abundantly clear. Please refrain from pounding this thread as clearly everyone else shares a different opinion and would like to continue the discussion.



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[BCS_ZHP]

Keith,
Not irked on the topic, just offered another point of view. I'll bow out of further discussion.

[az3579]

So glad I drive over 40k a year at this point.
This is the LAST thing on my mind. lol

[kayger12]

That's 10 years of mileage for me, BP :)

Definitely not a problem for you, lol

[stephenkirsh]

So glad I drive over 40k a year at this point.
This is the LAST thing on my mind. lol

DAMN!

[az3579]

That's 10 years of mileage for me, BP :)

Definitely not a problem for you, lol

:(


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