"Catastrophic" Drivetrain Failure

[billschusteriv]

This issue has been fixed/resolved. (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?1436-quot-Catastrophic-quot-Drivetrain-Failure&p=29969#post29969)



Okay here's the stats:

02 Xi touring
172,409 miles
Replaced F/R diff fluid in the last 5k miles
Unknown maintenance history on transmission

So driving to work today, the car came to a screeching halt - on its own. I went from driving 25 miles an hour to stopped with a little cloud of dust forming behind the rear wheels. Luckily I wasn't driving at highway speeds yet.

The car seemed to lurch to a stop, almost as if I was standing on the brake (I felt sorry for the ppl behind me). So I pulled over to the curb and "parked". As I neared a stop, the car seemed to shake violently and make lots of noise. Put it reverse to "parallel park" and the same thing happens.

No warning lights on the dash. I popped the hood and checked underneath, all the belts were on the pulleys. I don't today and haven't recently seen any fluids under the car. No drive or half shafts laying on the ground. The wheels and brakes weren't hot.

I'm stumped - and as this was over my head I called my indy mechanic. He said he doesn't have any WAGs and it sounds like it could be catastrophic drivetrain failure - diff, trans, shafts, etc.



This issue has been fixed/resolved. (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?1436-quot-Catastrophic-quot-Drivetrain-Failure&p=29969#post29969)

[danewilson77]

What were the fluids/methods used when performing the maintenance? This really sux Bill. Glad no wreck ensued.

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[kayger12]

Sorry to hear, Bill.

Let us know how you make out. Fingers crossed for you.

[pyreguy]

Wow sorry to hear! Keep us posted.


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[Marcus-SanDiego]

Bill, we're hoping for the best. I know you'll keep us updated as you learn stuff.

Good luck!

[mimalmo]

Bummer.

Transfer case, diff, guibo...?

Does the engine seem fine when it's in Park or Neutral?

[danewilson77]

Bummer.

Transfer case, diff, guibo...?

Does the engine seem fine when it's in Park or Neutral?

Diff bearing?

[billschusteriv]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the kind words.

No issues with the engine in park or neutral. No noticable issues when the car was pulled up onto the flatbed in neutral.

Got the car to my indy mechanic. Tow truck rolled it right into the garage. I stuck around for a few minutes and we moved the car front to back in gear. At about 2 mph there was a noticable shake coming from the drivetrain - under my seat, shifter, steering wheel. Almost like the car was bucking.



Bummer.



Transfer case, diff, guibo...?



Does the engine seem fine when it's in Park or Neutral?



Diff bearing?

At first the symptoms seemed like trans. Now this ^ is more like what we're thinking now. First order of troubleshooting is to disconnect the front/rear and check the diff/transfer case.

All great thoughts gentlemen. I'll keep everyone posted.

[mimalmo]

Good to hear. The parts I listed are all cheaper than an engine replacement.


Though it would have been fun to see you swap in the engine from that crashed ZHP or an M3. :)

[jjcools]

Good luck Bill, car problems are the worst. I had our Audi die in Tahoe this weekend during a crazy storm. I hope it works out ok for you!!

[billschusteriv]

Good to hear. The parts I listed are all cheaper than an engine replacement.


Though it would have been fun to see you swap in the engine from that crashed ZHP or an M3. :)

Hehe. I already swapped in a used engine. I wanted to do a 330 swap, but my mechanic was hesitant as there were a number of parts that needed to be upgraded to make it work.


Good luck Bill, car problems are the worst. I had our Audi die in Tahoe this weekend during a crazy storm. I hope it works out ok for you!!

Thanks JJ - Sorry to hear about your Audi.


The verdict is in - the front differential is locked up. I have located a used one - it should be to the shop by Thursday.

[jjcools]

Good news. Love the tourings, my buddy has one with about the same miles as yours too.

[danewilson77]

Yup....so he is positive tranny and rear diff did not sustain damage?

[kayger12]

Glad it's working out for you, Bill.

Droid X. Tapatalk. Use it.

[az3579]

The verdict is in - the front differential is locked up. I have located a used one - it should be to the shop by Thursday.

That's the tough thing with the AWD system; it's more complicated and thus has more things to wrong. :(

Hope you don't end up spending a fortune...



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[Whitexi]

This thread saddens me....

Its good that its getting a speedy repair. Was it leaking or anything because this seems rare.

[billschusteriv]

Yup....so he is positive tranny and rear diff did not sustain damage?

That was my first thought too. He checked the driveshaft, other axles, transfer case, and rear differential. All seemed to spin/move freely by hand. The front diff didn't move by hand - took leverage and some oomph to move. Also, the fluid was full inside the front diff.

I guess we can't really be positive there isn't collateral damage, but there seem to be good signs pointing to everything else being okay. I also didn't try "driving" more than the 5 yards to the side of the road. I feel it could've been worse if I would've limped the half block to the gas station.

[billschusteriv]

Thanks for the positive thoughts guys!



The verdict is in - the front differential is locked up. I have located a used one - it should be to the shop by Thursday.

That's the tough thing with the AWD system; it's more complicated and thus has more things to wrong. :(

Hope you don't end up spending a fortune...



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The used front diff will run me $450 delivered. So I won't be set back too much.

Hopefully there aren't too many challenges removing the front subframe to get to the diff.

[billschusteriv]

This thread saddens me....

Its good that its getting a speedy repair. Was it leaking or anything because this seems rare.

I was thinking of you when I wrote this - hoping you didn't have anything similar happen.

No visible leaks from diff, and levels were still good. Differentials were just changed with Mobile 1 about 8k ago.

[mikeyb74]

Good to hear. The parts I listed are all cheaper than an engine replacement.


Though it would have been fun to see you swap in the engine from that crashed ZHP or an M3. :)

My Touring is going to be getting a M54B30 with a 6-speed from a 03 on 330xi.

Bill, My Touring has 170K as well. The problem I have with the drivetrain is the universal joints make noise. I just hope I do not have a diff issue.

[Whitexi]

I was thinking of you when I wrote this - hoping you didn't have anything similar happen.

No visible leaks from diff, and levels were still good. Differentials were just changed with Mobile 1 about 8k ago.

I changed all my drive train fluids out about 30k ago and used redline oil's. I just changed my passenger outer axle seal and always top the diff whenever I open the drive train up.


My Touring is going to be getting a M54B30 with a 6-speed from a 03 on 330xi.

Bill, My Touring has 170K as well. The problem I have with the drivetrain is the universal joints make noise. I just hope I do not have a diff issue.

Is that what your noise is?

[billschusteriv]

My Touring is going to be getting a M54B30 with a 6-speed from a 03 on 330xi.

Noice! I was reading up on this swap - hope you're getting as much as you can from the engine compartment! One thing that sticks in my memory is the intake being a different size between the 325/328 and 330.


Bill, My Touring has 170K as well. The problem I have with the drivetrain is the universal joints make noise. I just hope I do not have a diff issue.

Have you checked the drivetrain and universals for play? The Bentley manual said that the tolerances on these driveshafts and universals are pretty tight and any indication of play is a cause to believe something needs further examination, repair, or replacement. I didn't have any issues on the differential failure. No noises or anything. Everything "seemed" okay.


I changed all my drive train fluids out about 30k ago and used redline oil's. I just changed my passenger outer axle seal and always top the diff whenever I open the drive train up.

When I was looking for synthetics to put in the differential, I had Mobil 1, Valvoline, Royal Purple, Lucas, and something else to choose from. Maybe I did see Redline. I don't know if they had the right fluid weight on hand. I remember being torn between Mobil 1 and Purple.

Good practice to top off - I try to do this with the transmission on the e30 I have.

The front diff was still completely full when it was pulled... which makes we wonder about the mode of failure.


Is that what your noise is? You've heard the noise from mikey's xi?

[mikeyb74]

My driveshaft makes clunking noises while accelerating or when you are off the pedal then right back on. Like when you have to slow down for a red light which turns green so you give it gas to maintain speed. Thats when I get the clunking noise. I think Whitexi had a thread about this on the "order" forum about something similar.

[az3579]

My driveshaft makes clunking noises while accelerating or when you are off the pedal then right back on. Like when you have to slow down for a red light which turns green so you give it gas to maintain speed. Thats when I get the clunking noise. I think Whitexi had a thread about this on the "order" forum about something similar.

I had that issue with the E30 right before I sold it. That was actually THE thing that forced me to sell it; I couldn't stand throwing parts at it and not getting fixed anymore.
The last thing I replaced was the driveshaft, and it still made that noise. It was RWD.

[billschusteriv]

My driveshaft makes clunking noises while accelerating or when you are off the pedal then right back on. Like when you have to slow down for a red light which turns green so you give it gas to maintain speed. Thats when I get the clunking noise. I think Whitexi had a thread about this on the "order" forum about something similar.

Yep sounds a lot like a universal. All that slop could muck up some of the bearings (e.g.driveshaft bearing). May want to put that on the short list?

[Whitexi]

Noice! I was reading up on this swap - hope you're getting as much as you can from the engine compartment! One thing that sticks in my memory is the intake being a different size between the 325/328 and 330.



Have you checked the drivetrain and universals for play? The Bentley manual said that the tolerances on these driveshafts and universals are pretty tight and any indication of play is a cause to believe something needs further examination, repair, or replacement. I didn't have any issues on the differential failure. No noises or anything. Everything "seemed" okay.



When I was looking for synthetics to put in the differential, I had Mobil 1, Valvoline, Royal Purple, Lucas, and something else to choose from. Maybe I did see Redline. I don't know if they had the right fluid weight on hand. I remember being torn between Mobil 1 and Purple.

Good practice to top off - I try to do this with the transmission on the e30 I have.

The front diff was still completely full when it was pulled... which makes we wonder about the mode of failure.

You've heard the noise from mikey's xi?

No lol but we all follow our threads when theres a noise hahaha.


My driveshaft makes clunking noises while accelerating or when you are off the pedal then right back on. Like when you have to slow down for a red light which turns green so you give it gas to maintain speed. Thats when I get the clunking noise. I think Whitexi had a thread about this on the "order" forum about something similar.

I did and it has gotten better but it wasn't my drive shaft. It was completely out and was deemed ok. It was the redline fluid I put in my tranny which did not seem to cooperate it much. soooo I had it flushed and filled with the oem and it has gotten alot better but I am hoping its a software issue because it didn't happen as soon as I used the red line and its been doing it for over a year now roughly 20k or so. Its not only when I get on the gas to quick if I stop suddenly I feel it bump down from 3rd to 2nd, but again its completely random. Im taking it to another member on the forum to have him update the trans software. If that don't work then im gonna ride it till it breaks because like az3579 said there's nothing worse than throwing parts at it only to not have it fixed.

I also had the transmission checked for any codes and there were none at all.

[billschusteriv]

FIXED.

The seized front differential was swapped for a used one and filled with Mobil1 75W-90.

For the next fluid change I'm going to do some more reading... and maybe have the factory stuff put in the differential and transfer case.

During the swap, the front subframe was lowered and the differential was removed. In the process of replacement, the axles were disconnected. The half shaft on the right side passes through the oil pan. It was noted the "seal" between the differential and the right side half shaft was leaking a little bit and got replaced.

[danewilson77]

Great news Billy!!!!

[mikeyb74]

Awesome!

WhiteXI, I did a tranny, diff, and t-case fluid change back in July 2010. I used the OEM fluids from BMW but went with Redline 75w90 for the front and rear diffs. The car has made these noises since I purchased it a year ago.