BMW Performance Strut Bar - Cracked

[az3579]

This is why it's not worth living in the Northeast.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/11/edf9fb569b2f928ac7316797b8943efa.jpg


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[Pip]

Ouch. Pot hole or something?

[danewilson77]

Whaaaaaa......?

No flame suit required!

[3ZHP]

Not so sure I'd trust these anymore after seeing this. Was a great looking bar. Interested in knowing, the rest of the story.


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[az3579]

I don't think there really is any more to the story. I'm fairly certain that one of my trips through NYC's amazing interstate system did this to my bar.
I'm SHOCKED that two or more of my BBS wheels aren't destroyed.

[Silber92]

Holy smokes. That is painful to look at.

And I thought the roads around here sucked.

[rguti153]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/11/736db52c2a606088e904cb86d808ff59.jpg

[danewilson77]

Yep. Not the toughest bar. Especially considering the outlandish price.

No flame suit required!

[BavarianZHP]

Oh man. I had heard people had broken them in the past by flexing them with their arms. Just thought they were really buff. :-( Sorry for your loss.

[az3579]

Yep. Not the toughest bar. Especially considering the outlandish price.

No flame suit required!

It did its job; my strut towers are saved... for now.
The shitty part is, I won't be able to buy one 'till next year, so that's going to be a massive risk zone. :facepalm


http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/11/736db52c2a606088e904cb86d808ff59.jpg

That is EXACTLY the face I made when I went to go check my oil.


I really don't like striking items off my mod list.

[rguti153]

shit sucks .... Damn. buying the same one again ?

[az3579]

shit sucks .... Damn. buying the same one again ?

You mean if I could find one for sale for the price I bought mine for? Hell no.

It's gonna have to be cheeeeeeeeeeeap. My car budget is completely blown for the year.

[rguti153]

lol shit is expensive but so pretty

[mbeckel]

You mean if I could find one for sale for the price I bought mine for? Hell no.

It's gonna have to be cheeeeeeeeeeeap. My car budget is completely blown for the year.
Why not buy an ECS bar? Or one from modbargains?

[UdubBadger]

http://youtu.be/YEBQH0jL8AY

[UdubBadger]

lol shit is expensive but so pretty

Some guy selling one on fbook in the 135i group... Wants $900.

Nope.

[az3579]

Why not buy an ECS bar? Or one from modbargains?

I had an ECS bar, which was also CF. If I was going to have a CF bar, then I had to have the BMW Perf one. I really didn't think this was possible for it to crack like that.

Based on the horrible experience a few have had with Modbargains on this forum, I will never buy anything from them.

Now the tough part will be finding a bar that looks good (to me) and is made of solid aluminum.

[mbeckel]

I had an ECS bar, which was also CF. If I was going to have a CF bar, then I had to have the BMW Perf one. I really didn't think this was possible for it to crack like that.

Based on the horrible experience a few have had with Modbargains on this forum, I will never buy anything from them.

Now the tough part will be finding a bar that looks good (to me) and is made of solid aluminum.
Solid aluminum may be the way to go. You can always get one in black. That'd look good as well

[az3579]

Solid aluminum may be the way to go. You can always get one in black. That'd look good as well

Yeah, just need to find one I like. When I bought the CF one, I didn't like the look of any other strut bar. I want it to have presence.

[rguti153]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/11/008db7e2ccebf6f73f4e9acc6493b751.jpg I cant find one anywhere rare

[ELCID86]

Wow BP. That sucks. Sorry that happened and is very worrisome to the rest of us that own these.


Thumbs, iPhone, Tapatalk.

[BavarianZHP]

Solid aluminum may be the way to go. You can always get one in black. That'd look good as well

I've heard good things about the M3 strut bar and the mason engineering ones.

[az3579]

I've heard good things about the M3 strut bar and the mason engineering ones.

Not liking either of those. :(


http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/11/008db7e2ccebf6f73f4e9acc6493b751.jpg I cant find one anywhere rare

I would imagine any CF bar would have the same problem. It's just not as strong as metal is for an application like this, I would think... that's one reason why I can't buy the Turner bar that looks oh-so-awesome, but is made of CF.

[danewilson77]

BP, you're going to buy another one?

The friendliest forum on the planet.

[az3579]

BP, you're going to buy another one?

The friendliest forum on the planet.


Another bar, yes, but it won't be a CF one.

[danewilson77]

Understood. I think the Mason Engineering bar would be fine in your track tool kit.

The friendliest forum on the planet.

[az3579]

Understood. I think the Mason Engineering bar would be fine in your track tool kit.

The friendliest forum on the planet.


How do you like your UUC StrutBarbarian brace? The price looks right to me and I kind of like the way it looks. I would think magnesium is pretty strong, no?
Not liking the way the Mason bar looks. If I can't find something that's effective AND looks good, then I'll probably just skip the looks department and go for what works.

[danewilson77]

How do you like your UUC StrutBarbarian brace? The price looks right to me and I kind of like the way it looks. I would think magnesium is pretty strong, no?
Not liking the way the Mason bar looks. If I can't find something that's effective AND looks good, then I'll probably just skip the looks department and go for what works.
I like it a lot. Super rigid and great strut tower protection.

I'll sell you mine so I can pick up a Mason. Deal?

No flame suit required!

[az3579]

I like it a lot. Super rigid and great strut tower protection.

I'll sell you mine so I can pick up a Mason. Deal?

No flame suit required!

Just changing things up?
I don't know if I'll be able to buy yours if you're looking at doing this soon. Need to get on track first before any other things are bought for the car. That will take a few months.

[OtterEffect]

Man that sucks! How cold was it? Maybe they're prone to cracking when the CF gets really cold. I've heard good things about the Strong Strut but they are a little pricey ($400).


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[Avetiso]

All show, no go product. I'm sticking with my M3 bar, or another bar that will be made of METAL.

[mLuMaN83]

That shouldn't happen for that price. That sucks, dude.

Metal.

[johnrando]

So sorry BP. Hate seeing that.

[cakM3]

I have never seen this problem until BP texted this picture to me today. I myself haven't experienced this issue but will keep an eye out for it on both cars now...

[az3579]

Man that sucks! How cold was it? Maybe they're prone to cracking when the CF gets really cold. I've heard good things about the Strong Strut but they are a little pricey ($400).


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Not cold at all... It's been high 50's, 60's and maybe a couple days of 70's here recently.


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[LivesNearCostco]

I have the M3 strut bar and think it's served me well, but the end plates are cast aluminum and can crack if abused. How do I know? Because I bought mine with a cracked and repaired end plate. It turns out it wasn't repaired correctly so I had to buy a replacement end plate.

The BMW Performance Strut Bar wins the style/looks department for sure. The M3 bar is not very pretty. If I had to get another one, probably Mason or Rogue Engineering. Actually I want one for for my E36 too, but might try a cheap metal one with hinged ends first.

[webster]

you want to have the solid locking end points though, not hinge or welded. that's why i went with the Rogue Engineering CF. if properly made CF should be as strong or stronger than aluminum.

http://www.rebmw.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/suspension/stb/hinges.jpg

http://www.rebmw.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/suspension/stb/re_cf_stb_600b.jpg

http://www.rebmw.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/suspension/stb/re_cf_stb_600c.jpg

unfortunately, the product is NLA :( so you're probably best off with the RACEBRACE (http://www.rogueengineering.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=RE&Product_Code=RE_RB&Attributes=Yes&Quantity=1)

[UdubBadger]

All show, no go product. I'm sticking with my M3 bar, or another bar that will be made of METAL.

Same

[Vas]

Ouch. That sucks. I like my m3 bar.

[az3579]

you want to have the solid locking end points though, not hinge or welded. that's why i went with the Rogue Engineering CF. if properly made CF should be as strong or stronger than aluminum.


The BMW Performance bar is all one piece, no hinges or any detachable pieces, so what would explain why this one cracked? I thought I remembered reading another report of a cracked BMW Performance bar cracking as well some time ago.


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[webster]

yeah i meant on future purchases (eg, aluminum bars).

maybe the BMW Perf. was weaker cause of the kinks? everything i've read says a straight bar is always stronger.

[BCS_ZHP]

BP, CF is supposedly stronger than steel when designed correctly. So on the designed correctly note, take that broken strut brace back to the dealer and lean on their compassion to see what kind of restitution they might do for you. When these were selling & in stock, they were $999, maybe they'll give you a stock M3 brace as a replacement.
Bruce

[330i ZHP]

Charlie, didn't you say you swapped bars with BP one day when you were cleaning cars?...did you give him the defective one?

































jk

[Avetiso]

Charlie, didn't you say you swapped bars with BP one day when you were cleaning cars?...did you give him the defective one?

































jk

:rofl

[kakashi169]

Sorry to hear OP. This made me check mine to see if the one I have cracked.

[prowlerflyer]

I think as noted already, the CF BMW bar is not a pure performance piece. It does prize looks over pure function. That said, it is a very functional bar and being CF is VERY stiff and lite.

In one way, it functioned exactly as designed. There had to have been a major stress directed through the strut towers, causing brittle failure (CF's normal failure mode). If not, it would be a fatigue failure, which is uncommon with CF.

If this is not a fatigue failure, and had been a metal bar; brittle fracture can still happen (bar failure not rod ends), or bar deformation, which in either case the bar is garbage.

Real drag BP, wonder what BMW N/A would say about it if you showed them the pics? What do you have to loose?

[trancenation]

Time to run some FEA on this performance bar!

[jwalther]

Curious how you came to realize it cracked? I'm checking mine this morning. . .

To the posters commenting about cold weather. . .does it really make a difference? Lots of CF to be found in airplanes today operating at temps well below what a car will ever experience.

[cakM3]

Charlie, didn't you say you swapped bars with BP one day when you were cleaning cars?...did you give him the defective one?


jk


That's very funny Stuart :)


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[az3579]

BP, CF is supposedly stronger than steel when designed correctly. So on the designed correctly note, take that broken strut brace back to the dealer and lean on their compassion to see what kind of restitution they might do for you. When these were selling & in stock, they were $999, maybe they'll give you a stock M3 brace as a replacement.
Bruce

I didn't buy my bar from any dealer. All that would be is wasted effort.


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[Avetiso]

I don't think a dealer would listen if you didn't buy it from them, but perhaps BMW NA might listen? It's worth a shot. It's a massive bummer if you just lose the bar like that. :(

[WOLFN8TR]

BP, CF is supposedly stronger than steel when designed correctly. So on the designed correctly note, take that broken strut brace back to the dealer and lean on their compassion to see what kind of restitution they might do for you. When these were selling & in stock, they were $999, maybe they'll give you a stock M3 brace as a replacement.
Bruce

Sorry to hear the news BP. This is the first I've heard about one of these breaking. First thing I did was go look at mine like others stated. Then I did a Google search to see if I could find any info on these breaking, nothing. Is your bar stressed cracked or actually broken in half? I would do as Bruce stated and try going that route, you never know they might work something out with you.

Charlie has a spare strut brace. :drevil

[BCS_ZHP]

I didn't buy my bar from any dealer. All that would be is wasted effort.


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BP,
I didn't buy that 540iT from the dealer either but the pixels in the dash speedo module were going out at 10-11 years old, way past warranty coverage time. I asked for consideration from the dealer even though I had only owned the car a month, they contacted BMW NA, BMW NA provided a free new dash speedo module, an $800 item, I only had to pay the dealer 1 hour of labor to program it to the car and install it.
Bruce

[az3579]

All I can do is mention it to the dealer I'll be going to for my airbag recall. We'll see what they say. This dealer gets awesome reviews so maybe, just maybe, they'll care.


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[az3579]

Here are some more pictures of the carnage.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/12/a91fb76bbfdf3caa48bf7b30218a30a1.jpg

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/12/cfd30507bc95e0ac9b85b782e4285275.jpg

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/12/58678dbc213b0a12b7d18ff2ce7c3eab.jpg

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/12/f2e7303850a5e0cc60669a3628d93f31.jpg

It is so broken that if I put the slightest amount of pressure on it, it will snap in half. It is cracked precisely down the middle of the bar.

The problem now is that I can't find my original nuts to put back on to run without the bar, so now I have to put it back on until I can source the nuts. Talk about a slap in the face.


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[Avetiso]

Ugh. What a downer. It's probably going to fully snap if you drive with it like that. :( Not that it changes anything at this point.

[fantinno]

A few notes from a member who works with composite structures for a living (although I would not consider myself an expert by any means, I probably have more experience than most)...

As has been mentioned, CFRP by weight is much stiffer than alu and even steel, at least in tension. Individual carbon fibers are actually quite prone to failure in compression in the axial direction due to an effect call micro-buckling. Here is a microscopic image to help explain:

http://paginas.fe.up.pt/~stpinho/research/res_int/dev_fail_crit_files/image008.jpg

The fibers will buckle and fracture within the matrix under a compressive load. This will weaken the laminate structure locally and provide a propagation point for failure. I'm willing to bet this is what happened in the OPs strut bar.

Woven fabrics are less susceptible to this due to the orientation of the fibers, however, stress fractures due to micro-buckling from compressive loads and in-plane shear stress are still significant design considerations and cannot be ignored.

In my industry, parts made primarily of woven fabrics are referred to as "black aluminum". They are primarily made for low weight and aesthetics in non-structural applications and cannot be expected to function significantly better than an aluminum piece of similar weight and construction. I don't know the laminate structure of this bar, but I'd be surprised if it was a uni-directional laminate under the visible layer.

CFRP is a stunning material, but only when the loads are well understood and the part has been designed to take advantage of the non-isotropic properties of the material in the loaded directions.

I'd probably buy an aluminum bar, but that's just my preference :)

[UdubBadger]

That's really cool info

[danewilson77]

That's really cool info
+1

No flame suit required!

[Avetiso]

That's really cool info

+2

[Don Adolfo]

Wow. Great info and it makes sense. I recently missed out on buying a BMW Performance Strut Bar...maybe for the best? I have an aluminum bar on my Roadster and may go with one for the ZHP. Thanks.

[Oli77]

A few notes from a member who works with composite structures for a living (although I would not consider myself an expert by any means, I probably have more experience than most)...

As has been mentioned, CFRP by weight is much stiffer than alu and even steel, at least in tension. Individual carbon fibers are actually quite prone to failure in compression in the axial direction due to an effect call micro-buckling. Here is a microscopic image to help explain:

http://paginas.fe.up.pt/~stpinho/research/res_int/dev_fail_crit_files/image008.jpg

The fibers will buckle and fracture within the matrix under a compressive load. This will weaken the laminate structure locally and provide a propagation point for failure. I'm willing to bet this is what happened in the OPs strut bar. :)

When you say compression in the axial direction, in this case you mean if the two strut towers move toward each other, that kind of compression? If so, isn't CF a poor choice of material?

[D1ESEL]

I really like the Dixis one, it would be a great replacement

http://www.canibeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Fizzystatus-e463.jpg

[cakM3]

Fantinno....very interesting info you put out. Looks like I will be keeping an eye on my strut bars more often...

Now that I have read his post on the matter...in the event my Performance strut bar cracks like Botond's did, I'll replace them with an OEM ///M aluminum strut bar...

[fantinno]

When you say compression in the axial direction, in this case you mean if the two strut towers move toward each other, that kind of compression? If so, isn't CF a poor choice of material?

I'm referring specifically to a load along the long direction of the fiber on a local level. In the picture from my original post, the buckled fibers are being loaded in compression in the axial direction. The fibers above and below that which are running perpendicular would be loaded transversely by the same loading force, these fibers would not see buckling failure, but in tension, their properties would be dictated by the thermoplastic matrix (so... Not very good).

In the case of the strut bar, the woven fibers are running +\- 45° to the load. The strut towers moving together would most likely result in primarily compressive loading with a combination of more complex local tensile/compressive forces due to bending/Interlaminate reactions.

Tl;dr: as configured, might not be the best material choice (speculation, I don't know the laminate structure), but it could be engineered to work well in this application. [edit] I'm definitely not trying to say carbon bars are bad, just that composites in general are much more complex than metal, and are much more difficult to design well.

[az3579]

I really like the Dixis one, it would be a great replacement

http://www.canibeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Fizzystatus-e463.jpg

Why the hell do I only like the expensive ones? Argh...


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[UdubBadger]

Why the hell do I only like the expensive ones? Argh...


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You're not alone bud

[WOLFN8TR]

Good Strut Bar Info

http://www.rogueengineering.com/rogue/StrutB/RE_CF_STB.html

Exoticspeed RCF Strut Bar

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Exoticspeed-RCF-Front-Aluminum-Strut-bar-All-BMW-E46-M3-2000-05-L6-Carbon-/261492522262?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ce22b3d16&vxp=mtr

[Oli77]

I'm referring specifically to a load along the long direction of the fiber on a local level. In the picture from my original post, the buckled fibers are being loaded in compression in the axial direction. The fibers above and below that which are running perpendicular would be loaded transversely by the same loading force, these fibers would not see buckling failure, but in tension, their properties would be dictated by the thermoplastic matrix (so... Not very good).

In the case of the strut bar, the woven fibers are running +\- 45° to the load. The strut towers moving together would most likely result in primarily compressive loading with a combination of more complex local tensile/compressive forces due to bending/Interlaminate reactions.

Tl;dr: as configured, might not be the best material choice (speculation, I don't know the laminate structure), but it could be engineered to work well in this application. [edit] I'm definitely not trying to say carbon bars are bad, just that composites in general are much more complex than metal, and are much more difficult to design well.

Thanks for the info. I didn't realize the weave may not be a pattern of fiber throughout the bar. Sorry to threadjack BP.

[D1ESEL]

Why the hell do I only like the expensive ones? Argh...


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Because exclusivity :pimp

I'm right with you, after seeing your BMW Perf one crack that sealed the deal on watching for a Dixis one for when I get a ZHP

[prowlerflyer]

Fantinno has put up some fantastic and spot on info, but keep in mind before we all go running and screaming away from the CF bar, remember it's all in the engineering. Properly engineered CF (particularly in its weave directions and layers, with respect to it's expected load) is stronger than almost any metal equivilent of similar weight. CF also does not alter it's facture mode or point much with temp change, unlike metal, which can do both.

To put it in perspective, F1 cars (and most high end racers for that matter) actually use metal parts as the failure points in most of their suspension components!

While I am under no illusion that BMW is beyond making a mistake, they do, I believe, engineer to a fairly high standard, particularly special parts. With the exeption of F1 other high end racing though, parts are engingeered with cost in mind. Sorry, beginning to sound contrdictory.

[fantinno]

^I agree wholeheartedly with all this.

Just a thought, but I think it's also worth mentioning that the BMW CF bar is probably well engineered to handle the sort of loads it is intended for, i.e. predictable, relatively "smooth" hard cornering loads you'd get at a track or canyon carving.

Shock loading from large potholes and crappy US freeways, especially when coupled with an already stiffened suspension and lower profile tires (your first defense against the road!) are extreme loads. Potholes and such can fracture an aluminum rim, so it's not surprising the could do the same to a strut bar.

[az3579]

Shock loading from large potholes and crappy US freeways, especially when coupled with an already stiffened suspension and lower profile tires (your first defense against the road!) are extreme loads. Potholes and such can fracture an aluminum rim, so it's not surprising the could do the same to a strut bar.

While they may be true, there is absolutely no reason for something to not cause damage to a rim but at the same time be able to destroy a strut bar. That is asinine.

[johnrando]

Great info Fantinno and thanks for adding to it Gary. That is strange BP. I still hate seeing those pics of that bar.

[derbo]

Honestly I am not surprised it did this. I think the biggest problem with carbon fiber is that it is hard to see a failure until it is a huge failure like a snap. A lot of small stress cracks may not be visible until its fair too late. I've seen countless stories of carbon bike frames/forks fail in this area because of the crappy roads. The BMW CF bar looks great but the way it sits, maybe designed to fold just like the M3 Bar in a side collision.

Great info btw Fantinno.

[LivesNearCostco]

Maybe... if the strut towers are flexing up and down in addition to moving towards and away from each other, that might increase the stress on the center piece compared to a 3-part bar without hinges, which would deliver more load to the center than a 3-part bar with hinges. Bending forces from the strut towards should just wiggle the ends of a hinged bar up and down without stressing the middle section.

I don't think the BMW aluminum center section is stronger than the CF performance bar, but under extreme stress it's more likely to bend than crack. (the end plates can crack but are individually replaceable.) And as the engineer pointed out, aluminum might handle compressive forces better than CF.


The BMW Performance bar is all one piece, no hinges or any detachable pieces, so what would explain why this one cracked? I thought I remembered reading another report of a cracked BMW Performance bar cracking as well some time ago.

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[JeffSaysThings]

...I don't think the BMW aluminum center section is stronger than the CF performance bar, but under extreme stress it's more likely to bend than crack. (the end plates can crack but are individually replaceable.) And as the engineer pointed out, aluminum might handle compressive forces better than CF.

Exactly. An aluminum (or steel) bar could definitely handle compressive loads better than carbon. CFRP isn't very efficient in compression, for the reasons Fantinno pointed out earlier.

Shock towers react compression load from the springs. One of the purposes of a strut bar is to react that compression load from one tower to the other. From the pictures shown, the bar appears to be hollow and only a few plies thick in each wall. If the fibers are primarily +/- 45 degrees to the length of the bar, it may have a reasonable amount of compression stiffness (and strength). However in the last picture, the plies look to be primarily perpendicular to the length of the bar. To me, that means the bar is probably not as stiff, nor as strong, as it could be.

I think it was said earlier though, that these parts are designed and built to a meet cost requirements, so I doubt any engineers spent 12 months analyzing the ply stack-up. In the end, the bars are probably adequately stiff to meet their intended purpose, but the tower deflection due to an impact load (pothole, etc) overloaded it.

Lots of products are made from CFRP when they are probably better off being built from aluminum, titanium, fiberglass, etc. Carbon fiber has marketing appeal though, and it looks neat...

P.S. This is my first post, hi guys!

[Oli77]

Hi Jeff, please feel free to make an introduction thread and show us pics of your car!

[johnrando]

+1 Welcome Jeff. We have a new members section.

[fantinno]

Welcome Jeff :-)

It's probably worth mentioning that there's always the chance that the bar was just straight up defective from manufacture. It's not a "flight critical" part, so to speak. I doubt they non-destructive test every single bar for voids and defects. We NDT everything we make at my company, and even still, sometimes (rarely) things just break for unanticipated reasons.

[danewilson77]

Hi Jeff, please feel free to make an introduction thread and show us pics of your car!
+1

+1 Welcome Jeff. We have a new members section.


Welcome Jeff :-)

It's probably worth mentioning that there's always the chance that the bar was just straight up defective from manufacture. It's not a "flight critical" part, so to speak. I doubt they non-destructive test every single bar for voids and defects. We NDT everything we make at my company, and even still, sometimes (rarely) things just break for unanticipated reasons.


No flame suit required!

[az3579]

Even if cost was a consideration, this bar is insanely expensive as it is. If cost was a consideration, perhaps the price of the bar is far too high to begin with compared to what level of "performance" can be expected. If it was $300 direct from BMW then I'd understand, shrug it off, and move on, but it isn't... this is over a $1,000 part. There are no excuses for something like this; it simply does not compute.

Ultimately, if this bar wasn't meant to "perform", then perhaps they shouldn't have misadvertised it as a "performance" part.

This makes me wonder if they have learned anything when they made the stock strut bar for the F8x M3/M3, or the CFRP driveshaft...

[pilotnick1203]

I has one :shifty


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[nextelbuddy]

Do you still have your old bar cracked are you willing to sell it?

[Mpower04]

Bumping this up. Has anyone else experienced this since?

[johnrando]

Bumping this up. Has anyone else experienced this since?

I have heard of 1 or 2 cracking, but (knock on wood), mine has not.

[t.er]

That would really suck, these are worth a pretty penny nowadays

[WOLFN8TR]

The BMW CF Strut bar is hollow inside and not worth the price these are going for. Don’t get me wrong, these are a very nice piece but are more bling than performance. Unfortunately these are selling for $1000 to $1500 now. Beings these are prone to cracking those that paid that much are going to be upset when a solid version is released in the near future that will be both “Bling and Performance”. [emoji6]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200929/56df4b3f06943440c40ddc87566417bf.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200929/2d452a1e3d2a262877593862a0c17e01.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200929/130d8917302834a0c4f720a5c88b9e11.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200929/608cafb31e52f5ddf31eb0e17676f397.jpg

[Mpower04]

BMW is releasing one or a replica? Also, does this fit the M3 as well if the PN I have is for non M? I would just go try it but I have my M3 up on stands currently.

[az3579]

This thread ticks me off every time I see it.

I am curious what you mean by this though, Gary:



Beings these are prone to cracking those that paid that much are going to be upset when a solid version is released in the near future that will be both “Bling and Performance”.

[Mpower04]

This thread ticks me off every time I see it.

I am curious what you mean by this though, Gary:

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I saw someone on FB a couple months ago got their cracked bar reinforced/fixed by Karbonious, maybe they're working on something. :confused