OS Giken Limited Slip Differential Failure - Why you shouldn't do business with OSG

[wertyu78]

This is yet another BMW Limited Slip Differential Failure by OS Giken, and OSG won't stand behind their product as they advertise! In fact, OS Giken failures are sprouting about all over the web. The failures are not only with the BMW based products.

My OS Giken BM235-HA Superlock LSD failed. The unit had less than 1,000 miles on it in total. It was always run with the OS Giken OS-250R OS011-KA1 Gear Fluid. My car is daily driven. It sees 95% commute duty, and 5% track use. It was occasionally "hooned", but thats besides the point.

The failure started on a Monday. The differential was making a slight clunking/popping sound (almost identical to clutch binding) on my way to work. By the time I made it to the office, the noise had increased significantly. Not only was it audibly louder, but the drive-train shock it produced was much more violent.

The following day (Tuesday), I noticed that the differential was acting as if it were welded or a spool was in the carrier in lieu of a LSD. The wheels were moving at the same speed. This created lots of wheel hop and parking lot chirping. Upon leaving for lunch, I pulled out of the office parking lot and began accelerating at a normal rate. The car suddenly stopped moving (though the rpm's continued to rise) and then suddenly I felt/heard a terrible explosion.

After having the car towed to a shop, removing the differential, and removing the differential case cover; We were greeted with this:

http://i61.tinypic.com/seuhqf.jpg


and after draining all of the fluid.....

http://i58.tinypic.com/sgmnmq.jpg


OS Giken USA Headquarters in Torrance, CA was contacted immediately. Emails were exchanged. Long story short, after speaking with Sean, Jonathan, and Mike; I was told that OS Giken was aware that there was an engineering deficiency with this particular unit and that it has been removed from the market. There was no indication as to when a revised unit would be released (if there will even be one). Also, they would not answer my question as to what they've done in effort to contact those who have a known defective unit.

OS Giken stated that they couldn't replace the unit as they are known to be defective and would not process a refund. Instead, they offered 30% off on any future OSG products.


Anyhow, I just wanted to share this with anyone who was considering purchasing an OSG LSD. OSG claims to be the most reliable LSD on the market.... but this is obviously not the case. Spare yourself the headache and don't end up with a very costly paperweight. Take your business elsewhere, like Dan with Diffsonline! That's where my next diff is coming from.


Update: More photos of OS Giken failure from Minnoe07's thread at this post : http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?14202-OS-Giken-Limited-Slip-Differential-Failure-Why-you-shouldn-t-do-business-with-OSG&p=390112#post390112



tags: os giken failure, lsd, e46, zhp, bm235-ha, osg

[KevinC]

3 words: small claims court. Slam-dunk victory.

[Newjack]

Damn dude that's nuts! A brand new diff failing in under 1000 miles is absurd.

I'm going to go ahead and guess they are going to face a serious lawsuit from this if they don't make it right with the customers that purchased these diffs.

Thanks for giving everyone here a heads up, I hope everything works out for you OP. Do you still have your stock open diff?

[wertyu78]

I'm driving on a stock 3.07 open diff now. It's also the diff I've been driving most of the year with (LSD had been sitting around a lot) 3.07 - better for those long trips I took


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[HokieZHP]

Sorry to hear that! Do you know if this "engineering deficiency" is on other LSD's that they produce or just the one for the e46? I'm looking at LSD's for my 335.

[wertyu78]

Sorry to hear that! Do you know if this "engineering deficiency" is on other LSD's that they produce or just the one for the e46? I'm looking at LSD's for my 335.

From my understanding (from both OSG and several credible sources), the issue effects several OSG models. It has something to do with the size and strength of the gears inside the unit itself.


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[Avetiso]

That's a load of crap, right there. Sue them.

[Newjack]

From my understanding (from both OSG and several credible sources), the issue effects several OSG models. It has something to do with the size and strength of the gears inside the unit itself.


Sent from my iPhone


http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lggip3KiFL1qgq4hio1_500.gif


That's a load of crap, right there. Sue them.

+1

[Smilez]

Wow really. And I sell this product. Maybe I should hold on it.

[az3579]

Well I guess maybe I shouldn't consider biting the bullet and doing diff fluid changes every 3 months by getting an OSG unit. Thanks for the heads up.

[NoVAphotog]

Sorry to hear about this...and here I was thinking they were the "holy grail" of LSD's...

Sidenote: I spoke with a friend of mine here that races E36 M3's about LSD choices and specs and he said that for his street car and even in his full on, built, race spec M3 he does NOT run an OS Giken, when I asked him why, he said there is no point. For our cars, and even race spec cars, a 2 or 3 clutch carrier is more than enough. Obviously, with the race car it's the 3 clutch adjustable race carrier, but for a primarily street driven car he said a 2-clutch standard LSD setup is MORE than enough.

[Smilez]

why did you choose OS Giken ovs Cucso

[slater]

dang, that sucks - mostly about their customer service. i hope justice is done.

peter

[johnrando]

As others have said, that's crazy. Absolutely small claims court and report them to the BBB.

[wertyu78]

why did you choose OS Giken ovs Cucso

I chose OSG under the impression I was buying the best of the best. Their marketing sold me. I believed that it was the ultimate street/weekend warrior LSD and bit the bullet. Unfortunately, this turned out to be quite the opposite.

[wertyu78]

Update: I forgot to mention that OSG was actively marketing the BM235-HA (despite what they told me in an email) until just very recently. It's been removed from the website.

[Smilez]

Sorry to hear. Definitely take them to small claims. Can't believe they wont refund you, knowing there is a defect. Good thing you didn't sell your OEM diff.

[wertyu78]

Sorry to hear. Definitely take them to small claims. Can't believe they wont refund you, knowing there is a defect. Good thing you didn't sell your OEM diff.

I've got a bunch of diffs back home but I recently moved across the country. The diff I'm on is on it's last leg (came from the supercharged car I parted last year), so a diffsonline diff will be on it's way very soon.


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[az3579]

I've got a bunch of diffs back home but I recently moved across the country. The diff I'm on is on it's last leg (came from the supercharged car I parted last year), so a diffsonline diff will be on it's way very soon.


Sent from my iPhone

I can't believe you have to spend more of your money because something with a design defect broke. That's ridiculous.

[cakM3]

After reading this thread, OP sorry you had to go thru this mishap, I'm glad the LSD I got from Rob isn't an OSG LSD......that's messed up....

[ELCID86]

3 words: small claims court.

+1

[danewilson77]

Such a pity.

Standing by for these guys to contact me, asking me to remove this thread....lol.

[az3579]

Such a pity.

Standing by for these guys to contact me, asking me to remove this thread....lol.

Even if they did, I don't think that will happen. Covering up bad customer service is not our style, right boss?

[Avetiso]

Such a pity.

Standing by for these guys to contact me, asking me to remove this thread....lol.

Please post up your respectful, yet stiff and undermining response. :)

[danewilson77]

Please post up your respectful, yet stiff and undermining response. :)
If they contact me, you'll know.

No flame suit required!

[Vas]

Man this sucks. I was going to go this route for an LSD since they are great units on other cars.

Keep us updated on the resolution.

[Sockethead]

Kpro has an OS Giken in her 135..
I will say that it's been there for a year and a half with no issues. Over 400 HP at the rear wheels and 16 runs at the drag strip last fall....
VAC Motorsport installed it. I think we'll give them a call and see what they say.

Yea Charlie yours is a 3 clutch M3 style from TMS/ Diffs online

[LivesNearCostco]

Normally with VAC Motorsport, they give you a cam (or sell you two), not the other way around! :mwah


Kpro has an OS Giken in her 135..
VAC Motorsport installed it. I think we'll give them a cam and see what they say.

[tkundhi]

Note to original OP, you mentioned the diff has less than 1k miles but not time frame. If it was a recent purchase and you used a credit card call the cc company immediately. Given the information you have shared you have a chance to simply dispute the charge. The timeframe is about 45 days. Much simpler than small claims court.

[wertyu78]

Note to original OP, you mentioned the diff has less than 1k miles but not time frame. If it was a recent purchase and you used a credit card call the cc company immediately. Given the information you have shared you have a chance to simply dispute the charge. The timeframe is about 45 days. Much simpler than small claims court.

I purchased the unit in cash from Minnoe07 on e46fanatics(great guy). The unit I purchased from him was a brand new warranty replacement that OSG sent him after his original unit exploded. OSG claimed that the unit they sent him was a revised unit. Here is a link to the original thread that Minnoe07 posted on E46f after the first LSD exploded:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1016393

Photos from Minnoe07's thread:

http://s10.postimg.org/rdc3lbxtl/image.jpg
http://s10.postimg.org/ianmeay2h/image.jpg
http://s10.postimg.org/lszmaoyyh/image.jpg
http://s10.postimg.org/5pn5avxfd/image.jpg
http://s10.postimg.org/5gpkkykmx/image.jpg

So, that is out of question. In fact, had I not learned about the engineering defect, I would never have contacted OSG to honor any such Warranty. However; this is clearly an engineering deficiency that OSG is well aware of. Apparently OSG has seen this thread (received an email) and they aren't very happy. They've retracted their 30% discount offer and mentioned my burnout video.

They also mentioned that the intended use of their Superlock LSD is for race application only and is not a warrantied item. They claim the only reason the unit was replaced the first time was "out of good faith".

I've spoken to an attorney, and though I didn't purchase the unit new; I am able to pursue OSG under California Law. Whether I will pursue them is still up for grabs. I just moved across the country and started a new job and have a lot going on in my life. The purpose of this thread is to warn others of the defective unit and unethical business practices by OSG.

[wertyu78]

If you search on Google for other failures, you'll find that I am not alone. Here is one of the top three results:

http://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-cup-cars/530730-got-to-get-a-giken-the-only-lsd-to-have-5.html#post8956717

[danewilson77]

Ok....so we're saying OSG doesn't get any Mafia business correct?

Good luck in litigation.

No flame suit required!

[Avetiso]

Ok....so we're saying OSG doesn't get any Mafia business correct?

Good luck in litigation.

No flame suit required!

Aye!

[wertyu78]

Ok....so we're saying OSG doesn't get any Mafia business correct?

Good luck in litigation.

No flame suit required!


Aye!



I certainly wouldn't recommend it!

[danewilson77]

Copy. Just wanted to make sure I understood.

The friendliest forum on the planet.

[tkundhi]

Unfortanely buying it second hand (even though) it was new has complicated manners. I suggest you look at the lawyer and the CA attorney general. Plus that of your state. Maybe even discuss a class action if there is evidence of a pattern of failure. Good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wertyu78]

My home state is now California. I'll be looking into it soon.


Sent from my iPhone

[330i ZHP]

How could you consider them as the Holy Grail - because they were/are cheap?


Sorry to hear about this...and here I was thinking they were the "holy grail" of LSD's...

Sidenote: I spoke with a friend of mine here that races E36 M3's about LSD choices and specs and he said that for his street car and even in his full on, built, race spec M3 he does NOT run an OS Giken, when I asked him why, he said there is no point. For our cars, and even race spec cars, a 2 or 3 clutch carrier is more than enough. Obviously, with the race car it's the 3 clutch adjustable race carrier, but for a primarily street driven car he said a 2-clutch standard LSD setup is MORE than enough.

[NoVAphotog]

How could you consider them as the Holy Grail - because they were/are cheap?
I thought they were one of the best options similar to the BMW Performance strut bar...

[330i ZHP]

Dan Fitzgerald at Diffsonline - pricey but totally worth it for quality, strength and customer service

[wertyu78]

Dan Fitzgerald at Diffsonline - pricey but totally worth it for quality, strength and customer service

No doubt. I've already spoken with Dan and he is working on a unit for me.


Sent from my iPhone

[Sockethead]

He builds all of Turner Motor Sports Diffs for retail and their race team

[Hornung418]

He builds all of Turner Motor Sports Diffs for retail and their race team

And that folks is why you shouldn't look any further than Diffsonline. Dan is the man.

Sent from my GS3.

[wertyu78]

Update:

Apparently OSG has taken several other models off of the market due to failure. One being the E36 product.


Also, my diff from dan is on it's way.


Sent from my iPhone

[M0nk3y]

Update:

Apparently OSG has taken several other models off of the market due to failure. One being the E36 product.


Also, my diff from dan is on it's way.


Sent from my iPhone
What diff did you end up ordering from Dan?

[wertyu78]

What diff did you end up ordering from Dan?

3.64 3 clutch setup.


Sent from my iPhone

[M0nk3y]

3.64 3 clutch setup.


Sent from my iPhone
Custom ramps or 45/45?

[wertyu78]

Custom ramps or 45/45?

Some custom setup. I don't remember the angles.


Sent from my iPhone

[M0nk3y]

Some custom setup. I don't remember the angles.


Sent from my iPhone
Gotcha. Interested though to see how you like it. This will probably be my setup this upcoming year

[wertyu78]

Gotcha. Interested though to see how you like it. This will probably be my setup this upcoming year

I'll ask dan. I should've gone with him from the very beginning, but the OSG came up locally and I went for it. 16389


Sent from my iPhone

[wertyu78]

45/45 70 ft lbs of preload and e90 style carrier bearings


Sent from my iPhone

[derbo]

I want to go with Dan on a rebuild of my M3 Diff.. it's expensive..

[Sockethead]

Do you know what models they took off the market? I'd like to compare to what Kpro has in her 135...

[wertyu78]

I want to go with Dan on a rebuild of my M3 Diff.. it's expensive..

Do it. Go true clutch style and 4.10


Sent from my iPhone

[derbo]

Do it. Go true clutch style and 4.10


Sent from my iPhone

Too baller.

[az3579]

Do it. Go true clutch style and 4.10


Sent from my iPhone

So you're pretty much telling him not to ever drive his car because he'll blow his engine up just driving at highway speeds.

[Avetiso]

So you're pretty much telling him not to ever drive his car because he'll blow his engine up just driving at highway speeds.

Higher ratios are a lot of fun. :biggrin It's definitely a good way to kill your car with dignity.

[az3579]

Higher ratios are a lot of fun. :biggrin It's definitely a good way to kill your car with dignity.

Yeah, fun if you have VTEC... otherwise, what's the point? Your arm will just fall off from shifting so damn much. lol

[derbo]

So you're pretty much telling him not to ever drive his car because he'll blow his engine up just driving at highway speeds.

It's not that bad. :)

70MPH: RPM
3.07=2135RPM
3.62=2518RPM
3.91=2720RPM
4.10=2852RPM



Time to install the CAE shifter too? :) Shifter is pretty cool. It returns to neutral even when it's in gear so its faster to the next gear :)
http://www.shop.cae-racing.de/index.php?a=35&lang=eng

[az3579]

It's not that bad. :)

70MPH: RPM
3.07=2135RPM
3.62=2518RPM
3.91=2720RPM
4.10=2852RPM



Time to install the CAE shifter too? :) Shifter is pretty cool. It returns to neutral even when it's in gear so its faster to the next gear :)
http://www.shop.cae-racing.de/index.php?a=35&lang=eng

Those are all incorrect my friend.

70MPH
3.07 = 2453 RPM
3.62 = 2909 RPM
3.91 = 3125 RPM
4.10 = 3276 RPM

At 70, that is excessive and unacceptable.

At 80 (which I know you've been known to cruise at) it all turns into:

3.07 = 2804 RPM
3.64 = 3324 RPM
3.91 = 3571 RPM
4.10 = 3744 RPM

3744 RPM???? Ain't nobody got time for that.

[slater]

Those are all incorrect my friend.

70MPH
3.07 = 2453 RPM
3.62 = 2909 RPM
3.91 = 3125 RPM
4.10 = 3276 RPM

At 70, that is excessive and unacceptable.

At 80 (which I know you've been known to cruise at) it all turns into:

3.07 = 2804 RPM
3.64 = 3324 RPM
3.91 = 3571 RPM
4.10 = 3744 RPM

3744 RPM???? Ain't nobody got time for that.

LOL. that reminds me of my first 1993 civic with a B16A2 swap (with trans), at 75MPH it was around 4400RPM! but it did it happily and returned 35MPG... of course, i was a lot younger then...

peter

[az3579]

LOL. that reminds me of my first 1993 civic with a B16A2 swap (with trans), at 75MPH it was around 4400RPM! but it did it happily and returned 35MPG... of course, i was a lot younger then...

peter

And didn't top out at 6700 (7000 with software) RPM.

[slater]

And didn't top out at 6700 (7000 with software) RPM.

no, it most definitely did not. 8200RPM. although my 2001 integra type r topped out at 8400RPM. what a car that was - bone stock it was an amazing machine.

peter

[derbo]

Those are all incorrect my friend.

70MPH
3.07 = 2453 RPM
3.62 = 2909 RPM
3.91 = 3125 RPM
4.10 = 3276 RPM

At 70, that is excessive and unacceptable.

At 80 (which I know you've been known to cruise at) it all turns into:

3.07 = 2804 RPM
3.64 = 3324 RPM
3.91 = 3571 RPM
4.10 = 3744 RPM

3744 RPM???? Ain't nobody got time for that.

My fault, I hit the Auto gear ratios for some reason..

I cruise between 70-75mph. :innocent

3744RPM should deter you from speeding :D

On a car I don't daily, it doesn't seem that bad...but shifting to 3rd at 48mph from 2nd gear redline seems ridiculous...LOL

[wertyu78]

My fault, I hit the Auto gear ratios for some reason..

I cruise between 70-75mph. :innocent

3744RPM should deter you from speeding :D

On a car I don't daily, it doesn't seem that bad...but shifting to 3rd at 48mph from 2nd gear redline seems ridiculous...LOL


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mapE8mBTOv8

[derbo]

WAYYY too short Wyatt LOL.

[wertyu78]

WAYYY too short Wyatt LOL.

Lol! But would be fun..


Sent from my iPhone

[derbo]

Lol! But would be fun..


Sent from my iPhone

Maybe as a Sequential or with a CAE shifter..

[wertyu78]

Maybe as a Sequential or with a CAE shifter..

Or faster hands.... You're getting old Derek


Sent from my iPhone

[derbo]

Or faster hands.... You're getting old Derek


Sent from my iPhone

Ripe age of 29 LOL yea right. If you look at the video he also has some sort of extension on the shifter too. Maybe he has a CAE shifter too ;)

Either way, diff probably won't be replaced for awhile. I have a few outstanding items I need to take care of before that happens.

[wertyu78]

Ripe age of 29 LOL yea right. If you look at the video he also has some sort of extension on the shifter too. Maybe he has a CAE shifter too ;)

Either way, diff probably won't be replaced for awhile. I have a few outstanding items I need to take care of before that happens.

I'm sure he does. I'm only kidding, lol.

When are you going to make it down here to SoCal?


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[derbo]

I'm sure he does. I'm only kidding, lol.

When are you going to make it down here to SoCal?


Sent from my iPhone

Not sure. JP has been hounding me to do a buttonwillow trackday with him so maybe end of the year possibly or January?

[wertyu78]

Not sure. JP has been hounding me to do a buttonwillow trackday with him so maybe end of the year possibly or January?

That sounds like a good time to me - I could use a track day....


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[yura]

Haven't read through the thread, so apologies if someone already suggested this, but the simplest way of dealing with this issue is to contact your credit card company, explain the situation and dispute the transaction. CC companies have ways of dealing with such shady sellers.

[wertyu78]

Haven't read through the thread, so apologies if someone already suggested this, but the simplest way of dealing with this issue is to contact your credit card company, explain the situation and dispute the transaction. CC companies have ways of dealing with such shady sellers.

Unfortunately, I cannot do so. I purchased the unit from an individual : it was his warranty replacement (yes, the original unit exploded)


Sent from my iPhone

[wertyu78]

Just heard of a few more failures. Things are getting dicey at OSG from what I'm told.

Will try to get some concrete info to report, or even better, have users post and share their horror stories.


Sent from my iPhone

[wertyu78]

Update:

Stav's E46 OS Giken BM235-HA superlock LSD exploded too:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpost.php?p=16414568&postcount=727

[cakM3]

Just heard of a few more failures. Things are getting dicey at OSG from what I'm told.

Will try to get some concrete info to report, or even better, have users post and share their horror stories.


Sent from my iPhone

DAMN!!! Makes me happy I got Rob's TMS LSD for my ZHP instead......

[wertyu78]

DAMN!!! Makes me happy I got Rob's TMS LSD for my ZHP instead......

No kidding.


Sent from my iPhone

[wertyu78]

bump for google organic listings so others will know NOT TO DO BUSINESS with OS Giken because their differentials FAIL and they do not WARRANTY their products.

/rant over

[Sockethead]

The OSG in Kpro's 135 is still holding up well. She beats it regularly. And 16 12 second runs at the local drag strip a year ago

[wertyu78]

I forgot to post this earlier. View of the OSG taken apart after failure....

22842

[Sockethead]

Pretty much a pile of junk....

[slater]

you could make some neat automotive wall art with a welder and some ingenuity... ;)

[wertyu78]

you could make some neat automotive wall art with a welder and some ingenuity... ;)

It would only be a reminder of $2,800 wasted! Granted, it would look pretty damn cool!

[wertyu78]

Pretty much a pile of junk....

Literally!

[slater]

It would only be a reminder of $2,800 wasted! Granted, it would look pretty damn cool!

hey, if you make it cool enough, you could maybe sell it for $2800. :)

[BMWCurves]

You just need an art critic to discuss how it speaks to the fractured nature of American consumerism and how industrializing, despite it's advances, can never shake the ultimate stress test: time.

That might help your sale price.

[Fenrir]

I forgot to post this earlier. View of the OSG taken apart after failure....

22842
This is just....... Wow....

Sent from a blue police box