Lowered cars (not necessarily E46): dry sump

[Hermes]

I live on many sites and see many different issues that exist with lowering your car. The most important (although not necessarily an E46 issue) is clearance for your oil pan.

The most common posting of this issue seems to be with the E30 guys as they have front pans. It is an issue as that is the last BMW that used that setup. You don't hear much from 02/E3/E9/E12 as there aren't as many of them.

I assume many of you have E30 longings, I do as well but I haven't found the right car to build yet. I would like to state my opinion even though it may not be agreed upon by most, but I know some of you will be on my side.

If your car is seriously low enough where clearance is an issue then your oil pan is extremely important to complete car health. A mere skid plate does not solve these issues, it just is an attempt to prevent bigger issues.

If you honestly wish to extend R.I.C.E. mods to your car, the most import one to deal with is dry sump lubrication. Coilovers, aero, widebody, adjustable toe, etc., are all nice but if your engine is dead then all your other mods are null and void.

http://cdn.nexternal.com/vacmotors/images/s65dSK_600.jpg

Yes, stance seems to be the thing right now. It didn't used to be to this extent. Lowering your car was always in the mix, but unless you were a lowrider you didn't 'lay frame' (as the phrase used to be). At least those guys use airbags or hydraulics to be able to clear obstacles.

Sorry, I'm old(er) and am getting quite annoyed by those who have issues with their lowered cars.

If you wish to have a car that low please think of all possible issues before dumping your car to the ground. Yes, it looks good. No, it's not worth all the new regular maintenance that is required because you didn't upgrade everything else to deal with your new ride height.

You have to pay to play...

Willing to listen to all your comments, but honestly it will be hard to convince me that race based modifications belong on street cars if you don't go all out on your mods.

[wertyu78]

I'm not a fan of slammed cars, but I thoroughly enjoy a properly "stanced" car; albeit being functionally low, or agressive looking.

This is stupid:

http://i45.tinypic.com/2akppw.jpg

However, this is nice:

http://stancewords.stanceworks.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/california-bmw-wagon-525i-530i.jpg


Personally speaking, I go for an aggressive look:

http://i60.tinypic.com/6on47p.jpg



To each their own. I will (with an open mind) appreciate other individuals hard work, but I agree with you JP, slammed is dumb.

[Hermes]

Wyatt - I totally agree. I appreciate others projects but sometimes I have issues with how the build was done. Full on 'stance' is something that has confused me since most of those who do this do not remedy all issues.

For example, my E21 is lowered but not stanced

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/jhermes/320i/280AA1E5-0EDD-4F7C-8EAA-2BDD48D58325.jpg

Stock wheel gap for reference

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/jhermes/320i/null-34.jpg

Just trying to point out for those who don't understand: if you want to go THAT low there at other issues to think of besides rubbing

[tkundhi]

JP, I agree that too many people head down the "upgrade" path without understanding the consequences. I like a lowered car. But in my opinion many are way too low.

I'm also old(er) and also try to keep an open mind. It is their car and they have the right to do want they want. My issue is when they profess their setup is the best and blindly suggest it to everyone.

For example, lowering a car will not automatically make it handle better. Sure a lower center of gravity helps but what about the spring rates, damping, total suspension travel. I've seen cars lowered that are riding on their bump stops. And the owners wonder why the handling sucks. They assume that lower is better and stiffer springs are better. But the setup has no suspension travel so nothing really works the way it is suppose too.

Overall I really try to keep an open mind. Each to his own. But some of the slammed cars with their stretched tires leave me scratching my head.

t.

[Hermes]

Thanks Tarun!

Yes everybody has the right to modify their car as they wish, just trying to preemptively make sure those who plan mods make sure everything is thought out.

You helped express what I wasn't able to. There are many other things to think about besides spring rates, valving, suspension angles.

I will freely admit that the suspensions we see in our cars were designed for daily drivability and not looks.

The point in trying to make is please think of ALL the possible other issues that may come into play when you decide to go that low with your car.

If you wish to go down the upgrade path please think of all the issues you may need to face.

[Fenrir]

Wow I didn't know that was an issue with the E30's. I Learn something new every time I log in lol.

[cakM3]

I'm not a fan of slammed cars, but I thoroughly enjoy a properly "stanced" car; albeit being functionally low, or agressive looking.

This is stupid:

http://i45.tinypic.com/2akppw.jpg

I agree Wyatt that this is stupid...well "not functional" from a performance perspective. From my point of view, this is more of an example of looks over function. Even though the owner chooses to do this and there may be others here who desire to dump their cars in this fashion, that does not mean you or I have to. :thumbsup


However, this is nice:

http://stancewords.stanceworks.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/california-bmw-wagon-525i-530i.jpg

I really love this look, especially on sedans. Lowered BMWs, not slammed, show presence and to me they look so sick :drool


To each their own. I will (with an open mind) appreciate other individuals hard work, but I agree with you JP, slammed is dumb.

I have to say Wyatt posted several good examples and Tarun completed it by posting below several good thoughtful points for discussion... well done guys! :thumbsup



JP, I agree that too many people head down the "upgrade" path without understanding the consequences. I like a lowered car. But in my opinion many are way too low.

I'm also old(er) and also try to keep an open mind. It is their car and they have the right to do want they want. My issue is when they profess their setup is the best and blindly suggest it to everyone.

For example, lowering a car will not automatically make it handle better. Sure a lower center of gravity helps but what about the spring rates, damping, total suspension travel. I've seen cars lowered that are riding on their bump stops. And the owners wonder why the handling sucks. They assume that lower is better and stiffer springs are better. But the setup has no suspension travel so nothing really works the way it is suppose too.

Overall I really try to keep an open mind. Each to his own. But some of the slammed cars with their stretched tires leave me scratching my head.

t.

I myself am not a fan of slammed/dumped cars but I do like the lowered ride look and feel. I get comments from people many times up here in New England how am I able to drive my cars on the roads we have up here.... I tell them I'm much more observant of the roads now that my cars are lowered and drive slower, especially when driving down the roads of Boston which I did this weekend...;) See my damaged Arqray lip... being low does have some disadvantages like hitting chunks of ice during winter driving.....all part of going low. I will be replacing my Arqray lip come spring (hear that Ray???)

Now my cars are set up like this...
http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/ZHP/_DSC6149_zps7d4bd142.jpg
http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/ZHP/_DSC6136_zps16c67e3c.jpg
http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/ZHP/_DSC6130_zps89bbacb7.jpg
http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3/ScreenShot2014-05-28at105329AM_zps3a8f9784.png
http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3/ICONZ%20Lip/_DSC6354_zps25896c3c.jpg
http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3/ICONZ%20Lip/_DSC6337_zpsef5c835c.jpg
http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3/ICONZ%20Lip/_DSC6319_zpse7fab3d0.jpg

I put these pictures up as an example of how low I have both of my cars set up. I realize this is not for everyone and that's okay. I didn't cut my springs to lower my car nor did I bend any suspension components to get this low. I upgraded my suspension so that I could set it up this way without compromising anything....

I have personally seen others who have "modified" their existing suspension components to get that "slammed look" then wonder why their rear subframes tore miserably, or why their suspension has so many issues. (smh)

As JP and others have eluded...there is a right way to set up your car if you want to go low. One forum member has airbag suspension and I'm quite confident that his suspension is set up perfectly because everything he has done has been done absolutely right. I think for those who want to modify their suspension I would recommend doing your research, ask people how they have their suspension set up and then decide which course you want to go. I know if I decided to track my cars, my suspension would be raised a little over it's current ride height. For now I'm going for looks without compromising way too much on performance. :thumbsup It's the fine balance between looks and performance that I'm going for with both cars :thumbsup

[Hornung418]

#FrameNotch

Sent from my GS3.

[derbo]

I live on many sites and see many different issues that exist with lowering your car. The most important (although not necessarily an E46 issue) is clearance for your oil pan.

The most common posting of this issue seems to be with the E30 guys as they have front pans. It is an issue as that is the last BMW that used that setup. You don't hear much from 02/E3/E9/E12 as there aren't as many of them.

I assume many of you have E30 longings, I do as well but I haven't found the right car to build yet. I would like to state my opinion even though it may not be agreed upon by most, but I know some of you will be on my side.

If your car is seriously low enough where clearance is an issue then your oil pan is extremely important to complete car health. A mere skid plate does not solve these issues, it just is an attempt to prevent bigger issues.

If you honestly wish to extend R.I.C.E. mods to your car, the most import one to deal with is dry sump lubrication. Coilovers, aero, widebody, adjustable toe, etc., are all nice but if your engine is dead then all your other mods are null and void.

http://cdn.nexternal.com/vacmotors/images/s65dSK_600.jpg[/IMG

Yes, stance seems to be the thing right now. It didn't used to be to this extent. Lowering your car was always in the mix, but unless you were a lowrider you didn't 'lay frame' (as the phrase used to be). At least those guys use airbags or hydraulics to be able to clear obstacles.

Sorry, I'm old(er) and am getting quite annoyed by those who have issues with their lowered cars.

If you wish to have a car that low please think of all possible issues before dumping your car to the ground. Yes, it looks good. No, it's not worth all the new regular maintenance that is required because you didn't upgrade everything else to deal with your new ride height.

You have to pay to play...

Willing to listen to all your comments, but honestly it will be hard to convince me that race based modifications belong on street cars if you don't go all out on your mods.

Race based modifications do not belong on street cars. I agree with you. A dry sump modification is definitely not necessary on a E46 but it's possible modification for an E30. JP, my gf's E30 has a skidplate but its not lowered dramatically. It's only installed because the M50 sits a little lower and we wouldn't want something on the freeway to destroy it. :)

I've started to raise my car last year cause I was running into too many rubbing issues and I'm tired of it. I don't care about wheel gap as much as I did when I was younger but I definitely still like less than an inch of wheel gap.





Personally speaking, I go for an aggressive look:

[IMG]http://i60.tinypic.com/6on47p.jpg



Kalim's car is :drool. He does rub due to the aggressive offset but he doesn't track it so it's whatever.

[Hermes]

#FrameNotch

Sent from my GS3.

Not cheap when done right

15575

Same point I'm trying to make. Please think everything out. It takes a lot of work to make a lowered car ride correctly

[M0nk3y]

Pay to play is definitely a good phrase to use.

People just need to realize what they're going through when they do things to their car.

For example...My car:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t31.0-8/10506805_10203042375448537_6149350815792030979_o.j pg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MRHaRyrIWSk/VBWqrRhYFlI/AAAAAAAFsZA/JWG6GZt63KE/s800/_B2_2717.jpg

It is pretty darn low. In fact, it is actually only 1 turn from completely bottoming out in the rear.

And when it is on stock wheels/tires, the wheels are tucked in...and it really looks stupid

https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10475222_10202735567258524_4763471439236376690_n.j pg?oh=5bda68f1b37e2285411e9744547b9eeb&oe=54C7CB93

But, I understand the risks involved with how low the car is. And I know what can happen with running wide wheels/tires (tearing up rear fender liners, rubbing wheels inside the paint on the front fenders).

I wish a dry sump conversion was legal in my class, because I view it more so of a preventive maintenance item rather than an upgrade.

[330i ZHP]

this issue has come home to my "fleet" - my daughter's MINI is showing signs of having scraped stuff with the oil pan and the front subframe. I am not going to look at dry sump options for her car but I will look for a skid plate (although I am aware if the plate is hit hard enough it can be pushed into the pan and still cause damage)

[az3579]

This isn't really a big issue with stock ride-height E30's, but this was definitely a concern when I had my E30. It was lowered, but it wasn't anything near aggressive; all it had were H&R Sport springs and Bilstein Sport shocks. There was still a good 1-1.5" of wheel gap. With the stock engine, it still wasn't an issue. Once I put the S50 in, having to use the E34 oil pan was painful because the darned thing sticks so low down towards the ground. The car itself wasn't any lower, but the oil pan stuck out like a sore thumb. I was careful, and have only scraped it a couple of times but then I learned how to avoid that.

A dry sump would've been very useful at that time, but... making $9/hr didn't help. lol
I didn't even know what a dry sump was back then. Learned as time goes on...

I'm glad the E46 doesn't have this issue as it is nerve racking to think about it!

[pilotnick1203]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/15/0be74e6a2c1642fb6e4b3574dfc9bf11.jpg
Agree with OP


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[derbo]

This isn't really a big issue with stock ride-height E30's, but this was definitely a concern when I had my E30. It was lowered, but it wasn't anything near aggressive; all it had were H&R Sport springs and Bilstein Sport shocks. There was still a good 1-1.5" of wheel gap. With the stock engine, it still wasn't an issue. Once I put the S50 in, having to use the E34 oil pan was painful because the darned thing sticks so low down towards the ground. The car itself wasn't any lower, but the oil pan stuck out like a sore thumb. I was careful, and have only scraped it a couple of times but then I learned how to avoid that.

A dry sump would've been very useful at that time, but... making $9/hr didn't help. lol
I didn't even know what a dry sump was back then. Learned as time goes on...

I'm glad the E46 doesn't have this issue as it is nerve racking to think about it!

Totally agree. My gfs e30 has an m50 with an e34 pan. Its also lowered on IE springs and bilstein sports. That damn oil on is mighty low even at a non aggressive lower stance.

sent from Moto X Dev Edition

[fantinno]

I was super stoked when I switched from a Mk4 GTI to an E46 to find how much easier it is to look nice and low.

For example:
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b593/fantinno/1F242017-DBAE-45A4-ACA1-AA81F3F9DA7A_zpssxefzxxl.jpg (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/fantinno/media/1F242017-DBAE-45A4-ACA1-AA81F3F9DA7A_zpssxefzxxl.jpg.html)

I still had wheel gap up front and only a little tuck in the rear, but I routinely scraped on my exhaust and oil pan. The rear wheel also moved forward the lower you went (thanks torsion beam suspension) and the front sway would always knock on the axles.

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b593/fantinno/2C244CAC-D2F3-4183-BDDE-EC17958ED895_zpsacwjlzeq.jpg (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/fantinno/media/2C244CAC-D2F3-4183-BDDE-EC17958ED895_zpsacwjlzeq.jpg.html)

Just H&R race springs on the ZHP and I tuck both wheels, and the rear sits nice and low. Handling is still great too and doesn't suffer from the reduction in driveability I experienced in the VW.

I'm anticipating the 2002 will be a little more challenging to go low in...

[derbo]

I'm happy we have a lot better ground clearance compared to older 80s cars. I remember old Hondas also have terrible grpun clearance and could see saw on speed bumps with a drop yo remove fender gap

sent from Moto X Dev Edition

[webster]

I think every car pictured in this thread (minus jp's e21) looks 'slammed' and frankly pretty silly. Just my 2 cents. No offense meant.

[Johal E32]

I think every car pictured in this thread (minus jp's e21) looks 'slammed' and frankly pretty silly. Just my 2 cents. No offense meant.

This, no offense meant. I think the 128i is pretty reasonable. Along with post #16 (my car is about that low).

[Hermes]

I'm anticipating the 2002 will be a little more challenging to go low in...

Depends on how slammed you want to get, this is lowering springs and Bilstein's:

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/jhermes/2002/IMG_3485.jpg

If you want to get really low you need coilovers or airbags, but I honestly would not want to drive an 02 on coilovers as a street car. Honestly, the setup on the car is a bit harsh at the moment with the IE linear race springs so I'll have to look into street progressive springs, I think H&R makes some

[Santacruzslick]

My car is really damn low. I have to go over speed bumps sideways and constantly hear my tires rubbing through the plastic fender liners. I just don't care because I think it looks damn good and get compliments on it daily. Could I ever track the car like this? Hell no, thankfully I can raise it up if need be. haha

15591

[Avetiso]

My car is really damn low. I have to go over speed bumps sideways and constantly hear my tires rubbing through the plastic fender liners. I just don't care because I think it looks damn good and get compliments on it daily. Could I ever track the car like this? Hell no, thankfully I can raise it up if need be. haha

15591
I'm sorry, but that is hot. :drool

[Santacruzslick]

Why thank you! It does have some disadvantages though...like florida summer storms dumping lakes into the streets.

15592

[OtterEffect]

Why thank you! It does have some disadvantages though...like florida summer storms dumping lakes into the streets.

15592

Whoa! That is insane!

[Santacruzslick]

Yea...and that was the high ground. We all moved our cars as close to the buildings as possible. The street had a good foot and a half of water. I'm not gonna miss summer at all when these daily storms go away.

[Hermes]

I can't believe I went a whole day without seeing one of these posts...

15624

[pilotnick1203]

#stancenation http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/17/5205228a84aea8e33f940bbf06878576.jpg
And yes, that's a Prius


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ZHP Dave]

That poor S2000 doesn't deserve to be left out in the rain.

[Whammy]

My car is really damn low. I have to go over speed bumps sideways and constantly hear my tires rubbing through the plastic fender liners. I just don't care because I think it looks damn good and get compliments on it daily. Could I ever track the car like this? Hell no, thankfully I can raise it up if need be. haha

15591

Nice setup! I can't go that low, but can appreciate it as my 1st E46 was almost that low on PSS coilovers. With the ZHP I went the cupkit route. I like this better.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/duraznostj/E46/IMG_20140421_154717_zps4bdbd384.jpg