High Performance Driving School - VIR October 11th & 12th, 2014

[brettbimmer]

Greetings All:

I just wanted to post this up and see if anyone else was considering or had interest in attending a high performance driving school this fall. I am looking very seriously at heading back to VIR - (Virginia International Raceway) over Columbus Day weekend with the Tarheel BMWCCA driving school here:

http://www.tarheelbmwcca.org/track.html

This is a two-day school, and you should end up with 4 or 5 sessions per day on the track which is roughly two hours of driving time on track each day. They are a lot of fun and educational too. While not cheap events ($435 for the two day weekend), these are really great opportunities to learn proper high performance driving techniques in a pretty safe environment on a race track. All students usually run with an instructor which is really helpful in improving your driving abilities and knowledge of the track.

Full course track map:
15391

A few other links in case you need them:

VIR: http://virnow.com/

This track does have several lodging options available at the track, or the nearest area for hotels would be Danville, VA.

Normal auto insurance will generally not cover you on the track, so this is a company that allows you to purchase a policy for a declared value for use on the track over the weekend:

http://locktonmotorsports.com/product/track-insurance

Questions, comments, complaints? Let me know! It would be fun to have a few ZHPs or other Mafia members join in on the fun.

[ELCID86]

Argh. I'm going to be out of town that weekend. Hope it's a blast.


Thumbs, iPhone, Tapatalk.

[Audi 0000]

I am not sure if I can swing it yet, but I would like to go. Let me know if you are definitely going to sign up. VIR is awesome!

[brettbimmer]

Thanks Shawn. Hopefully you can join in another time.

Certainly will Bobby. VIR is such a wonderful track and lots of fun for HPDE events.

Sent from my pineapple under the sea.

[Asiah119]

I'll be there. It will be my third DE at VIR with that group.

[brettbimmer]

Excellent. Great to hear!

Sent from my pineapple under the sea.

[mbeckel]

I am not sure if I can swing it yet, but I would like to go. Let me know if you are definitely going to sign up. VIR is awesome!
you don't really even need to ride with an instructor anymore. Not with all your track time

[Asiah119]

you don't really even need to ride with an instructor anymore. Not with all your track time

Yeah, if you get an instructor that likes you, and you have a lot of track time there are good chances they'll sign you off after a couple of sessions. I think the rule now is that the instructor has to ride with you for at least the first session of each day. TarheelCCA also has a thing where for what they're calling a+ students who can come up on that Friday and its more or less open track all day.

[Don Adolfo]

Sounds like fun. Maybe some other weekend; I am running the Army 10-miler that Sunday. Enjoy.

[Asiah119]

Brett, did you decide to pull the trigger on this?

[brettbimmer]

Brett, did you decide to pull the trigger on this?

Bahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!! I was really, REALLY looking forward to making this event, but due to a downturn in business and income (going on for several months now) I really couldn't justify the total expense for me at the present time when I factored in all of the costs involved. :crying:crying:crying Ray (Brake Yourself) even gave me a great price on a new helmet, but I have had to hold off for the time being. Hopefully next year I will be able to go. In the meantime, I will have to live vicariously. Have an awesome time at the track!

[Asiah119]

I'll try to actually get my track recorder working this time. In the Spring, Torque was insisting on saving to my phone, not the sd card so I ran out of room. I'll pass an M3 for you.

Also just to make it a bit worse, there's going to be a new m4 and m235 there.

[brettbimmer]

Haha, sounds great. Have a great time and I'll look forward to some additional track footage! Call me crazy but F80 M3 moves me far more then the M4. M235 on the other hand...

Sent from my pineapple under the sea.

[Asiah119]

I can't say that the weather was the greatest. But it was still a good weekend. The track was never completely dry, but on the first day there was a dry line occasionally. I got some good work in on how to get the car to move better through a few corners and got more comfortable with my braking zones.

The actual bad things from the weekend all occurred outside of my run group (d). There were a couple of incidents with offs in other groups. The weather on Saturday was mostly just cloudy but several waves of rain came through; today was more of a constant light rain that would periodically get heavier.

The good though... oh the good. Traffic in my run group was great. There weren't many bottlenecks. Passing went well. General good times. I started strong. was hitting my marks. Was smooth (for my experience level). And what I consider one of the bigger accomplishments: I was much more comfortable with getting up on the curbs. Also a great feeling was that on a couple of laps (aided by the damp pavement) the car did the natural trackout that is supposed to happen on turn 10\southbend. I'm also getting a lot more comfortable with keeping speed through the climbing esses.

I still need to work on carrying more speed coming out of the back straight into 14 and 14a\roller coaster. Also carrying enough speed for the car to track out a bit more in 17 and 17a\hogpen.

The interesting\unexpected was that my front tires held up fairly well despite being a higher treadwear rating. The unexpected though and probably just because I didnt have enough pressure in the tire, I obliterated the wear triangles on my LF and put a serious hurt on the RF.

One of the things that my instructor suggested was to put spacers on the front to offset some of the effects of the staggered setup. Anyone have thoughts on that?

Also, I need a different seat. Bad. really bad. Like before the Spring event.

And. Either I'm just not going as deep into my brakes as I think I am, or he stoptech street perf pads that I have are reaching their limit. I'll go heavy on the brakes and no abs, push more, no abs, push more no abs. When I come out of the braking zones for the straights I can smell the pads pretty strongly. I wouldn't think that my rubber brake lines would be the culprit here. Once or twice braking on the front straight I got a little blip of the ABS but I was also running over some damp patches. I was thinking of sucking up my time and picking up a set of rotors and pads just for track use and swapping before events. Maybe something like the Hawk DT70s or HT10s. Or maybe the HP plus will get me what I want.

[tkundhi]

Asiah119, VIR is a great track. I hope to get back there again in the future. Please take the following as constructive feedback. That's my intent.

1. Spacers will help a little as it will increase track width. But frankly I don't think it is worth it. You still have a lot more tire in the rear. 30mm if you are running a stock setup. If you enjoyed the weekend and want to do more, spend all your available funds on track time not upgrades.

2. I don't understand why you think you are reaching the limit of your pads? Are you having difficult stopping? Is there brake fade? Or just the smell? Yes, your brakes will smell, you are using them. ABS? Yep you will get that when it is wet. I'm guessing if you were really ready for track pads your instructor would have suggested that to you. Typically speaking students don't need track pads until they are solid intermediate or upper intermediate drivers. Going to a more aggressive pad will slow the development of proper braking technique. If you feel you need to upgrade go with the HP Plus setup.

Unless your brake lines are cracked, worn or deteriorating there is no need to change them.

Hawk makes great track pads. I use HT10s and DTC60s. I don't swap rotors.

3. What tire are you running? What were the tire pressures. I suspect the tread wear you describe is too much entry speed combined with aggressive turn in causing understeer. I say this because of your comments about car placement on corner exit.

4. Typically it considered bad form to discuss track incidents on public forums. This is out of respect for those involved and unless you were involved you don't know 100% of the facts.

Overall it sounds like you enjoyed the weekend. Spend your money on more track time. You'll have fun and your driving will improve. Then proceed with the upgrades.

t.

[Asiah119]

1. I was shady on spacers actually giving me that much of an improvement.


2. I'm not sure if I'm just getting some fade or what. The symptom is that coming into any of the hard braking zones I'll come on to my brakes push push push, get to where they're really biting, push more no more bite, push more no more bite, push more no more bite. I don't know if its just a misconception on my part that my brakes should be able to overcome the traction potential of my tires. The SS lines are something I'm thinking of as a preventive measure and to hopefully get a bit better pedal feel.

I was thinking of swapping rotors too because the guy who got me into DEs said that he didn't get a good seat when he would only swap pads. I've also heard it from several other people.

3. I'll look up what my fronts are later today. I want to say I'm RE040 on the back and fronts are RE760 sports. I've encoded the video that I took last night and will pop it on to youtube tonight and post for critiques.


I did have fun. I've yet to have a bad time. I felt a lot more smooth than I did in previous events. Much more confident going into corners. I was watching the video that I took and saw that I'm down to only dropping a few mph coming up through the uphill esses which is a great improvment over the ~10 that I used to drop. The rain was a great tool for learning how the car will move around in corners.

[mko9]

Also, I need a different seat. Bad. really bad. Like before the Spring event.

As an interim solultion, you might try a cglock. It attaches to the belt and allows you to tighten the belt down, and not loosen back up. That is all I use with my stock ZHP seat, which are the cloth and alcantera, so a little more grippy than leather.



Hawk makes great track pads. I use HT10s and DTC60s. I don't swap rotors.

I personally found the HT10s to wear really fast - like 2 or 3 days and they were done. The HTC60s seem to have every bit as much stopping power and last much longer. I don't change my rotors, either.

[tkundhi]

I personally found the HT10s to wear really fast - like 2 or 3 days and they were done. The HTC60s seem to have every bit as much stopping power and last much longer. I don't change my rotors, either.

mko9, something's not right. I get 18-20 days on a set of HT10s as do most of the other guys I know using this pad on a similar car. Typically, HT10s wear fast when they aren't getting up to the proper operating temperature. Do you have extra brake ducts or some other mods?

t.

[mko9]

mko9, something's not right. I get 18-20 days on a set of HT10s as do most of the other guys I know using this pad on a similar car. Typically, HT10s wear fast when they aren't getting up to the proper operating temperature. Do you have extra brake ducts or some other mods?

t.

My HT10 experience was not in my e46, it was a Mitsubishi Eclipse GT. If anything, that car's brakes got too hot. Until I went to bigger rotors I routinely overheated the brakes on that car on trackdays. But that was my experience - 2 days at VIR and a day at Summit Point Shenandoah.