Help out a car audio noob

[ryankokesh]

So as the title states, I know very little about car audio equipment. I do, however, know enough to not feel like my hk system is quite adequate. I'm not looking for pounding bass; I just want it to be a little crisper, and to not feel like the speakers might blow at any moment if I don't turn the radio down.

So, here's what I'm working with: basically I want to swap out at least the tweeters and lows in the front, and probably also the mids in the front and lows on the back shelf. I also want to do this myself, and for as little money as possible. (I really like the BSW approach, but it's more than I'd like to spend at the moment)

That said, I came across a fellow's site detailing his own speaker system upgrade, which seems very comparable to what I'd like to achieve.

Link --> JumboPrawn.com (http://jumboprawn.net/jesse/projs/bmw_e46_audio.htm)

I'm starting to look at individual components at Parts Express, but I'm having problems finding tweeters that are shallow enough to fit.

Does anyone have any thoughts or advice for me? I'm kind of going a little beyond my comfort zone here, and could use some reassurance about buying the correct stuff.

thanks in advance!

[mimalmo]

The challenge with modifying our audio systems by swapping out tweeters, midranges, bass drivers, etc is that what you buy may not have the correct impedence, frequency response or voicing to match the rest of the system. The HK system uses proprietary EQ curves that are designed to work with the OEM amp and speakers.

BSW is a nice plug and play system but if you don't want that, plan on swapping out most of the system (all speakers and amp) just to get it to work.

[ryankokesh]

Could I not just buy components that have the same properties? (I honestly don't know if that's an option...not trying to be an a$$)

[mimalmo]

You could try but unless you know what you're buying, the end results would probably be disappointing.

If it was me, I'd keep the OEM deck, buy 1 or two quality amplifiers and a couple good quality separates (separate midrange & tweeter with a crossover) for the front and rear speakers along with 1-2 subwoofers.

[ryankokesh]

Yeah, I definitely don't want to lose the oem deck.

[Nivo]

I believe the OEM speakers are like 2 ohm, subs are 3 ohm. as long as you wire up to the wires on the doors and not use the passive crossovers that come with the components you are fine. The amp will work from 2ohm loads to 8 ohm loads. The amp has the internal crossover tuned to the HK speakers. Also as you dial up the volume the system decreases the lower frequencies to keep your speakers happy.

I am going to replace my whole HK system and that will be shown on my site.

[Jon D]

Disclaimer.. I swapped out my whole system including deck to get the sound I wanted.

With that said if my objective was to keep the factory deck and get the best sound without a lot of custom work I'd go BSW and not look back. It is a real step up from factory but not to what you can do if you rip it all out and start over. But then you loose the factory radio. Your call.

[Oli77]

This thread (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1600605&highlight=ohm) is pretty informative. But basically, if you find speakers that are the right size (fit and line up), the right impedance, and a close match on the frequencies they can handle, you'll be alright.

[Oli77]

I thought the audax at this site (https://www.madisound.com/store/index.php?cPath=45_245_313) would be small enough to fit.

Isn't that what the jumboprawn link guy says in there?

[iZHP]

are your speakers shot? By adding a subwoofer/amp, it takes away the bass frequencies from the speakers and redirects to the subs. I know mine sounded way better after adding subs.

[jvr826]

I retained my factory head and bypassed the h/k amp completely, then wired in a pair of components up front and a 12" sub in the trunk. No rear fill channels for me.

To achieve good midbass up front I had to fashion a baffle and cut out the door shell behind the mid-bass driver. The speakers I purchased thrive on airspace, so I had to do a lot of work to provide that. Once I did though, ooh baby, gobs of midbass up front and excellent blend with the sub in the trunk. Read this paragraph as... you cannot just bolt in a high-end set of speakers using factory mounting method and get awesome results. How the h/k gets as much bass as it does up front is still a mystery to me. I think they play serious EQ tricks to do it.

I have yet to fully tune the system as I'm still undecided about tweeter position in my coupe. I have them currently in the sail panel behind the side-view mirrors, but will work on an a-pillar solution to try out next. That will raise the soundstage up and forward. The stock location on the coupe is terrible... soundstage is between your chest and the dashboard. Weaksauce!

The tutorial you posted originally is a good way to go for a budget improvement. I have read good things about BSW and every debate that gets started evolves into a "yeah, but we did all the research and development!" to explain the big price tag. I have never heard a car with that solution in it though. When I was originally researching an upgrade I was turned off by them because back then they were just rebranding MB Quart and I was not a fan of that brand at all.

I had a/d/s/ in my E39 that I transferred into this car and it never quite did the trick for me in the E46. I suspect it was part install and part tired components as I had owned them for 10 years and they were in 3 different cars. I went with Hybrid Audio Clarus components and an IDQ sub - very happy with these choices now that I've worked out the install. I think you get more out of the install than the components you select cuz an expensive driver poorly installed will sound bad too.

[mimalmo]

Sounds like you did it correctly.

[jvr826]

I could do a clean version of my thread at Fanatics if people are interested...

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=744817

I'm also on DIYMA with similar thread. It was a journey and I learned a bit more in the process.

[mimalmo]

Excellent job Jeff. Even if the OP doesn't go to the extent you did, I agree that the best way to get improved sound out of the E46 while retaining factory look is to keep the OEM head unit but replace everything else. Forget about using the OEM amplifier or speakers.

[ryankokesh]

I believe the OEM speakers are like 2 ohm, subs are 3 ohm. as long as you wire up to the wires on the doors and not use the passive crossovers that come with the components you are fine. The amp will work from 2ohm loads to 8 ohm loads. The amp has the internal crossover tuned to the HK speakers. Also as you dial up the volume the system decreases the lower frequencies to keep your speakers happy.

I am going to replace my whole HK system and that will be shown on my site.

That's kinda what I figured... can't wait to see how your install goes though!



Disclaimer.. I swapped out my whole system including deck to get the sound I wanted.

With that said if my objective was to keep the factory deck and get the best sound without a lot of custom work I'd go BSW and not look back. It is a real step up from factory but not to what you can do if you rip it all out and start over. But then you loose the factory radio. Your call.

Yeah, I'd love to go with BSW, but it's more than I'm willing to spend on an upgrade at the moment. :/



This thread (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1600605&highlight=ohm) is pretty informative. But basically, if you find speakers that are the right size (fit and line up), the right impedance, and a close match on the frequencies they can handle, you'll be alright.

Thanks for the link - that's a very helpful thread!



I thought the audax at this site (https://www.madisound.com/store/index.php?cPath=45_245_313) would be small enough to fit.

Isn't that what the jumboprawn link guy says in there?

Thanks again for the link! I couldn't find those audax's anywhere!



are your speakers shot? By adding a subwoofer/amp, it takes away the bass frequencies from the speakers and redirects to the subs. I know mine sounded way better after adding subs.

Kind of... well, they're at least sounding worse and worse. Not completely shot yet though. I was considering adding subs, but I really use all the room in my trunk sometimes. Especially in the summer with my golf clubs, which don't fit incredibly well as it is.


Jeff- Wow that's an incredibly awesome install! I'm not very confident that I could actually do something of that magnitude though :)

[ryankokesh]

So I think I may get this stuff to start off with and see how it goes:

Tweeter (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=275-025&FTR=ND16FA-6)
Midbass (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-372&FTR=RS150-4)

I'm not really sure either of them will fit correctly, or that it'll be too big of an improvement. I think I'm going to leave the midrange as it is, and hopefully it'll at least get me to a point of adequateness that I can stand :) Not really aiming for the super awesome stuff - just mediocrity!

Does anyone know for sure if these will fit or not?

Is this really me just wasting time/money?

Thanks for everyone's help and input so far!

[Oli77]

Ryan, the impedance on these two speakers is wrong.

Both must be 8 ohms. I'm looking ...

[Go Horns!]

So I think I may get this stuff to start off with and see how it goes:

Tweeter
Midbass

I'm not really sure either of them will fit correctly, or that it'll be too big of an improvement. I think I'm going to leave the midrange as it is, and hopefully it'll at least get me to a point of adequateness that I can stand Not really aiming for the super awesome stuff - just mediocrity!

Does anyone know for sure if these will fit or not?

Did you see this comment on the midbass:


I used these drivers along with a TB W2-803SM driver and a Dayton ND16FA-6 tweet to upgrade my factory HK stereo in me BMW 330 cic. It took a little engineering to get everything to fit, but WOW!!! There is no comparison to the HK system. I don't think I had ever realized the The Eagles "Witchy Woman" had RAVEN hair!!! Buy these! You will not be dissapointed.

Sounds like you can make them fit if you want to.

[Oli77]

These are 8 ohms, not sure about fit, could work with some engineering.
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=45_229_324&products_id=541 (https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=45_229_324&products_id=541https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=45_229_324&products_id=541)

The Tweeters that Go Horns is taking about are 6 ohms. Will probably be OK as tweeters don't suck much power, they may be little louder than the originals.


There is difference in price too I just realized.

[Oli77]

Look here:

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/GT-9627/8-OHM-TWEETER/1.html

Fitment looks right too!

[ryankokesh]

Thanks so much for all the input and suggestions, Oli et al!

I think the tweeter and midbass should be 3 ohms for the h/k system, right? That would still mean I'm pretty off on both of them though, lol...

back to the drawing board I go...

[Oli77]

:facepalm

Sorry Ryan totally missed that in your original post.

Yep, needs 3 ohm for tweeter, 4 ohm for midrange.

If you do find some of these on the sites provided, let us know. It would be nice for people to know of alternative replacements sites that are cheaper than BSW.

[ryankokesh]

Will do - thanks again for all your help!

[quikryptonite]

Does anyone have some more input on this subject after a few years have passed. My tweeters and mid range speakers are starting to die. I have the stock HK system and would like something that is easy to install and sounds really nice.

I'm on the fence with the BavSound stage one kit. Anyone have some input they'd like to share?

[johnrando]

Same as I tell everyone.... you get more bang for the buck going your own route. But, for the ease of plug and play it provides, it was worth it to me. Overall sound improvement. Add a subwoofer and then it cranks. By itself w/o the sub it's an improvement, but not stellar. I installed it myself and I know nothing about sound nor wiring.

[quikryptonite]

I think at this point, that's what I'll do. Then upgrade the sub later.

John, did you get the sound deadening material? I have all the tools I need that are included in their toolkit minus the picks. But I can get those at Harbor Freight for a couple of bucks.

Thanks.

[johnrando]

I did not get the sound material, did not feel the need, and there has been no issue. And yes, HF is a good place to get the picks.

[ELCID86]

See this thread? "Anyone have stock HK Speaker Upgrade options and reviews for sedan?"

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=14392&share_tid=19883&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ezhpmafia%2Ecom%2Fforums%2Fs howthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D19883&share_type=t


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"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - anonymous E46 fanatic

[quikryptonite]

See this thread? "Anyone have stock HK Speaker Upgrade options and reviews for sedan?"

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=14392&share_tid=19883&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ezhpmafia%2Ecom%2Fforums%2Fs howthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D19883&share_type=t


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - anonymous E46 fanatic

I did about five minutes after I posted in this thread. :facepalm

[Bludsport]

Check out: https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

[Tunes]

You will find that just adding tweeters will prove difficult to get you the sound you are looking for. Operating frequency and effency are hard to match with your OEM mid. I have modified a lot of systems using the OEM radio, and I would recommend you add a 4 channel amp to run your OEM speakers and add a sub with a small sub amp.

If you desire that you don't have to keep the factory radio you could do a double din with Car Play/ Android Auto feature. This alone will give you a substantial improvement in sound quality as most (I have a Kenwood) have time alignment and an equalizer to actor the sound to your liking.

Don't be afraid to visit quality area dealer, you can't hear products from an online site.