DME Update for the BMW E46 330 ZHP

[adb1028]

From what I've read, there is a DME update provided by BMW to address the 4k power dip along with other problems the original ZHP tune had. My question is, is there still a ZHP "specific" software update? When I go to my indy for the update, will he know there is specific update for Performance Package 330's? Has BMW labeled a separate tune from the regular 330's for the latest updates, or is there now a generic one?

Sorry if my question is a little confusing, I was having a tough time trying to phrase it LOL



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[danewilson77]

Great question. Could call a service adviser tomorrow....

[iZHP]

that's what i was wondering; if there was any kind of software update...

[mimalmo]

There has to be. The different cams, the higher redline, VANOS....

[danewilson77]

+1.....it would have to be differentiated between ZHP and regular 330....imho.

[iZHP]

I found this: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90586 but that only applies if you have the older version. Maybe they only updated it once or twice, and stopped supporting it?

[adb1028]

I would think there is, but there is almost no information out there on it. Maybe ^^^ is right, they could have done a few updates then stopped supporting it, which would make sense. I couldnt see BMW engineers spending time and money to work on the software of an 8 year old car that they made little of.



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[johnrando]

OR, with later versions of the car, the software was updated, so no new updates necessary? How would we find that out? VERY interested to hear the results of this thread. John

[RITmusic2k]

I'm sure that's the case; the car never changes, so once all the kinks are worked out there's nothing new to do. It's still on my list to get done... I'm one of those who suffers from the stuttering accel at 2.8k rpm. My idle drops from time to time but hasn't completely stalled on me yet.

[Rovert]

Are you guys' dip actually recordable? Like if you had a camera aimed at the RPMs you'd see it pause for a slight moment?

[mimalmo]

Mine's been fixed for a couple years now Trevor but what I recall was seeing the tach needle doing a slight hesitation around 4k but definitely feeling it on the "butt dyno".

[Rovert]

Hmmm I never felt that. I did get my DME updated quite often as my best friend was a BMW tech. We'd bring the car in and update it all the time! One perk of knowing someone like that.

[mimalmo]

Full acceleration in first gear, full again in second gear. When it sweeps to the 4k range you'll feel the lag (unless yours has been fixed).

[RITmusic2k]

Are you guys' dip actually recordable? Like if you had a camera aimed at the RPMs you'd see it pause for a slight moment?

Yep; not only that, it's audible... it sounds and feels like I'm pumping the gas pedal as I sweep through 2800 - 3000.

If I may represent it textually/onomatopoeically, sweeping through third gear sounds like this:

BWAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrRRRrrRRrrRRrrrRRRrrr RRRRRRRRRRRRRR

.............................(2800rpms)^

[Rovert]

OK someone take a decent video of this! I want to see/hear this for myself. My car's never felt like this ever since I bought it when it was 2 years old.

[RITmusic2k]

Will do. I have my CruiseCam mount in the trunk. Will hit it up on the way home from work tonight.

[Rovert]

Yay for driving vids! Don't do anything your mom wouldn't do on the road. Please make sure you are a professional driver on a closed circuit course. Thank you.

[MasterC17]

I've never felt a hesitation or dip at either 2800 or 4000, however the car did stall on me a few times as I was about to go from a stop (not because I messed up). It's like it would just lose power as I began to release the clutch. Odd.

[Rovert]

When I first got my car is stalled a few times at redlights. I brought it in and BMW changed the DISA and everything was ok after that. Have never had a stall every since that was done years ago. The only stalls that have happened now are when I'm tired and not thinking how smooth I need to be with that left foot and make a fool out of myself at a redlight. I always forget I need to launch at 4000 instead of 400. LOL

[RITmusic2k]

Yay for driving vids! Don't do anything your mom wouldn't do on the road. Please make sure you are a professional driver on a closed circuit course. Thank you.

Of course I couldn't get it to happen when I tried last night. Clearly the solution to this problem is to always have a video camera mounted in the car in order to prove I have a problem... and I'll never have it again.


Getting the sound recorded might be a little tricky also - with windows or sunroof down it's too buffety in the cabin, and with the cabin sealed, well... the car's pretty quiet. I'll give it a shot again today, though.

[Rovert]

LOL isn't that always the case. If only you can mount the mic in the engine bay or trunk/exhaust to hear it better.

[kaboom]

I can put it on the dyno and tell you if there is anything that happens at 4k next week.

Er, next week I can put it on the dyno and tell you if anything happens at 4k haha.

I'll monitor ignition timing and wideband to see if any funny business happens.

Ian

[Rovert]

I can guarantee your dyno readings will show it. But do you actually feel it in real life driving?

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8872/dynodynamicspowerchipru.jpg

You can see my RWHP figures climb and there's just a tiny burp at 3500. The graph blocks the torque which spikes at about 245ft-lbs but starts a dive to 20ft-lbs less which is only an 10% drop for a split second so in real time driving on my car I don't feel anything. It's weird how torque falls as RPMs rise but I guess torque is best felt at the low end where it's important since torque is how hard you can twist. Horsepower rises as RPM's rise which is good in the high end since HP means how fast your can twist.

[mimalmo]

As was mentioned before, it felt like a momentary lift in the throttle and then it was back on. So yes, it can be felt in everyday driving.

[kaboom]

Wow that's really strange. Horsepower is just a calculation of torque, so holding torque at high RPM is what makes horsepower...

The fact that the torque is dropping off at high RPM is just a function of the VE of the motor. If you made that same 245 ft/lbs but at 6000rpm you'd be making 279 horsepower! And if you made that 245 ft/lbs at 8000rpm you'd make 373 horsepower.

Ian

[RITmusic2k]

It makes sense from a practical standpoint. It's easy to push against something moving slowly, and past a certain sweet spot it becomes increasingly harder to push against something moving quickly. Imagine riding a bike. You can apply a lot of force to the pedals when they're turning slowly... but if you're going as fast as you can in that gear, the pedals are almost falling away from your foot as quickly as you can try to push against them, which results in you only being able to impart a fraction of the force upon them. Most of your available energy at that point is spent just keeping your legs moving that fast.

[kaboom]

That's pretty much exactly it, Kevin. An engine with a great head/cam package will breath well enough to fill the cylinders even at a high piston speed; just like if at a high pedal speed, you had more power available to push. Not more total torque, but torque at high rpm = horsepower = speed.

Ian

[MtnBikeKeef]

I have a 2006 330Ci ZHP with manual transmission and I have the flat spot/hesitation at just past 4000 RPM. It is very noticeable going from 2nd to 3rd. I read in this months Bimmer (E46 Buyers Guide) about it and have been researching it more. In the article it says the ECU needs to go to New Jersey for programming. The car is still covered under the CPO warranty. I went to Roseville (CA) BMW and spoke to the shop foreman. He found the service bulletin on it and confirmed it is a known issue. He also indicated that the ECU would have to go to New Jersey to be reprogrammed But he and the service tech told me that my CPO warranty did not cover it. I find this ludicrous. Niello BMW in Sacramento told me it is not covered by the CPO either. I read all of my CPO paperwork and I don't see how they can deny me. If anyone has more info or suggestions it would be appreciated.

[danewilson77]

I have a 2006 330Ci ZHP with manual transmission and I have the flat spot/hesitation at just past 4000 RPM. It is very noticeable going from 2nd to 3rd. I read in this months Bimmer (E46 Buyers Guide) about it and have been researching it more. In the article it says the ECU needs to go to New Jersey for programming. The car is still covered under the CPO warranty. I went to Roseville (CA) BMW and spoke to the shop foreman. He found the service bulletin on it and confirmed it is a known issue. He also indicated that the ECU would have to go to New Jersey to be reprogrammed But he and the service tech told me that my CPO warranty did not cover it. I find this ludicrous. Niello BMW in Sacramento told me it is not covered by the CPO either. I read all of my CPO paperwork and I don't see how they can deny me. If anyone has more info or suggestions it would be appreciated.

What part in the contract do you think covers it? I agree with you as well.....

We have a huge thread somewhere that discusses "this" hesitation...

[mimalmo]

Ask for a "goodwill repair". Your car is an 06 so it can't be that far out of the manufacturers warranty.

[MtnBikeKeef]

The way I read the CPO Warranty, it excludes wear and tear items. This is obviously not wear and tear. It affects the driveability of the car. I paid a premium for the ZHP Package, and it seems crazy that BMW would not want a satisfied customer over a pretty simple fix. I will try the "Goodwill Repair" angle, but the problem is that I am not a very good customer to the local dealerships. I don't buy new cars and I either do my own service or pay an independent to do it.

[danewilson77]

The way I read the CPO Warranty, it excludes wear and tear items. This is obviously not wear and tear. It affects the driveability of the car. I paid a premium for the ZHP Package, and it seems crazy that BMW would not want a satisfied customer over a pretty simple fix. I will try the "Goodwill Repair" angle, but the problem is that I am not a very good customer to the local dealerships. I don't buy new cars and I either do my own service or pay an independent to do it.

Understood.

[derbo]

I got the dme update and I can tell you that the disa valve seems to stay open after the update. My guess is that the disa valve was left open to eliminate the feel of the dip. 4 zhps at work and two has the dme update. The two with the dme update have disa valves that no longer move the valve. The non updated ones still have the disa valve close on start up.

[danewilson77]

Mmm...interesting about the DISA. I know it opens at 3750 rpm. I wonder if the engineers found an issue with opening rate (lag) > rpm dip?

[Mtnman]

Thats interesting. I dont have the update, but i have unplugged my DISA and driven, and still have the hesitation in a big way. I thought it was due to CAMshaft position sensor? I dont know.

[danewilson77]

Thats interesting. I dont have the update, but i have unplugged my DISA and driven, and still have the hesitation in a big way. I thought it was due to CAMshaft position sensor? I dont know.

When you unplug it, it's shut though.

[Mtnman]

Na, Dane, its naturally open...(cant believe i got one on ya!)

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/image/engine/11617544805_DISA_adjusting_unit_for_intake_manifol d_3.0_liter_engine_E46_e39_BMW_OEM_PART_wp.jpg

[danewilson77]

No sheet. Yeah...maybe I rememberz that....hehe. Good backup.

[zj96sc]

I had heard from another BMW guy years ago that the 4k power dip was the knock sensor misinterpreting the sound of the DISA valve opening/fluttering/hesitating as knock and slightly retarding timing to eliminate. Not sure if this is correct and I hate posting misinformation, but just offering what I heard.

[MrMaico]

The way I read the CPO Warranty, it excludes wear and tear items. This is obviously not wear and tear. It affects the driveability of the car. I paid a premium for the ZHP Package, and it seems crazy that BMW would not want a satisfied customer over a pretty simple fix. I will try the "Goodwill Repair" angle, but the problem is that I am not a very good customer to the local dealerships. I don't buy new cars and I either do my own service or pay an independent to do it.

If a goodwill repair doesn't work I would try calling BMWNA headquarters. There should be an 800 number somewhere, might even be in our owners manuals.


I got the dme update and I can tell you that the disa valve seems to stay open after the update. My guess is that the disa valve was left open to eliminate the feel of the dip. 4 zhps at work and two has the dme update. The two with the dme update have disa valves that no longer move the valve. The non updated ones still have the disa valve close on start up.

Interesting, that's the first I've ever heard of that.

There are some people now claiming they can do this 4000 power dip update with one of the available software packages that are floating around the web these days. I have to wonder though why any BMW dealer can't do it then? It makes me wonder if there isn't possibly some hardware change involved with the fix. Dealers can do all other updates, just not this one. It would be nice if it were true but I still have my doubts about whether this can be done by anyone with the right software. Some people say that the Shark Injector cured their 4000 rpm dip.

I had my 2800 rpm miss under acceleration fixed with an update to the latest software version but I still have a bit of hesitation passing through 4000 rpm.

Barry

[rikdee]

It seems there may never be final closure on the 4k issue. Mine is a late build '05, has the improved DISA (PN 11 61 7 544 805), and [I presume] any DME fix [perhaps] factory-applied to the later models. The TSB addressing this issue is dated 4/06/05. I've always sensed a very slight "notch" around 4k but not enough that I'd "pay for a correction" and certainly not enough to affect performance or satisfaction with the car. The love affair continues....

Rick

[derbo]

I work at a dealership and the standard procedure now thanks to BMW NA is to submit a PUMA case and send the DME to get updated in NJ. Takes 3 days including shipping. When the bulletin was created, Dealerships were allowed to update the DME in house, but I'm unsure why now it has to be done with BMWNA.


The DISA valve seems inoperative after the DME update. Normally the DISA valve moves when you turn on the car. Now it remains open no matter what. I'm not sure how it looks with load cause naturally you can't tell. The DISA Valve is fully operational when it was self tested on the GT1. What other "modifications" to the software is beyond me. I still notice a minor dip in at 4k, but Ive given up on figuring it out. I also have the newer DISA Valve. I paid for the update since it wasn't covered under CPO warranty when it was still active.

[Nivo]

I know that Brendan in Mass has tuned out the 4k rpm dip on the dyno. I think he goes by BrenTuning?

My dyno did show the 4k rpm dip on my local Mustang Dyno. This is a load based Dyno which uses an eddy current brake. the dip[ is there. Car is stock. down to the severely over due spark plugs.

http://www.e46turbo330ci.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/5th-gear-pull-stock.jpg

[MtnBikeKeef]

I work at a dealership and the standard procedure now thanks to BMW NA is to submit a PUMA case and send the DME to get updated in NJ. Takes 3 days including shipping. When the bulletin was created, Dealerships were allowed to update the DME in house, but I'm unsure why now it has to be done with BMWNA.


The DISA valve seems inoperative after the DME update. Normally the DISA valve moves when you turn on the car. Now it remains open no matter what. I'm not sure how it looks with load cause naturally you can't tell. The DISA Valve is fully operational when it was self tested on the GT1. What other "modifications" to the software is beyond me. I still notice a minor dip in at 4k, but Ive given up on figuring it out. I also have the newer DISA Valve. I paid for the update since it wasn't covered under CPO warranty when it was still active.

My CPO Warranty is almost up. Are you saying that I have no hope on having this covered under warranty, or is asking for a Goodwill Repair a possibility?

[iZHP]

how much did you pay for the programming and shipping to Woodcliff Lake? I might have to get this done.

[otisdog]

Has anybody that has experienced this dip have an automatic?
The SIB is just for manual transmission cars.

[Hermes]

how much did you pay for the programming and shipping to Woodcliff Lake? I might have to get this done.

I read on bf.c that it's $150


Has anybody that has experienced this dip have an automatic?
The SIB is just for manual transmission cars.

I haven't noticed it on mine but supposedly the last update was written 7/05. My car is a 7/05 build date so it likely has it installed from Regensburg if it was applicable since when I tried to schedule an appointment the dealer showed no updates for my software

[Mtnman]

Has anybody that has experienced this dip have an automatic?
The SIB is just for manual transmission cars.

Yes. I have an auto, and i have a major dip at 4k.

[danewilson77]

Yes. I have an auto, and i have a major dip at 4k.

You would think if it's DISA related it wouldn't matter.

[Sockethead]

My Dyno run at Mid Ohio in September showed a huge dip at that RPM. My DME has been replaced and programmed by BMW and I have Dinan stage 3 software.
I think it's the transition where the DISA valve opens....

[Mtnman]

From reading about this for months, this is what I gather:

On the normal ZHP small dips, it is the action of the DISA valve transitioning that briefly flattens the power curve. On mine and some others, the system retards itself because a knock sensor reads the DISA valve opening as a knock, and therefor retards the fuel to the engine briefly. So a normal ZHP dip is the valve opening, but the extra dip (like in mine feels like you floored the car, then fully came off the gas, then floored it again, like a bucking bronco) is the knock sensor. The NJ DME send off fixes this knock sensor problem.

And yes, dane, i dont know why it says manual only. I have yet to make any sense of that statement in the SIB.

[danewilson77]

From reading about this for months, this is what I gather:

On the normal ZHP small dips, it is the action of the DISA valve transitioning that briefly flattens the power curve. On mine and some others, the system retards itself because a knock sensor reads the DISA valve opening as a knock, and therefor retards the fuel to the engine briefly. So a normal ZHP dip is the valve opening, but the extra dip (like in mine feels like you floored the car, then fully came off the gas, then floored it again, like a bucking bronco) is the knock sensor. The NJ DME send off fixes this knock sensor problem.

And yes, dane, i dont know why it says manual only. I have yet to make any sense of that statement in the SIB.

I didn't say....

[wsmeyer]

From reading about this for months, this is what I gather:

On the normal ZHP small dips, it is the action of the DISA valve transitioning that briefly flattens the power curve. On mine and some others, the system retards itself because a knock sensor reads the DISA valve opening as a knock, and therefor retards the fuel to the engine briefly. So a normal ZHP dip is the valve opening, but the extra dip (like in mine feels like you floored the car, then fully came off the gas, then floored it again, like a bucking bronco) is the knock sensor. The NJ DME send off fixes this knock sensor problem.


This has been my experience as well. When my car was new it had a distinct stumble at 4K. It was not just a dip in the power band, you could feel the engine stumble and recover as if gas or spark was being cut off. The NJ DME update solved the problem but there still is an occasional power dip at 4K rpm. It is not the same at all, this one the engine does not stumble or anything there is just a brief dip in power. It also appears to be effected by weather, gas quality, and rate of acceleration. It seems to do it more often when it's warm outside and it seems to do it te least often with Chevron Super Unleaded.


William.

[LivesNearCostco]

In theory, warmer weather or lower quality (lower octane gas) could make knocking more likely.

[Sockethead]

This has been my experience as well. When my car was new it had a distinct stumble at 4K. It was not just a dip in the power band, you could feel the engine stumble and recover as if gas or spark was being cut off. The NJ DME update solved the problem but there still is an occasional power dip at 4K rpm. It is not the same at all, this one the engine does not stumble or anything there is just a brief dip in power. It also appears to be effected by weather, gas quality, and rate of acceleration. It seems to do it more often when it's warm outside and it seems to do it te least often with Chevron Super Unleaded.


William.
That's what I experience.... a stumble or fluttering at that RPM. It's really annoying. My dyno run shows a pretty big dip though...
http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp325/r_powell123/dyno.jpg

[danewilson77]

Is there clear concise direction about getting the fix done.

Do we go through dealer? Do we contact them on line? Price? Etc....

[Sockethead]

Is there clear concise direction about getting the fix done.

Do we go through dealer? Do we contact them on line? Price? Etc....
You need to go through the dealer because they have to pull the DME and send it out to BMW NA...

[danewilson77]

You need to go through the dealer because they have to pull the DME and send it out to BMW NA...

I thought it went to a second hand place in Jersey? Anyone can pull a DME.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[iZHP]

It goes to Woodcliff Lake, NJ - BMW NA headquarters.

The dealers are instructed to mail the DME to BMW NA.

[danewilson77]

It goes to Woodcliff Lake, NJ - BMW NA headquarters.

The dealers are instructed to mail the DME to BMW NA.

Copy. If I do this, I will pull it and take DME to dealer. Leave car in my garage so I can do other stuff during down time.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[Sockethead]

It goes to Woodcliff Lake, NJ - BMW NA headquarters.

The dealers are instructed to mail the DME to BMW NA.
The dealer has to start a PUMA case (I believe that's what it's called) with BMW NA to get it done. The actual TSA is aounde here somewhere isn't it? I know it's over at bimmerforums cause that's where I downloaded it from...

[danewilson77]

What is a PUMA case? I just want the "Knock sensor", "DISA issue" gone.

My dip is at exactly 4kish rpms every time. Gotta dyno soon....I know Justin.

[Sockethead]

What is a PUMA case? I just want the "Knock sensor", "DISA issue" gone.

My dip is at exactly 4kish rpms every time. Gotta dyno soon....I know Justin.

Well I had it done and you can see from my dyno run that I still have a power dip (it's really hard to see on the image but it's in the upper left) I'm prolly going to replace the DISA at some point...

[danewilson77]

My DISA is brand new (17 months old, and about 40k miles). You think the DISA will fix this?

[Sockethead]

My DISA is brand new (17 months old, and about 40k miles). You think the DISA will fix this?
I was hoping that the DISA would fix my problem but maybe not now that i know you've done that.

I know that you can take your key to the dealer and they can scan it and see what's been done to it... might be a way to find out if you've had the DME fix or not. Some repairs are dealer specific and will only show up if you take it back to that dealer but warranty repairs show up everywhere....

[MrMaico]

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=591590

TerraPhantm claims in that thread that there is no need to have the DME sent to Jersey anymore. He says that just by updating to the latest software at either a dealer or indy should take care of the 4000 rpm power dip. Smolck says his is pretty bad on his new ZHP and he is supposed to be taking it to an indy today for a software update. Cuious to see what happens, if it takes care of it without having to send it off to Joisey.

When I had mine updated at an indy for the 2800 to 3000 rpm miss it didn't change my 4000 dip. It is just bad enough to be noticeable, same as before the update. The other day with temps in the mid 30's I couldn't feel it at all the couple of times I tried to make it do it.

Barry

[llll1l1ll]

...but the extra dip (like in mine feels like you floored the car, then fully came off the gas, then floored it again, like a bucking bronco) is the knock sensor...

I don't experience anything like this. Just small spurts of hesitation from 2,700 - 3,000 rpms. Sounds like it's just the DISA maybe opening slightly? Or is this just a cause for software update time?

[danewilson77]

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=591590

TerraPhantm claims in that thread that there is no need to have the DME sent to Jersey anymore. He says that just by updating to the latest software at either a dealer or indy should take care of the 4000 rpm power dip. Smolck says his is pretty bad on his new ZHP and he is supposed to be taking it to an indy today for a software update. Cuious to see what happens, if it takes care of it without having to send it off to Joisey.

When I had mine updated at an indy for the 2800 to 3000 rpm miss it didn't change my 4000 dip. It is just bad enough to be noticeable, same as before the update. The other day with temps in the mid 30's I couldn't feel it at all the couple of times I tried to make it do it.

Barry

My DME has been updated with the latest software (2008). Dip is still there.

[jayjay_dee]

Other than the "supposedly" fix for the 4K dip fix, what else is included in "the latest and the greatest" software update?

[MrMaico]

I don't experience anything like this. Just small spurts of hesitation from 2,700 - 3,000 rpms. Sounds like it's just the DISA maybe opening slightly? Or is this just a cause for software update time?

That's exactly what mine was doing. Vanos rebuild, plugs, fuel filter all made no difference. DME update at an indy cured it completely. Also, when I bought it the dealer installed a new Disa while I did the paperwork. I first noticed it about 200 miles later on my way home......too far to go back to Vegas to have them look at it.


My DME has been updated with the latest software (2008). Dip is still there.

Ya, I'm interested to hear what Smolck has to report post update.

[llll1l1ll]

A trip to the indie it is!

[Rovert]

Am I hearing cry babies? :ducking

[Smolck]

Ya, I'm interested to hear what Smolck has to report post update.

I didn't get by the place today as planned. But tomorrow I am going. I can't stand this ridiculous dip I have. It is BAD. I will report my results.

[MrMaico]

I didn't get by the place today as planned. But tomorrow I am going. I can't stand this ridiculous dip I have. It is BAD. I will report my results.

Sounds good. I hope that takes care of it for you.

[Sockethead]

I don't experience anything like this. Just small spurts of hesitation from 2,700 - 3,000 rpms. Sounds like it's just the DISA maybe opening slightly? Or is this just a cause for software update time?

This is what Kpro's car is doing but it's not a ZHP, it's a 325... It threw an O2 code the other day so were replacing them. We're just at the begining of TS it.

When I had the Dinan stage 3 software installed on my ZHP, they updated the DME to the latest version first... I'm also interested to see what the update does for others...

[Smolck]

Sounds good. I hope that takes care of it for you.

Car is in the bay as we speak. Guy said sometimes the DME will die and that is scary, but I told him to proceed. Will update shortly.

[Mtnman]

fingers crossed........

[Sockethead]

Car is in the bay as we speak. Guy said sometimes the DME will die and that is scary, but I told him to proceed. Will update shortly.

Yea, the dealer killed my DME when they tried to update it when I first got the car.... took them a month to get a new one programmed with the updates... I didn't care at the time because it was covered under warranty and they gave me a 335xi loaner

[MrMaico]

This is what Kpro's car is doing but it's not a ZHP, it's a 325... It threw an O2 code the other day so were replacing them. We're just at the begining of TS it.

When I had the Dinan stage 3 software installed on my ZHP, they updated the DME to the latest version first... I'm also interested to see what the update does for others...

Is it possible this might be the problem?.........

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=445105&highlight=

[LivesNearCostco]

That's what the Shark Injector instructions said--if you don't follow carefully you could brick your DME! It made me nervous but my DME survived even though I deviated slightly from the instructions. My car shows a 4,000 RPM dip on the dyno but I swear I don't feel it when driving. Had DME updated in October but haven't dynoed since. Even the sample dyno used to market the Shark Injector shows the dip. Next time I'm on track I'll try to pay closer attention when RPMs pass through 4,000.

My dyno from October 2010, before DME update and before VANOS seals:
3030

Shark Injector marketing dyno for E46 330 (they have another one for the ZHP showing slightly higher gains)
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/image/dyno/E46330_shark.pdf


Car is in the bay as we speak. Guy said sometimes the DME will die and that is scary, but I told him to proceed. Will update shortly.

[MrMaico]

fingers crossed........

+1

[johnrando]

Car is in the bay as we speak. Guy said sometimes the DME will die and that is scary, but I told him to proceed. Will update shortly.

Can't wait to hear.

[Smolck]

My car is ALIVE and so is the DME! Indy just called and said he is all done (no sending to Jersey) and the car pulls hard all the way to 6800rpm. Haven't picked it up yet, but all is well. $125 and problem solved!

[MrMaico]

My car is ALIVE and so is the DME! Indy just called and said he is all done (no sending to Jersey) and the car pulls hard all the way to 6800rpm. Haven't picked it up yet, but all is well. $125 and problem solved!

Good to hear! Video? :-)

[Hermes]

My car is ALIVE and so is the DME! Indy just called and said he is all done (no sending to Jersey) and the car pulls hard all the way to 6800rpm. Haven't picked it up yet, but all is well. $125 and problem solved!

Great to hear its done! I am also eager to see another video of you cackling as you drive home with a dinner in the passenger seat. Just try to find a different place to put the phone this time so we can see the road please

[danewilson77]

My car is ALIVE and so is the DME! Indy just called and said he is all done (no sending to Jersey) and the car pulls hard all the way to 6800rpm. Haven't picked it up yet, but all is well. $125 and problem solved!

Mmm..I'm skeptical, and will await YOUR report.

[derbo]

Funny thing:

There is 3-4 technicians with ZHPs at my dealership. 2 of our cars have the updated DME. (yes we paid for it out of our own pocket since the DME must be sent to NJ for reprogramming) We tested each car's DISA Valve. The other tech and mine with the updated DME shows the DISA Valve is remains open during normal operation. The others without the update, when the car is turned on, the DISA Valve closes the flap. This is the assumed normal operation mode with it opening the flap around 3700-4100rpm. We tested the updated DME car's DISA Valve operation using the GT1 and it shows that it is capable of closing and opening on its own but is not doing it on neither one of our updated DME zhp under normal startup.

This is where we led to the conclusion that the DISA valve was chosen to be remain open with the DME update. There is probably more to the software update as well but this is one of the changes we believe has been made. I'm trying to see who I can talk to, to get more information on what specific changes have been done to eliminate the "dip."


OT: PUMA is the system that the dealership uses to file specific warranty claims that BMWNA handles.

[trancenation]

3-4 techs with zhps? Is this at BMW of SF? Funny thing the other day I was over there, a carporter asked if I was trading in my car.


Funny thing:

There is 3-4 technicians with ZHPs at my dealership. 2 of our cars have the updated DME. (yes we paid for it out of our own pocket since the DME must be sent to NJ for reprogramming) We tested each car's DISA Valve. The other tech and mine with the updated DME shows the DISA Valve is remains open during normal operation. The others without the update, when the car is turned on, the DISA Valve closes the flap. This is the assumed normal operation mode with it opening the flap around 3700-4100rpm. We tested the updated DME car's DISA Valve operation using the GT1 and it shows that it is capable of closing and opening on its own but is not doing it on neither one of our updated DME zhp under normal startup.

This is where we led to the conclusion that the DISA valve was chosen to be remain open with the DME update. There is probably more to the software update as well but this is one of the changes we believe has been made. I'm trying to see who I can talk to, to get more information on what specific changes have been done to eliminate the "dip."


OT: PUMA is the system that the dealership uses to file specific warranty claims that BMWNA handles.

[Mtnman]

Theoretically, then, one could just unplug the disa and see if the dip is removed? They had to do something more to the programming than just turn the DISA valve off.....i wonder what they do.

[derbo]

3-4 techs with zhps? Is this at BMW of SF? Funny thing the other day I was over there, a carporter asked if I was trading in my car.

Yes at BMW SF. Our cars are offsite at the employee parking lot. I did notice a white ZHP in the parking lot a few days ago, but I did not see the owner. Maybe it was you. :rofl


A few technicians own ZHPs. The E46 is the most sought after car at the dealership as far as technicians are concerned. All of them except Xi and 325i SULEV M56s.

[derbo]

Theoretically, then, one could just unplug the disa and see if the dip is removed? They had to do something more to the programming than just turn the DISA valve off.....i wonder what they do.

I am assuming there was more done besides the DISA. I am just stating that the DISA valve remains open on the updated DME cars. Its probably one of a few changes.

[Nivo]

Yep; not only that, it's audible... it sounds and feels like I'm pumping the gas pedal as I sweep through 2800 - 3000.

If I may represent it textually/onomatopoeically, sweeping through third gear sounds like this:

BWAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrRRRrrRRrrRRrrrRRRrrr RRRRRRRRRRRRRR

.............................(2800rpms)^
Actually I recorded the 4k rpm dip and the oscillation between 2600-3200 rpms on my dyno..3031

[MrMaico]

Funny thing:

There is 3-4 technicians with ZHPs at my dealership. 2 of our cars have the updated DME. (yes we paid for it out of our own pocket since the DME must be sent to NJ for reprogramming) We tested each car's DISA Valve. The other tech and mine with the updated DME shows the DISA Valve is remains open during normal operation. The others without the update, when the car is turned on, the DISA Valve closes the flap. This is the assumed normal operation mode with it opening the flap around 3700-4100rpm. We tested the updated DME car's DISA Valve operation using the GT1 and it shows that it is capable of closing and opening on its own but is not doing it on neither one of our updated DME zhp under normal startup.

This is where we led to the conclusion that the DISA valve was chosen to be remain open with the DME update. There is probably more to the software update as well but this is one of the changes we believe has been made. I'm trying to see who I can talk to, to get more information on what specific changes have been done to eliminate the "dip."


OT: PUMA is the system that the dealership uses to file specific warranty claims that BMWNA handles.

Interesting stuff, thanks for posting it. So if a person would turn on your ignition without starting the car and go under the hood and unplug the Disa you should be able to hear the valve open up again? Or does it have to be started for it to close? That's assuming the update in Jersey hasn't been done. Might be a way to determine if a car has had the Jersey update.

Hopefully you can find who to talk to and get some specific info on exactly what the update in Jersey actually entails. Be nice to finally know for sure why BMW insists that it can only be done in Jersey.

Thanks again.......Barry

[Hermes]

A few technicians own ZHPs. The E46 is the most sought after car at the dealership as far as technicians are concerned. All of them except Xi and 325i SULEV M56s.

I applaud your taste!

http://www.thegrio.com/assets_c/2010/11/jay-z-big-pimpin-regret-thumb-400xauto-14023.jpg

[Smolck]

Mmm..I'm skeptical, and will await YOUR report.

Car drives better for sure. I won't 100% know if it is completely better till it warms up. Below 50 degrees it wasn't noticeable much, and today it is under 40 (rare). But can say the car feels better in the mid range (2000-4000 rpm). I am not the first ZHP this indy has done the update for and others report his fix did the trick. The indy spent many years at the dealer and only recently opened his own shop. He said he did a lot of the updates to the ZHP's when they were still being sold new. I asked him about Jersey and he said that that is more of a myth today. Yes, he admits back in 05-06 they had to do it, but part of that is dealer voodoo based on some "policy" they have. The properly equipped indy is under no such constraint and this particular shop also just got a new "update" to his GT1 that he said would allow for a "performance" tune. He hadn't tried it yet and said he would call when he got that up and running for me to try out.

And all the while my local dealer told me the car had to go to Jersey. I am here to say that I am reasonably sure that isn't the case.

[johnrando]

What is a GT1?

[Hermes]

What is a GT1?

Programming software

[iZHP]

just went through the folder of papers for my car and found a receipt for diagnosing the infamous 4k dip. DME was sent out to NJ for updating :thumbup

[danewilson77]

just went through the folder of papers for my car and found a receipt for diagnosing the infamous 4k dip. DME was sent out to NJ for updating :thumbup

Kewl. I should just do this. Damn... So much to do before the meet.

Damn.

Unless homey reports back with an affirmative on the dealer fix.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[Smolck]

Kewl. I should just do this. Damn... So much to do before the meet.

Damn.

Unless homey reports back with an affirmative on the dealer fix.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

If you have the Shark kit remember to take it off before you re-code the DME. Then re-install it.

[zj96sc]

My first ZHP had the DME reprogammed in NJ for the 4k dip, and what I felt at 4k in that car isn't vastly different from what I feel at 4k in my current ZHP. I have nothing to indicate the current DME has been to NJ so I don't really know what to think.

[Smolck]

Don't think you need to go to a dealer or the DME to Jersey. My local indy did mine just today in 2 hours.

[danewilson77]

Don't think you need to go to a dealer or the DME to Jersey. My local indy did mine just today in 2 hours.

So your review is that the dip is indeed gone?

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[Smolck]

So your review is that the dip is indeed gone?

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

Yes. Again, I need to wait till it gets a little warmer (as it was more prevalent at 60 degrees) but I am here to say it is much better thus far. And again, another ZHP owner with the same issue had his resolved completely from the same indy.

[derbo]

Interesting stuff, thanks for posting it. So if a person would turn on your ignition without starting the car and go under the hood and unplug the Disa you should be able to hear the valve open up again? Or does it have to be started for it to close? That's assuming the update in Jersey hasn't been done. Might be a way to determine if a car has had the Jersey update.

Hopefully you can find who to talk to and get some specific info on exactly what the update in Jersey actually entails. Be nice to finally know for sure why BMW insists that it can only be done in Jersey.

Thanks again.......Barry

The two non-updated DME ZHPs I've looked at, closes the DISA Valve flapper when the car is on and idling.

The two updated DME ZHPs, do not move the DISA Valve from its open position and seems to not move at all. Perhaps it might during load? I cannot say since I do not have a dyno to try it out LOL.

[zhp43867]

I never had a 4k dip (at least I don't think) but I had a weird pulsing throttle problem from 2.5-3.8k RPM in 3rd or 4th gear under close to full throttle application. I went to my dealership and they said I didn't need the NJ reflash, my car was listed as "no open campaigns". They did some type of flash and no more issues.

[zj96sc]

So, smolck, what did your indy put on your DME? The latest build? Are there S/W build #s we can reference?

[danewilson77]

So, smolck, what did your indy put on your DME? The latest build? Are there S/W build #s we can reference?

+1

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[Smolck]

So, smolck, what did your indy put on your DME? The latest build? Are there S/W build #s we can reference?

At this point I am calling it "magical koolaid" but I will call them later today and ask what he did and what the software version was (maybe the ms45.1 has service packs like windows OS?)

[Hermes]

What are you gonna do about your tire bubble you mentioned on the other forum?

[Smolck]

What are you gonna do about your tire bubble you mentioned on the other forum?

Unlike some, I don't really freak out about that kind of thing. It isn't as bad as some I have had in the past. For now I am just driving it until I decide what to do about the tires. I'll probably scrap the rears in favor of some newer, sticker ones.

About the DME, I had a chance to flog my car through some twistys today and I am pleased to report that driving purposefully across the rev range has affirmed the problem is indeed gone. I would always get some hesitation when driving like that, shifting not quite at redline where the revs stay in the 4000 range a lot, and now it is GONE. So much more enjoyable! Woohoo!

And my new Alcantara wheel with tri-stitch and alcantara armrest just came in!

[Hermes]

Nice, looking forward to pics (and still waiting on a video). What do you think about Hankook Ventus R-S3's?

[zj96sc]

At this point I am calling it "magical koolaid" but I will call them later today and ask what he did and what the software version was (maybe the ms45.1 has service packs like windows OS?)

I'm willing to bet that BMW has each S/W build ID'd with some version code, the key will be figuring that for ourselves.

[Sockethead]

So if they did program the DISA to stay open, that would defeat the purpose of that device.... to change the plenum size to increase torque at lower RPM... and HP at higher RPM... maybe that's why the maximum tourque RPM is so high on my dyno run?

[Smolck]

So if they did program the DISA to stay open, that would defeat the purpose of that device.... to change the plenum size to increase torque at lower RPM... and HP at higher RPM... maybe that's why the maximum tourque RPM is so high on my dyno run?

The update does NOT hold the DISA open. As you mentioned, if it did, it would kill your low end power and the whole reason behind it's use in our intake.

[Sockethead]

The update does NOT hold the DISA open. As you mentioned, if it did, it would kill your low end power and the whole reason behind it's use in our intake.
Then what was everyone talking about earlier about the valve being open? Sorry I'm at work and can only sneak on here for a few minutes at a time...

[danewilson77]

Then what was everyone talking about earlier about the valve being open? Sorry I'm at work and can only sneak on here for a few minutes at a time...

It was speculation.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[Smolck]

Then what was everyone talking about earlier about the valve being open? Sorry I'm at work and can only sneak on here for a few minutes at a time...

I saw it too, but I didn't read it that closely. I can't understand why anyone would think disabling the flap is even possible.

[danewilson77]

I saw it too, but I didn't read it that closely. I can't understand why anyone would think disabling the flap is even possible.

Oh.... It's possible. Car doesn't run right though.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[Sockethead]

I saw it too, but I didn't read it that closely. I can't understand why anyone would think disabling the flap is even possible.


Oh.... It's possible. Car doesn't run right though.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT
Yea. that's why I was saying like. WTF?

[danewilson77]

Yea. that's why I was saying like. WTF?

Hehe....

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[derbo]

I saw it too, but I didn't read it that closely. I can't understand why anyone would think disabling the flap is even possible.

I am seeing that is has been disable on two of the cars updated by BMWNA. The flap does not operate during reving in position but I would not know if it does with load in place. This is merely my observations with a few of the zhps here.


However the SIB 12 17 05 that was performed is stated to be a DME Knock adapation reset.

[Smolck]

I am seeing that is has been disable on two of the cars updated by BMWNA. The flap does not operate during reving in position but I would not know if it does with load in place. This is merely my observations with a few of the zhps here.


However the SIB 12 17 05 that was performed is stated to be a DME Knock adapation reset.

Considering the function of the DISA I would think it would kill your low end torque if you made it stay open. I just don't see why that would work. It is designed to utilize the variable length intake runner design of the M54. Holding it open would nullify that design element. Might work in WOT conditions, but for normal driving I would think driveability would suffer.

[danewilson77]

Considering the function of the DISA I would think it would kill your low end torque if you made it stay open. I just don't see why that would work. It is designed to utilize the variable length intake runner design of the M54. Holding it open would nullify that design element. Might work in WOT conditions, but for normal driving I would think driveability would suffer.

Explained above.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[MrMaico]

Anyone ever tried unhooking power to the Disa and seeing how it runs? I assume it would throw a code or two but I wonder how much difference it really makes? These motors aren't exactly torque monsters down low with a working Disa.

Also interesting to note that the original SIB for the 4000 dip called for a reflash and Disa replacement........




>>>>Service Measure

B12 209 05

04/06/2005

Engine Electrical
Subject
M54B30 MS45.1; Engine Power Drops at 4000 rpm

Vehicle
E46, E60 with M54B30 and manual transmission.

Complaint
Customer may complain of an engine power drop at approximately 4000 rpm during aggressive acceleration.

Cause
Ignition timing retardation due to unfavorable tolerances of DISA valve flap shaft.

Vibrations of a DISA valve are interpreted by the knock sensor system as a detonation combustion.
Measure
On a customer complaint basis, replace DISA valve with the improved part (PN 11 61 7 544 805).

After DISA replacement, connect vehicle to DIS/GT1 and from DME identification page retrieve the programmed and basic DME part numbers.

Reprogram DME with the latest available DIS CDI SSS CIP software version. DME programming should last for at least 20 minutes and should result in both programmed and basic control unit number changes.

Reprogramming of DME clears the long-term knock sensors adaptations. If the knock adaptation values are not cleared, the vehicle will still exhibit the power lack complaint, even with the improved DISA valve installed.
Important :In the event the DME programming takes only a short period of time (approximately 5 minutes), and the basic control unit part number has not been changed, the adaptation clearing process has not been accomplished.In such a case, contact Technical Hotline - Drivetrain via a PuMA case, requesting authorization for DME shipment to Engineering Department for reprogramming. For the PuMA case title use the following: "MS45.1 DME KNOCK ADAPTATION RESET".<<<<




Five months later it changed to "Do not replace any parts" and send the DME to Jersey........





>>>>This Service Information bulletin supersedes SI B12 17 05 dated September 2005.

designates changes to this revision

SUBJECT
M54B30 - Engine Power Drops at 4000 RPM


MODEL
E46, E60, E85 with M54B30 engine (MS45.0 and MS45.1) and manual or SMG transmissions only


SITUATION
The customer may complain of an engine power drop at approximately 4000 RPM during aggressive acceleration.

CAUSE
Ignition timing retardation shift due to unfavorable knock adaptations in the 4000 - 5000 RPM range.

CORRECTION
On a customer complaint basis, perform the procedure described below.

PROCEDURE

Verify the complaint. This situation can vary from a slight surge to a noticeable drop in power during hard acceleration.

Do not replace any parts!

Submit a PuMA case requesting authorization for DME shipment to the BMW Technical Services/ Drivetrain Department for reprogramming using the PuMA case title: "MS45.1 DME KNOCK ADAPTATION RESET". Refer to SI B12 09 04 for DME shipping guidelines.

This special DME programming can only be done in this manner.

For the E60 only: The vehicle must also have a Vehicle data status of E060-05-09-530, or higher. If not, reprogram the remainder of the vehicle using the latest version of Progman.

WARRANTY
Covered under the terms of the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty.

For the appropriate labor operations please refer to the KSD system.<<<<

[Mtnman]

Theres a few funny things about this SB. First, it say manual only. Why? If its disa related, or knock sensor related, why would it only be manual? I have an Auto, and it stutters like hell at 4k.

Also, I have unplugged my disa and driven. It doesnt throw codes at all....but, i still had the stutter at 4k (like the knock sensor cutting fuel type stutter.)

I dont understand either of those things.....which is also the reason why i dont know what to do with the car right now to fix it.

[danewilson77]

Unplugging it is basically like breaking butterfly valve, no? This will def cause codeage.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[MrMaico]

Theres a few funny things about this SB. First, it say manual only. Why? If its disa related, or knock sensor related, why would it only be manual? I have an Auto, and it stutters like hell at 4k.

Also, I have unplugged my disa and driven. It doesnt throw codes at all....but, i still had the stutter at 4k (like the knock sensor cutting fuel type stutter.)

I dont understand either of those things.....which is also the reason why i dont know what to do with the car right now to fix it.

So your saying it didn't feel any different as far as low end torque with it unplugged? Might have to try it next time I have my car out for a drive. Would have been today if we wouldn't have gotten a 1/4" dusting of snow last night. Now the roads are all salted and sloppy. grrrrrr!!! Should be dried out by tomorrow though.

Doesn't make any sense why it wouldn't include Auto trans also. Maybe they were only getting complaints from manual owners? Some people on this forum (never heard of it before) seem to think that......

http://www.bmwauto.net/forums/bmw/p/93155/disa_valve_replacement_report/5

Have you tried just getting the latest software update at an indy or dealer? Not really that expensive at an indy.

[Smolck]

Well definitive results are in from my reflash this past week by an indy. My massive dip at 4000rpm is in fact gone! It finally warmed up and sure enough, the car does not have any noticeable loss of power at 4000rpm like before. So even though I don't have the exact software he used (yet) it absolutely cleared up the issue. My car has the original DISA still on it and 139,000 miles. I am very happy. I think now it's time to look at AA or somebody for a custom tune.

[kayger12]

This is good news.

I'm thinking that my car was updated by the PO, as I have no dip.

Droid X. Tapatalk. Use it.

[danewilson77]

Well definitive results are in from my reflash this past week by an indy. My massive dip at 4000rpm is in fact gone! It finally warmed up and sure enough, the car does not have any noticeable loss of power at 4000rpm like before. So even though I don't have the exact software he used (yet) it absolutely cleared up the issue. My car has the original DISA still on it and 139,000 miles. I am very happy. I think now it's time to look at AA or somebody for a custom tune.

Sounds good. Looks like I'm shelling out another $100 or so. Unclear about shark though.... And am surprised I still have the dip.... Even though JC, said he updated with latest software. I would like to get him on here to see what his input is, regarding the dip at 4k rpms.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[Smolck]

Unclear about shark though....

All you have to do is unshark it, then do the DME update again, then reshark it. Do NOT try and update the DME in ANY way with the shark still on the car. PERIOD!

[danewilson77]

All you have to do is unshark it, then do the DME update again, then reshark it. Do NOT try and update the DME in ANY way with the shark still on the car. PERIOD!

I have a different situation.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[Hermes]

I have a different situation.

You don't have the shark programmer module anymore?

W/regards to auto w/dip from earlier in this thread... When I get home next month I will give my car a thorough drive and see if I can tell if it has the dip, but like I said earlier I haven't been able to notice anything. That goes along with the lack of update available for my car when I called the dealer and they pulled my VIN. Will report back at end of Feb.

[danewilson77]

You don't have the shark programmer module anymore?

W/regards to auto w/dip from earlier in this thread... When I get home next month I will give my car a thorough drive and see if I can tell if it has the dip, but like I said earlier I haven't been able to notice anything. That goes along with the lack of update available for my car when I called the dealer and they pulled my VIN. Will report back at end of Feb.

I sent my dme to Jim Conforti to have Shark put on and latest BMW update... Therefore I do no have original configuration on my Shark plug in.

What's more... If he put the latest update on there, why is dip still there?

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[az3579]

I don't think the Shark is supposed to address it, Dane. I still have it as well.
I get the feeling that the software you have is the same as the regular shark injector device, just that it had to be put on differently since it didn't work for you.
Possible that the latest BMW update wasn't actually the latest? Could you verify version numbers?

[danewilson77]

I don't think the Shark is supposed to address it, Dane. I still have it as well.
I get the feeling that the software you have is the same as the regular shark injector device, just that it had to be put on differently since it didn't work for you.
Possible that the latest BMW update wasn't actually the latest? Could you verify version numbers?

Idk. JC said he put the 2008 software update on there.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[Hermes]

I would think if he did it then you could get him to do it again (but it sounds like a big PITA for you to take out, undo, update, redo). Maybe contact him and see if you send it to him he can get it all done w/updated DME for a fee?

:idea
What if you send your programmer to him and he updates that?

[danewilson77]

I would think if he did it then you could get him to do it again (but it sounds like a big PITA for you to take out, undo, update, redo). Maybe contact him and see if you send it to him he can get it all done w/updated DME for a fee?

:idea
What if you send your programmer to him and he updates that?

I will try to contact him.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[derbo]

Considering the function of the DISA I would think it would kill your low end torque if you made it stay open. I just don't see why that would work. It is designed to utilize the variable length intake runner design of the M54. Holding it open would nullify that design element. Might work in WOT conditions, but for normal driving I would think driveability would suffer.


I thought it was strange too. I'm just reporting my observations. It doesn't make sense that they would make the DISA inoperative to remove the dip.

Two updated DME ZHPs: On startup, the DISA valve does not go into closed positioned for low end torque.

Two non-updated ZHPs: On startup, the DISA valve moves to closed position which is the correct function of the DISA Valve.


I swapped DISA Valves with on of the non-updated to verify the DISA Valve was working properly. I am puzzled and intrigued.

[danewilson77]

Just wanted to throw in some discussion JC had on another board.....Pretty interesting stuff....

Anyway....I am trying to contact him to see if he would mind commenting in this thread. Please be patient...

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
"Well, I wasn't going to touch this - but what the hell

First let's deal with Shark"Cracker".

Nice going in cutting into the big electrolytic (C1). [That's the thing on the right with the cut marks in the top] Did you use a SAWZALL, or do you just have no skill at disassembly? Please NO NOT consider a career in Explosive Ordnance Disposal.

You could have just used a larger flatblade screwdriver to pop the top off. It's just a little bit of cement. Or just unscrew the 4 screws on the OBD version - LOL.

If you had just ASKED me for a picture of the circuit board, I would have been happy to give you one. I've given a number of them out to COLLEGE STUDENTS on this very board who contacted me privately and wanted to use them for this or that project in school. Even one Boy Scout (I think he was an Eagle). You could have made up a "good story" like I'm sure a few of them did. What do I care? It's an electrical circuit. The "magic" isn't in hardware guys, it's in the FIRMWARE and the code that gets loaded into the car.

So, on that point - great accomplishment.

Right up there w/ the Wright Bros, Penicillin, and the Manhattan Project.

As to "unlocking the Shark Injector" to work with a different car - NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Even I cannot do it. It was designed that way on purpose. Feel free to try to desolder the little flash and read it out. It's not in there, and the data is useless to you - encrypted.

Feel free to write your own AVR code, erase mine, and replace it.

You paid for it - have fun doing whatever with it.

If you're REAL SMART, have a few high current transistors around, and some high current/high brightness IR LED arrays around, you can make one of those devices that will change red lights to green - just don't get caught with it

BTW, the SHARK INJECTOR has NOTHING to do with SHARK EDIT.

NOTHING.

The Shark Injector is a tool designed to backup your current stock calibration while loading the proper modified calibration into the car.

That's it.

The USB port is for two purposes:

1) To allow dealers to program the device w/o the large serial-port programmer that was designed/built in the early 2000's. (and)

2) To allow END USERS (aka Customers) to load either:

.....a) Updates to their current software (should those exist as needed)
.....b) Different software after first returning their car to stock.

Why different software?

Because - let's just say you move from California (91 RFG fuel) to somewhere that has 93/94 octane premium. We're happy to switch you FOR FREE to the proper software for your fuel.

(Dealers have been doing this for YEARS - long before the USB port existed)

In the past, it was kind of a hassle - shipping both ways, costs to you, etc.

Now, you can use a little program I wrote, a driver package, a USB cable that anyone who has a digital camera will have, and email to swap software.

If you want to go to a completely different program - say from software for a stock vehicle - to "cam" software - it's done for a nominal fee.

OR you can "buy in" to our Redline program and get every damn software we've ever made or will make for your car at any time you want - FOR FREE.

Just for asking politely.

(Now, look in the mirror and make that MONKEY FACE/SOUND while scratching yourself like you're in the ZOO )

Next, let's deal with "Graffix000".....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graffix000 View Post
I would like my money back for the crap I bought for my M5. Worst software I ever bought. Made the car so twitchy, it was barely driveable.
No, actually BMW made your car "twitchy" via a later software update.

This was first reported by one of your fellow M5 Boarders and we worked on this together to fix the issue that BMW caused.

This is ONE of the things I changed in the "M5 Board" tune.

I gave the M5 Board tune the exact OPPOSITE throttle response of what the owners of the original M5's (friends of mine) wanted and liked.

Yes, owners (just like you - except they were my friends here in Utah) REQUESTED and APPROVED of the throttle response of the base software.

Some like it hot - some like it not-so-hot.

Quote:
Then came onto m5board telling everyone that he was going to revise the software and fix the issues everyone was complaining about. This was about a year ago or so...
Hey Graffix... here are the file dates of all TEN of the "M5 Board" tunes as requested by your fellow M5 Boarders. TEN.

(Would you like me to post a screenprint of the actual directory?)

26 AUG 2010 M5 Board Tune - Raised Revs (91 AKI)
26 AUG 2010 M5 Board Tune - Raised Revs (93+ AKI)
24 OCT 2010 M5 Board Tune - Stock Revs (91 AKI)
24 OCT 2010 M5 Board Tune - Stock Revs (93+ AKI)
24 OCT 2010 M5 Board Tune - Raised Revs SAI (91 AKI)
24 OCT 2010 M5 Board Tune - Raised Revs SAI (93+ AKI)
24 OCT 2010 M5 Board Tune - Stock Revs SAI (91 AKI)
24 OCT 2010 M5 Board Tune - Stock Revs SAI (93+ AKI)
24 OCT 2010 M5 Board RACE Tune - (91 AKI)
24 OCT 2010 M5 Board RACE Tune - (93+ AKI)

Since the respective file dates, each one of those has been available FOR FREE directly from ME - all you had to do was send the Injector to me (I suggest one of those Priority Mail boxes) via an insured and trackable method, with enough dough (cash/money order) inside for me to return it to you via the same method.

You also need to return your car to stock before sending the SI to me.

For that - I switch you from whatever you had to one (pick one) of the FIVE different variants of M5 board software. Of course, I will switch you on Octane at any point you wish - within that same "pair".

Again, FOR FREE. (excluding shipping and insurance)

The software was developed AT MY EXPENSE for the people on the M5 Board, was TESTED by people on the M5 Board, and made available FOR FREE to people on the M5 Board who already had a Shark Injector.

Once it's been tested TO MY SATISFACTION - they will also be available via the free USB LOADER program.

So, you were saying......

Maybe y'all wanted me to announce it in an HD video while doing jumping jacks in my chile pepper boxer shorts?"
__________________________________________________ _______________________________________________

[kayger12]

I love this guy.

Droid X. Tapatalk. Use it.

[danewilson77]

I have emails into TMS and http://www.bonnevillemotorwerks.com/

[Hermes]

DW, so if I read that correct because of the port he can update your Shark to the newer software which will allow you to unprogram, then reprogram your car so you can do the DME update. Did I understand that correctly?

[danewilson77]

Perhaps. I dunno. I need to talk to him. I think I need to send my Shark to him.....have him put the default BMW update on it.....then send it back to me.....with both the Shark and BMW updates on it. Right now......I only have Shark....on my Shark....if you follow.

[Hermes]

I think so... I will wait to hear what his reply is

[danewilson77]

When you install the Shark.....the first part of the software event...is.....the Shark downloads your current configuration and saves it to the Shark injector that plugs into your OBD-II port. This enables....at a later time if need be....going back to OEM Software setup.

The second part of install places the Shark on your DME and reconfigures fuel management, RPM limits, etc....

[Hermes]

I get that. So what happened to your original settings (now that I understand what you meant in the other post). Why do you have the Shark if I understand that it was never used but he programmed your DME himself?

[danewilson77]

I do not have the original settings. I have no way to go back to oem setup......since he put the Shark on my DME and performed the latest dealer update.

I bought the Shark....used an auto charger vice a constant charger.....messed up my DME....so I had to ship my DME to him. He is a Hero for helping me out.

[Hermes]

Ahhh... I see. Well I hope he can figure something out for you.

[danewilson77]

Not necessarily a huge deal for me.....but would rather hear his thoughts on the "DIP" so we can all benefit. If he has a solution for me.....that would be great as well.

[danewilson77]

Another dip graph.

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/attachment-2-1.jpg

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[Hermes]

Another dip graph.

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/attachment-2-1.jpg

That can't be a ZHP unless it has F/I

[danewilson77]

That can't be a ZHP unless it has F/I

Yep. FI.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[Hermes]

Can I haz one? (w/o dip please)

[danewilson77]

Can I haz one? (w/o dip please)

:rofl

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[Sockethead]

Can I haz one? (w/o dip please)

I don't think you'll have to worry about the dip in that one LOL

[danewilson77]

Sure.....but it was confirming to see the dip here as well.......on a NON ZHP.

[Sockethead]

Sure.....but it was confirming to see the dip here as well.......on a NON ZHP.
got ya... so I'm thinking that maybe it is the transistion of the DISA valve opening.... There has to be a disturbance in air flow as the valve opens up

For us "older" guys.. I'm thinking of the old Rochester Quadrajet carbs with tiny primary butterflys and huge secondary butterflys... there was a huge lag when the secondaries opened up.... we nicknamed them the "quadrabog"

[MrMaico]

For us "older" guys.. I'm thinking of the old Rochester Quadrajet carbs with tiny primary butterflys and huge secondary butterflys... there was a huge lag when the secondaries opened up.... we nicknamed them the "quadrabog"

LOL......Ya, but it sure sounded cool. Especially with no air cleaner. :-)

[Sockethead]

LOL......Ya, but it sure sounded cool. Especially with no air cleaner. :-)

HAHA! yea, it did!

[danewilson77]

got ya... so I'm thinking that maybe it is the transistion of the DISA valve opening.... There has to be a disturbance in air flow as the valve opens up

For us "older" guys.. I'm thinking of the old Rochester Quadrajet carbs with tiny primary butterflys and huge secondary butterflys... there was a huge lag when the secondaries opened up.... we nicknamed them the "quadrabog"

OK. Makes sense. Tell me how a dealer update, removes the dip (caused by DISA), Batman.

[Katu]

I have to admit I have never noticed the 4k power dip under WOT for 1st 2nd or 3rd gear.

My '04 just hit 70,000 miles but when looking at records from the PO I noticed:

"DISA Valve Flap Broken, replaced DISA Valve" at 43,000 miles.

Did the new DISA valve maybe buy me some time? I have no idea what DME version I am running and I don't think I can check without the proper scan tool right?

Thanks guys!

[Smolck]

I can guarantee your dyno readings will show it. But do you actually feel it in real life driving?


You can see my RWHP figures climb and there's just a tiny burp at 3500. The graph blocks the torque which spikes at about 245ft-lbs but starts a dive to 20ft-lbs less which is only an 10% drop for a split second so in real time driving on my car I don't feel anything. It's weird how torque falls as RPMs rise but I guess torque is best felt at the low end where it's important since torque is how hard you can twist. Horsepower rises as RPM's rise which is good in the high end since HP means how fast your can twist.

Dang, that is one massive dip. Also, this post proves that revving to 6800rpm isn't helping you much, short of staying in power band on gear change.

[Sockethead]

Dang, that is one massive dip. Also, this post proves that revving to 6800rpm isn't helping you much, short of staying in power band on gear change.
yea ultimately, you want your shift to the next gear to land right at peak torque

[Katu]

I have to admit I have never noticed the 4k power dip under WOT for 1st 2nd or 3rd gear.

My '04 just hit 70,000 miles but when looking at records from the PO I noticed:

"DISA Valve Flap Broken, replaced DISA Valve" at 43,000 miles.

Did the new DISA valve maybe buy me some time? I have no idea what DME version I am running and I don't think I can check without the proper scan tool right?

Thanks guys!

Bump! It looks like I do need the right equipment to check the dme version, any input on the lack of a dip?

[danewilson77]

Bumping this so I need not have to find it again. I have JC's phone number. Will be calling him today regarding.

1. Any insight into 4,000 rpm dip > DISA, Programming etc?
2. How do I specifically get my DME updated, as I do not have default DME settings saved on my Shark? He installed Shark and latest BMW update.
3. If JC installed latest BMW update, why do I still have "Dip" while others getting update, claim to have "no dip" anymore?

These are the questions I have for him. If there are any others...please post here and I will try to get them answered....

I will also offer to him.....to just answer the questions here "in thread" at his convenience, if he desires.


User guide added for future use.

http://www.bimmerzone.com/images/inject4.pdf

DW

[echo46]

Thanks

[danewilson77]

Bump....yeah....JC isn't really getting back to me. Sure he gets bugged all of the time. Called and left message on 2/6/12.

[Sockethead]

Bump....yeah....JC isn't really getting back to me. Sure he gets bugged all of the time. Called and left message on 2/6/12.
Well hopefully he will at some pont.... we're all very interested in his answers...

[danewilson77]

Well hopefully he will at some pont.... we're all very interested in his answers...

Yes sir. I did only call him yesterday. We will give him some grace. Also PM'd him....hoping he might have notifications turned on.

[imola red zhp]

Is there an update to this issue 4000 RPM dip?

[danewilson77]

Is there an update to this issue 4000 RPM dip?

Hehe.....You will find mixed reviews on this. Some say the updated software fixes it. Some say it doesn't. I know when Jim Conforti installed the Shark on my ECU and updated to latest BMW software...it did not fix the dip.

Many......myself included....are leaning toward the DISA vlave as being the issue with the dip.

[Nivo]

Hehe.....You will find mixed reviews on this. Some say the updated software fixes it. Some say it doesn't. I know when Jim Conforti installed the Shark on my ECU and updated to latest BMW software...it did not fix the dip.

Many......myself included....are leaning toward the DISA vlave as being the issue with the dip.

I can test this next time on the dyno. Just need to find a broken disa to gut the valve.

[imola red zhp]

Hehe.....You will find mixed reviews on this. Some say the updated software fixes it. Some say it doesn't. I know when Jim Conforti installed the Shark on my ECU and updated to latest BMW software...it did not fix the dip.

Many......myself included....are leaning toward the DISA vlave as being the issue with the dip.

10-4
:scratchinghead

[Rovert]

It seems like this topic has been beaten over the head for years. Isn't the 4K dip mechanical and to do with the VANOS switching over? I've still never seen or felt the dip from any car.....is it in your minds? LOL

[danewilson77]

No....I don't think it's vanos related. If you've read that...please provide the link. Thanks

Rome wasn't built in a day....hehe

[Meric]

It seems like this topic has been beaten over the head for years. Isn't the 4K dip mechanical and to do with the VANOS switching over? I've still never seen or felt the dip from any car.....is it in your minds? LOL

Yea I never felt the dip. Yet this is my second e46..

[Nivo]

Yea I never felt the dip. Yet this is my second e46..
I feel it slightly as a hesitation then pulls hard up top.

You can see mine here:
3823

[ranger]

I have a very definite dip at 3500 rpm at load - EVERY DAY! My commute has a merge on the interstate where I am at the bottom of the hill - as I accelerate up the hill under load to merge - I get a dip at 3500 EVERY DAY. New plugs, gas filters, other maintenance done. I would love to have an affordable fix.

[aurelius]

Yea I never felt the dip. Yet this is my second e46..

Only affects those with manual transmission.


Many......myself included....are leaning toward the DISA vlave as being the issue with the dip.

At least initially, BMW thought so too and they were replacing that part as part of the solution.

But as of 2005, their solution is reprogramming. CLICK HERE (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17676561/BMW%20docs/SIB%2012%2017%2005%20%284k%20RPM%20power%20dip-DISA%20valve%29.pdf) to see the latest Service Information Bulletin on this topic.

What I wonder is if the updated DISA design alone (11617544805) would solve the problem without all the hassle of sending the DME off to the "Engineering Dept."

Worth noting for those who have not read about these issues ad nauseam: this symptom is not seen on all M54 motors and is totally separate from the 2800 RPM hesitation, which can be addressed at a dealer or indie shop with the right equipment (autologic). Latest software versions in autologic screen shot below apply to 3.0L M54 motor with the ZHP cams and manual transmission. I do not know if these version numbers apply to all M54 B30 motors but hooking up to autologic or dealership service computer will tell you if yours needs updating.

FWIW, I can testify switching from BMW 5W-30 to OW-40 motor oil will noticeably reduce the 2800 RPM hesitation. Even more so with high-end oil. I was not expecting that but it was noticeable when I switched to Mobil 1 OW-40 and then more so with a switch to Lubro Moly OW-40.

This screen shot was taken April 10, 2012:

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l584/aurelius3/Random%20BMW%20Pics/DMEversion12-04-10.jpg

[ranger]

I will add that my 2005 6MT ZHP seems to specifcally have the dip at 3500 rpm, under heavy load (going uphill under acceleration) and in 3rd gear.

[aurelius]

I will add that my 2005 6MT ZHP seems to specifcally have the dip at 3500 rpm, under heavy load (going uphill under acceleration) and in 3rd gear.

The symptom described in the SIB linked above specifies 4k RPM, as do the dyno charts on this topic. But if you're game to do so, pull off your DISA and if it's not the newer part number listed above, replace it with a new one and see if that does the trick by itself. Let us know. I priced it just now and lowest I saw was $176 HERE (http://www.bmwmercedesparts.com). FYI those guys are a little slow with delivery but they won't shaft you on shipping charges.

[danewilson77]

Only affects those with manual transmission.



At least initially, BMW thought so too and they were replacing that part as part of the solution.

But as of 2005, their solution is reprogramming. CLICK HERE (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17676561/BMW%20docs/SIB%2012%2017%2005%20%284k%20RPM%20power%20dip-DISA%20valve%29.pdf) to see the latest Service Information Bulletin on this topic.

What I wonder is if the updated DISA design alone (11617544805) would solve the problem without all the hassle of sending the DME off to the "Engineering Dept."

Worth noting for those who have not read about these issues ad nauseam: this symptom is not seen on all M54 motors and is totally separate from the 2800 RPM hesitation, which can be addressed at a dealer or indie shop with the right equipment (autologic). Latest software versions in autologic screen shot below. Applies to man-trans M54 motor with the ZHP cams. I do not know if these version numbers apply to all M54 motors but hooking up to autologic or dealership service computer will tell you if yours needs updating.

FWIW, I can testify switching from BMW 5W-30 to OW-40 motor oil will noticeably reduce the 2800 RPM hesitation. Even more so with high-end oil. I was not expecting that but it was noticeable when I switched to Mobil 1 OW-40 and then more so with a switch to Lubro Moly OW-40.

This screen shot was taken April 10, 2012:

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l584/aurelius3/Random%20BMW%20Pics/DMEversion12-04-10.jpg

Aurelius, will you please post this info in the below thread as well? Thanks. Good info.

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?6885-Quiet-Moments.....with-Jim-Conforti-Addressal-of-the-4k-Power-Dip

Sent from SIGFest 2012, via TTv1.5.4

[wsmeyer]

This has been my experience as well. When my car was new it had a distinct stumble at 4K. It was not just a dip in the power band, you could feel the engine stumble and recover as if gas or spark was being cut off. The NJ DME update solved the problem but there still is an occasional power dip at 4K rpm. It is not the same at all, this one the engine does not stumble or anything there is just a brief dip in power. It also appears to be effected by weather, gas quality, and rate of acceleration. It seems to do it more often when it's warm outside and it seems to do it te least often with Chevron Super Unleaded.


William.

Since my last post I've Sharked my car and it simply runs smoother and not once have I felt any sort of 4k dip. I hope someone has the opportunity to drive multiple cars with the 4k dip. The dips I was experiencing pre and post DME update felt completely different and I believe are completely different issues.

William.

[danewilson77]

How long has it been Sharked?

[wsmeyer]

How long has it been Sharked?


Two months.

[danewilson77]

ok. thanks

[zhp43867]

FWIW the dip is much more noticeable on my 04/04 built coupe than my 05/04 built sedan, which coincidentally is the same month they switched over to the new P/N DISA.

[Johnmadd]

2800........

[Nivo]

ok having driven both ZHPs back to back. coupe has the 4k rpm dip that I can feel and see on the dyno. the sedan I can't feel it.

[zhp43867]

ok having driven both ZHPs back to back. coupe has the 4k rpm dip that I can feel and see on the dyno. the sedan I can't feel it.

Production dates?

[Nivo]

Production dates?

Coupe: 6/2004
Sedan: 1/2005

[aurelius]

6/03 sedan: symptom-free, original DISA, running Chevron 93.

Edit: symptom-free re the 3500-4k RPM issue. But I do have a bit of the 2800 RPM hesitation. Expect it'll disappear when I get the DME updated, as has been the case with others.

[Nivo]

6/03 sedan: symptom-free, original DISA, running Chevron 93.

Edit: symptom-free re the 3500-4k RPM issue. But I do have a bit of the 2800 RPM hesitation. Expect it'll disappear when I get the DME updated, as has been the case with others.

My car when I first got it did not have the 2800 rpm hesitation/chug chug feel to it, It had developed later on...:scratchinghead

[95m3ltw]

Anyone that has the updated software, do you have a version number or can you post a picture of your DME (it will have the updated version on a sticker)? Amazing at the number of posts/threads about this subject but very little actual version numbers etc.

[terraphantm]

7561520

[Hornung418]

7561520

I used 7561522...what do you think about that, Terra?

Sent from my GS3.

[Tnhl1989]

I did it the other day but it's the same sw that was flash on my car back in 08

[alexandre]

I used 7565122...what do you think about that, Terra?

Sent from my GS3.

I installed 7561520 too. However I looked that up, you have a typo (it's 7561522), but there even seems to be another one, 7562334. Here: http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=EV53&mospid=47725&btnr=12_1212

Terra do you have more info on this ?

[Hornung418]

Yeah thats a typo. Thanks Alex.

Sent from my GS3.

[wsmeyer]

I installed 7561520 too. However I looked that up, you have a typo (it's 7561522), but there even seems to be another one, 7562334. Here: http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=EV53&mospid=47725&btnr=12_1212

Terra do you have more info on this ?

Mine was re-programmed by BMW after 9/2005. How would I know which version it was? Could I dump it and give it to you guys?

[Hornung418]

Mine was re-programmed by BMW after 9/2005. How would I know which version it was? Could I dump it and give it to you guys?

Power up INPA and click F2 for your identification and it should give you the software part number.

Sent from my GS3.

[wsmeyer]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/23/nymepave.jpg

Mine's not listed on realoem. Must be extra special

[KevinC]

Guys, this issue is driving me crazy. I've got the 4k RPM DISA stutter in a big way. Bought car at 54k miles 2 years ago, at 71k now. Did a ton of preventative maintenance in the first few months of ownership, including rebuilt VANOS from Dr VANOS, and once I discovered I had the stutter, I also upgraded the DISA to the GAS DISA Gold. No change in drivability.

Recently, my indy reflashed it for me.. we both thought this would cure it, but no luck. It had a dealer reflash in '06 for an emissions recall, but that didn't cure it. I've done a ton of digging on the web, and read some conflicting info.. such as the DME still has to go to HQ in NJ on a PUMA case to be reflashed to fix this, others saying that info was obsolete long ago and the current firmware the dealers have now includes whatever this fix was. I've read that the NJ fix was simply keeping the DISA flap open all the time (or was that closed all the time??), read elsewhere something different.

All I know for sure is I have the issue, and REALLY would like to find a solution to get rid of it permanently. If someone has the magic bullet to finally cure this once and for all, I'm all ears.

[wsmeyer]

I feel for you, that stupid 4k stutter really puts a damper on what otherwise is beautifully smooth power band. I wish I could tell you exactly what the fix is but I can only add from my experience. Mine was fixed early 2007 under warranty and the DME was sent to NJ by the dealer. I also just learned today (see above) that my DME version doesn't coincide with any listed in RealOEM, but I'm not sure if that means anything.

[QC_ZHP]

Is the 4k dip 100% caused by DISA?

[KevinC]

Is the 4k dip 100% caused by DISA?

From what I've read, the problem is that turbulence in the intake, caused by the DISA operation, is misinterpreted as engine knock, and the DME retards timing, resulting in the stutter. The "NJ fix" did something specific to address this.

[QC_ZHP]

Interesting. I've been following a thread on e46f of a guy who swapped an M50 manifold which in turn deleted the DISA. From his dyno graph, although it starts at 3k, it doesn't seem like scrapping DISA causes as much of a torque loss as I would've assumed. Plus, the gains are impressive. He also claims to have around 8 more hp throughout the range to free up once he times the cams correctly. That probably explains the late dip in power as well.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=554550&d=1397954973

Thread: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1030015&page=2

Its caught my attention, but I'm still not sold on deleting DISA, although the power dip is almost unbearable to me. As wsmeyer said, it kills an otherwise great powerband.

[terraphantm]

I installed 7561520 too. However I looked that up, you have a typo (it's 7561522), but there even seems to be another one, 7562334. Here: http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=EV53&mospid=47725&btnr=12_1212

Terra do you have more info on this ?

You know, I'm not really sure. I was just going by what WinKFP said was the last update in the update chain for my software version. It treated 7551522 as a separate variant and I never even noticed 7562334. Looks like the different build dates are being given distinct software versions.

I'll try looking at the tunes themselves for differences.

[danewilson77]

Guys, this issue is driving me crazy. I've got the 4k RPM DISA stutter in a big way. Bought car at 54k miles 2 years ago, at 71k now. Did a ton of preventative maintenance in the first few months of ownership, including rebuilt VANOS from Dr VANOS, and once I discovered I had the stutter, I also upgraded the DISA to the GAS DISA Gold. No change in drivability.

Recently, my indy reflashed it for me.. we both thought this would cure it, but no luck. It had a dealer reflash in '06 for an emissions recall, but that didn't cure it. I've done a ton of digging on the web, and read some conflicting info.. such as the DME still has to go to HQ in NJ on a PUMA case to be reflashed to fix this, others saying that info was obsolete long ago and the current firmware the dealers have now includes whatever this fix was. I've read that the NJ fix was simply keeping the DISA flap open all the time (or was that closed all the time??), read elsewhere something different.

All I know for sure is I have the issue, and REALLY would like to find a solution to get rid of it permanently. If someone has the magic bullet to finally cure this once and for all, I'm all ears.

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?6885-Quiet-Moments.....with-Jim-Conforti-Addressal-of-the-4k-Power-Dip&highlight=conforti

[wsmeyer]

So now I'm curious if my DISA valve is still active.

Any idea how to determine?

[Hornung418]

In INPA go to your digital values and check the readout of the running engine. Rev it passed 4100rpm and see if your DISA signal changes.

[wsmeyer]

In INPA go to your digital values and check the readout of the running engine. Rev it passed 4100rpm and see if your DISA signal changes.

Nothing in there labeled DISA

[Hornung418]

Hmm interesting. There is a way to see it in one of the menus.

Sent from my GS3.

[TigerTater]

How does the software update alter a tuned DME? It would erase it correct? Or is an update not needed if it's tuned? Also what is the date of the last update, and how would one see what version they have? What kinds of things change when they update it? Sorry for all the questions


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hornung418]

If you have a tune, you will need to flash back to stock and then flash the updated tune to the DME. Then flash the Tune back on.

Sent from my GS3.

[Hornung418]

So as far as 7651383 goes I don't have it in the system files. And it doesn't seem to be under the "Performance Package" subtitle either. So I would probably not try to flash it. However, I am flashed to 7651522 and it looks as though it's the latest p/n under ZHP sedans.

But for an August Coupe, the P/Ns are as follows:
For vehicles with S767A - 7652334 (Manual Transmission)
For vehicles with S767A & S205A - 7652336 (Automatic Transmission)

Does anyone have any speculation between part numbers and the chassis style??

It's an engine...shouldn't make any difference between coupe, sedan or cabrio.

I want to try 7652334...Tell me why I shouldn't.

[Hornung418]

Went ahead with 7652334. Feels good with no errors. Will keep you all in mind with the coming week.

Sent from my GS3.

[Avetiso]

Went ahead with 7652334. Feels good with no errors. Will keep you all in mind with the coming week.

Sent from my GS3.

Thanks for trying that. I will go with that one.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

[Hornung418]

When I pulled out of the drive and accelerated in 1st to 6.8k it felt pretty smooth on the but dyno.

[Avetiso]

When I pulled out of the drive and accelerated in 1st to 6.8k it felt pretty smooth on the but dyno.

My first gear jerks so bad. I hate it.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

[alexandre]

So as far as 7651383 goes I don't have it in the system files. And it doesn't seem to be under the "Performance Package" subtitle either. So I would probably not try to flash it. However, I am flashed to 7651522 and it looks as though it's the latest p/n under ZHP sedans.

But for an August Coupe, the P/Ns are as follows:
For vehicles with S767A - 7652334 (Manual Transmission)
For vehicles with S767A & S205A - 7652336 (Automatic Transmission)

Does anyone have any speculation between part numbers and the chassis style??

It's an engine...shouldn't make any difference between coupe, sedan or cabrio.

I want to try 7652334...Tell me why I shouldn't.

Could be simply that 2006 cars got an updated DME module. Might try it out myself even if I have no issues :shifty

[terraphantm]

Could be simply that 2006 cars got an updated DME module. Might try it out myself even if I have no issues :shifty

They're all MS45.1

My guess is it comes down to emissions. I think there was a transition from ULEV I -> ULEV II somewhere along the line.

[Avetiso]

I'm about to flash. 2003 ZHP sedan. I'm only getting 7561520. Not getting the -22 variant. Whatever. Flashing anyway.

[Washburn]

OK. I just read this whole thread, albeit quickly.

Did SMOLCK ever answer the question about which SPECIFIC version of DME SW his indy place installed?
or did I miss it?

-Do we have a final consensus on which specific SW should be installed? (for Auto trans)
-Can an indie place hook the car up and will AUTOMAGICALLY bring up/suggest the newest/correct version to install? (I hope so, as TELLING them which SW version to install scares me - because what if it's the wrong one?)

[Avetiso]

OK. I just read this whole thread, albeit quickly.

Did SMOLCK ever answer the question about which SPECIFIC version of DME SW his indy place installed?
or did I miss it?

-Do we have a final consensus on which specific SW should be installed? (for Auto trans)
-Can an indie place hook the car up and will AUTOMAGICALLY bring up/suggest the newest/correct version to install? (I hope so, as TELLING them which SW version to install scares me - because what if it's the wrong one?)

Essentially that's what winkfp does. Based on your Vin and the v41 daten files it finds the correct firmware to flash to your DME.

An indy can do it.

There is a debate about which software is the FINAL one, but any of the most recent versions should be fine and will take care of any issues you might have with stuttering.

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[Washburn]

Thanks - I just asked my indie place on their FB page.
Will see what they say.

[IMOLAROT]

Please, help me my friends, i have removed catalytic converters and the service engine light is on now... How can i disable rear 2 O2 sensors? Is there anywhere soft for MS45 tu upgrade?

[Hornung418]

Please, help me my friends, i have removed catalytic converters and the service engine light is on now... How can i disable rear 2 O2 sensors? Is there anywhere soft for MS45 tu upgrade?

No.

Sent from my GS3.

[TigerTater]

No.

Sent from my GS3.

Lol. There is a work around involving an Lc2 wideband controller. I will posting a dyi sometime soon.


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[Hornung418]

Lol. There is a work around involving an Lc2 wideband controller. I will posting a dyi sometime soon.


Sent from my iPhone 13

Yes. Waiting for that :-)

Sent from my GS3.

[derbo]

SOOOOOOO who has access to a GT1?


http://i.imgur.com/9JyfZSM.png

There is an option to show the variable intake position in DIS. However I am uncertain which mode is which. I believe short pipe is the mid-high range and I can see even on idle my car is on the short pipe and does not change. Anyone like to confirm?

[SoCalZman]

Is that your GT1? If so, if no one else comes forward you can put it on my car since I don't have the update.

[derbo]

Yes that's mine. We will have to arrange a time to do it if no one else wants to try haha.

[SoCalZman]

Yes that's mine. We will have to arrange a time to do it if no one else wants to try haha.

no problem. FYI theres a BMW cars and coffee in the Marina tomorrow morning. I will be there.

[derbo]

i wont be. got some yard work to do.

[derbo]

SOOOOOOO who has access to a GT1?


http://i.imgur.com/9JyfZSMl.png

There is an option to show the variable intake position in DIS. However I am uncertain which mode is which. I believe short pipe is the mid-high range and I can see even on idle my car is on the short pipe and does not change. Anyone like to confirm?



Minor update on the hunt on what the DME software does:

Antone was free this evening so he drove by so we could analyze the display readings on his ZHP.

http://i.imgur.com/gY64v4ll.png



Derek's ZHP: DME PUMA update performed : idle : short pipe -> 4000rpm rev : short pipe
Antone's ZHP: Factory DME software : idle : long pipe -> 4000rpm rev : short pipe

Notes:
It appears my DISA valve is stuck open and doesn't even close during idle. So far these results show that the DME update may have sacrificed the DISA valve long pipes for low end torque to eliminate the 4K dip many people are complaining about.


My current conclusion with our limited data is that the DISA valve was intentionally disabled and left open to eliminate the "dip" feel. With no change in intake manifold runners, the dip would not nonexistant at the cost of low-end torque. I personally don't feel the difference in loss of torque and find it adequate for zipping around town regardless of the long or short intake runners.

It does make my GAS DISA upgrade feel like a waste of money though. :facepalm

At this point, the next step is to monitor the DISA valve during normal driving with actual load, not just idling. I believe Antone's ZHP will work just like it did during idle. My ZHP will need further monitoring to log some data points to see if the DISA is indeed intentionally left open. DISA Valve tests show my DISA functions properly during tests and I swapped DISAs years ago with a BMW Tech's ZHP to confirm my DISA did operate correct. Few more data points and I think I can confirm they killed my DISA!

Thanks to Antone for taking the time to take a look at his car's DISA. We will have to hang out a little longer next time!

[Hornung418]

It does make my GAS DISA upgrade feel like a waste of money though. :facepalm

Sell your upgraded unit. Machine block off panel or buy broken disa and use a new gasket.

Sent from my GS3.

[derbo]

Sell your upgraded unit. Machine block off panel or buy broken disa and use a new gasket.

Sent from my GS3.

That is most likely what I am planning to do if the DISA is still open during normal driving conditions. I may just swap with my cousin's DISA.

[Washburn]

I know that this has been asked before, and I am still not 100% sure:
Soon, I will be taking my 2005 ZHP (AUTO) coupe to my indie BMW shop for some maintenance, and they have told me they have the ability to flash/update the DME. What I don't know is if they have what's supposed to be the newest version.

If possible, I'd like to "give" them the version I need/want, so they can do it correctly. (or tell them not to flash, if the latest they have is NOT the latest from BMW)

Any idea on which version I should suggest?
Thanks I.A.

[johnrando]

Not sure, but probably unlikely your DME needs an upgrade (1) being an '05 and (2) being auto. Manuals needed it for the 4K dip.

[Washburn]

Thanks JR.
Just out of curiosity, I will see what comes up when they plug the car into their system. (and post if I get the info). I might see if they can code some stuff, too - the probability of finding a mafia fam member close to me in near future (or within drivable distance) seems slim, and i might as well bite the bullet and pay for it. (with my horrible work schedule it's also hard to drive to meet ups)

As for the DME update being only for manuals, I think you're right. I've only seen a handful of posts on various forums where some people claimed that it also "fixes" some things in auto ZHPs. (perhaps they were confusing this flash with the other DME flash that cures the bogus O2 sensor codes, which I never had, and shouldn't, i guess, as it's a 2005)

I will report any findings.

[wsmeyer]

Keep in mind that flashing the DME also deletes the adaptation settings so a lot of the purported "fixes" attributed to a DME update are often just because the car feels different.

[Washburn]

But certain changes that are technical / mechanical do take place, right ?


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[RITmusic2k]

When I did my DME upgrade there was no hardware change - just a firmware flash.

[Washburn]

Right- I didn't word my reply very well.
What I meant was that a reflash might be FELT only in the way car drives/feels, etc BUT it does change/fix something that wasn't optimal in its operation, and that the benefit is not limited to the "feel".

[wsmeyer]

Right- I didn't word my reply very well.
What I meant was that a reflash might be FELT only in the way car drives/feels, etc BUT it does change/fix something that wasn't optimal in its operation, and that the benefit is not limited to the "feel".

It is an update but whether those updates result in power benefits or not is unknown. What I was saying though is that people get their DME updated and the process resets the adaptations so the car immediately feels different:

Since they just updated the DME, different is interpreted as better and attributed to the update.

[Washburn]

I get you.
No, I am not seeking any power / "car is better"-feelings, etc.
I merely wanted to make sure i have the latest version that I am supposed to have, in the sense that if it's not the latest, it's better to get it updated as a preventative measure / just to be up to date, and have whatever TRUE benefits the update is supposed to provide, regardless of me being able to "feel" it..

[terraphantm]

I get you.
No, I am not seeking any power / "car is better"-feelings, etc.
I merely wanted to make sure i have the latest version that I am supposed to have, in the sense that if it's not the latest, it's better to get it updated as a preventative measure / just to be up to date, and have whatever TRUE benefits the update is supposed to provide, regardless of me being able to "feel" it..

To my knowledge, none of the software updates broke anything, so you may as well update, especially if you can diy it rather than spending $150 or whatever dealers charge. I do know some bugs were fixed over the updated. 2800 rpm stutter was the most noticeable to me