ZHP Auto or regular 330i

[potentialbuyer]

Hello, newbie here and as my handle implies I'm considering buying a ZHP. Now, I am a driving enthusiast and I really want a manual trans BUT I commute 65 miles a day and traffic isn't always bad but sometimes its stop and go. So because of that I'm leaning towards an auto.

Anyway, I'm curious to hear thoughts & opinions from others on the fun factor of the auto zhp. Or from someone who might commute in a manual. I know this is highly relative but I guess I'm just looking for opinions that might sway me. Are the auto's still really fun cars to drive? And, if I'm gunna go auto, maybe I should just get a regular 330i...? I love the looks of the ZHP but I'm not convinced that the power difference would even be noticeable, or maybe it is...?

-Chris

[stephenkirsh]

I think there's a recent thread about this somewhere.

Bottom line was that lots of us have an auto, myself included. We all like it, and it all works just fine.

I actually track/autocross my car and shift manually, so the tranny works great for all conditions for how old it is.

The auto zhp is faster than a normal 330. The 10 extra hp helps a bit, but it's the rear differential that does it (3.64 in the zhp vs the 3.46 in all other auto e46s).

[johnrando]

Or a "regular" 330i? An auto is a regular 330i, so is a manual. (Just giving you a hard time). Welcome to the forum. Please introduce yourself in our new members section.

To me, manuals are more fun to drive, but living with an AUTO in LA traffic made more sense, as well as it lets my wife be able to drive it if necessary. I added paddle shifts and DINAN STEP s/w to enhance the AUTO experience, but it's not the same. Add a Sprint Booster (or Pedal Box) for quicker throttle response and performance wise it's not a dramatic difference, but manuals are faster/lighter than AUTOs.

[webster]

i have a manual and commute in houston traffic (not LA but close). i don't mind it one bit. after a while you don't even think about it. and honestly i find that bmw manuals are easier to drive in traffic than most autos. you can feather the clutch and creep at <5 mph without having to touch any pedals. whereas in an auto you're constantly on and off the brakes.

[KevinC]

Agree with Webster. If you're stick-inclined, I'd suggest going that route, despite having a commute - ZHPs are quite traffic-friendly, IMHO. Light clutch, light shifter, smooth engagement, etc. Of course then my comparison is my other car, a Z4MC, which has a heavy-as-hell clutch, notchy shifter, and on/off brakes. So keep that in context.

[ELCID86]

Agree with Webster. If you're stick-inclined, I'd suggest going that route, despite having a commute - ZHPs are quite traffic-friendly, IMHO. Light clutch, light shifter, smooth engagement, etc. Of course then my comparison is my other car, a Z4MC, which has a heavy-as-hell clutch, notchy shifter, and on/off brakes. So keep that in context.

+1 can someone link that other recent post


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[potentialbuyer]

Sounds like either way its a win-win. Glad to hear a few votes for manual and that its not too bad in traffic. I used to have a Ford Ranger 4.0L 5spd when I was living in L.A. - truck was actually a blast to drive but had such a stiff clutch, it sucked horribly in traffic. Now I live in Murrieta and commute into North San Diego County and traffic is inconsistent (which is kinda nice, some days its 80mph the whole way). But also, I do have an alternate route which bypasses the freeway and install cuts through a rural area called De Luz, its longer & very windy so it takes about the same time as when traffic its bad BUT its an awesome drive which would be absolutely orgasmic in a ZHP manual. Only problem now is theres only a couple of nice ones in my area and both are AUTO.

The other advantage of going with a regular 330 is that there are a lot more out there and you can be more picky finding one. For example, I added "new transmission" into my CL search and found a few that recently had new trans.

[WOLFN8TR]

Auto ZHP owner checking in. As johnrando stated above doing a few mods such as a Sprint Booster makes a noticeable difference on a Step. I bought my ZHP to commute to work also and it's really nice having an Auto in traffic. The tranny shifts perfect and having the option to shift manually also is a nice feature. I would definitely find a ZHP over a non ZHP.

[ELCID86]

You can always ad an SMG wheel! 13821


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[NoVAphotog]

You can always ad an SMG wheel! 13821


+1 I drove that car as my first ZHP experience and liked it alot! But, I still wanted/found a manual and have to 2nd the points about it being fine in traffic...DC traffic at that!

[RITmusic2k]

One I'm a former SoCal resident chiming in on the relative ease and comfort of commuting with a manual ZHP. As said above, the car is quite happy to no-gas launch and creep along in the stop-and-go congestion... I find it more engaging to actually have something to do with my hands and feet while waiting for traffic to open up.

It does come down to personal preference, but if you're approaching it from the perspective of "enduring a manual in traffic for the sake of enjoying it elsewhere", then I'll say that in the ZHP, there's very little to endure compared to very much to enjoy :)

[Johal E32]

Not a zhp, but a 323 E46 owner here. I have a 5speed and deal with bay area traffic a lot and I am very happy with my decision. I don't find the car hard to drive at all.

[bimmeryota]

Living with a 5speed 330 and commuting with it since 2006, I wouldn't get a auto. But I'm that aforementioned "stick inclined" person and like the involvement and it keeps my attention. I'm sure you'll love your zhp regardless.

[mbeckel]

I own two cars equipped with a manual transmission in the Houston area and drive 55 miles round trip everyday. I wouldn't have it any other way! If I were you, I'd get a zhp 6 speed

Sent from in the bushes

[Avetiso]

I've only been bothered by my manual once because of traffic. I was on an on ramp and traffic was heavy, moving but not fast enough to remain in first, so I had to keep reengaging gear, which gets annoying when you have to do it 30 or 40 times.

Other than that... Easy.

"Arnold smoking a cigar in the Red Square; your argument is invalid." -Galaxy S5

[BavarianZHP]

I've only been bothered by my manual once because of traffic. I was on an on ramp and traffic was heavy, moving but not fast enough to remain in first, so I had to keep reengaging gear, which gets annoying when you have to do it 30 or 40 times.

Other than that... Easy.

"Arnold smoking a cigar in the Red Square; your argument is invalid." -Galaxy S5

Maybe I'm an ass, but in situations like that I just apply the brakes and let the ones in front go 5 car lengths before I creep along to catch up - kinda like those truck drivers.

[stephenkirsh]

Pft, I do that in my auto lol. Drives me nuts when people get in a hurry to go no where.

[gmurphy]

Pft, I do that in my auto lol. Drives me nuts when people get in a hurry to go no where.

Like creeping at stop lights! That bugs me so much.


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[Rovert]

If you have even one doubt in your mind about either transmission, hold your ground and wait. It'll come and you will not regret the extra wait. Good things come to those who wait. I am a testament to that on more occasions than I can even count.

A 325/328/330 clutch is firm enough to feel it to know how the vehicle is reacting but light enough to work in traffic. When you install a clutch stop you can even modulate it with the heal on the ground which makes it easier when you need to fine tune your movement.

[TheFinanceGuy]

I struggle with this same concept. I LOVE driving a manual transmission. I find there to be nothing wrong with an auto, just not quite the same enjoyment factor. I purchased my current E39 540i as an auto, because we needed two cars that my wife could drive also.
She is okay with a clutch, but if you don't drive it everyday, you will never be great at it.

With a recent scare the other day, I am reminded how important it is for my wife to be able to drive either of our cars. I wear contact lenses, as I have pretty bad eyesight. Well, the other day, my daughter smacked/poked/brushed my eye before I could blink- and bye-bye contact lens. Since we were at a playground/park area, we stayed a bit longer (as it was 1 hour from the house). There was NO way I could drive back with one contact lens. THEN, a stroke of luck- it was in the back/upper part of my eyelid. It re-appeared at the final restroom break on the way to the car. All was well, but it did remind me why we bought two automatic transmissions.

Now- she needs to practice so I can get rid of this blasted auto!


-- Back to the point --
Do you have any friends with MT cars? Ask to borrow for a week. You will know quickly if you like it or not. I actually hate traffic- an AT vs MT - it doesn't matter.

[pfr]

I also decided to get auto for traffic and SO considerations. All I can say that there is a big difference between the "regular" and ZHP auto behaviour. (coupes in my case) It is worth waiting for.

- Peter

[terraphantm]

I almost prefer stick in traffic. If you time it right, you almost never have to touch the gas, brake, or clutch. Only time it really bothers me is if I'm stuck in traffic on an uphill incline. The ZHP manual is also one of the easiest cars I've driven -- much more forgiving than the M3

[sillieidiot]

i'd go with a manual. i exactly how many miles you do and i think it's fine. even stop/go traffic is fine. you don't need to stick with just a zhp, just get a regular 330. the zhp doesn't command that much performance wise. most of the stuff is cosmetic.

[johnrando]

it's about the whole package, not just 'performance wise'. if 'cosmetics' didn't matter you wouldn't have made those very nice cosmetic changes to your car.

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[sillieidiot]

yeah but realistically speaking, you'd just compare the performance. because all the cosmetic stuff, you could just retrofit later on the regular 330 and you're good. it would give you a wider base of cars to choose from. not to mention you'd save more money in the end, since most zhps are listed way higher than normal. even if you were to go back and retrofit the cosmetic parts, it would still be cheaper than buying a zhp in the first place.

[ELCID86]

yeah but realistically speaking, you'd just compare the performance. because all the cosmetic stuff, you could just retrofit later on the regular 330 and you're good. it would give you a wider base of cars to choose from. not to mention you'd save more money in the end, since most zhps are listed way higher than normal. even if you were to go back and retrofit the cosmetic parts, it would still be cheaper than buying a zhp in the first place.

Good advice. The only reason we got rid of the '02 330Ci was it always felt like it needed another (6th) gear and my long-legged son wanted two more doors to accommodate his long-legged friends.


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[Sockethead]

I didn't get a chance to read this whole thread as I am babysitting my twins and they keep trying to steal myiPad

I have a manual ZHP. I'm in IT and drove from site to site, sometimes driving close to two hundred miles day. A lot of it was heavy traffic. Not once have I thought " I should of gotten an auto." The driving gets boring but the manual trans sure does make it fun. Helps me stay alert when driving after I had to pull an all nighter fixing F'd up servers.
We have an F30 with an 8speed auto that I drove all winter and it too got boing. I just like the 3rd pedal it's so much fun... Even after 38 years of driving!

[johnrando]

yeah but realistically speaking, you'd just compare the performance. because all the cosmetic stuff, you could just retrofit later on the regular 330 and you're good. it would give you a wider base of cars to choose from. not to mention you'd save more money in the end, since most zhps are listed way higher than normal. even if you were to go back and retrofit the cosmetic parts, it would still be cheaper than buying a zhp in the first place.

Nah, that's been long argued, but my view is it would be WAY more trouble and costly than it's worth to piece a 330 in to a ZHP.

[Hermes]

Nah, that's been long argued, but my view is it would be WAY more trouble and costly than it's worth to piece a 330 in to a ZHP.

This. Bumpers and rockers are an expensive part to begin with, control arms aren't too bad, wheels can be found cheap, but cams/tune, cube trim, and most importantly the damn window trim can cost a whole hell of a lot. The markup is significantly less than what it would cost to convert

Edit: and I am not assuming you would convert with Chinese rep parts, if you do that you might as well get one of these:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/19/yny2y8yg.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/19/emetamas.jpg

[Avetiso]

The only time it would make sense to buy a regular 330, IMHO, is an S54 swap. At that point the ZHP engine/tune/drivetrain is going out. At that point, it's mostly cosmetics except for a few suspension components that you'll probably be replacing either way.

[Hermes]

The only time it would make sense to buy a regular 330, IMHO, is an S54 swap. At that point the ZHP engine/tune/drivetrain is going out. At that point, it's mostly cosmetics except for a few suspension components that you'll probably be replacing either way.

The anodized gloss black window trim (originally designed for the M3 CSL) is a $1600 'cosmetic' part. A real conversion is very expensive

[Avetiso]

The window trim (originally designed for the M3 CSL) is a $1600 cosmetic part. A real conversion is very expensive
Yeah... but come on. Paint it. Wrap it. Or just leave it chrome. It's nothing worth really caring about to me, but others may feel differently.

[Hermes]

I do care. I like my cars maintained to the quality level they were designed for. I don't wrap, don't plastidip, etc.

There is a reason in my years of ownership you haven't seen me install a bunch of mods that I later took off, I like to do it right the first time. When I get around to coilovers I will be buying TC Kline Dual Adjustable, not just because I will get them for a discount but because they are the best available setup on the market

If you are of the opinion that the minor options that make a ZHP different from a stock E46 are not that big a deal then why do we own ZHP's? It's because as a package it is a great car and that's the reason why there is a premium vs a ZSP or even a stock 330

[Avetiso]

I'm not saying it's not worth it, just commenting on a situation where it might not be worth it to somebody.

Sheesh. Give it a break man.

[Hermes]

I'm not saying it's not worth it, just commenting on a situation where it might not be worth it to somebody.

Sheesh. Give it a break man.

Dario, I do understand what you're saying but this is 8 years after production has ended on E46s. The premium attached to ZHP vs other E46 is not that much. I'm merely trying to show that it is in no way worth it to convert a non ZHP into one even with paint, replica bumpers, used trim and wheels, etc.

I have played this game before with the E32 and E24 attempting to turn them into Highline option package cars when they were not. Basically it ends up being a waste of time and money since the ZHP was produced in more volume than E30 M3s... the only car I can see it being worth converting is an E46 touring. Sedan, coupe or vert are all available in significant quantities for not that much money. It makes no sense in my mind to buy a non-ZHP and attempt to convert it into one

[Avetiso]

Dario, I do understand what you're saying but this is 8 years after production has ended on E46s. The premium attached to ZHP vs other E46 is not that much. I'm merely trying to show that it is in no way worth it to convert a non ZHP into one even with paint, replica bumpers, used trim and wheels, etc.

I have played this game before with the E32 and E24 attempting to turn them into Highline option package cars when they were not, basically it ends up being a waste of time and money when the ZHP was produced in more volume than E30 M3s... the only car I can see it being worth converting is an E46 touring. Sedan, coupe or vert are all available in significant quantities for not that much money. It makes no sense in my mind to buy a non-ZHP and attempt to convert it into one
Yeah, I agree with you 100%. Perhaps we just had a bit of miscommunication. What I was trying to say that the only time I think it might not be worth buying a ZHP is if you are going to be swapping an M3 drivetrain over, because at the point, most of the things you are paying the premium for are going out the door except for some odd suspension components and pretty parts. All other times, buy the ZHP. Hell, buy the ZHP either way if price is no object, but it was just one scenario where I think it might be worth buying some part separately.

Anyways. It's cool. Just speaking slightly different languages. No offense I hope. But I'm pretty sure you HAVE plastidipped some stuff before... certain wheels that were a lively shade of green. :rofl

[Hermes]

Yeah, that makes sense. If the plan is to do a drivetrain swap then I agree you don't necessarily need a ZHP as your base. I was responding more towards the OP's original question of ZHP or regular 330.

I will admit I have plastidipped my spare set of wheels, but nothing else on my ZHP has ever seen the stuff. They were curbed as hell so the yellow helped to cover up the uglyness. Once I buy tires for the style 68's all five of my rear style 135's are being sent out for powdercoating (not yellow)

I even plastidipped the window trim on the 320 since it's all oxidized and pitted, but that only lasted 2 days until I decided I didn't like it. I will end up spending a lot on re-chrome for both the window trim and bumpers when I get around to painting the car. Chrome alone will probably cost me more than I paid for the whole car.

Basically, I don't like plastidip. It has a function as a temporary solution, but far too many people now use it as a permanent one and I don't agree with that.



My 2 cents...

[johnrando]

Cool. Movin on.

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[Crickett]

I’ll add my 6MT-commuting $0.02, but it’s no different than what the others have said: never once have I been annoyed/bothered/wished for an auto in my 7 years of owning and commuting in my 6MT ZHP.

That said, we did have an X5 for a few years and, while I’ve never driven an auto ZHP, I did manage to have some sporty fun with the X5’s Step in “DS”.

I say hold out for the 6MT!

[sillieidiot]

yeah maybe my experience was different, cause i set out to do that. but then along the way, instead of going for just a zhp, i modded the car to be better than the zhp while keeping some parts. the only parts that the zhp has over me is cams, diff, and the window trim. but i'm going to s/c, lsd, and get the window trim when my rubber dies so there goes that. I would say that converting the coupe is way more expensive than converting a sedan. there's a premium on all coupe parts. and since the OP was looking at sedans, hence the option. i've already went through the zhp conversion thing with my friends sedan. it was like 2500 in oem parts/paint that was it. and for the window trim, if you're just going for the look. just vinyl it and it looks the same.

[johnrando]

You're experience and mods are way above the avg driver and even beyond a std. "modder" though, so you're bending the curve. :)

[jorbon]

ditto to many- I commuted over the Bay Bridge-extraordinary traffic- every work day for 13 years (before coming to my senses). Most of that was in my heavily modded 5-speed manual) e36 (supercharger, super stiff suspension, heavy clutch and single-mass flywheel, etc etc), so I might be an outlier, but I'd say 6-speed manual zhp over most every car out there as an auto. It is (at least to us older folks) real driving. And, in a ZHP, with such a near-perfect manual trans and enough power, it'll all come very easy and you'll wonder why you considered an auto.

[terraphantm]

I do care. I like my cars maintained to the quality level they were designed for. I don't wrap, don't plastidip, etc.

There is a reason in my years of ownership you haven't seen me install a bunch of mods that I later took off, I like to do it right the first time. When I get around to coilovers I will be buying TC Kline Dual Adjustable, not just because I will get them for a discount but because they are the best available setup on the market

If you are of the opinion that the minor options that make a ZHP different from a stock E46 are not that big a deal then why do we own ZHP's? It's because as a package it is a great car and that's the reason why there is a premium vs a ZSP or even a stock 330

TC DAs are good, but there's always something better on the market. Ohlins, Motons, JRZ, etc.

I agree that the ZHP conversion can be expensive if you want to do it 100% (unless you find a wrecked car for the more obscure bits), but it's certainly possible. Nowhere near as difficult as converting an M3 to a CSL for example

[sillieidiot]

You're experience and mods are way above the avg driver and even beyond a std. "modder" though, so you're bending the curve. :)

yeah i guess that's true. i've been trying to read all the projects for coupes listed on here. trying to look for new ideas. but there's not much. a lot of the stuff is already on my to do list and everything else i've done. on e46f, there's even less fl coupes to look at lol

[pilotnick1203]

I would have to say manual, I have an auto-tragic, it's gotten quite boring. And it's only 5 spd... Manual zhp is the way to go.


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